Cheating-By top programs in the state

[1Iota]

With school choice Parents have the option of sending their kids to the school of their CHOICE.  This has changed everything, and is certainly not cheating.  I live in south east Wisconsin and the reality is that many schools in this area simply don't put any real effort into their wrestling programs.  As a Parent, if wrestling was a big part of my child's life, I would strongly consider sending him/her to a school that does.  I referenced Mukwonago in a previous thread as a district that clearly makes the wrestling program a priority.  If I lived in let's say Palmyra's district, you better believe I would ask my kid to consider Mukwonago.  I live in a district that borders Lake Geneva.  4-5 years ago they had one of the largest programs in the area.  Since HC Shane Koehl left the program has gone down hill at an alarming rate.  A few months ago I asked the Parent whose Son had recently wrestled for Badger, what is going on.  He said the Superintendent and AD could care less about wrestling.  There has been no real effort to hire a HC to build the program.  Is that where you want your kid to have to wrestle his next 4 years?

Just chiming in as an attendance officer, and one who deals with open enrollment. generally, speaking, there is, in my area, the sentiment that the parent is the best rep for the student. Should be that way. We want to empower parents. So, when I get a kid in my office looking to transfer in, I have the chat with the kid, mom, dad, guardian, whoever. I have yet to see one coming in or out that I even suspected was for sport. Bullying, truancy, etc. are usually the reasons. NEVER saw one that I even suspected athletics. Most parents aren't athletics only people. This si why districts in my area are pretty quick at signing papers for those open enrolling out, and school boards get it done quickly.

If a parent wanted their kid at school A because of their amazing program, that's the parent's choice. But, I wonder how many were lured to the school of choice by recruiting and not just by the program's success at the new school. Maybe the parent is thinking "all other things equal, this school's great at wrestling, and my kid's a dedicated wrestler."

Sorry to cast doubt on the whole "this school recruits wrestlers" thing; but, if it happens, it's few and far between, IMHO. I'd love to see some proof of it. Maybe I'm wrong.

I know a few Parents who have chosen to school choice due in great part to wrestling.  I think they considered the academics to be a wash. I don't believe any of them were recruited.  Wrestling is a big part of their child's life and they wanted them to have the best experience possible.

1Lota, you meantion PEASD.... Look at that districts school report cards. They are one of the worst academic districts in the state. The highest per student cost also. Not sure why you mentioned that district and Mukwonago with all the drama the parents of PEASD are bringing upon the residents who want that school district to dissolve. Not to mention that Mukwonago is one of the top school districts in the state. Interesting IMO you brought that district up.

I mentioned that district because I know multiple Parents who school choiced their children to Mukwonago primarily for sports, however I would agree that with the current situation they have an advantage academically as well.  Perhaps a better analogy is the district I live in.   I live in Williams Bay and it is very common for Parents in our district to choice to nearby school districts for sports.  They don't want their kids to play for a small school and prefer the athletic resources of the larger schools.  Academics is certainly not the reason as WB is one of the top schools in the State. 

[missinghome]

Wow an awful lot of interesting opinions on this topic. Here is the truth. 99% of all athletes that transfer/open enroll/ school choice (whatever you want to call it) do it for sports. Your typewriter will run out of ink before you will convince me that a student moves schools because of the great math program and just so happens to be a great wrestler and they just so happen to have a great wrestling program. WOW! how lucky is that. As I've said before I understand it and don't blame them for transferring, but lets be honest, it's for sports! And is the way they are doing it legal? Most yes, but many are a very hard NO!

[DocWrestling]

An example I'm aware of was the parents of my former wrestler who a couple years after I left the district, rented an apartment in another part of the state so their child could wrestle in that district. The mother lived there a few days per week and would travel back/forth from her actual residence while dad stayed at home and worked. The parents were not legaly separated or divorced, so therefore in this situation, in the state of Wisconsin, this would be illegal.  Keep this in mind for those who rent a place closer to their new job for the kid to live in and attend a different school, or send their child to live with Uncle Bob.

You quote rules from the DPI which is for school funding and nothing to do with WIAA as far as I know.  The WIAA has investigated many instances like this and ruled kids ineligible especially if a family maintained two residences.  I would be interested in if this was ever pointed out to the WIAA because I would have bet they would not have approved eligibility if it was truly as you described.

[DocWrestling]

Wow an awful lot of interesting opinions on this topic. Here is the truth. 99% of all athletes that transfer/open enroll/ school choice (whatever you want to call it) do it for sports. Your typewriter will run out of ink before you will convince me that a student moves schools because of the great math program and just so happens to be a great wrestler and they just so happen to have a great wrestling program. WOW! how lucky is that. As I've said before I understand it and don't blame them for transferring, but lets be honest, it's for sports! And is the way they are doing it legal? Most yes, but many are a very hard NO!

This is 100% wrong about school choice.  It is the exact opposite.  Our district likely loses well over 100 kids to school choice and gains another 100 in school choice from elementary to high school every year.  99% of them have nothing to do with sports.  They are not even athletes.  We are a large school surrounded by small schools.  Most leave for a small school setting and possibly smaller class sizes and more supervision, safety, etc.  Others transfer to the large school because it has a lot more offerings in types of academic courses, etc.  Many school choice because their parent works closer to another school and it is just more convenient.  Some only school choice for certain parts of their K-12 education.

That is what school choice allows.  You only know about the few athletes that absolutely do it for sports reasons but 99% of school choice has nothing to do with sports or even athletes. 

[Numbers]

Wow an awful lot of interesting opinions on this topic. Here is the truth. 99% of all athletes that transfer/open enroll/ school choice (whatever you want to call it) do it for sports. Your typewriter will run out of ink before you will convince me that a student moves schools because of the great math program and just so happens to be a great wrestler and they just so happen to have a great wrestling program. WOW! how lucky is that. As I've said before I understand it and don't blame them for transferring, but lets be honest, it's for sports! And is the way they are doing it legal? Most yes, but many are a very hard NO!

Kids move because parents move.  Parent gets a new job.  Parent gets divorced and move back home or to another community.

Now if you are moving to a new area and your 4th to 8th grade kids play sports, of course athletic programs offered will help decide what school district a parent moves into.

But 99% is a crazy exaggeration.

[asdfg]

Wow an awful lot of interesting opinions on this topic. Here is the truth. 99% of all athletes that transfer/open enroll/ school choice (whatever you want to call it) do it for sports. Your typewriter will run out of ink before you will convince me that a student moves schools because of the great math program and just so happens to be a great wrestler and they just so happen to have a great wrestling program. WOW! how lucky is that. As I've said before I understand it and don't blame them for transferring, but lets be honest, it's for sports! And is the way they are doing it legal? Most yes, but many are a very hard NO!

This is 100% wrong.    Before the other thread shut down, I linked an article from the Racine Journal Times.  1,420 students school choiced OUT of Racine Unified last year alone.  If athletics were the reason-Union Grove alone with their 300+ additions would be killing it every sport.  We have relative that all 3 of their kids school choice out of Racine...for academics.   Journal Times article has the Union Grove touting the new Ag dept as a reason for school choice.

Yes, kids school choice for athletics.  Yes, kids also school choice for academics, due to bullying, friendships, better IEP and special needs, new starts,  drama/music, better links to trades/ag, and a bunch more.

[allSWAL]

https://dpi.wi.gov/sites/default/files/imce/open-enrollment/pdf/17-18-leg-report.pdf

[NoFooForU]

So, who are these programs that are cheating so much?  Still haven't seen any names.  I WANT NAMES!   

[DocWrestling]

https://dpi.wi.gov/sites/default/files/imce/open-enrollment/pdf/17-18-leg-report.pdf

Great information to share and very interesting.

1) With each transfer that changes $7,000+ in state funding from one school to another.  Schools are fighting for that $7,000+ that comes with every student.  Many are realizing that to make that happen they have to invest in things that make them different.  That might be coaches and facilities.  That might mean other extracurriculars.  That might be different academic programs. 
2) Look at the data and see who is winning?  Green bay school district had a net change of -1760 in open enrollment.  LOL!  That is not 99% athletes.  Bay Port (Howard-Suamico) school district borders Green Bay district and had a net gain of +544 and AShwaubenon has +1020.  That is attracting students that likely improve your schools test numbers and also other programs like athletics.  A small district like Grantsburg has a +819.  Not sure how McFarland can have a +2,803 number?  Kaukauna has a negative number and Kimberly has a positive number.  Kaukauna is investing greatly to change that
3) 100 students to the positive and the district gets another $700,000 in funding minimum.  That can pay off investments pretty fast.

My big problem is the private schools and vouchers.  If they want state money through vouchers which is fine with I have grown to accept but still cannot figure out why they don't then have to go by the same rules and regulations that public schools do.

[NoFooForU]

https://dpi.wi.gov/sites/default/files/imce/open-enrollment/pdf/17-18-leg-report.pdf

Great information to share and very interesting.

1) With each transfer that changes $7,000+ in state funding from one school to another.  Schools are fighting for that $7,000+ that comes with every student.  Many are realizing that to make that happen they have to invest in things that make them different.  That might be coaches and facilities.  That might mean other extracurriculars.  That might be different academic programs. 
2) Look at the data and see who is winning?  Green bay school district had a net change of -1760 in open enrollment.  LOL!  That is not 99% athletes.  Bay Port (Howard-Suamico) school district borders Green Bay district and had a net gain of +544 and AShwaubenon has +1020.  That is attracting students that likely improve your schools test numbers and also other programs like athletics.  A small district like Grantsburg has a +819.  Not sure how McFarland can have a +2,803 number?  Kaukauna has a negative number and Kimberly has a positive number.  Kaukauna is investing greatly to change that
3) 100 students to the positive and the district gets another $700,000 in funding minimum.  That can pay off investments pretty fast.

My big problem is the private schools and vouchers.  If they want state money through vouchers which is fine with I have grown to accept but still cannot figure out why they don't then have to go by the same rules and regulations that public schools do.

Not sure exactly how these number are accounted for, but I do think they are K-12 grade numbers.  Not everything falls within the high school.

[DocWrestling]

They are absolutely K-12 numbers.  When discussing school choice it is about parents choice from K-12.  It is a low percentage where it is just about high school athletics.

[missinghome]

I guess you can spin my post how ever you want but I'll try it again. 99% of all "Athletes that transfer" is about sports. Not 99% of every single kid that transfers. I'm guessing 99% of all kids that transfer are about school choice not athletics. But this thread is asking about kids transferring to different schools to play sports. I'm not talking about the 100 kids that transferred total. I'm talking about the 5 10 or 15  that were Athletes. You all know what I'm talking about don't try to spin it with state aid etc. Bottom line is a lot of athletes transfer to play sports not because of the academic programs. As for "calling out schools" We all know you can't do that or this thread get dropped. It is very easy to go on track wrestling and check out any top teams wrestlers profile. Go back a few years and you will see they were not from that school. Not all but some. Again I have no problem with them doing it but don't act like you don't know it's happening for sports, because you know it is.

[tyben]

So my question would be of the kids that have open enrolled and are now wrestling, what percentage open enrolled because of wrestling versus another reason.  Also, what percentage of teams that are top 5-10 in each division, have all kids that went to grade school in that particular district.

Again, I don't have any problem with kids moving to a different school district to wrestle if that is important to them.  Just curious as to how prevalent it is with the top wrestling programs.

I hadn't read missinghome's message before I posted but it looks like we were on the same page.  I'm curious but don't have time to look at teams rosters on track and research them.

[NoFooForU]

But this thread is asking about kids transferring to different schools to play sports.

No, this thread was started by claiming that programs are cheating by recruiting...

is anyone else sick and tired of the obvious recruiting that is happening by some of the top programs in the state.  Or, do we just shrug our shoulders and let it happen.  These programs have their top volunteers that go to kids tournaments or coach at the state level.  I would love to see how these programs do with their own kids.  I do not think this is good for the overall sport or programs in the state.

It turned into a discussion about open enrollment.  I still don't see any evidence that programs are obviously recruiting.

[handsandtoes]

Great question tyben. I hope someone on here looks it up to see how many were there in grade school. Our baseball team won back to back state titles in 2017 and 2018 (Athens) and every single kid on the team was on the T ball team in kindergarten. Now that's pretty awesome if you ask me. Another interesting fact about that is I believe only 2 players had both parents go to school here. But every family was here before the kids started school.