SECTIONALS: Interesting Results or Happenings!

[Handles II]

Ditch Conference tournament, as some have already done. Or have Conference earlier in the season. There's no advancement and since Conferences are changing all the time, there's no real history. Conference is really just for football dads.
Regional team duals that Saturday.  Winners of Regionals dual on the following Tuesday to get to State.
Individual Regionals/Sectionals/State the following weekends. 16 man brackets in each division at State.

Handles II you make it sound easy. Maybe it isn't that easy to just do away with conference tournaments. But I bet a Middle School kid could help....maybe you could make a video on how to do it...

This has already occured in our state, and it doesn't seem to be an issue of any sort.

[thequad]

Two River's regional
State qualifiers from this regional
11-1st placers
6-2nd placers
Now that is a ridiculously tough regional! 

[bigoil]

Ditch Conference tournament, as some have already done. Or have Conference earlier in the season. There's no advancement and since Conferences are changing all the time, there's no real history. Conference is really just for football dads.
Regional team duals that Saturday.  Winners of Regionals dual on the following Tuesday to get to State.
Individual Regionals/Sectionals/State the following weekends. 16 man brackets in each division at State.

Handles II you make it sound easy. Maybe it isn't that easy to just do away with conference tournaments. But I bet a Middle School kid could help....maybe you could make a video on how to do it...

This has already occured in our state, and it doesn't seem to be an issue of any sort.

I love a conference championship but arguably the toughest conference in the state, the Northeast Conf does not hold one. Coaches vote on all conference. We see each other so often, one dual, cheesehead, bayport, freedom invite, Pulaski, regionals, sectionals, and  state , maybe team sectionals if separated regionals, it adds up. It can be done with out it or as handles said, move it up.

[downtown]

Seymour sectional champion and team state qualifier Winneconne.

[littleguy301]

Two River's regional
State qualifiers from this regional
11-1st placers
6-2nd placers
Now that is a ridiculously tough regional!

Quad I know your pretty proud of your regional and you should be also. While i think most involved in wrestling know or knew that regional was loaded but if you look around the state there were some tough regionals that domt get talked about at all!

I believe the Baldwin-Woodville regional was like 9 and 5 and the Baldwin-Woodville regional had 1 less team so pretty close if you ask me.

Edgar was 5 and 5 with 6 teams also.

I would bet there are some other good regionals out there also, not starting a fight just saying

[MEJ2]

Seymour sectional champion and team state qualifier Winneconne.

Your point?  On a normal year Winneconne most likely doesn't win the team sectional. Good for them qualifying this year but this scenario plus a few others proves that WIAA's format this year was flawed on so many levels. Hence the conversation of using some positives from this year to create a system that still provides opportunities but at the same time gets the best kids/teams in the future.

I still think now that we had a year without conference tournaments and divisions had not only equal teams but also had the same format.

Current Conference Weekend:  Top 8 teams (determined by ranking committee because everyone wants to hold these rankings to high standards then let's utilize the hard work & hours they put in). Dual format, lose first round out, top 2 with wrestleback option to 2nd if those teams didn't meet. Total duals with wrestleback 4.

Current regional weekend:  Leave assignments as is except seed out top 4 in 4 different regionals. Top 2 to sectionals.

No Tuesday Team Sectional Duals

Current sectional weekend:  Top 3 to state

Current Individual State weekend:  16 man bracket for all, sectional get byes (seed the sectional champs), double elimination tournament (no reason you should only wrestle 1 match at state). Same bracket for all divisions.

Current Team State:  8 teams qualified (seeded), quarters Friday, semis Saturday morning, finals Saturday afternoon. Selfish request (hold it at the new arena next the Resch Center in Green Bay)

[downtown]

Seymour sectional champion and team state qualifier Winneconne.

Your point?  On a normal year Winneconne most likely doesn't win the team sectional. Good for them qualifying this year but this scenario plus a few others proves that WIAA's format this year was flawed on so many levels. Hence the conversation of using some positives from this year to create a system that still provides opportunities but at the same time gets the best kids/teams in the future.

I still think now that we had a year without conference tournaments and divisions had not only equal teams but also had the same format.

Current Conference Weekend:  Top 8 teams (determined by ranking committee because everyone wants to hold these rankings to high standards then let's utilize the hard work & hours they put in). Dual format, lose first round out, top 2 with wrestleback option to 2nd if those teams didn't meet. Total duals with wrestleback 4.

Current regional weekend:  Leave assignments as is except seed out top 4 in 4 different regionals. Top 2 to sectionals.

No Tuesday Team Sectional Duals

Current sectional weekend:  Top 3 to state

Current Individual State weekend:  16 man bracket for all, sectional get byes (seed the sectional champs), double elimination tournament (no reason you should only wrestle 1 match at state). Same bracket for all divisions.

Current Team State:  8 teams qualified (seeded), quarters Friday, semis Saturday morning, finals Saturday afternoon. Selfish request (hold it at the new arena next the Resch Center in Green Bay)

My point is the same point as quads.  There is no point.  What is your point?

The wiaa doesn't care what a bunch of people on a forum are saying even if it is rationale.  I don't think they even care what the coaches association thinks considering they rarely ever go with their requests.  The fact that a individual tournament decides who can even compete for team sectionals is absurd.

Quad constantly talking about his great regional makes me laugh considering Winneconne had more state qualifiers than any other team from his super tough regional.  For as brutal as the regional  sounded I expected every kid who qualified out of that regional qualify for state.  Not even close.  Winneconne ended up qualifying more kids than any other team from that regional.

[downtown]

You will get your double elimination at state starting this year and every year after.  The wiaa is going to like how this is working out with 8 person bracket throughout the state tournament series and with bringing on girls wrestling as a varsity sport next year that is what you are going to get for a state tournament. Four eight person brackets.  All with double elimination.  The wiaa will blame it on cost saving measures because of Covid and the coaches association will fight it but in the end will push onward and adapt because that is what wrestling teaches you.  Move on, adapt, work harder to achieve goals. 

[DocWrestling]

I am a firm believer that not everyone needs to make the playoffs and that nobody's season needs to be over when eliminated from the playoffs.  Create more opportunities.

Conference, regionals, sectionals, state, etc is such a waste of time for most wrestling the same people over and over.

The playoffs are your "A" bracket with your best wrestlers and team in each division.  Maybe only the top 3 or 4 in each conference even qualify for the playoffs.  Eliminate regionals and use conference tournaments to determine wrestlers that qualify for "A" bracket.  Or maybe you simply say only wrestlers with winning records qualify for "A" bracket which leads to state tournament.  We do not need regionals to only eliminate the wrestlers that were never going to go to state anyway.

Then have the "B" bracket for all those wrestlers and teams that are not at the level of the "A" bracket.  They get to wrestle and compete against similar wrestlers and teams in terms of talent.  Sectionals would have an "A" bracket and a "B" bracket.  Anyone in "b" Bracket is ineligible for state tournament but they are getting quality matches.

Each D1 sectional has 16 teams.  Why not put top 8 wrestlers in championship bracket to go to state and the other 8 in silver bracket.  Why do we waste time over two weekends with regionals and sectionals to have 10-20 wrestlers get pinned by 20-10 or even better wrestlers?

For team build 32 team brackets with multiple "A", "B". "C" brackets.  Let teams shoot for winning the "B" bracket and opportunity to continue to wrestle and wrestle teams they don't normally get to wrestle.  Have the brackets go both ways so even if you lose you get more opportunities.

Why can't all wrestlers and teams wrestle up until team state?  Let teams set up duals or individual tournaments for those kids that di not make it to sectionals, did not make it to state, or did not make it to team state.

Think outside the box and give quality opportunities to every level of team and wrestler

[MEJ2]

Seymour sectional champion and team state qualifier Winneconne.

Your point?  On a normal year Winneconne most likely doesn't win the team sectional. Good for them qualifying this year but this scenario plus a few others proves that WIAA's format this year was flawed on so many levels. Hence the conversation of using some positives from this year to create a system that still provides opportunities but at the same time gets the best kids/teams in the future.

I still think now that we had a year without conference tournaments and divisions had not only equal teams but also had the same format.

Current Conference Weekend:  Top 8 teams (determined by ranking committee because everyone wants to hold these rankings to high standards then let's utilize the hard work & hours they put in). Dual format, lose first round out, top 2 with wrestleback option to 2nd if those teams didn't meet. Total duals with wrestleback 4.

Current regional weekend:  Leave assignments as is except seed out top 4 in 4 different regionals. Top 2 to sectionals.

No Tuesday Team Sectional Duals

Current sectional weekend:  Top 3 to state

Current Individual State weekend:  16 man bracket for all, sectional get byes (seed the sectional champs), double elimination tournament (no reason you should only wrestle 1 match at state). Same bracket for all divisions.

Current Team State:  8 teams qualified (seeded), quarters Friday, semis Saturday morning, finals Saturday afternoon. Selfish request (hold it at the new arena next the Resch Center in Green Bay)

My point is the same point as quads.  There is no point.  What is your point?

The wiaa doesn't care what a bunch of people on a forum are saying even if it is rationale.  I don't think they even care what the coaches association thinks considering they rarely ever go with their requests.  The fact that a individual tournament decides who can even compete for team sectionals is absurd.

Quad constantly talking about his great regional makes me laugh considering Winneconne had more state qualifiers than any other team from his super tough regional.  For as brutal as the regional  sounded I expected every kid who qualified out of that regional qualify for state.  Not even close.  Winneconne ended up qualifying more kids than any other team from that regional.

On pure stats the "super tough regional" qualified 15 of 28 spots with three teams qualifying 3 wrestlers each (which is not way behind Winneconne's 4). In case you didn't look at the other regionals, Winneconne's regional sent 6, the other 2 regionals sent 3 and 4 respectively.

The problem and hopefully now having same formats (number of sectionals, number of qualifiers, etc) is now the coaches in the coaches association can all fight for the same thing. In the past you had D1 fighting for their own problems & D2/3 fighting for separate problems and where the majority doesn't get on the same page or all behind an idea is that fighting for something that doesn't affect you is a waste of time in some eyes.

The other problem that follows is only your top 10% at best want it changed because it's the right thing to do. The I'll call it middle of the road 40-90% don't want change because it gives them opportunity to win regional team titles, send 7-12 guys to sectionals, success that keeps kids out for wrestling. Just separating the top 4 teams among the regionals, middle of the road teams probably don't win team regionals, don't send 9 guys to sectionals and get 0 guys to state. Then your 40% on down definitely don't want it changed because the 1 or 2 guys that may have a shot at the next level or two don't get that shot.

Downtown, you are absolutely right that WIAA will use excuses to keep it where we are at but the entire coaches association needs to step up and push through what we all want. This route now obviously takes top teams and kids out. Just the kids view point, keeping this same format takes out 224 kids from being state qualifiers. And I don't want to hear "just be happy we have a post season". This was botched on so many levels and the coaches association will need to spend some major time putting together a proposal that all 3 divisions can get behind.

[downtown]

Seymour sectional champion and team state qualifier Winneconne.

Your point?  On a normal year Winneconne most likely doesn't win the team sectional. Good for them qualifying this year but this scenario plus a few others proves that WIAA's format this year was flawed on so many levels. Hence the conversation of using some positives from this year to create a system that still provides opportunities but at the same time gets the best kids/teams in the future.

I still think now that we had a year without conference tournaments and divisions had not only equal teams but also had the same format.

Current Conference Weekend:  Top 8 teams (determined by ranking committee because everyone wants to hold these rankings to high standards then let's utilize the hard work & hours they put in). Dual format, lose first round out, top 2 with wrestleback option to 2nd if those teams didn't meet. Total duals with wrestleback 4.

Current regional weekend:  Leave assignments as is except seed out top 4 in 4 different regionals. Top 2 to sectionals.

No Tuesday Team Sectional Duals

Current sectional weekend:  Top 3 to state

Current Individual State weekend:  16 man bracket for all, sectional get byes (seed the sectional champs), double elimination tournament (no reason you should only wrestle 1 match at state). Same bracket for all divisions.

Current Team State:  8 teams qualified (seeded), quarters Friday, semis Saturday morning, finals Saturday afternoon. Selfish request (hold it at the new arena next the Resch Center in Green Bay)

My point is the same point as quads.  There is no point.  What is your point?

The wiaa doesn't care what a bunch of people on a forum are saying even if it is rationale.  I don't think they even care what the coaches association thinks considering they rarely ever go with their requests.  The fact that a individual tournament decides who can even compete for team sectionals is absurd.

Quad constantly talking about his great regional makes me laugh considering Winneconne had more state qualifiers than any other team from his super tough regional.  For as brutal as the regional  sounded I expected every kid who qualified out of that regional qualify for state.  Not even close.  Winneconne ended up qualifying more kids than any other team from that regional.

On pure stats the "super tough regional" qualified 15 of 28 spots with three teams qualifying 3 wrestlers each (which is not way behind Winneconne's 4). In case you didn't look at the other regionals, Winneconne's regional sent 6, the other 2 regionals sent 3 and 4 respectively.

The problem and hopefully now having same formats (number of sectionals, number of qualifiers, etc) is now the coaches in the coaches association can all fight for the same thing. In the past you had D1 fighting for their own problems & D2/3 fighting for separate problems and where the majority doesn't get on the same page or all behind an idea is that fighting for something that doesn't affect you is a waste of time in some eyes.

The other problem that follows is only your top 10% at best want it changed because it's the right thing to do. The I'll call it middle of the road 40-90% don't want change because it gives them opportunity to win regional team titles, send 7-12 guys to sectionals, success that keeps kids out for wrestling. Just separating the top 4 teams among the regionals, middle of the road teams probably don't win team regionals, don't send 9 guys to sectionals and get 0 guys to state. Then your 40% on down definitely don't want it changed because the 1 or 2 guys that may have a shot at the next level or two don't get that shot.

Downtown, you are absolutely right that WIAA will use excuses to keep it where we are at but the entire coaches association needs to step up and push through what we all want. This route now obviously takes top teams and kids out. Just the kids view point, keeping this same format takes out 224 kids from being state qualifiers. And I don't want to hear "just be happy we have a post season". This was botched on so many levels and the coaches association will need to spend some major time putting together a proposal that all 3 divisions can get behind.

You are correct this whole thing was botched and people should not be satisfied that we at least had a season.  The wiaa will use this against the coaches association to leverage them for what the wiaa wants for the future.  The good thing is that all the divisions are on the same footing now so they should in theory be more cohesive.  Wrestling is absolutely getting screwed with the post season compared to the other winter sports and we as a wrestling community are more or less just taking it. 

One thought that I had was that the wiaa will run 8 person brackets in the future for state individual  on Friday and Saturday with double elimination.  But run the state team tournament on Thursday.  With the top two teams from each individual sectional qualifying for team state in each division.  The wiaa doesn't have to pay for another weekend for state team.  Plus they don't have to pay for the Tuesday night team sectionals which I am sure they all lose money on.  But yet they still have the same rental for the Kohl center Thursday through Saturday as they used to.  Plus they will also save in paying for accommodations, mileage, feildhouse and officials.  More teams qualify which mean more people travel to team state which then will most likely buy tickets to individual state since they are already in Madison.  Could the coaches association get behind that?  I don't like a state team tournament being decided by a individual tournament.  But the best dual team in a sectional should place top two in the individual sectional almost every year.

[padre]

You will get your double elimination at state starting this year and every year after.  The wiaa is going to like how this is working out with 8 person bracket throughout the state tournament series and with bringing on girls wrestling as a varsity sport next year that is what you are going to get for a state tournament. Four eight person brackets.  All with double elimination.  The wiaa will blame it on cost saving measures because of Covid and the coaches association will fight it but in the end will push onward and adapt because that is what wrestling teaches you.  Move on, adapt, work harder to achieve goals.

I certainly hope your wrong.  I think there will be a lot of major push back if that is attempted.  However, I trust nothing with Wade.  There was no reason to switch anything this year in the postseason  but what he says goes.  Not a way things should be run.

I do know money plays a big part in what the WIAA decides and going down to 8 man would most likely eliminate at least one session and possibly cut out Thursday ...I don't know if they are willing to give that up.

Who knows...the way things are going Madison might still be locked down in the winter.

As a coach that generally has teams in tough sectionals I'd be extremely disappointed if they kept it status quo.

[Married with children]

Theres no crying in wrestling boys......

[bigG]

You hold the bag while I shovel. 

[Houndhead]

Seymour sectional champion and team state qualifier Winneconne.

Your point?  On a normal year Winneconne most likely doesn't win the team sectional. Good for them qualifying this year but this scenario plus a few others proves that WIAA's format this year was flawed on so many levels. Hence the conversation of using some positives from this year to create a system that still provides opportunities but at the same time gets the best kids/teams in the future.

I still think now that we had a year without conference tournaments and divisions had not only equal teams but also had the same format.

Current Conference Weekend:  Top 8 teams (determined by ranking committee because everyone wants to hold these rankings to high standards then let's utilize the hard work & hours they put in). Dual format, lose first round out, top 2 with wrestleback option to 2nd if those teams didn't meet. Total duals with wrestleback 4.

Current regional weekend:  Leave assignments as is except seed out top 4 in 4 different regionals. Top 2 to sectionals.

No Tuesday Team Sectional Duals

Current sectional weekend:  Top 3 to state

Current Individual State weekend:  16 man bracket for all, sectional get byes (seed the sectional champs), double elimination tournament (no reason you should only wrestle 1 match at state). Same bracket for all divisions.

Current Team State:  8 teams qualified (seeded), quarters Friday, semis Saturday morning, finals Saturday afternoon. Selfish request (hold it at the new arena next the Resch Center in Green Bay)

Do you realize that double elimination means you could lose in the first round and still get first place?