STATE BRACKETS OUT

[Chris Hansen]

So here is what we now know that nobody in the state knew prior.        The second seed criteria of "competition against common opponent" is not just did you lose to a guy that another in your state bracket beat.       It compares all mutual opponents that you both beat and the seed point goes to who beat him worse.   

Kole Marko has the easiest example to follow.

Kole teched Tommy Quinn from Cameron in their dual while Piersson Czaplinski pinned him at the John Roberts Scramble.
Kole teched Cole Pfeiffer of Cadott in their dual while Tyson Bogacz pinned Pfeiffer in the Cadott - Bondual dual. 

So Kole got just 9 of the 11 seed points.   Note that Kole got the seed point over #1 seed Cash Stewart.   But Stewart finished with 10 of the 11 seed points.   And even though Kole lost the seed point to Bogacz, Kole is seeded #3 and Bogacz is #4 because Bogacz only got 8 go 11 seed points.

I honestly doubt that there is a single kid in the state who wrestled this season knowing that how "bad" you beat somebody was where your state seed would come from.   If that one single sentence would have been told to coaches on December 1, there would be no argument right now. Here is that one single sentence:     You will be measured against your state opponents (seeded) based on how bad you demolish the average kids throughout the season.   

[Redeemer]

How about D3 113 we have a 3rd place finisher at sectionals with a first round bye.

Biba is not even close worthy of a 2 seed. horrible. and Rule vs Crapp 1st round, and they both beat Biba multiple times.

[wrastle63]

I don't understand how head to heads where not taken into account. Brackets where kids beat a kid at sectionals and then seeded below them.

[Chris Hansen]

I don't understand how head to heads where not taken into account. Brackets where kids beat a kid at sectionals and then seeded below them.

Read my example I posted just prior to this. Head to head is taken into account. But that only gives you one seed point against that one opponent. You're trying to get as many seed points as possible. Yes you got a seed point against that one guy you beat head to head but if he got more seed points than you overall, then he will be seeded higher than you.   

[WaupuWrestling]

1. The proposal to seed wrestlers using Track must have come from the WWCA, and not the WIAA.
2. Either there is a problem with the formula, or more likely not all the coaches completed the seeding criteria properly.

As much as we would all love to blame the WIAA for any mistakes in the bracket, I'm not so sure it is all their fault.

We live and learn.

[CLC FAN]

Chris Hansen: thanks for the explanation or I guess the attempt.  There's so many questions and I think if transparency was higher on trackwrestling's end it might alleviate some of the concerns.

The concerns we are hearing I guess to me fall into 2 categories

1) To some (many) it doesn't appear that WIAA and track are following their own stated criteria

2) The criteria are dumb

Your post helped a lot because it is awful hard to explain otherwise how an undefeated returning state champ would be behind anyone on head-to-head or common opponents, and he certainly isn't behind on any of the other criteria

[harley25]

JMO

I like seeing the state tournament but I believe the Sectional champs should get reward or sectionals is rather meaningless.

[Numbers]

1 - margin of victory over common opponents was not disclosed (insert Judge x here) (might not have accurate brackets printed in the program this year). 
2 - does margin of victory mean 7 points greater than 6 points or just major > decision?  Pin > tech?
3 - if one wrestler wrestles the common opponent twice, is it the best beat down victory that counts or how are the margins averaged?
4 - margin should not be used in my opinion.  It favors the wrestler who has a common opponent late in the season and knows what a margin of victory standard is.

All this being said, I 100% support seeding state going forward.  Even this head scratching is an improvement.  Either fix the margin of victory or disclose the parameters above.  (Also disclose a 2 time champ is not greater than 1 time champ if that is indeed the case).  Before I get off the soap box, make state double elimination next year! 

[Numbers]

JMO

I like seeing the state tournament but I believe the Sectional champs should get reward or sectionals is rather meaningless.

I assume you believe regionals are really meaningless?

[South Coach]

This morning my son and I are looking through the seeds and getting very excited for Friday and Saturday night. So many matches that previously would've been second round on Thursday (or maybe even first round) are now going to be later in the tournament. This is a huge improvement!

The first run at seeding was bound to have flaws but that is how you make progress. You try something and make adjustments based on how it worked.

[harley25]

JMO

I like seeing the state tournament but I believe the Sectional champs should get reward or sectionals is rather meaningless.

I assume you believe regionals are really meaningless?

When there are 2 kids in a lot of brackets at regionals yes I do. Again JMO. Doesn't make me right.

[panther93]

Just don't get it.  Full disclosure, I am a coach and a dad in this one, so obviously a homer.  DII 120.  How does a kid with a 40-4 record get the 12th seed when there are kids with 13, 14, and 7 loses ahead of him? All of them are third place finishers at sectionals and none of them have prior state appearances.  Record should come into play then. 

My 152 has beaten a kid twice in the last three weeks and still got seeded lower than him.  Makes no sense.

I understand that we want to split up the top kids and get the top two in the finals, but when our tournaments are 1 and done for many kids it makes no sense.

As I look at the other brackets there are a lot of head scratches already stated on this thread.   

[Bob Garrou]

Why have sectionals when you wrestle the same kids back to back at state. Way to mess it all up. 35 years of coaching and I can say the WIAA has always been a bunch of fools.

[CrossAnkle]

This morning my son and I are looking through the seeds and getting very excited for Friday and Saturday night. So many matches that previously would've been second round on Thursday (or maybe even first round) are now going to be later in the tournament. This is a huge improvement!

The first run at seeding was bound to have flaws but that is how you make progress. You try something and make adjustments based on how it worked.

Your right in terms of Division 1 it worked out for them and will get to see some great semis and finals.  For D2 and D3 it's a little sketchy.... For example Jackson Ormund beat Sloan Welch yesterday in the sectional final and Welch got the 2 seed and 1st round bye and Ormund a sectional Champion now is wrestling Thursday night. To me that doesn't even make sense. So, in that case Welch never even had to wrestle that match yesterday to get the 2 seed. That's just silly! The criteria is flawed and I hope it can be revised and made better for next year.

[madeyson]

My opinion - WIAA should have called this separation and not seeding. If you look at this as separation - for the most part it did pretty good. It is not seeding - you cannot have true seeds with no human interaction, Track isn't that good.