What if the State Series looked like this?

[rmk12175]

What if the state series went something like this:

2 weekend Individual State series: (Friday- Saturday) 2nd and 3rd Weekends of February

4 Super Sectionals in Division 1 each with 32 teams
4 Sectionals in D2 and D3 (25-26 teams each)
Top 4 Finishers in each weight class qualify, place 8 in each weight class at Sectionals, 6 at state

16-man state brackets for each division at state

Team State Super Sectional/ Sectional Tournament-4th Weekend of February (Friday-Saturday

Teams as listed above

Wrestle Prelim and Sweet 16 rounds on Friday night
Wrestle Quarterfinal, Semi, and Finals on Saturday
Top 2 teams advance to team state the first weekend in March

Thoughts??? This could be difficult to seed, especially perhaps at the team sectional level.  Would mean larger tournaments, but fewer number of events overall. Eliminates regional sites.

[Scramble_king]

I don't know about all that. Seems weird. I do think we should move to 16 for d2 and d3. Why not have the same format across all divisions? And then you let 4 more kids at each weight class into the state tournament. I don't think it would hurt anything, and for some kids it would make a world of difference. Also if we continue with the "seeding" as we did this year, a 16 person brackets seems to work much better.

[rmk12175]

I don't know about all that. Seems weird. I do think we should move to 16 for d2 and d3. Why not have the same format across all divisions? And then you let 4 more kids at each weight class into the state tournament. I don't think it would hurt anything, and for some kids it would make a world of difference. Also if we continue with the "seeding" as we did this year, a 16 person brackets seems to work much better.

I know there are just over 100 schools in D2 and 3, perhaps that's why its 12 and not 16. I'm thinking having everyone participate in the Team sectional might be too much, but my thought was that such a format would get rid of our current state of play where the regional team champion qualifies for team sectionals.  In this format all team state participants, qualify by placing 1st or 2nd in a dual team tournament.

[1Iota]

I love the idea of 4 super sectionals in D-1.  So many regionals have become an absolute joke and waste of time. 

[DocWrestling]

For the D2 and D3 Crowd,

I am in full support of double elimination and 16 man brackets for all divisions and bringing in the girls.  Can start earlier on Thursday also.

Presently D1 gets the 16 man brackets because they take the top 128 school enrollments and put in D1 and then split the remaining schools evenly over D2 and D3 which ended up being 103 schools.

As a D2 or D3 school are you willing to change the rules to get 16 man brackets?  Are you willing to split the 3 divisions evenly with 111 schools in each division?   That would push 17 D1 schools into D2 and thus push the lowest enrollment D2 schools into D3

[rmk12175]

I don't know about all that. Seems weird. I do think we should move to 16 for d2 and d3. Why not have the same format across all divisions? And then you let 4 more kids at each weight class into the state tournament. I don't think it would hurt anything, and for some kids it would make a world of difference. Also if we continue with the "seeding" as we did this year, a 16 person brackets seems to work much better.

I know there are just over 100 schools in D2 and 3, perhaps that's why its 12 and not 16. I'm thinking having everyone participate in the Team sectional might be too much, but my thought was that such a format would get rid of our current state of play where the regional team champion qualifies for team sectionals.  In this format all team state participants, qualify by placing 1st or 2nd in a dual team tournament.

Ok, I realize this suggestion is closer to our current reality, but what if team sectional qualification is determined by team placement at the individual Super Sectional or Sectional tournament except that teams will not earn bonus points for pins, tech falls, or majors.  Teams only earn team points for round advancement and wrestler place.  Top 4 or even top 8 in team points could advance to the team sectional.  Team Sectional could be a 1 day event with quarters, semis, and finals or just semis and finals.

[Handles II]

Considering the actual enrollment difference is the greatest between D1 schools (I can't remember the exact WIAA cut off, but about 750 students on the low end up to some schools with over 2200, dropping a few more D1 schools into D2 and D3 to more/less even them out might not be bad. They don't have to be exactly the same, but having

Some people hate to even dare to look at the comparisons, but for many years now, MN has been doing 8 Sectional tournaments (called Sections) in in each division. There are a few less schools in MN with wrestling (but more wrestlers per school). Each Sectional has about 11-14 teams, using 16 man brackets with each Sectional sending top 2 (16 kids) to state. 16 man brackets at State, 8 mats. Works out pretty nicely.

[MNbadger]

Yes Handles.
3 Divisions A, AA, and AAA
8 Sections for each division
Weekend I
Team Sections.  Some sections are one day, others are two days.  Team Section champs go to state giving you an eight team bracket at state.
Weekend II
Individual Sections.  Some sections are one day, others are two days.  Top two per weight go to state giving you a sixteen man bracket.
The following Thursday: Team Tournament, all divisions.
The following Friday/Saturday: Individual tournament, all divisions.

Considering the actual enrollment difference is the greatest between D1 schools (I can't remember the exact WIAA cut off, but about 750 students on the low end up to some schools with over 2200, dropping a few more D1 schools into D2 and D3 to more/less even them out might not be bad. They don't have to be exactly the same, but having

Some people hate to even dare to look at the comparisons, but for many years now, MN has been doing 8 Sectional tournaments (called Sections) in in each division. There are a few less schools in MN with wrestling (but more wrestlers per school). Each Sectional has about 11-14 teams, using 16 man brackets with each Sectional sending top 2 (16 kids) to state. 16 man brackets at State, 8 mats. Works out pretty nicely.

[drbrad]

For the D2 and D3 Crowd,

I am in full support of double elimination and 16 man brackets for all divisions and bringing in the girls.  Can start earlier on Thursday also.

Presently D1 gets the 16 man brackets because they take the top 128 school enrollments and put in D1 and then split the remaining schools evenly over D2 and D3 which ended up being 103 schools.

As a D2 or D3 school are you willing to change the rules to get 16 man brackets?  Are you willing to split the 3 divisions evenly with 111 schools in each division?   That would push 17 D1 schools into D2 and thus push the lowest enrollment D2 schools into D3

YES. Especially if same Reg/Sect/State. 6 team Regionals are the pits. The problem may be with basketball & other sports not wanting it. But I for one would be totally in favor of an even split (as I'm sure the smallest D1 schools would be too).

[hasbeen]

If we went to the same format for each division I actually think D1 should have the fewest schools since they have the most wrestlers per school on average. I'd put 31% in D1, 34% in D2 and 35% in D3(or something like that). That way you'd have more of a chance for somewhat similar numbers of individual wrestlers in each bracket. It doesn't matter what other sports do. Divisions are different for each sport based on the number of divisions and the schools/co-ops that offer that sport. Wrestling can do what is best for wrestling.

[rmk12175]

Does anyone know how often the WIAA assesses enrollments for the 3 divisions?  Illinois does it every two or 3 years I believe. Also, Does anyone know where I can find the enrollment minimums/maximums for each division?  I did some searching on the WIAA website, but couldn't find it.

[Numbers]

Does anyone know how often the WIAA assesses enrollments for the 3 divisions?  Illinois does it every two or 3 years I believe. Also, Does anyone know where I can find the enrollment minimums/maximums for each division?  I did some searching on the WIAA website, but couldn't find it.

Every year
Largest 128 D1
Rest split between D2 and D3

[wrastle63]

For the D2 and D3 Crowd,

I am in full support of double elimination and 16 man brackets for all divisions and bringing in the girls.  Can start earlier on Thursday also.

Presently D1 gets the 16 man brackets because they take the top 128 school enrollments and put in D1 and then split the remaining schools evenly over D2 and D3 which ended up being 103 schools.

As a D2 or D3 school are you willing to change the rules to get 16 man brackets?  Are you willing to split the 3 divisions evenly with 111 schools in each division?   That would push 17 D1 schools into D2 and thus push the lowest enrollment D2 schools into D3

Split it even!

[littleguy301]

Yes Handles.
3 Divisions A, AA, and AAA
8 Sections for each division
Weekend I
Team Sections.  Some sections are one day, others are two days.  Team Section champs go to state giving you an eight team bracket at state.
Weekend II
Individual Sections.  Some sections are one day, others are two days.  Top two per weight go to state giving you a sixteen man bracket.
The following Thursday: Team Tournament, all divisions.
The following Friday/Saturday: Individual tournament, all divisions.

Considering the actual enrollment difference is the greatest between D1 schools (I can't remember the exact WIAA cut off, but about 750 students on the low end up to some schools with over 2200, dropping a few more D1 schools into D2 and D3 to more/less even them out might not be bad. They don't have to be exactly the same, but having

Some people hate to even dare to look at the comparisons, but for many years now, MN has been doing 8 Sectional tournaments (called Sections) in in each division. There are a few less schools in MN with wrestling (but more wrestlers per school). Each Sectional has about 11-14 teams, using 16 man brackets with each Sectional sending top 2 (16 kids) to state. 16 man brackets at State, 8 mats. Works out pretty nicely.

Best and easiest way to do things.

Plus add in the seeding Minnesota does and crash, bang Wisconsin has a great state series!

[tigerking]

Yes Handles.
3 Divisions A, AA, and AAA
8 Sections for each division
Weekend I
Team Sections.  Some sections are one day, others are two days.  Team Section champs go to state giving you an eight team bracket at state.
Weekend II
Individual Sections.  Some sections are one day, others are two days.  Top two per weight go to state giving you a sixteen man bracket.
The following Thursday: Team Tournament, all divisions.
The following Friday/Saturday: Individual tournament, all divisions.

Considering the actual enrollment difference is the greatest between D1 schools (I can't remember the exact WIAA cut off, but about 750 students on the low end up to some schools with over 2200, dropping a few more D1 schools into D2 and D3 to more/less even them out might not be bad. They don't have to be exactly the same, but having

Some people hate to even dare to look at the comparisons, but for many years now, MN has been doing 8 Sectional tournaments (called Sections) in in each division. There are a few less schools in MN with wrestling (but more wrestlers per school). Each Sectional has about 11-14 teams, using 16 man brackets with each Sectional sending top 2 (16 kids) to state. 16 man brackets at State, 8 mats. Works out pretty nicely.

Best and easiest way to do things.

Plus add in the seeding Minnesota does and crash, bang Wisconsin has a great state series!

I really think this would solve some of Wisconsin's issues. The team state series would be fixed. You would not be wasting time with regionals anymore. There were quite a few this year that were not impressive. I think the best case would be 4 sectionals for all divisions and 4 qualifiers from each sectional go to state. Would have to run it similar to D2 NCAA Super Regionals where there is a wrestleback for 4th place.

I really think we need to take a look at the seeding again. I feel that sectional champions should be rewarded and they were not this year. How does Minnesota seed their tournament?