UW Wrestling and AWA

[asdf]

Perhaps a better question is what is the issue between Ben and Bono and/or the UW program?  A good relationship with the most successful club in the state would help the Badger wrestling program.  I was excited at the beginning, but what/why did it change?  Can it be mended...Is it an ego thing on both sides?

I'm a little out of the loop here.  I didn't know there was an issue with Ben and Coach Bono.  Could you please enlighten me? Anyone really.

Ben quit as the RTC, on this forum and twitter, citing lack of integrity and transparency.  Then did not back up or explain his beliefs on FLO the next day when asked.  Ben recently got into small twitter beef over Bono's upcoming youth tournament, Willy S joined in railing on Ben for a couple days. 

[vsmf2010]

Perhaps a better question is what is the issue between Ben and Bono and/or the UW program?  A good relationship with the most successful club in the state would help the Badger wrestling program.  I was excited at the beginning, but what/why did it change?  Can it be mended...Is it an ego thing on both sides?

I'm a little out of the loop here.  I didn't know there was an issue with Ben and Coach Bono.  Could you please enlighten me? Anyone really.

Askren took a shot at "leadership" when he resigned as head coach of the RTC and the assumption was it was at coach Bono. The tweet is below and the typo for transparency is his not mine.


Funky @Benaskren ·Aug 10, 2020
I resign effective immediately as the Head Coach of the Wisconsin RTC due to a lack of integrity and transperency by leadership

[vsmf2010]

Looking for some input on a topic that some of us have been kicking around the last couple of weeks...

Does the head wrestling coach at UW need to have a positive relationship with Ben Askren and AWA(this includes Max and the other coaches) in order to have success?  Particularly in regards to in-state recruiting and successful, well attended summer camps.

Another take on this is why can't the head of AWA have a good relationship with multiple UW coaches?
 
Does the head coach at AWA need to have a positive relationship with Chris Bono and UW (this includes Jon Reader and Seth Gross) in order to get his kids the most scholarship opportunities and assure they can wrestle close to home if they so choose?

I'm gonna say no. I'd imagine that the UW staff would pursue a talented wrestler regardless where he trained.

Also, if I had to guess, AWA is going outlast Bono and the bunch by a long shot.  Bono came into Ben's backyard.  So it's imperative that Bono makes the effort. For example the Gopher coaches have a great relationship with the pinnacle the twin cities.

Ben may very well outlast Bono and company and if history is an indicator, Ben will have an issue and not a great relationship with whomever the next head coach is too.

Unfortunately BuckyMatt you have hit the nail on the head

[tigerking]

It would be a benefit for everyone if they got along and AWA was pro UW.  It would help grow the sport in WI. 

If UW's goal is to be a top 5 program, unfortunately AWA has produced very few wrestlers that have produced a lot of points at NCAAs that would help UW get there, but O'toole looks to be a potential 4 time high AA and Keckeisen and Mocco are not far behind and appear to have had more college success to date than our young guys.

Wrestling is unique in that most high end programs do not rely on in state talent to be successful.  Bono was not able to get O'toole, but he was able to get Hamiti and Amos, who are both about at the same level.  There are only so many scholarships available, so if O'toole was here there might not be enough scholarship $ for Hamiti.  If AWA and Askren have a negative relationship with the coaches, and would push kids away from UW, IMO the biggest losers involved are the kids.  Hopefully that is not happening.

O'toole could actually be a 5 time AA. Honestly, I think AWA is just gaining on the national seen and we will see them produce more NCAA point as we progress into the future. They currently have 3 athletes on the D1 NCAA Level knocking on the door to AA. They will be producing more and more in the next couple years. Whiting has the potential to be great. Messerbrink will be phenomenal. Greyson Clark has potential. Connor Thorpe is a guy that has improved rapidly over the year. The Mirasola brothers look like studs. Matt Bianchi could have success for Little Rock.

I think Bono needs to figure out how to create a pipeline between Wisconsin and AWA because the D1 hammers are coming out of that club and it is going to get old real quick watching those guys AA for other D1 programs.

[wrestler_73]

I have tremendous respect for Ben and Max.  They have devoted their lives to improving wrestling and running a very successful and profitable company.  To say that they are not producing good enough talent to make a difference is ridiculous.  Can you be a consistent top 10 program in the nation with just Wisconsin kids... NO!  However, losing out on many of our top kids in the past and now will lead us down the same road we were on with  Barry.

I wish Ben would make this right.

[asdf]

It seems a lot of people are mixing Ben's angst against UW/Bono as AWA's angst against Bono/UW.

-Most of AWA's top performers are byproducts of Max, Josh W, John Mesenbrink, Jordan N, and soon Tristan M...Why assume Ben's drama is the same with 5 other coaches?  Are you assuming those 5 coaches care more about Ben's views then what best for the kids they coach?

-Many of these HS kids cited are not just "AWA property."  Look at Ringer and Nazar's posts of their state tourney  kids.  Lots of cross over. 

-Lots of positive changes in the past few years regarding WI clubs.  WI is producing more and more kids with DI promise (and DII and DII and now NAIA at Bryant and Stratton).  Would be great if Bono/Ben got along, but really doesn't matter one bit in my opinion.

 

[mkm13]

It would be a benefit for everyone if they got along and AWA was pro UW.  It would help grow the sport in WI. 

If UW's goal is to be a top 5 program, unfortunately AWA has produced very few wrestlers that have produced a lot of points at NCAAs that would help UW get there, but O'toole looks to be a potential 4 time high AA and Keckeisen and Mocco are not far behind and appear to have had more college success to date than our young guys.

Wrestling is unique in that most high end programs do not rely on in state talent to be successful.  Bono was not able to get O'toole, but he was able to get Hamiti and Amos, who are both about at the same level.  There are only so many scholarships available, so if O'toole was here there might not be enough scholarship $ for Hamiti.  If AWA and Askren have a negative relationship with the coaches, and would push kids away from UW, IMO the biggest losers involved are the kids.  Hopefully that is not happening.

O'toole could actually be a 5 time AA. Honestly, I think AWA is just gaining on the national seen and we will see them produce more NCAA point as we progress into the future. They currently have 3 athletes on the D1 NCAA Level knocking on the door to AA. They will be producing more and more in the next couple years. Whiting has the potential to be great. Messerbrink will be phenomenal. Greyson Clark has potential. Connor Thorpe is a guy that has improved rapidly over the year. The Mirasola brothers look like studs. Matt Bianchi could have success for Little Rock.

I think Bono needs to figure out how to create a pipeline between Wisconsin and AWA because the D1 hammers are coming out of that club and it is going to get old real quick watching those guys AA for other D1 programs.

You are correct, O'Toole could be a 5 time AA.  He likely will be assuming he wants to stay for 5 years and does not get injured.  Were the 3 athletes a small waive of talent where it slide back to what it was prior to them similar to what happened after Dieringer, Thiekle, and Sueflohn?  I personally don't think the wrestlers you mentioned are at the same level in terms of college potential, but I hope they are as that would be great for them and wrestling in WI.  They have done great in WI, but for the most part have not had the same success against other elite wrestlers in national tournaments.

It would be great if AWA and the state of WI can produce a couple kids in each recruiting class that produce major points at NCAA's.  Will be curious to track the progress as the years pass.

[wrastle63]

It seems a lot of people are mixing Ben's angst against UW/Bono as AWA's angst against Bono/UW.

-Most of AWA's top performers are byproducts of Max, Josh W, John Mesenbrink, Jordan N, and soon Tristan M...Why assume Ben's drama is the same with 5 other coaches?  Are you assuming those 5 coaches care more about Ben's views then what best for the kids they coach?

-Many of these HS kids cited are not just "AWA property."  Look at Ringer and Nazar's posts of their state tourney  kids.  Lots of cross over. 

-Lots of positive changes in the past few years regarding WI clubs.  WI is producing more and more kids with DI promise (and DII and DII and now NAIA at Bryant and Stratton).  Would be great if Bono/Ben got along, but really doesn't matter one bit in my opinion.

He wrestled for Bono and Reader which should help. Ben has every right to dislike or not want to be apart of the UW program, but wish it wasn't such a public situation(posting on twitter, FRL, etc.).  Bad for recruiting and growing the support for the program.

[The Legend]

Bridges have been burned.  Just because you wrestled for a guy doesn't mean you will remain loyal.  Loyalty is a two way street. Having talked to several club coaches across this state.  I am not sure it's just AWA that UW needs to be concerned about.

[vsmf2010]

It would be a benefit for everyone if they got along and AWA was pro UW.  It would help grow the sport in WI. 

If UW's goal is to be a top 5 program, unfortunately AWA has produced very few wrestlers that have produced a lot of points at NCAAs that would help UW get there, but O'toole looks to be a potential 4 time high AA and Keckeisen and Mocco are not far behind and appear to have had more college success to date than our young guys.

Wrestling is unique in that most high end programs do not rely on in state talent to be successful.  Bono was not able to get O'toole, but he was able to get Hamiti and Amos, who are both about at the same level.  There are only so many scholarships available, so if O'toole was here there might not be enough scholarship $ for Hamiti.  If AWA and Askren have a negative relationship with the coaches, and would push kids away from UW, IMO the biggest losers involved are the kids.  Hopefully that is not happening.

O'toole could actually be a 5 time AA. Honestly, I think AWA is just gaining on the national seen and we will see them produce more NCAA point as we progress into the future. They currently have 3 athletes on the D1 NCAA Level knocking on the door to AA. They will be producing more and more in the next couple years. Whiting has the potential to be great. Messerbrink will be phenomenal. Greyson Clark has potential. Connor Thorpe is a guy that has improved rapidly over the year. The Mirasola brothers look like studs. Matt Bianchi could have success for Little Rock.

I think Bono needs to figure out how to create a pipeline between Wisconsin and AWA because the D1 hammers are coming out of that club and it is going to get old real quick watching those guys AA for other D1 programs.

Out of curiosity which 3 are you referring to?

[mkm13]

I am guessing he is talking about O'Toole, Keckeisen, and Mocco.  Might be a little early to put Mocco into that category despite being undefeated this year as his best win is against the #26th ranked guy on wrestleastat who is 6-4 this year.

[vsmf2010]

I am guessing he is talking about O'Toole, Keckeisen, and Mocco.  Might be a little early to put Mocco into that category despite being undefeated this year as his best win is against the #26th ranked guy on wrestleastat who is 6-4 this year.

We are on the same page. I think Barnett would have a better shot at this point than Mocco so I thought maybe EB was the 3rd. Keckeisen (3 top 16) and Barnett have the best wins of the 4 so far. O'Toole is a legit stud no doubt but has not hit anyone inside the top 20 yet. I am anxious to see what he can do with those top tier guys. He could definitely AA this year especially with 165 being down vs the last couple of years. To think in 2019 the 8th best wrestler was Logan Massa.

Another WI wrestler to watch is Stephen Buchanan. He is on a terror. Two wins over Noah Adams is no joke. Have to like his chances at the podium.

[1Iota]

It would be a benefit for everyone if they got along and AWA was pro UW.  It would help grow the sport in WI. 

If UW's goal is to be a top 5 program, unfortunately AWA has produced very few wrestlers that have produced a lot of points at NCAAs that would help UW get there, but O'toole looks to be a potential 4 time high AA and Keckeisen and Mocco are not far behind and appear to have had more college success to date than our young guys.

Wrestling is unique in that most high end programs do not rely on in state talent to be successful.  Bono was not able to get O'toole, but he was able to get Hamiti and Amos, who are both about at the same level.  There are only so many scholarships available, so if O'toole was here there might not be enough scholarship $ for Hamiti.  If AWA and Askren have a negative relationship with the coaches, and would push kids away from UW, IMO the biggest losers involved are the kids.  Hopefully that is not happening.

O'toole could actually be a 5 time AA. Honestly, I think AWA is just gaining on the national seen and we will see them produce more NCAA point as we progress into the future. They currently have 3 athletes on the D1 NCAA Level knocking on the door to AA. They will be producing more and more in the next couple years. Whiting has the potential to be great. Messerbrink will be phenomenal. Greyson Clark has potential. Connor Thorpe is a guy that has improved rapidly over the year. The Mirasola brothers look like studs. Matt Bianchi could have success for Little Rock.

I think Bono needs to figure out how to create a pipeline between Wisconsin and AWA because the D1 hammers are coming out of that club and it is going to get old real quick watching those guys AA for other D1 programs.

I hope you're right about all these kids, but as someone who has watched O'toole wrestle since he was 5 I can assure you he was on another level his whole life.  We knew long before he joined AWA that he was special. 

[Ghetto]

This is going to keep coming up for as long as AWA is a club, and with any coach who is the head of the Badger wrestling team.

Did anyone think that two alpha males like Coach Bono and Ben Askren would continue to agree on things long term? Ben is loyal to his guys, and if something went sideways with one of the AWA guys, that would cause a riff between the two. Plus, if Ben wanted the UW job, there would always be this feeling that he could do it better than Bono.

What AWA kid SHOULD have gone to UW?

O'Toole is a loss. He's the real deal
Mocco was a diamond in the rough that was jumped on the radar when he almost beat Sasso.
Keckeisen was similar to Mocco. Jumped in the radar late

I would hope that AWA would push towards Wisconsin when the kid fit the program. The style of AWA isn't Bono's style, so it's going to be rare when the fit is right.

[dman]

I would hope that AWA would push towards Wisconsin when the kid fit the program. The style of AWA isn't Bono's style, so it's going to be rare when the fit is right.

Curious...what is different about AWA's "style" from Bono's "style"??  Technique?  Philosophy?