Wrestling Rules changes from the April NFHS meeting

[DarkKnight]

I don't think the 12 weight class solution will eliminated the forfeit problem. 108 is still really light. I would like to see a by the numbers on what weight classes had the highest forfeit percentage in the State of Wisconsin. I would think it would be 106 and 113. Pretty hard to find wrestlers for those weights year in and year out.

Every year is different for the lightweights. Plenty of teams this past season had multiple strong 106lbers.

if you go to 12, weak teams will still be weak. there will be less available spots on the big roster schools. its not a magic fix. It would benefit the teams that lacked in that certain deleted weight class, and it would hinder the teams that had studs around that weight class that was substracted.

I would say stay with 14, if you need to drop, go to 13 and see if that makes you feel better. it ultimately won't after the fact. Every team has different holes and forfeits will still happen.

[Numbers]

Math would say it is more likely you will be able to fill a 12 person JV team if there are two less varsity weights to "fill" by trying to do better than a forfeit at the varsity level.

[Ghetto]

12 Weight Classes – 108, 116      124,     131, 138, 145, 152,     160,    170, 190, 215, 285

14 Weight Classes – 106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190, 215, 285

The formatting I'm trying to accomplish isn't great.

I don't like to say a specific weight is "eliminated". It's an emotional argument. The weights are adjusted.

I just hope that we are able to try adjusting the weight class number. I thought the NFHS was being wishy washy with allowing the options, but now I like it.

We could choose to go to 12 weights, and then if it was a disaster, we could go back pretty easily. I was talking to a friend who coaches, and he suggested we could try things on a trial basis. I agree with that. There is very little downfall to giving 12 weights a chance. I see no negative to a 3 year trial.

Unfortunately, all my data is on my computer at home.

I think the 12 weights that were picked are wrong, according to straight body fat numbers. I know others interpret the data differently.

[Ghetto]

I heard Ben Askren give this analogy to kids wrestling, and I like it for HS as well.

If you drop a frog into boiling water, they'll immediately try to jump out. If you gradually turn up the heat, they won't realize it and you can cook them.

Same thing with wrestlers. Our attrition rate is terrible. We lose too many kids. One reason may be that we throw them into the varsity fire too quickly. Adjusting the weights to 12 may reduce the need to just fill weights.

[Wis-Mallard]

With the super regionals in D2 and D3 we could send top 2 teams from each super regional to team sectionals. Folks from a certain D2 regional should be going nuts over the possibility of sending more kids to sectionals and the potential of 2 teams making it to team sectionals.

The upper 4 weights are basically the same for the 3 options. I guess 182 just went out the window. The middle is pretty close with all 3 options. I guess the WIAA will need to decide how many of the little weights we want. Our team has had a terrible time finding little guys and now we finally have some coming in middle school. I don't know what to think.

Do the rules allow for super regional format where top 2 advance to state for 16-man bracket in D2 and D3? Seed the state tournament while we are at it. The third place kid at stud super-regional left out of chance to advance on third at sectionals in current format. This gives another Saturday back to non-diehards. Team sectionals on historic individual sectionals weekend?

Just throwing out ideas...

[asdf]

I heard Ben Askren give this analogy to kids wrestling, and I like it for HS as well.

If you drop a frog into boiling water, they'll immediately try to jump out. If you gradually turn up the heat, they won't realize it and you can cook them.

Same thing with wrestlers. Our attrition rate is terrible. We lose too many kids. One reason may be that we throw them into the varsity fire too quickly. Adjusting the weights to 12 may reduce the need to just fill weights.

Or here is an even better way to lessen attrition-Don't be a crappy coach that throws kids out onto a varsity lineup that don't belong out there. 

Every DIV I school that can't consistently fill a lineup is either in need of a coaching change or in a few rare cases just not meant to have wrestling program.

I look forward to coming back to this blog in a few years to read how 12 classes didn't magically rally kids to come out and we need to go back to 14 to create opportunities.

[DarkKnight]

I enjoy watching all 14 weights at tournaments. Cutting opportunities won't fix the supposed overall problem. It will drop the number of forfeits and will help out some teams, but it will be detrimental to other teams.

I'll still enjoy watching 12 or 13 weight classes, but I will feel bad for those teams with two studs at 106 where one bumps up to 113, or those teams where they have plenty of athletic big guys to fill the upper weights out.

Kids aren't going to join the wrestling team because you dropped a couple weight classes.

Also less opportunities to place at state and less state champions each year equals less enjoyment for some wrestlers and fans. I'm sure there will be some different matchups to look forward to, but every year has matchups to look forward to. 

I enjoy watching the tough little 106lbers scrap. I think Rhett Koenig was about 100lbs when he won a 106lb title. I believe the Crass twins were both 103 as freshmen. Several other well accomplished wrestlers started out at 103 back in the day.

I know it's a difficult topic and we don't need to think too much about it until 2023, so we got time.

For the regional thing, we are hoping to break up that certain D2 regional up all together. It's a shame to cluster top teams into one regional, let alone one sectional. We prefer a little updating the method of regional/sectional placement to catch up with modern times. You can still base regionals/sectionals mostly on geography, but have some of the top talented teams travel to spread them out a bit. Hotels are easy to use these days. We do spend 3 days in expensive Madison for individual state.

[Ghetto]

Of course the number of weights doesn't attract (or detract) kids from wrestling. Kids aren't joining because of the number of weights no matter what.

They will join a team if there is buzz around that team. It is entirely possible that having two less weights creates a more competitive dual.

More than ever, kids transfer to good situations. Maybe the logjam pushes a kid to a school that doesn't have a 106 pounder instead of the team that has three?

I also love watching little guys. I will say it every year. I am only here on this forum because of being able to wrestle a light weight.

[MNbadger]

I thought going to two piece uniforms was going to fill our rooms with kids (never mind that I did this for years in the middle school level and it had little to no effect).

I heard Ben Askren give this analogy to kids wrestling, and I like it for HS as well.

If you drop a frog into boiling water, they'll immediately try to jump out. If you gradually turn up the heat, they won't realize it and you can cook them.

Same thing with wrestlers. Our attrition rate is terrible. We lose too many kids. One reason may be that we throw them into the varsity fire too quickly. Adjusting the weights to 12 may reduce the need to just fill weights.

Or here is an even better way to lessen attrition-Don't be a crappy coach that throws kids out onto a varsity lineup that don't belong out there. 

Every DIV I school that can't consistently fill a lineup is either in need of a coaching change or in a few rare cases just not meant to have wrestling program.

I look forward to coming back to this blog in a few years to read how 12 classes didn't magically rally kids to come out and we need to go back to 14 to create opportunities.

[MNbadger]

Some time ago when we went to 106 from 103 as the starting weight, we eliminated at least 5% of the potential high school aged boys from our pool of recruits.  The 12 and 13 weight choice make this even worse, approaching 10%. 
How can we think this will be better? 

12 Weight Classes – 108, 116      124,     131, 138, 145, 152,     160,    170, 190, 215, 285

14 Weight Classes – 106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190, 215, 285

The formatting I'm trying to accomplish isn't great.

I don't like to say a specific weight is "eliminated". It's an emotional argument. The weights are adjusted.

I just hope that we are able to try adjusting the weight class number. I thought the NFHS was being wishy washy with allowing the options, but now I like it.

We could choose to go to 12 weights, and then if it was a disaster, we could go back pretty easily. I was talking to a friend who coaches, and he suggested we could try things on a trial basis. I agree with that. There is very little downfall to giving 12 weights a chance. I see no negative to a 3 year trial.

Unfortunately, all my data is on my computer at home.

I think the 12 weights that were picked are wrong, according to straight body fat numbers. I know others interpret the data differently.

[Ghetto]

Some time ago when we went to 106 from 103 as the starting weight, we eliminated at least 5% of the potential high school aged boys from our pool of recruits.  The 12 and 13 weight choice make this even worse, approaching 10%. 
How can we think this will be better? 

12 Weight Classes – 108, 116      124,     131, 138, 145, 152,     160,    170, 190, 215, 285

14 Weight Classes – 106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190, 215, 285

The formatting I'm trying to accomplish isn't great.

I don't like to say a specific weight is "eliminated". It's an emotional argument. The weights are adjusted.

I just hope that we are able to try adjusting the weight class number. I thought the NFHS was being wishy washy with allowing the options, but now I like it.

We could choose to go to 12 weights, and then if it was a disaster, we could go back pretty easily. I was talking to a friend who coaches, and he suggested we could try things on a trial basis. I agree with that. There is very little downfall to giving 12 weights a chance. I see no negative to a 3 year trial.

Unfortunately, all my data is on my computer at home.

I think the 12 weights that were picked are wrong, according to straight body fat numbers. I know others interpret the data differently.

Come on. We eliminated kids?! Now the 103 pound kid can't wrestle because the weight class moved up two pounds to 108? The weight class is currently 109 at the end of the year. Do the kids who are at 100 have to quit when we get the weight allowance?

[MNbadger]

I did not say they would quit.  I will say they are more likely to quit over that than having to wear a singlet or wrestle on a team that has forfeits.
You can't deny that it is much tougher to compete for a lighter kid when the weight goes from 103 to 106 and now 108.  Might I remind you that you will not get more kids into wrestling if you decrease the potential weights they can wrestle.... This is not arguable.  One can say the can"t find 103 pounders but if you eliminate the weight you eliminate even the POTENTIAL for finding them.  I still have a tougher time finding heavier guys than lighter guys.  To top it off, my heavier guys are really just overweight.
I will post the CDC weight charts for high school age boys later tonight.  We should not be ignoring a good portion of potential participants.  To reiterate, it IS a stretch for a kid who barely makes the minimum for 106 to then wrestle 108.

Some time ago when we went to 106 from 103 as the starting weight, we eliminated at least 5% of the potential high school aged boys from our pool of recruits.  The 12 and 13 weight choice make this even worse, approaching 10%. 
How can we think this will be better? 

12 Weight Classes – 108, 116      124,     131, 138, 145, 152,     160,    170, 190, 215, 285

14 Weight Classes – 106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190, 215, 285

The formatting I'm trying to accomplish isn't great.

I don't like to say a specific weight is "eliminated". It's an emotional argument. The weights are adjusted.

I just hope that we are able to try adjusting the weight class number. I thought the NFHS was being wishy washy with allowing the options, but now I like it.

We could choose to go to 12 weights, and then if it was a disaster, we could go back pretty easily. I was talking to a friend who coaches, and he suggested we could try things on a trial basis. I agree with that. There is very little downfall to giving 12 weights a chance. I see no negative to a 3 year trial.

Unfortunately, all my data is on my computer at home.

I think the 12 weights that were picked are wrong, according to straight body fat numbers. I know others interpret the data differently.

Come on. We eliminated kids?! Now the 103 pound kid can't wrestle because the weight class moved up two pounds to 108? The weight class is currently 109 at the end of the year. Do the kids who are at 100 have to quit when we get the weight allowance?

[Numbers]

I did not say they would quit.  I will say they are more likely to quit over that than having to wear a singlet or wrestle on a team that has forfeits.
You can't deny that it is much tougher to compete for a lighter kid when the weight goes from 103 to 106 and now 108.  Might I remind you that you will not get more kids into wrestling if you decrease the potential weights they can wrestle.... This is not arguable.  One can say the can"t find 103 pounders but if you eliminate the weight you eliminate even the POTENTIAL for finding them.  I still have a tougher time finding heavier guys than lighter guys.  To top it off, my heavier guys are really just overweight.
I will post the CDC weight charts for high school age boys later tonight.  We should not be ignoring a good portion of potential participants.  To reiterate, it IS a stretch for a kid who barely makes the minimum for 106 to then wrestle 108.

Some time ago when we went to 106 from 103 as the starting weight, we eliminated at least 5% of the potential high school aged boys from our pool of recruits.  The 12 and 13 weight choice make this even worse, approaching 10%. 
How can we think this will be better? 

12 Weight Classes – 108, 116      124,     131, 138, 145, 152,     160,    170, 190, 215, 285

14 Weight Classes – 106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190, 215, 285

The formatting I'm trying to accomplish isn't great.

I don't like to say a specific weight is "eliminated". It's an emotional argument. The weights are adjusted.

I just hope that we are able to try adjusting the weight class number. I thought the NFHS was being wishy washy with allowing the options, but now I like it.

We could choose to go to 12 weights, and then if it was a disaster, we could go back pretty easily. I was talking to a friend who coaches, and he suggested we could try things on a trial basis. I agree with that. There is very little downfall to giving 12 weights a chance. I see no negative to a 3 year trial.

Unfortunately, all my data is on my computer at home.

I think the 12 weights that were picked are wrong, according to straight body fat numbers. I know others interpret the data differently.

Come on. We eliminated kids?! Now the 103 pound kid can't wrestle because the weight class moved up two pounds to 108? The weight class is currently 109 at the end of the year. Do the kids who are at 100 have to quit when we get the weight allowance?

This impacts maybe .2% of the wrestling population.  I know someone in this group as well but what about the 315 pound kid?  It will never be perfect.

[MNbadger]

.2% of the wrestlers?  No, mot true.
Ninth graders are 14/15 years old, correct?  Let's just take 15 years old.
Looking at the CDC growth charts for American males, slightly more than 10% weigh 103 pounds.  We want to count these kids out?!?!
This is on top of the fact that many ninth graders are 14 years old.  If you go there it is 25%.
So now we want to make the starting weight even higher?  This makes no sense looking at the pool of potential wrestlers.
I would bet that less than .2% of 315 pound high schoolers are not obese.  Actually I would bet close to 100% of those weighing 315 are obese.

[Wis-Mallard]

There will always be small freshman. If they are only 100 pounds they can still wrestle 106-108. There are not eliminated.