Wrestling Rules changes from the April NFHS meeting

[Handles II]

Based on this thread, I had to go revisit the piles of data I collected the 2016-17 season.
113, 195, 220,. 285, and 106 in that order had the most open slots in tournaments from beginning to end of the season.
No division averaged more than 11  varsity wrestlers per team in the season.including Regionals.  Most weights at most tournaments were less than 70% full.   
We have 7000 wrestlers now. We had 16000 with 12 weights.
Food for thought.

[tigerking]

Based on this thread, I had to go revisit the piles of data I collected the 2016-17 season.
113, 195, 220,. 285, and 106 in that order had the most open slots in tournaments from beginning to end of the season.
No division averaged more than 11  varsity wrestlers per team in the season.including Regionals.  Most weights at most tournaments were less than 70% full.   
We have 7000 wrestlers now. We had 16000 with 12 weights.
Food for thought.

So combine 106/113 at 110 and 182/195 at 190. Lower 220 to 215.

[Ghetto]

The scores might be closer but it will be more of a drubbing.  When a team better than you condenses their talent the weaker team will be less likely than before to win that 2 or three weights in the dual.

That's possible.

Let's try it and find out

So your whole point is close exciting duals will happen if we go to 12 which in turn will create buzz and help grow the sport. But you acknowledge that it might not change things? LOL

Also Pennsylvania didn't go to 12 they went to 13. They kept the first 9 weight classes exactly the same- 106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 145, 152, 160. The update was 172, 189, 215, 285. They did the opposite of what Ghetto has said with trying to push the weight classes higher. Basically they combined 195 and 220.

No one knows what will happen. I believe they will. You may believe they won't. Either way they are opinions. Yours just happens to be wrong. 

[MNbadger]

"So combine 106/113 at 110"....I hope we never do this! 
17% 14 year old males (freshmen) weigh 100 lbs.
10% 15 year old males (sophomores) weigh 100 lbs.

See my previous post listing 103 pounds and 106 pounds from the CDC Growth Charts.

[dman]

So after reading all these post that speak ad nauseum about how the poor little kids are getting opportunities taken away from them, explain to me how a 100lb kid CAN'T wrestle 108, or 106, or 103, or any weight that is higher than 100??   

[MNbadger]

No one said "they can't".  But it certainly is not optimal for them.  "A few pounds" is much more for a 100 pound wrestlers vs say, a wrestler who weighs 140.  There is a point at which we are kind of shutting potential participants out.  For a kid who weighs 100 pounds, 103 was a place they could be legitimately competitive.  106 is a stretch.  108 is a substantial stretch.  I have posted the numbers of what high school age males weigh.  Our weight classes should include the bottom 5-10% don't you think?

So after reading all these post that speak ad nauseum about how the poor little kids are getting opportunities taken away from them, explain to me how a 100lb kid CAN'T wrestle 108, or 106, or 103, or any weight that is higher than 100??   

[DocWrestling]

I have said a million times.  The JV weights should be different than the varsity weights.  Each weight class should probably be 5 lbs lighter.

[dman]

No one said "they can't".  But it certainly is not optimal for them.  "A few pounds" is much more for a 100 pound wrestlers vs say, a wrestler who weighs 140.  There is a point at which we are kind of shutting potential participants out.  For a kid who weighs 100 pounds, 103 was a place they could be legitimately competitive.  106 is a stretch.  108 is a substantial stretch.  I have posted the numbers of what high school age males weigh.  Our weight classes should include the bottom 5-10% don't you think?

So after reading all these post that speak ad nauseum about how the poor little kids are getting opportunities taken away from them, explain to me how a 100lb kid CAN'T wrestle 108, or 106, or 103, or any weight that is higher than 100??   

You literally said the new weights are "ignoring/excluding" the 100lb kids!  When you get called out on it you then turn around and try to weasel your way out of it by saying, "No one said "they can't".  But it certainly is not optimal for them."  The new weights are not "ignoring/excluding" anyone.  For crying out loud, wrestling is pretty much the only high school sport that gives a 100lb kid a chance to be on varsity...and be very successful.  Sure glad my 100lb kid isn't wrestling for a coach like you that would pretty much be telling him he has no chance.

[MNbadger]

I stand by my post.
Other sports let 100 pound kids compete.  Basketball would allow a 4' tall ninth grader to play.  They would struggle to compete though wouldn't they?  But they can play........
Why are you "calling me out"?  What does this even mean in this context?
Are you asking me to meet you in the middle school playground after school?!?!?!
I have posted the CDC Weight Charts showing the distribution of high school age males.  We are in discussions regularly on here in regard to numbers of participants.  It is our responsibility to the sport and to potential and current wrestlers to offer weight classes that best serve most of them.  The aforementioned CDC charts indicate that we should not raise the starting weight from 106.  I believe that the numbers show we should go back to 103 as a starting weight class..

No one said "they can't".  But it certainly is not optimal for them.  "A few pounds" is much more for a 100 pound wrestlers vs say, a wrestler who weighs 140.  There is a point at which we are kind of shutting potential participants out.  For a kid who weighs 100 pounds, 103 was a place they could be legitimately competitive.  106 is a stretch.  108 is a substantial stretch.  I have posted the numbers of what high school age males weigh.  Our weight classes should include the bottom 5-10% don't you think?

So after reading all these post that speak ad nauseum about how the poor little kids are getting opportunities taken away from them, explain to me how a 100lb kid CAN'T wrestle 108, or 106, or 103, or any weight that is higher than 100??   

You literally said the new weights are "ignoring/excluding" the 100lb kids!  When you get called out on it you then turn around and try to weasel your way out of it by saying, "No one said "they can't".  But it certainly is not optimal for them."  The new weights are not "ignoring/excluding" anyone.  For crying out loud, wrestling is pretty much the only high school sport that gives a 100lb kid a chance to be on varsity...and be very successful.  Sure glad my 100lb kid isn't wrestling for a coach like you that would pretty much be telling him he has no chance.

[Handles II]

I stand by my post.
Other sports let 100 pound kids compete.  Basketball would allow a 4' tall ninth grader to play.  They would struggle to compete though wouldn't they?  But they can play........
Why are you "calling me out"?  What does this even mean in this context?
Are you asking me to meet you in the middle school playground after school?!?!?!
I have posted the CDC Weight Charts showing the distribution of high school age males.  We are in discussions regularly on here in regard to numbers of participants.  It is our responsibility to the sport and to potential and current wrestlers to offer weight classes that best serve most of them.  The aforementioned CDC charts indicate that we should not raise the starting weight from 106.  I believe that the numbers show we should go back to 103 as a starting weight class..

No one said "they can't".  But it certainly is not optimal for them.  "A few pounds" is much more for a 100 pound wrestlers vs say, a wrestler who weighs 140.  There is a point at which we are kind of shutting potential participants out.  For a kid who weighs 100 pounds, 103 was a place they could be legitimately competitive.  106 is a stretch.  108 is a substantial stretch.  I have posted the numbers of what high school age males weigh.  Our weight classes should include the bottom 5-10% don't you think?

So after reading all these post that speak ad nauseum about how the poor little kids are getting opportunities taken away from them, explain to me how a 100lb kid CAN'T wrestle 108, or 106, or 103, or any weight that is higher than 100??   

You literally said the new weights are "ignoring/excluding" the 100lb kids!  When you get called out on it you then turn around and try to weasel your way out of it by saying, "No one said "they can't".  But it certainly is not optimal for them."  The new weights are not "ignoring/excluding" anyone.  For crying out loud, wrestling is pretty much the only high school sport that gives a 100lb kid a chance to be on varsity...and be very successful.  Sure glad my 100lb kid isn't wrestling for a coach like you that would pretty much be telling him he has no chance.

MN Badger, I'm not sure exactly how you are coming up with the suggestion that a 100lb kid (or 90, or 80) would not be allowed to compete (making the comparison that they could in basketball but apparently not in wrestling) with changes to the weights.  I see kids that size at virtually every JV tournament and many varsity tournaments. Wrestling allows them to compete, and in fact, since they aren't competing against kids that are 160lbs like they might in basketball, they have an increased chance for success.  I agree wholeheartedly that our small guys typically will grow into our middle weight guys in a few years, while our big guys will stay our big guys so some attention to the future of a program needs to be looked at, but they still can wrestle.

[MNbadger]

", I'm not sure exactly how you are coming up with the suggestion that a 100lb kid (or 90, or 80) would not be allowed to compete (making the comparison that they could in basketball but apparently not in wrestling) with changes to the weights"

I was referring to the previous post where the comment was made that we (wrestling) gave 100 pound kids a chance to compete.  I pointed out that other sports allow them to compete too. 
My point is that as we have kept raising the starting weight, it becomes more difficult for lighter kids to truly compete.  Those incremental changes are not necessarily incremental for a 100 pound kid but they likely are for heavier wrestlers.  When I posted this, I was essentially called a bad coach......   
How many 100 pound 4' tall kids start on your high school's basketball team?  My guess is that the number is zero.  My question to dman is, would you tell a 4' kid that he can start on the basketball team?  If not, I am sure glad you are not my kid's coach.......(note sarcasm)
One of our selling points has always been that we give kids a legitimate chance to be a part of varsity wrestling.  And yes, I believe if you are a 100 pound kid, all things being equal that going from 103 to 106 to conceivably 108 or more is too much of a jump.
Lastly, the fact is there are kids out there that we are not getting to.  There needs to be a place for them.
https://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41l021.pdf

[Wis-Mallard]

You act like every 106 weighs a full 106 exactly. Sure the 100 pound kid is going to hit a couple kids cutting down to get to 106, but they will also hit some 95-105 pound kids too. I know of multiple undersized kids that lost some matches at 106 their freshman year and came back the next year to do great as a full sized 106 or 113.

Making the starting weight 103 would promote weight cutting in some situations.

[MNbadger]

EVERY weight class promotes weight cutting, not just 103........?!?!?!

You act like every 106 weighs a full 106 exactly. Sure the 100 pound kid is going to hit a couple kids cutting down to get to 106, but they will also hit some 95-105 pound kids too. I know of multiple undersized kids that lost some matches at 106 their freshman year and came back the next year to do great as a full sized 106 or 113.

Making the starting weight 103 would promote weight cutting in some situations.

[MNbadger]

Our present 106 pounders are cutting down......news flash.  I don't know if you are missing my point or just don't want to see what I am saying.  It is undeniable that as you raise that starting weight, it makes it tougher for that smaller kid that we are both talking about to compete.  Every increase is a bigger deal to them than say a 140 or 145 pound wrestler.  I also know of multiple kids who lost matches at 106 and do great the next year at 106. .  What is your point?  I know kids who lost in one season at 140 and the next year won many matches at 145.  That is often what happens when we train and practice but it isn't weight class dependent, they got better.
  In fact, our "106" this year had to drink water to make the minimum (93 pounds after the growth allowance).  You cannot mount a valid argument that this weight class was appropriate for him.  By your own post, talking of the wrestlers growing into 106 it shows there is a need for a lower starting weight as does this:
https://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41l021.pdf

You act like every 106 weighs a full 106 exactly. Sure the 100 pound kid is going to hit a couple kids cutting down to get to 106, but they will also hit some 95-105 pound kids too. I know of multiple undersized kids that lost some matches at 106 their freshman year and came back the next year to do great as a full sized 106 or 113.

Making the starting weight 103 would promote weight cutting in some situations.

[Wis-Mallard]

You are right about all things 90-108! I know from the good old days that 98 and 103 promoted serious weight cutting. Let the little guys eat