Cheating-By top programs in the state

[1Iota]

With school choice Parents have the option of sending their kids to the school of their CHOICE.  This has changed everything, and is certainly not cheating.  I live in south east Wisconsin and the reality is that many schools in this area simply don't put any real effort into their wrestling programs.  As a Parent, if wrestling was a big part of my child's life, I would strongly consider sending him/her to a school that does.  I referenced Mukwonago in a previous thread as a district that clearly makes the wrestling program a priority.  If I lived in let's say Palmyra's district, you better believe I would ask my kid to consider Mukwonago.  I live in a district that borders Lake Geneva.  4-5 years ago they had one of the largest programs in the area.  Since HC Shane Koehl left the program has gone down hill at an alarming rate.  A few months ago I asked the Parent whose Son had recently wrestled for Badger, what is going on.  He said the Superintendent and AD could care less about wrestling.  There has been no real effort to hire a HC to build the program.  Is that where you want your kid to have to wrestle his next 4 years?

Just chiming in as an attendance officer, and one who deals with open enrollment. generally, speaking, there is, in my area, the sentiment that the parent is the best rep for the student. Should be that way. We want to empower parents. So, when I get a kid in my office looking to transfer in, I have the chat with the kid, mom, dad, guardian, whoever. I have yet to see one coming in or out that I even suspected was for sport. Bullying, truancy, etc. are usually the reasons. NEVER saw one that I even suspected athletics. Most parents aren't athletics only people. This si why districts in my area are pretty quick at signing papers for those open enrolling out, and school boards get it done quickly.

If a parent wanted their kid at school A because of their amazing program, that's the parent's choice. But, I wonder how many were lured to the school of choice by recruiting and not just by the program's success at the new school. Maybe the parent is thinking "all other things equal, this school's great at wrestling, and my kid's a dedicated wrestler."

Sorry to cast doubt on the whole "this school recruits wrestlers" thing; but, if it happens, it's few and far between, IMHO. I'd love to see some proof of it. Maybe I'm wrong.

I know a few Parents who have chosen to school choice due in great part to wrestling.  I think they considered the academics to be a wash. I don't believe any of them were recruited.  Wrestling is a big part of their child's life and they wanted them to have the best experience possible. 

[DocWrestling]

By WIAA rules, there is likely a ton of illegal activity going on with 7th and 8th graders.  Parents and students have multiple close options in a lot of areas geographically.  They are talking at football and baseball games and at wrestling tournaments.  They are sorting out what is best for their family and if they are from different districts they are comparing the positives and negatives.  This is typically how it works.  I have done more recruiting to keep kids in my district than I have recruiting kids to come to our district.

Lets all be honest that recruiting happens but it is not nefarious.  It is simply people gathering and sharing information and there is nothing wrong with that.  If you know of a coach in a sport that went and sat in the living room of an athlete then report it. Otherwise it means nothing.

Let's also admit that many transfer for sports.  Nothing wrong with that.  Lots of kids school choice and athletics would be on the lower percentage of the spectrum as to why they transferred.

Complaining on a message board is worthless.  If it really bothers you then report it to WIAA with the facts that you are unwilling to share on here.

Kids have until Day 1 of sophomore year to choose a high school and face no penalties on transferring.  Some transfer later by simply moving but I know for a fact that in those cases the WIAA greatly investigates residency, etc.

[Handles II]

Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

I knew your personal political leaning would filter into this discussion.....thank you.

I'm out on this thread it's idiotic.

BAHAHAH.

[NoFooForU]

thanks for the rules on WIAA recruiting.  And, from the sounds of it, recruiting is ok, as long as you recruit every kid at that school. 

[mhsfan2]

Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

Private schools offer Scholarships and tuition reduction for Students in need all the time not for athletes. Our Catholic School K-8 gives scholarships and tuition reduction all the time and we do not have a elite athletic program. A friend of mine who's son goes to Marquette told me about half of all the students athletes and non athletes recieve some sort of tuition reduction. These moneys come from successful and very generious alumni.

[Fabulous Falcons]

Although extremely repetitive (over the years). . . there is some good discussion in this thread.

Parents today verses 50 years ago are overzealous. My dad was a dairy farmer and made it to my junior and senior parents night, that's it. If I told him I wanted to wrestle for a neighboring school he would have laughed at me.

One thing unique about Wisconsin is we have many small school districts. . .at what point and time are we going to have serious discussion on school district consolidation in regards to taxpayers tax dollar relief?

I went to public school, but respect people who send their children to private schools. Nonetheless to create more balance Wisconsin's WIAA needs to discuss and look at adapting IHSA 1.65 multiplier on private schools for the 2020-2021 season.

[Handles II]

Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

Private schools offer Scholarships and tuition reduction for Students in need all the time not for athletes. Our Catholic School K-8 gives scholarships and tuition reduction all the time and we do not have a elite athletic program. A friend of mine who's son goes to Marquette told me about half of all the students athletes and non athletes recieve some sort of tuition reduction. These moneys come from successful and very generious alumni.

Thank you for mentioning that. Apparently some people don't believe it, or chose not to.

[bigG]

This much is true, and, for the privates, they'll have the gripe about them recruiting. I look at Aquinas in my area. Great success. I doubt their head coach, though, is chatting it up with my better wrestlers to get them there.

There are so many reasons for open enrollment. Better SPED services is one that pops up. Behavioral difficulties, beyond the scope of SPED is another. If the parents mingle and tell super wrestler that the school with the great wrestling has essentially the same everything else as not-as-good wrestling school, then it's within their rights to make the move.

I'm sure the athletic move is more exception than rule; but happens. Illegal recruiting would be hard to prove, save for the most blatant offenses. Call it in to the WIAA and let them sort it out.

Many ties, though, it's just to put that kid into, what the student and parent see as, a better environment for their needs.

That all said, private schools that accept public funding should accept students with SPED needs and accommodate as the rest of us do. If they can't do that, no $ from the taxpayer. Just my take on open enrollment. My only gripe about open enrollment. Recruiting would be near the end of my concern list.

[tyben]

I think much of this is great conversation and no matter where you sit on the subject you should try to understand the other side of it.  If you are a school that has benefited from move ins, recruiting, open enrollment or whatever, then try to understand that other schools that have been busting their tales for many years to build a program to compete for a title, whether that be a conference, regional or state title, can be frustrated to see a team they are competing against gain talented wrestlers from other areas.  When a team that has been building thinks they have caught up with another team it can be deflating to see that team your trying to catch add wrestlers from other towns.

On the other side, teams that get out of town wrestlers aren't always out looking for kids, it happens because kids want to be part of a good program.  Are these programs suppose to say they don't want the new kids?  I don't know of any programs that would turn down a good wrestler that wants to move over to their school, unless there is significant baggage that comes with that particular kid. 

It does seem like many of the better programs have wrestlers on their team that weren't part of their youth program.  I think it's pretty cool that a team like Mukwonago has a home grown lineup and it makes it easy to pull for them versus some others, but no hard feeling towards any school that has some move ins. 

On a side note, was there a school that had something along the lines of "home grown" on their team shirt?  I thought I remember reading this on a shirt and wondering if it was in response to someone they were competing against?

[MNbadger]

How is this political?!?!

Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

I knew your personal political leaning would filter into this discussion.....thank you.

I'm out on this thread it's idiotic.

[MNbadger]

Here in MN a number of years ago I think Owatonna had the "home grown" t-shirts in response to another school.  The funny thing was they have had their share of the same.

I think much of this is great conversation and no matter where you sit on the subject you should try to understand the other side of it.  If you are a school that has benefited from move ins, recruiting, open enrollment or whatever, then try to understand that other schools that have been busting their tales for many years to build a program to compete for a title, whether that be a conference, regional or state title, can be frustrated to see a team they are competing against gain talented wrestlers from other areas.  When a team that has been building thinks they have caught up with another team it can be deflating to see that team your trying to catch add wrestlers from other towns.

On the other side, teams that get out of town wrestlers aren't always out looking for kids, it happens because kids want to be part of a good program.  Are these programs suppose to say they don't want the new kids?  I don't know of any programs that would turn down a good wrestler that wants to move over to their school, unless there is significant baggage that comes with that particular kid. 

It does seem like many of the better programs have wrestlers on their team that weren't part of their youth program.  I think it's pretty cool that a team like Mukwonago has a home grown lineup and it makes it easy to pull for them versus some others, but no hard feeling towards any school that has some move ins. 

On a side note, was there a school that had something along the lines of "home grown" on their team shirt?  I thought I remember reading this on a shirt and wondering if it was in response to someone they were competing against?

[The wrestler]

Sounds like Minesota has a big problem. Why are you so worried about Wis. Fix your problem and stop responding with the same old stuff that's been said. Sorry but this is getting a little sickening. Kids transfer and wrestle Varsity reserve also. If you build it they will come to you. If this affects your school take care of the problem. If you don't have a dog in the fight who cares. The parents make the sacrifice to move and love the new School system. Also if you build it they will come. Stop beating the dead horse already.

[MNbadger]

Why so angry at me?!?  I simply responded to the question about the "home grown" shirts.  This is a discussion board.......I am not supposed to discuss?  Who are you to think you are the arbiter of who can participate?

Sounds like Minesota has a big problem. Why are you so worried about Wis. Fix your problem and stop responding with the same old stuff that's been said. Sorry but this is getting a little sickening. Kids transfer and wrestle Varsity reserve also. If you build it they will come to you. If this affects your school take care of the problem. If you don't have a dog in the fight who cares. The parents make the sacrifice to move and love the new School system. Also if you build it they will come. Stop beating the dead horse already.

[River Otter]

This has gotten just to good to leave alone. The coaches would almost NEVER recruit except for perhaps a few rare instances. After all, it is against WIAA rules. They definitely talk to people and are approached from time to time, but they know better. A good program will attract parents. Active wrestling families travel around, and they talk to a lot of different people. After a few years on the circuit, they know who's who. Parents are the tell all end all, and they are the driving force. Now, if the question is simply "Does recruiting happen?" We would be naive to say no, but it is not the coaches doing it.

[Handles II]

This much is true, and, for the privates, they'll have the gripe about them recruiting. I look at Aquinas in my area. Great success. I doubt their head coach, though, is chatting it up with my better wrestlers to get them there.

There are so many reasons for open enrollment. Better SPED services is one that pops up. Behavioral difficulties, beyond the scope of SPED is another. If the parents mingle and tell super wrestler that the school with the great wrestling has essentially the same everything else as not-as-good wrestling school, then it's within their rights to make the move.

I'm sure the athletic move is more exception than rule; but happens. Illegal recruiting would be hard to prove, save for the most blatant offenses. Call it in to the WIAA and let them sort it out.

Many ties, though, it's just to put that kid into, what the student and parent see as, a better environment for their needs.

That all said, private schools that accept public funding should accept students with SPED needs and accommodate as the rest of us do. If they can't do that, no $ from the taxpayer. Just my take on open enrollment. My only gripe about open enrollment. Recruiting would be near the end of my concern list.

One aspect to the Private schools, and an advantage that they have over Public schools in regards to "attracting" students is that they are allowed to draw from other states without the parents paying an out-of-state tuition cost, which they would have to do to attend a Public.

Thinking of Aquinas since you mentioned it, there are a number of students who attend Aquinas (and Ona Luther) and are athletes (or in other extracurriculars) that are from MN and the parents live in MN.  If those parents wanted to send their kid to Onalaska, let's say for their quality basketball team, the parents would need to pay money in the full amount of student spending at that district, while at Aquinas they may be able to get some "scholarship" money or financial aid to lower their costs. The crux of this situation is that now, private voucher schools are recieving public school money, yet there has been no changes to the rules on this issue. Playing with two separate sets of rules.  I'm not inferring that the Aquinas wrestling coach is in anyway "recruiting" kids, however it's just a simple fact that kids can be recruited to these schools for a variety of reasons even if they are from out of state and recieve financial assistance for doing so.

Lastly, from the DPI website and to perhaps clarify some things for people regarding moving their children to another school by renting or having them live with a relative, friend, or coworker that isn't Court ordered:
Under Thayer, a child is a resident of the district where he or she lives, regardless of where his or her parent lives, unless the child is there "for the sole purpose of having the privileges of the public school of the district to which he may be transferred."

Thus, a foster child placed by an agency or court is a resident of the school district in which the foster parents reside. Conversely, a child placed by her or his parents with a relative for the purpose of attending school in the district in which the relative resides is not a resident for school purposes and is not entitled to a free education in that school district.

A child whose parents are divorced or separated and who lives with each parent part of the time may be considered to be a resident of both districts and may attend either or both as a resident. There is no requirement that the child live more than 50% in one parent's district or the other.

An example I'm aware of was the parents of my former wrestler who a couple years after I left the district, rented an apartment in another part of the state so their child could wrestle in that district. The mother lived there a few days per week and would travel back/forth from her actual residence while dad stayed at home and worked. The parents were not legaly separated or divorced, so therefore in this situation, in the state of Wisconsin, this would be illegal.  Keep this in mind for those who rent a place closer to their new job for the kid to live in and attend a different school, or send their child to live with Uncle Bob.