If I was in charge of wrestling in wisconsin

[Ghetto]

If it's super complicated it will never happen. The Illinois system has been in place and seems to work. Why not adopt it and then tweak it?

[MNbadger]

In regard to your #2.......
8 Sections for each division (divisions roughly equal numbers)
Weekend I Section Team Duals (We do a pigtail on Wednesday) Friday three rounds
Section champs go to state (8 team state bracket)
Weekend II Section Individual Tournament (Friday/Saturday).  This could be done in one day, some do.
Top two per weight go to state (16 man state bracket)
Weekend III "State"
Thursday Team Dual Championships
Friday/Saturday Individual Championships
We do not yet have double elimination but we are working on it.
I also believe this would help diminish the number of skinny weight brackets in your present regionals.

Both team and individual tournaments seeded via trackwrestling then reviewed.

After January 15th, at least half your weigh ins have to be at your desired section weight.

This addresses almost everything you fellows are asking for and what you want changed.

This is right next door and has been working great for a long time.   
Your kids deserve a better system and it would be more fun and more exciting for you fans.  If you haven't done so, come and watch a section tourney or the state tourney next year.   

[Sportsman]

So this idea probably has a bunch of holes in it, but it balances a lot of the current system with some improvements - So imperfect, but hopefully this idea is an improvement.  Feel free to destroy it.

Issues with current system:
1.  Winner of regional might not be true better dual team.
2.  Two solid dual teams may be in same regional/sectional and may not get trip to state
3.  Current sectional system for D1 only sends 2 to state (3rd best guy might sit at home)
4.  Current regional system for D2/D3 only sends 2 to sectional (3rd best guy might sit at home)
5.  Current regional system for D1 sends 4 to regionals when only 2 get through to state....seems unnecessary to send 4 when trimming down to half the following weekend but my proposal for D2/D3 sends 4 then 3 just for easy bracket making

Proposal (this adds no additional weigh-ins or multiple day tournaments):
1.  Super-Regionals for all Divisions (Group 2 of current regionals together) - Same day - Weekend Saturday 1
     1.A.  Sends top 4 place winners to Sectionals
     1.B.  Sends top 3 tournament teams to Team Sectionals
          1.B.i.  No need for dual tournament for all teams which has been suggested (since some likely do not have full rosters and limits matches)
          1.B.ii.  If team is "best" team, it will likely fall in the top 3 for tournament scoring
     1.C.  Bracket - Unable to attach picture...so will try to explain
          1.C.i. - 16 man bracket - Finalists advance (Final loser would be no different from winning 7 man bracket under current system)
          1.C.ii.  Round 1 losers go to consolation bracket (likely not a top 4 candidate if received a 9 seed or lower - seeding criteria at regionals may need improvement - 9 seed is also likely similar to 5th seed (D2/D3) today which must win to have a second match)
          1.C.iii.  Semifinal losers will wrestle for 3rd, with an opportunity for 2nd if they have not yet met
          1.C.iv.  Round 2 losers wrestle back to 5th where their 5th match will be against 4th place from match mentioned in 1.C.iii. (regardless if they met it Round 2).  Forcing this match removes possibility from Round 2 winner losing next two rounds and clinching advancement to sectionals.
(Super-Regionals is imperfect in that 4th place guy may actually be 2nd/3rd best but in D1 proposal below is guaranteed a 2nd match at sectionals and in D2/D3 if they lose the first round they can still advance under current system - unless guy they lost to is beaten next round, then there are 3 guys better than them, the two at sectionals and the person who beat them at regionals)

2.  Team Sectional for all Divisions - Same day - Tuesday after Regionals
     2.A.  Round 1:  2nd place and 3rd place team from same Regionals
     2.B.  Round 2:  Winner of Round 1 will face 1st place team from other Super-Regional
     2.C.  Finals:  These teams both punch ticket to state (will be an 8 team bracket at state)
          (why no wrestleback for 2nd? - eliminates extra match, places importance on winning Regional, and also WIAA does not typically do for other sports, so imperfect but best team is making it to state and hopefully 2nd best as well)


3.  Individual Sectional - Same day - 2nd Saturday
     3.A.  Brackets are auto-seeded
          3.A.i.  Top:  1A vs. 4B and 3A vs 2B - Bottom 2A vs 3B and 4A vs 1B
     3.B.  D1 - Sends top 4 to State
          3.B.i.  Wrestleback side of D1 -Unable to attach picture...so will try to explain
          3.B.ii.  Round 1 losers will be able to wrestle back to 2nd - First by meeting the other R1 loser from their half and then the semi-final loser from opposite half
          3.B.iii.  Following match is 3rd place match (loser is 4th), winner can wrestle to 2nd if have not met yet
     3.C.  D2/D3 - Sectional will run as it is today - top 3 advance, winner gets 1st round bye at state


4.  Individual State - Same weekend as current
     4.A.  D1 - Bracket auto-seeded - Unable to attach picture...so will try to explain
          4.A.i.  Each quad will have a representive from each Sectional - Ex: 1A vs 4D and 3C vs 2B
          4.A.ii.  You will be unable to meet someone from your sectional until 3rd Round - 1st and 4th place from same sectional would be on opposite half of bracket as 2nd and 3rd
     4.B.  D2/D3 - Same as current system


5.  Team State - Same weekend as current
     5.A.  Seed the 1st place sectional winners, 2nds get opposite side of bracket as 1st from their corresponding regional

[bigG]

I was unaware if the WIAA established a documented appeal process for litigious/over-the-top parents. If not, that's my first request of the WrestleCzar.

[whatever]

I was unaware if the WIAA established a documented appeal process for litigious/over-the-top parents. If not, that's my first request of the WrestleCzar.

....you keep bringing issues like this up.

When do you plan to drop it?  I, for one, am sick of seeing you reference this topic ad nauseam.

[bigG]

I was unaware if the WIAA established a documented appeal process for litigious/over-the-top parents. If not, that's my first request of the WrestleCzar.

....you keep bringing issues like this up.

When do you plan to drop it?  I, for one, am sick of seeing you reference this topic ad nauseam.

Seems you've held on very well, also, as evidenced by your last response to a post of mine; which, by the way, had nothing to do with the topic that was at hand. I am over it. Just hope the WIAA remedied the issue. That's all. 

I felt it was an appropriate thing to add to the WIAA wish list. Still feel that way. I'm just following the topic of the thread. Follow suit, if you can.

You seem very preoccupied with my posts. I'm flattered. My last post had nothing to do with lawyers. YOU brought that crap up. YOU resurected that. Just a convenient coincidence that LG started a thread regarding sort of a WIAA wish list. This was my wish. Yours?

So, you're against the WIAA creating a better appeal system? That's all I'm hoping for. Or, maybe we should have lawyers wrestle the matches for the wrestlers, instead.

Sorry you're sick my posts. Please refrain from reading my posts. Pretty simple, for most.

[bigoil]

I was unaware if the WIAA established a documented appeal process for litigious/over-the-top parents. If not, that's my first request of the WrestleCzar.

....you keep bringing issues like this up.

When do you plan to drop it?  I, for one, am sick of seeing you reference this topic ad nauseam.

Hey, do you have the matrix for the starting weight at Team State?

[downtown]

Every time this comes up people really try to out think themselves with this.  Here is the easiest way to do the state tournament series.

Have 3 equal divisions.  Roughly 338 teams currently.  Divide by 3 gives you 112 teams per division.  Stop making the wrestling community looks ridiculous to non wrestling people on why we have divisions with different numbers of teams and qualifiers.  We look stupid having to explain this!

Week 1 of the tournament series.  "Sectionals"  have 8 sectionals with 14 teams per sectional for all three divisions.  Easy and has uniformity.  Seed all 14 participants in each weight class.  Seeding meeting wont take longer than 45 minutes I guarantee it, if you release the preliminary seeds to the coaches the night before and include records and head to head matchups.  Top 2 kids at each weight go to state.  Top 8 kids place for points.  You CAN NOT qualify for state unless you make the semi finals.  If you lose in the quarterfinals the highest you can place is 5th.  If you lose in the round of 16 you are eliminated for the day.  Look at the Badger State Invite brackets but include a possible wrestle back for second place for how its done if you cant follow.  Top 4 teams qualify for teams sectionals the following Friday night.

Week 2 of the tournament series.  "Team Sectionals"  Get away from having teams sectionals on a Tuesday night.  Plain and simple it sucks.  Teams have to drive a long ways to get there and kids aren't very excited on having one day of practice to get their weight down.  Having the top 4 teams from sectionals gets for sure the top 4 dual teams a chance to advance to the state team tournament.  Have this on a Friday night with semi finals at 5:30 and finals following.  Also have the two losing teams wrestle for 3rd place.  More fans sticking around to watch will create a better environment.  Plus on a Friday night it will increase the excitement from kids talking about it in school which will likely increase the chances of their friends coming to watch.  Kids and casual fans rarely travel on a Tuesday night and almost never on a Saturday.  Plus the kids get a weekend off before individual state.

Week 3 of the tournament series.  "Individual state"  3 divisions with each one having 16 man brackets with double elimination.  It can be done.  Our tournament is 3 days long and could easily fit another 2 mats on the Kohl Center floor for Thursday and Friday morning sessions.  No reason to not have double elimination.  Again, another dumb thing I have to explain to casual fans each year on how some kids don't get a second match and why some divisions get byes first round.  So stupid.

Week 4 of the tournament series.  "Team state"  3 divisions with each division having 8 teams qualify for the state teams tournament.  Create the excitement with having new teams qualifying for the tournament like D 1 has each year.  Instead of the same 4-5 same teams each year in D2 and D3.  Ask Prairie Du Chien what it means to them on being there this year. 

Lastly on how to seed the state tournament.  Last year state champ 100 points, second 90 points, third 80 points, fourth 70 points, fifth 60 points, sixth 50 points, qualifier 40 points, sectional third place 30 points.  Then add up the wins they have this year and combine them.  That is your seeds.  A defending state champ with only 8 wins will always be seeded above an undefeated kid who was a state qualifier the year before as it should be.

[MNbadger]

This is exactly what we have been doing inMN for years.  In have posted this repeatedly.
8 Sections for each division (divisions roughly equal numbers)
Weekend I Section Team Duals (We do a pigtail on Wednesday) Friday three rounds
Section champs go to state (8 team state bracket)
Weekend II Section Individual Tournament (Friday/Saturday).  This could be done in one day, some do.
Top two per weight go to state (16 man state bracket)
Weekend III "State"
Thursday Team Dual Championships
Friday/Saturday Individual Championships
We do not yet have double elimination but we are working on it.
I also believe this would help diminish the number of skinny weight brackets in your present regionals.

Every time this comes up people really try to out think themselves with this.  Here is the easiest way to do the state tournament series.

Have 3 equal divisions.  Roughly 338 teams currently.  Divide by 3 gives you 112 teams per division.  Stop making the wrestling community looks ridiculous to non wrestling people on why we have divisions with different numbers of teams and qualifiers.  We look stupid having to explain this!

Week 1 of the tournament series.  "Sectionals"  have 8 sectionals with 14 teams per sectional for all three divisions.  Easy and has uniformity.  Seed all 14 participants in each weight class.  Seeding meeting wont take longer than 45 minutes I guarantee it, if you release the preliminary seeds to the coaches the night before and include records and head to head matchups.  Top 2 kids at each weight go to state.  Top 8 kids place for points.  You CAN NOT qualify for state unless you make the semi finals.  If you lose in the quarterfinals the highest you can place is 5th.  If you lose in the round of 16 you are eliminated for the day.  Look at the Badger State Invite brackets but include a possible wrestle back for second place for how its done if you cant follow.  Top 4 teams qualify for teams sectionals the following Friday night.

Week 2 of the tournament series.  "Team Sectionals"  Get away from having teams sectionals on a Tuesday night.  Plain and simple it sucks.  Teams have to drive a long ways to get there and kids aren't very excited on having one day of practice to get their weight down.  Having the top 4 teams from sectionals gets for sure the top 4 dual teams a chance to advance to the state team tournament.  Have this on a Friday night with semi finals at 5:30 and finals following.  Also have the two losing teams wrestle for 3rd place.  More fans sticking around to watch will create a better environment.  Plus on a Friday night it will increase the excitement from kids talking about it in school which will likely increase the chances of their friends coming to watch.  Kids and casual fans rarely travel on a Tuesday night and almost never on a Saturday.  Plus the kids get a weekend off before individual state.

Week 3 of the tournament series.  "Individual state"  3 divisions with each one having 16 man brackets with double elimination.  It can be done.  Our tournament is 3 days long and could easily fit another 2 mats on the Kohl Center floor for Thursday and Friday morning sessions.  No reason to not have double elimination.  Again, another dumb thing I have to explain to casual fans each year on how some kids don't get a second match and why some divisions get byes first round.  So stupid.

Week 4 of the tournament series.  "Team state"  3 divisions with each division having 8 teams qualify for the state teams tournament.  Create the excitement with having new teams qualifying for the tournament like D 1 has each year.  Instead of the same 4-5 same teams each year in D2 and D3.  Ask Prairie Du Chien what it means to them on being there this year. 

Lastly on how to seed the state tournament.  Last year state champ 100 points, second 90 points, third 80 points, fourth 70 points, fifth 60 points, sixth 50 points, qualifier 40 points, sectional third place 30 points.  Then add up the wins they have this year and combine them.  That is your seeds.  A defending state champ with only 8 wins will always be seeded above an undefeated kid who was a state qualifier the year before as it should be.

[MNbadger]

Seriously, if anyone wants to come and watch our section tourney and/or the MN state tourney, I'll host.
Simple, fair, fun for wrestlers and fans.

[whatever]

I was unaware if the WIAA established a documented appeal process for litigious/over-the-top parents. If not, that's my first request of the WrestleCzar.

....you keep bringing issues like this up.

When do you plan to drop it?  I, for one, am sick of seeing you reference this topic ad nauseam.

Seems you've held on very well, also, as evidenced by your last response to a post of mine; which, by the way, had nothing to do with the topic that was at hand. I am over it. Just hope the WIAA remedied the issue. That's all. 

I felt it was an appropriate thing to add to the WIAA wish list. Still feel that way. I'm just following the topic of the thread. Follow suit, if you can.

You seem very preoccupied with my posts. I'm flattered. My last post had nothing to do with lawyers. YOU brought that crap up. YOU resurected that. Just a convenient coincidence that LG started a thread regarding sort of a WIAA wish list. This was my wish. Yours?

So, you're against the WIAA creating a better appeal system? That's all I'm hoping for. Or, maybe we should have lawyers wrestle the matches for the wrestlers, instead.

Sorry you're sick my posts. Please refrain from reading my posts. Pretty simple, for most.

Follow suit, if I can?  You want to get snarky - game on.

Preoccupied with your posts? - hardly.  More like tired of you repeating yourself incessantly on certain topics.   A lot of people had differing opinions on the Halter situation last year.  Most chose a side BEFORE they even knew all the details.  No big deal.  Problem is some posters ( read that as YOU mainly) kept repeating themselves and making the same arguments page after page after page......that got so old I just didn't even bother visiting the forum.

As for "....maybe we should have lawyers wrestle the matches...". I would say maybe you might have won a few more matches that way.

And as for ignoring your posts, I'm REALLY trying to do that.....except when a person has OVER 26,000 FREAKING POSTS ON HERE, that falls under the category "easier said then done".

[woody53]

You all can have my job !

[littleguy301]

You all can have my job !

Dang I always forget something.

9. Give woody a monster raise for the outstanding job of the state tournament! And maybe a new race car

[bigG]

That seals the deal. You're the man for the job, LG.

Woody all the way!

[bigG]

I was unaware if the WIAA established a documented appeal process for litigious/over-the-top parents. If not, that's my first request of the WrestleCzar.

....you keep bringing issues like this up.

When do you plan to drop it?  I, for one, am sick of seeing you reference this topic ad nauseam.

Seems you've held on very well, also, as evidenced by your last response to a post of mine; which, by the way, had nothing to do with the topic that was at hand. I am over it. Just hope the WIAA remedied the issue. That's all. 

I felt it was an appropriate thing to add to the WIAA wish list. Still feel that way. I'm just following the topic of the thread. Follow suit, if you can.

You seem very preoccupied with my posts. I'm flattered. My last post had nothing to do with lawyers. YOU brought that crap up. YOU resurected that. Just a convenient coincidence that LG started a thread regarding sort of a WIAA wish list. This was my wish. Yours?

So, you're against the WIAA creating a better appeal system? That's all I'm hoping for. Or, maybe we should have lawyers wrestle the matches for the wrestlers, instead.

Sorry you're sick my posts. Please refrain from reading my posts. Pretty simple, for most.

Follow suit, if I can?  You want to get snarky - game on.

Preoccupied with your posts? - hardly.  More like tired of you repeating yourself incessantly on certain topics.   A lot of people had differing opinions on the Halter situation last year.  Most chose a side BEFORE they even knew all the details.  No big deal.  Problem is some posters ( read that as YOU mainly) kept repeating themselves and making the same arguments page after page after page......that got so old I just didn't even bother visiting the forum.

As for "....maybe we should have lawyers wrestle the matches...". I would say maybe you might have won a few more matches that way.

And as for ignoring your posts, I'm REALLY trying to do that.....except when a person has OVER 26,000 FREAKING POSTS ON HERE, that falls under the category "easier said then done".

Nobody said you had to read even one of my posts. I'm not snarking you; but the whole lawyer up thing. I've always respected what you've had to say. So, we differ on this, past tense, situation. Sorry about that. I agreed to disagree a long time ago. I just like to throw it in there for comic relief. Some feel there's humor to be harvested. Not you. Again, so sorry. Please ignore.