Cheating-By top programs in the state

[ramjet]

You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

School choice and open enrollment is legal in the State of Wisconsin and unless you have something other than innuendo it's not evidence. Recruitment letters from coaches that's evidence. Other wise it's cow dung. It a personal choice and family decision whatever the reason it's there business not yours not mine not the person who started this thread.

Preach, ramjet.

Cheating means the offending school broke rules. Anyone ANYONE that knows the WIAA does not turn their back on any opportunity to punish any offending school. So you can be ticked off at me but unless you have proof that a rule has been violated stop with the unfounded accusations and cow dung innuendo...this is just a few people that cannot stand programs having success.

In some people's mind winning = cheating....

[MNbadger]

So then if recruitment is done verbally, you are good with that?

You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

School choice and open enrollment is legal in the State of Wisconsin and unless you have something other than innuendo it's not evidence. Recruitment letters from coaches that's evidence. Other wise it's cow dung. It a personal choice and family decision whatever the reason it's there business not yours not mine not the person who started this thread.

[NoFooForU]

Oh jeez.  Poking the bear, are we?

Kids go to programs with success, because they want to be successful.  That's not recruiting, that's open choice.

Coaches at successful programs DO NOT recruit.  They invest their energy, hard work, and an incredible amount of time into making the kids they have better wrestlers.  They don't go out to recruit other kids.  They don't have time and that's not their motivation.  To say anything else is insulting to the people that work so hard at doing the right thing.

[ramjet]

So then if recruitment is done verbally, you are good with that?

You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

School choice and open enrollment is legal in the State of Wisconsin and unless you have something other than innuendo it's not evidence. Recruitment letters from coaches that's evidence. Other wise it's cow dung. It a personal choice and family decision whatever the reason it's there business not yours not mine not the person who started this thread.

Stop with your ridiculous questions. For this to be going on like some are stating would mean that administrators AD and coaches would have to be complicit in committing this "cheating" violation of the rules plus it would mean the WIAA is turning their back. I find it hard to believe any school would risk the entire teams season or have their program FF all matches and wins by violating.

Would you do that MNbadger would you risk this ?
Would your AD allow to take this risk?
Would the school Principle or Administrator?

Does your school ever have kids transfer in for any variety of reasons?

Come on MNbadger are you guys cheating?

[crossface21]

Oh jeez.  Poking the bear, are we?

Kids go to programs with success, because they want to be successful.  That's not recruiting, that's open choice.

Coaches at successful programs DO NOT recruit.  They invest their energy, hard work, and an incredible amount of time into making the kids they have better wrestlers.  They don't go out to recruit other kids.  They don't have time and that's not their motivation.  To say anything else is insulting to the people that work so hard at doing the right thing.

To say no coaches at successful programs don't recruit is pretty naive. It may not happen a lot and I'm sure most programs don't do it at all because like you said, they don't need to. But to say of all the successful programs the state has that none of them recruit, that's just not being realistic. Just my opinion.

When I student taught way back when, I was at a private high school. The school had a very successful basketball program and they were openly talking about a kid visiting from another part of the state to tour the school and such. Yes, it's basketball but it'd be silly to not think it doesn't happen across other sports.

[MNbadger]

I have stated before that I don't really care that much about transfers.  My issue is with people pretending to have rules but do not enforce them.  There are individuals who defy the rules.  There is no reason to get angry and accusatory toward those who have seen recruiting.  To deny it is commonplace is simply ridiculous.  In the last few years in Mn (one just last year)there have been several coaches found to have been recruiting.  I have seen it and had wrestlers recruited in the past.  I suppose without recruitment letters it never happened......
Lastly, I find it funny we don't care about recruitment and/or open enrollment rules but we want to regulate weight management in every single wrestler. 

So then if recruitment is done verbally, you are good with that?

You can't blame a kid if he wants to be better and comes from a poor program. But to say it's all done "legal' That's not true.  Lots of "lines crossed" on this thing. One (top) program right now has a kid on the team that was there as a Freshman a different school as a Sophomore now back there as a Junior. Doesn't live in either district (never has) I know of another (top) program that the family rented a house in the district but actually live 2 hours away. I also know of 1 (top program) that has 8 kids not from there district. It's happening all over it's just becoming more noticeable now because it has trickled down to D2 and D3 programs. In D1 you just transfer schools (for the most part) in D2 and D3 you go wrestle for a different town completely. I feel bad for the kids. 99.9% never wrestle after high school anyway and now they have missed out on the best part of there lives. Where is home? Where is school pride? Who do they hang out with in the summer when they don't live where they go to school? I believe someday the majority of those kids regret transferring.

Another jealous post with zero proof of anything... please stop.

There is 100% proof with this post.

School choice and open enrollment is legal in the State of Wisconsin and unless you have something other than innuendo it's not evidence. Recruitment letters from coaches that's evidence. Other wise it's cow dung. It a personal choice and family decision whatever the reason it's there business not yours not mine not the person who started this thread.

Stop with your ridiculous questions. For this to be going on like some are stating would mean that administrators AD and coaches would have to be complicit in committing this "cheating" violation of the rules plus it would mean the WIAA is turning their back. I find it hard to believe any school would risk the entire teams season or have their program FF all matches and wins by violating.

Would you do that MNbadger would you risk this ?
Would your AD allow to take this risk?
Would the school Principle or Administrator?

Does your school ever have kids transfer in for any variety of reasons?

Come on MNbadger are you guys cheating?

[ramjet]

Weight management ? What the heck are you talking about ? I want to regulate my weight and that's what I posted 

MNBadger did you answer my questions ?

[MNbadger]

Yes, I believe I answered them.  Did you read my post?

Weight management ? What the heck are you talking about ? I want to regulate my weight and that's what I posted 

MNBadger did you answer my questions ?

[DocWrestling]

Here is the WIAA rule on recruiting.  Please look at what is acceptable. All coaches should be doing the acceptable recruiting methods even for their own kids in their own district.  Kids want to feel wanted.

WIAA rules prevent the recruitment of students for athletic reasons. The specific rule in question states: "No eligibility will be granted for a student whose residence within a school's attendance boundaries, with or without parents, or whose attendance at a school has been the result of undue influence (special consideration due to athletic ability or potential) on the part of any person, whether or not connected with the school."

It's important to note that persons not connected with the school can violate this rule, resulting in a loss of eligibility. Schools are ultimately responsible for the eligibility of all of their students and the school needs to communicate rules and pay close attention to the circumstances that bring students to the school. Obviously, public schools and private schools encourage students to enroll and this certainly can be done without violating the undue influence rule. The following gives some examples of acceptable and unacceptable practices. This list cannot be considered allinclusive, but should be helpful as an example.

Acceptable
• High school personnel visiting a middle school/elementary school to explain programs and encourage all interested students to attend.
• Inviting all interested students from a middle school/elementary school to visit.
• Providing game tickets to all interested students and/or team members from a middle school/elementary school or area youth teams.
• Providing informational pamphlets which describe the high school to all interested students at a middle level/elementary school.
• Providing tuition reduction to prospective students, based on need and/or scholastic achievement.

Unacceptable
• High school personnel visiting a middle school/elementary school sport team to encourage players to attend.
• Inviting selected students, because of athletic potential or ability, to visit.
• Providing game tickets to selected students, based on athletic potential or ability.
• Providing promotional pamphlets to selected students, based on athletic potential or ability.
• Providing tuition reduction to selected students, based wholly or in part on athletic potential or ability.
• Community or booster club member(s) contacting a potential student, because of athletic ability or potential, and encouraging attendance.
• Providing items of apparel and/or other incentives to students.

Additional Examples
• Interpretation of this provision now allows youth athletic teams to receive invitation/complimentary admission to high school sporting events and to be acknowledged or introduced at those events.
• Teams may also perform and/or scrimmage in connection with a high school event.
• Under no circumstances may a youth team be introduced, etc., at more than one contest per season.
• This interpretation provides for admission, acknowledgment and performance and/or scrimmage opportunity.
• These events may not extend or prolong the contest or periods beyond the limits provided by rule.
• Participating in the high school team's game preparations is not permitted (e.g. pregame, half-time, sidelines, locker room).
• Under no circumstances will it be considered acceptable to single out any individual youth/middle level student athlete separate from or disproportionate to the remainder of the team.

It is the responsibility of schools to contact other schools and report any possible violations of WIAA rules. The WIAA is always willing to provide rules clarifications and, where necessary, will impose sanctions on schools and programs. It is far better for schools to provide leadership and control to prevent problems than to have to deal with these issues after the fact.

[Handles II]

Thanks Doc for posting the guidlines. It most certainly doesn't require a letter from a coachor even something close to that to constitute "recruiting". Unfortunately a lot of people, including coaches, don't know this and therefore they do break the rules.

This obviously included parents who might be part of a wrestling club, who talk to a wrestler or his parents about coming over to "our" school.  The statements "he would fit perfectly in the line up" or "we could help him get better exposure than at your school" "Our coaches have connections to many college coaches."  These are all lines of communication that can constitute "recruiting". 

It's most certainly being done.

MNBadger and I (along with some of the rest of you) know of a couple programs in MN where the Head Coach was fired and/or suspended. In one case it was club members doing the recruiting. In another it was an assistant coach doing it while he was working as a clinician (ironically the assistant coach was not punished and served as interim Head Coach, and ultimately became Head Coach for the team).

I believe all of our coaches and club members need to me more aware of this.

[ramjet]

Next thing you guys will be saying there is pay to play in HS sports 

Wait for it waaait for it....

I think every child should have the choice to be part of a program or school that helps them succeed in all aspects of life. After all it's  for the children !!!!!


School choice gives them that opportunity ✊

[1Iota]

With school choice Parents have the option of sending their kids to the school of their CHOICE.  This has changed everything, and is certainly not cheating.  I live in south east Wisconsin and the reality is that many schools in this area simply don't put any real effort into their wrestling programs.  As a Parent, if wrestling was a big part of my child's life, I would strongly consider sending him/her to a school that does.  I referenced Mukwonago in a previous thread as a district that clearly makes the wrestling program a priority.  If I lived in let's say Palmyra's district, you better believe I would ask my kid to consider Mukwonago.  I live in a district that borders Lake Geneva.  4-5 years ago they had one of the largest programs in the area.  Since HC Shane Koehl left the program has gone down hill at an alarming rate.  A few months ago I asked the Parent whose Son had recently wrestled for Badger, what is going on.  He said the Superintendent and AD could care less about wrestling.  There has been no real effort to hire a HC to build the program.  Is that where you want your kid to have to wrestle his next 4 years?

[Handles II]

Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

[ramjet]

Private schools can offer "scholarships" for kids to come and play. So yeah, it happens.

I knew your personal political leaning would filter into this discussion.....thank you.

I'm out on this thread it's idiotic.

[bigG]

With school choice Parents have the option of sending their kids to the school of their CHOICE.  This has changed everything, and is certainly not cheating.  I live in south east Wisconsin and the reality is that many schools in this area simply don't put any real effort into their wrestling programs.  As a Parent, if wrestling was a big part of my child's life, I would strongly consider sending him/her to a school that does.  I referenced Mukwonago in a previous thread as a district that clearly makes the wrestling program a priority.  If I lived in let's say Palmyra's district, you better believe I would ask my kid to consider Mukwonago.  I live in a district that borders Lake Geneva.  4-5 years ago they had one of the largest programs in the area.  Since HC Shane Koehl left the program has gone down hill at an alarming rate.  A few months ago I asked the Parent whose Son had recently wrestled for Badger, what is going on.  He said the Superintendent and AD could care less about wrestling.  There has been no real effort to hire a HC to build the program.  Is that where you want your kid to have to wrestle his next 4 years?

Just chiming in as an attendance officer, and one who deals with open enrollment. generally, speaking, there is, in my area, the sentiment that the parent is the best rep for the student. Should be that way. We want to empower parents. So, when I get a kid in my office looking to transfer in, I have the chat with the kid, mom, dad, guardian, whoever. I have yet to see one coming in or out that I even suspected was for sport. Bullying, truancy, etc. are usually the reasons. NEVER saw one that I even suspected athletics. Most parents aren't athletics only people. This si why districts in my area are pretty quick at signing papers for those open enrolling out, and school boards get it done quickly.

If a parent wanted their kid at school A because of their amazing program, that's the parent's choice. But, I wonder how many were lured to the school of choice by recruiting and not just by the program's success at the new school. Maybe the parent is thinking "all other things equal, this school's great at wrestling, and my kid's a dedicated wrestler."

Sorry to cast doubt on the whole "this school recruits wrestlers" thing; but, if it happens, it's few and far between, IMHO. I'd love to see some proof of it. Maybe I'm wrong.