Are performance enhancing supplements like C4 ruining High School Wrestling?

[bigG]

I'm not the de facto, nor any other type, of legal expert save for 17 years experience in things jail/court/statute related. I've just spent a lot of time in jail and court dealing with statutes. Expert is a big word. Way beyond my knowledge.

Not a mental health expert, either. But to say that prescribed meds can't be added to this same problem/discussion is ignorant. "Here we go again." Especially a prescribed med with heavy stimulant properties. There is also no need to have fun at the expense of those with this or that disorder. People who deal with it have enough on their plates as it is. No need to perpetuate a stereotype. Of course, the poster probably thought the stereotype was the disorder, and didn't know any better. Whatever!

No need to be angry we didn't side on the silly court case. I still feel it was superfluous, and you obviously don't. You were there, I wasn't. YOU are the expert du jure.

[SayHey42]

I'm not the de facto, nor any other type, of legal expert save for 17 years experience in things jail/court/statute related. I've just spent a lot of time in jail and court dealing with statutes. Expert is a big word. Way beyond my knowledge.

Not a mental health expert, either. But to say that prescribed meds can't be added to this same problem/discussion is ignorant. "Here we go again." Especially a prescribed med with heavy stimulant properties. There is also no need to have fun at the expense of those with this or that disorder. People who deal with it have enough on their plates as it is. No need to perpetuate a stereotype. Of course, the poster probably thought the stereotype was the disorder, and didn't know any better. Whatever!

No need to be angry we didn't side on the silly court case. I still feel it was superfluous, and you obviously don't. You were there, I wasn't. YOU are the expert du jure.

I have ADD and I take Adderall. It calms those who have ADD/ADHD down. It doesn't jack them up, calms them so they can focus. Kids on prescription meds have zero reason to justify what they take to anyone. So while I make light of my own issue, as well as others with attention issues, you have no idea how Adderall reacts on those that need it.

People accusing kids of taking banned supplements or attributing their meds to success likely don't see how much more work they put in. Look at some of the kids at state, many look like they never seen a weight room and have a terrible diet. How many kids do you think go straight to the weight room immediately after winning a tournament, I could name a couple who will be multiple time state champs tomorrow.

Supplements are not ruining HS wrestling. Kids who are prescribed Adderall are not ruining HS wrestling. There is just a huge separation of work being done. And when hard work is combined with talent, special things happen.

[factfinder]

With the week of State I can't believe this thread has any traction???
Not one thread on State up sets?
Not a single thread on a cool back drop story of a challenging path to state?
Not a single thread on championship match up's?
Not a single thread about incoming star's or the fact that one of the best in the past 10-20 years is wrapping up this weekend?

NOT A SINGLE THREAD THAT FOR SOME REASON THE WIAA CAN NOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO SEED STATE, WHEN ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE CAN!! and on a system invented in Wisconsin.
Still no double elimination???
C4 really? I am not encouraging kids take C4 but really???

[littleguy301]

There has been a few stories about what some kids have over come to get to state.

C4 is a topic. While not encouraging the use, lots of other problems in wrestling before this.

[bigG]

I'm not the de facto, nor any other type, of legal expert save for 17 years experience in things jail/court/statute related. I've just spent a lot of time in jail and court dealing with statutes. Expert is a big word. Way beyond my knowledge.

Not a mental health expert, either. But to say that prescribed meds can't be added to this same problem/discussion is ignorant. "Here we go again." Especially a prescribed med with heavy stimulant properties. There is also no need to have fun at the expense of those with this or that disorder. People who deal with it have enough on their plates as it is. No need to perpetuate a stereotype. Of course, the poster probably thought the stereotype was the disorder, and didn't know any better. Whatever!

No need to be angry we didn't side on the silly court case. I still feel it was superfluous, and you obviously don't. You were there, I wasn't. YOU are the expert du jure.

I have ADD and I take Adderall. It calms those who have ADD/ADHD down. It doesn't jack them up, calms them so they can focus. Kids on prescription meds have zero reason to justify what they take to anyone. So while I make light of my own issue, as well as others with attention issues, you have no idea how Adderall reacts on those that need it.

People accusing kids of taking banned supplements or attributing their meds to success likely don't see how much more work they put in. Look at some of the kids at state, many look like they never seen a weight room and have a terrible diet. How many kids do you think go straight to the weight room immediately after winning a tournament, I could name a couple who will be multiple time state champs tomorrow.

Supplements are not ruining HS wrestling. Kids who are prescribed Adderall are not ruining HS wrestling. There is just a huge separation of work being done. And when hard work is combined with talent, special things happen.

I believe Adderall is not a problem to those for whom it is prescribed. The problem is when taken by those for whom it is not prescribed. Kids who are prescribed Adderall and selling it, or giving it away are a big problem in school and jails.

I don't think anything is ruining HS wrestling. HS wrestling is about as healthy as it's ever been. The Ex-Lax comment was no joke. Rubber suits, etc. But to say prescribed meds are no problem, compared to C4, is short sighted. Adderall is a commodity in jails and schools, for those who get it and don't take it for the right reason. It is an upper for those who have no need for it; and quite dangerous when taken thusly.

THAT is where the Adderall problem is. I'm sure responsible. Not everybody is.

I work with kids who take Adderall from age 4 to HS graduate. Great help for many. But when I hear lines like your last two regarding ADHD, OCD, Bipolar, Borderline Personality Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, I get a little defensive because I've dealt with many kids and adults who have had to deal with those things and the whole "tried to find a doctor who would diagnose my kid" was what set me off.

I appreciate your candor, but I feel those two lines were irresponsible as it was to say you couldn't lump prescribed meds in there. Well, no, not if everyone were SayHey responsible. Sadly, we can't rely on everyone to be as responsible as you.

But I agree. Nothing is ruining wrestling, tikes to Olympians. C$ is a little scary , Adderall is very scary when taken by folks who shouldn't take it.

[Handles II]

I have some concerns about "energy" drinks and other "supplements" particularly the "pre-workout" types that kids might mix themselves.
The maximum safe dosage of caffine in a 24 hour period for a teen is 100 mg.  One 16oz can of C4 contains 200mg of synthetic (not plant-based) caffiene (though it may contain more or less as FDA labeling for caffine is not at all strict). 

A major issue is how fast the caffiene enters the system. It's quite easy for a kid to slam an energy drink in less than a few minutes and get double the safe level of caffiene for a full 24 hour period. In our country we have about 2000 teens hospitalized each year due to caffiene overdose. Many don't die, but a handful each year do. We have been seeing an alarmingly high number of very fit athletes (wrestlers for example) who have had cardiac arrest during or shortly after matches. This was a very rare occurance even 10 years ago, but there have been several in just the past few years. There might very well be a connection.  Additionally with the mixes, a teen may feel that "more of a supplement is better" and create a mixture that they've had several times before, with no issue, but on any given day, it might be fatal.

Regarding other supplements such as "protein" shakes etc. If you read up on this stuff, you will learn that none of it is FDA regulated. It's often very high in calories and sugar content, not at all what an athlete should be consuming.
Protein "isolate" tends to mimick Estrogen in the body, which is opposite of what an athlete would want for muscle building and  repair.
Most of it is made in very unsanitary conditions (levels of rodent feces can be very high in some brands). They don't have to list their actual ingredients or amounts. There are also companies that are putting actual steroids with masking agents in their mix because that is the only way that they can actually build muscle.

Talk to your children and athletes about avoiding not only a general waste of their money, but things that can be harmful or worse. 

[Ledger]

Protein "isolate" tends to mimick Estrogen in the body, which is opposite of what an athlete would want for muscle building and  repair.

This is only true for soy protein isolate.

[DocWrestling]

Supplement use by athletes has been an issue in sports from day 1.

This is a health issue and not a sport issue.  There is no way for high school sports to enforce or monitor.

Thus it is an educational issue.  Kids are using stimulants like caffeine every day for lifting and not just for competitions.  Nothing illegal about it but my kids know I would be irate if they were doing such things.

Parenting needs to occur followed by support and education from coaches.

Caffeine is a drug.  Truth is adults and kids are living on it from coffee to soda to products like Red Bull and Monster energy drinks.  When I was younger it was No Doz.

C4 is the latest most dangerous supplement.  Schools themselves don't allow soda to be sold mainly because of sugar but they should ban caffeine products.  I predict in the future people are going to die and the government will regulate the amount of caffeine and will regulate marketing to kids.

[bigG]

I agree that it's much more an educational/health issue than a sports one. I have major concerns about "intake" in general. At cafeteria breakfast, kids area eating rice crispy treats, pop tarts and washing it down with apple juice or citrus punch. My proposal is to just put out bowls full of fruit, ample fruit. Save time, wealth and health. It seems as though certain food giants have a hold of our school bkfst/lunch programs. How healthy can you make a fruit loop bar? Our salad bar is excellent at lunch, and the kid prefer that over the entrée more than not.

It would be hard to wrestle on a school bkfst/lunch program. Empty calories/preservatives, etc. The supplements are mostly garbage, but they've always been great sellers. $ talks.

[BlueBeaver33]

I personally don't see any real problem with supplements like C4 is Highschool Wrestling. It doesn't give much more of an advantage than taking an energy drink. This would be hard to monitor and maintain as well because it's unlikely they will test for C4

[DocWrestling]

I personally don't see any real problem with supplements like C4 is Highschool Wrestling. It doesn't give much more of an advantage than taking an energy drink. This would be hard to monitor and maintain as well because it's unlikely they will test for C4

C4 would be like having two red bulls or two monster energy drinks.  There is also a banned substance in it which is similar to ephedra.  NCAA and pro athletes would be taking at a risk but no testing in high school sports.

Anyone taking this stiff is just not smart

[bigG]

I remember when ephedra was muy popular. Had a hockey kid die who took it before a game. Strong bronchial dilator. These things will always find their way into this or that sport when there is a perceived advantage, often influenced by BS advertising.

[yellowplaytpus337]

These supplements are giving kids a boost over clean wrestlers

BOGUS!! Pre-workout supplements such as C4 do nothing more than energize the user. Identical strength results can be achieved through a good work ethic and a hefty amount of dedication!!

[Pegasus66]

These supplements are giving kids a boost over clean wrestlers

BOGUS!! Pre-workout supplements such as C4 do nothing more than energize the user. Identical strength results can be achieved through a good work ethic and a hefty amount of dedication!!

They do a lot more than just energize the user....

[TomM]

C-4 is a plastic explosive.