Reducing Weight Classes

[littleguy301]

With proper weight training over 1 YEAR time, I do believe a high school age athlete can gain maybe 10 pounds of muscle in that YEAR time frame.

gaining muscle weight isnt easy at someone said earlier it takes time, dedication and alot of good old fashion will power.

I know it can been done but it isnt for the one that just doesnt want to put in that effort.

everyone hear whether on either side of the fence has great post about this. I really cannt argue any of them.

A good program of static, circuit, explosive and endurance strength training will be needed along with a good set of cycling all of those principles into a great program.

for the coaches, lay out a 1 year plan for your athletes and set target dates for testing. I know setting up a year weight lifting and training plan is difficult but if you want the best for your athletes you need to do that. at least set up a 3 month program and go from there.

[Numbers]

With proper weight training over 1 YEAR time, I do believe a high school age athlete can gain maybe 10 pounds of muscle in that YEAR time frame.

gaining muscle weight isnt easy at someone said earlier it takes time, dedication and alot of good old fashion will power.

I know it can been done but it isnt for the one that just doesnt want to put in that effort.

everyone hear whether on either side of the fence has great post about this. I really cannt argue any of them.

A good program of static, circuit, explosive and endurance strength training will be needed along with a good set of cycling all of those principles into a great program.

for the coaches, lay out a 1 year plan for your athletes and set target dates for testing. I know setting up a year weight lifting and training plan is difficult but if you want the best for your athletes you need to do that. at least set up a 3 month program and go from there.

So if a 95 pound 15 year old is 100% committed to train year round for wrestling it can be done.

In other words, this will not be a problem for 1 in 25 light weight freshman.  The other 24, half will wrestle undersized and half will never take the mat.

[Tims]

Just wanted to make a post of kids that were naturally under 106 this year.  I hope that this doesn't get any parents upset that i used their kids.

Will start with my own.

1. Preston Spray  started season around 102 Lifts 3-4 days a week and has since the fall of 17 when he weigh 83 Pounds.
2. Shane Corrigan
3  Tyler Klein have you seen this kid?  He doesn't skip the weight room.
4. Joey Showalter
5. Chase Beckett
6. Parker Heintz
7. Ben Kaus
8. Andrew Martin
9. Jaxon Pernot
10. Kaleb Casey

I'm pretty sure Troy Dolphin was small too.  There are many many others that are small and put in the work.  But have not Fully developed as young men.  I know i have left about another 10 kids that i know are smaller than 106 and still 106 or less.

The one thing if you go back and look at these kids in track these guys have been around the same weight as each other all of their wrestling lives.  I am pretty sure the fuss right now is expanding the 106 to 110.   To be clear I was upset when they went from 103 to 106.

[bulldog]

Great list Tims. I can agree...I think if we look at 106 lb state qualifiers over the years there are going to be a good chunk who did everything to bulk up but naturally stayed small. You can force puberty. My own kid stayed small. We thought he would be 113 maybe 120 his high school career. Stayed small freshman year and then started growing. He was 145/152 his senior year.

A big chunk of people on this forum talk about cutting weight and how kids should not be doing that. But isn't "bulking up" the same thing? Lifting and protein drinks to get bigger isn't any better for a body than cutting weight...if either are done to an extreme.

[DocWrestling]

Wrestling discussions always seem to go back to about certain individuals.  It is not about individuals, it is about the sport and the teams.  Not every kid will fit the scheme of the sport every year in all sports.  Plenty of kids in other sports are not physically mature to do varsity athletics until they are juniors and seniors.

Truth is that the light guys have it better than the middle weight guys right now.  Why is nobody complaining about these individuals?

We have a 138 lb weight class and a 145 lb weight class.  There are more kids on JV's in those weight classes in this state than there are 106 lbers in the state.  If we were worried about individuals we should expand and have a 141 lb weight class also.  Why is nobody complaining about these individuals.  They are freshman and sophomores that have worked just as hard as the little guys and they are on JVs and not quitting because they are competing against kids from all 4 grades.

I have compassion for the little guys because wrestling may be there only sport but no varsity sport can be worried about freshman and sophomores.  No other sport is! That is because of puberty, strength, and size and everything being debated here.  That is why these kids are on JVs in every other sport.  Of course there are individuals that break this but they are very few and we should not be worried about individuals And just about 100% of wrestlers will fit into a weigh class by their junior year that is 110 or 113.   That list is mighty small that cannot

[wrastle63]

Wrestling discussions always seem to go back to about certain individuals.  It is not about individuals, it is about the sport and the teams.  Not every kid will fit the scheme of the sport every year in all sports.  Plenty of kids in other sports are not physically mature to do varsity athletics until they are juniors and seniors.

Truth is that the light guys have it better than the middle weight guys right now.  Why is nobody complaining about these individuals?

We have a 138 lb weight class and a 145 lb weight class.  There are more kids on JV's in those weight classes in this state than there are 106 lbers in the state.  If we were worried about individuals we should expand and have a 141 lb weight class also.  Why is nobody complaining about these individuals.  They are freshman and sophomores that have worked just as hard as the little guys and they are on JVs and not quitting because they are competing against kids from all 4 grades.

I have compassion for the little guys because wrestling may be there only sport but no varsity sport can be worried about freshman and sophomores.  No other sport is! That is because of puberty, strength, and size and everything being debated here.  That is why these kids are on JVs in every other sport.  Of course there are individuals that break this but they are very few and we should not be worried about individuals And just about 100% of wrestlers will fit into a weigh class by their junior year that is 110 or 113.   That list is mighty small that cannot

Agreed get rid of 220, make 195 be 210 and add a middle weight.

106, 113, 120, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 152, 165,175, 190, 210, HWT

[Tims]

So Doc let me ask you a question what does having the 106 pound weight class hurt and why do we need to increase it?  For the fans?  When did high school athletics become about fans?  I am on the record as saying i don't even like the 285 limit i believe it should be unlimited as it disqualifies kids from participating.  My stance on this is easy, more opportunities.  If you referring to this going back to individuals based off me using names which i'm unsure if it's that you are referencing I only posted names so Ramjet could see that the kids i listed wrestle year around and are not couch potatoes not doing what they need to do to improve or get bigger.  And i am also unsure if you recall the last time they messed around with the weight classes there was a middle weight eliminated around 130-135-140-145 became 132-138-145 and there was outrage and rightfully so.

[bulldog]

Doc...I have to respectfully disagree about wrestling being a team sport. The only reason (IMO) it is a team sport is because of the dual meet aspect. Get rid of them. There is no reason Team A is driving 30 minutes to an hour on a Thursday night in January to compete for 5 matches against Team B. That makes no sense.

If you feel we should only be concerned about what works for the majority then I would submit that the individual aspect is what the majority is interested in.  More fans show up to the INDIVIDUAL state tournament then show up to the team state tournament. That means more interest in the individual aspect of the sport. More fans show up to individual tournaments than show up to dual meets...so more interest in individual tournaments.

More interest by fans = more interest in the sports which will grow word of mouth about the sport and help grow participation. What do we hear more about a dual meet or tournament? We see more hype about the Cheesehead (great event) then about a dual meet. More noise is made regarding Oshkosh OTW and Bi-State then a dual. And more talk about certain match-ups at dual meets than about the dual itself.

The sport is about the individual primarily...no matter how much we think we want it to be about the team.

Yes...I agree "Not every kid will fit the scheme of the sport every year in all sports" but I don't see anyone trying to eliminate positions in other sports because of it.

Sure there are more kids between 138 - 145...go ahead...add another weight class...130-135-140-145 is great.

"No varsity sport can be worried about freshman and sophomores" - I don't think that is the argument. The point is that there have been some great athletes that were 106 as freshmen and sophomores who would have sat on the bench or sat out completely if not for the 106 pound weight class. Why eliminate the opportunity for them?

But why eliminate anything? What does it accomplish. Get rid of 106...will that grow the sport? Get rid 4 weight classes and drop down to 10. Does anyone believe the sport will grow by eliminating opportunities for athletes?

Solid post Tims...

[DocWrestling]

If you get rid of duals, participation numbers would plummet.   Most kids want to be part of a team concept.  Poll your team anonymously.  Have honest conversations with your team.  You take 14 kids to individual tournaments.  Every kid is their all day.  The average kid probably wrestles 3 times and gets pinned one of them against a top seed.  Wrestles 10 minutes and is gone for 12 hours by the time he is on and off bus.  More than not they miss their teammates matches.

Ask parents if they enjoy tournaments when Jimmy only wrestles for 10 minutes and the rest is just controlled chaos.

I am a wrestling junkie.  I enjoy tournaments, etc and all that is wrestling.  But I and likely all on this forum are an extreme minority.
Truth is that probably 75% of our wrestlers just want to wrestle and be done.  They want to be on a team in a team setting like a dual.  They want to be in a chair with their teammates watching their other teammate compete on the mat.  They would rather go to wrestle two duals on a Saturday morning and be home by noon.

Wrestling will always work for us diehards that could be in the gym all day.  But this is about participation numbers.  Wrestlers and their families spend more time in a gym than any other sport.  That is tough on coaches, athletes, families, and fans!

Tims,  I think 220 and 106 hurt duals.  Many cannot fill two low weights and two heavy weights.  I am from a huge D1 school and we have not had 106lber in probably 10 years and that is after heavy recruiting.  Maybe that shows my bias.  We have filled it occasionally with somebody that has never wrestled before but that does not help either.  We can often fill a heavier weight with a guy wrestling up or recruiting a football player but again we are just filling a weight class rather than putting a wrestler that deserves it.  That happens at all weight classes at times but it certainly is more common at each end of the bell curve.

I would be fine with the present weights for individual tournaments and take away 106 and 220 for duals. 

[Tims]

Doc i get what you are saying i just disagree with you.  I am sorry that you and your team have struggled getting a 106.  However teams  that can and the other 106 pounders should not be punished because you can't.  At Rapids we had 3 kids at 106 this year 2 of them naturally below the weight.  Cael benitz as a freshman was 85 pounds.  The kids are there.  We as coaches and fans of the sport have to get them in it.  Also woman's wrestling is growing leaps and bounds right now.  A lot of the female wrestlers right now fall in that 106 pound weight class. 

[GradeTough]

Doc i get what you are saying i just disagree with you.  I am sorry that you and your team have struggled getting a 106.  However teams  that can and the other 106 pounders should not be punished because you can't.  At Rapids we had 3 kids at 106 this year 2 of them naturally below the weight.  Cael benitz as a freshman was 85 pounds.  The kids are there.  We as coaches and fans of the sport have to get them in it.  Also woman's wrestling is growing leaps and bounds right now.  A lot of the female wrestlers right now fall in that 106 pound weight class.

+100 The lower weight class shouldn't be eliminated. There are kids that would have opportunities eliminated. Sorry to hear Doc has had a hard time.

[Numbers]

The 12 weight classes would be the following:

110, 118, 125, 132, 138, 145, 152, 160, 170, 190, 215, 285

The 14 weight classes as they exist now are:

106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 145, 152, 160, 170, 182, 195, 220, 285

PA did not ask me but I would prefer:
108,116,124,131,138,145,152,160,170,185?,215,285

The more this topic is discussed, the more I like what PA is doing.  My initial reaction was a small adjustment to the light weights.  I think I feel stronger now for the heavy guys.

If there is still a 215 or 220 weight class, why not change 285 to 300?

What is the reason a 189 pound kid used to wrestle a 275 pound kid but now a 220 pound kid cannot wrestle a 300 pound kid?  At that weight are you still a "kid"?

[MNbadger]

I've coached for nearly forty years.  Never have trouble getting 103 or 106ers.   Way harder finding legit 220 and 285.  Even when we do, they are really just fat to be honest.

If you get rid of duals, participation numbers would plummet.   Most kids want to be part of a team concept.  Poll your team anonymously.  Have honest conversations with your team.  You take 14 kids to individual tournaments.  Every kid is their all day.  The average kid probably wrestles 3 times and gets pinned one of them against a top seed.  Wrestles 10 minutes and is gone for 12 hours by the time he is on and off bus.  More than not they miss their teammates matches.

Ask parents if they enjoy tournaments when Jimmy only wrestles for 10 minutes and the rest is just controlled chaos.

I am a wrestling junkie.  I enjoy tournaments, etc and all that is wrestling.  But I and likely all on this forum are an extreme minority.
Truth is that probably 75% of our wrestlers just want to wrestle and be done.  They want to be on a team in a team setting like a dual.  They want to be in a chair with their teammates watching their other teammate compete on the mat.  They would rather go to wrestle two duals on a Saturday morning and be home by noon.

Wrestling will always work for us diehards that could be in the gym all day.  But this is about participation numbers.  Wrestlers and their families spend more time in a gym than any other sport.  That is tough on coaches, athletes, families, and fans!

Tims,  I think 220 and 106 hurt duals.  Many cannot fill two low weights and two heavy weights.  I am from a huge D1 school and we have not had 106lber in probably 10 years and that is after heavy recruiting.  Maybe that shows my bias.  We have filled it occasionally with somebody that has never wrestled before but that does not help either.  We can often fill a heavier weight with a guy wrestling up or recruiting a football player but again we are just filling a weight class rather than putting a wrestler that deserves it.  That happens at all weight classes at times but it certainly is more common at each end of the bell curve.

I would be fine with the present weights for individual tournaments and take away 106 and 220 for duals.

[Fish]

https://www.change.org/p/nfhs-nfhs-wrestling-weigh-classes-all-sizes-matter

I'll post this again.  Take a look.  Not everyone in Pennsylvania is happy about the proposed changes.

This is not a weight class issue, it's a participation issue!  I wrestled 103 as a freshman and 112 as a sophomore and I remember having plenty of forfeits. This is not a new issue!  I don't remember my parents generation ever suggesting eliminating the weight class!!!  Is my generation really going to be this selfish and foolish?  I'm sorry some teams can't fill the weight class but you don't eliminate the opportunity for all the other kids.  I truly believe this would decimate our numbers if it happened. So many kids would quit in middle school because they wouldn't feel they had a spot to wrestle in high school.  It seems as though some on this forum don't realize the 106/113lb freshman and sophomores GROW INTO  the lower middle weights as junior and seniors.  If they quit in MS then we will start seeing forfeits at 126, 132,138 because there won't be any kids there to grow into those weights.  I would list all the great wrestlers that started their careers at the lowest weight classes but that would take me about 20 years to finish...

[Numbers]

I've coached for nearly forty years.  Never have trouble getting 103 or 106ers.   Way harder finding legit 220 and 285.  Even when we do, they are really just fat to be honest.

If you get rid of duals, participation numbers would plummet.   Most kids want to be part of a team concept.  Poll your team anonymously.  Have honest conversations with your team.  You take 14 kids to individual tournaments.  Every kid is their all day.  The average kid probably wrestles 3 times and gets pinned one of them against a top seed.  Wrestles 10 minutes and is gone for 12 hours by the time he is on and off bus.  More than not they miss their teammates matches.

Ask parents if they enjoy tournaments when Jimmy only wrestles for 10 minutes and the rest is just controlled chaos.

I am a wrestling junkie.  I enjoy tournaments, etc and all that is wrestling.  But I and likely all on this forum are an extreme minority.
Truth is that probably 75% of our wrestlers just want to wrestle and be done.  They want to be on a team in a team setting like a dual.  They want to be in a chair with their teammates watching their other teammate compete on the mat.  They would rather go to wrestle two duals on a Saturday morning and be home by noon.

Wrestling will always work for us diehards that could be in the gym all day.  But this is about participation numbers.  Wrestlers and their families spend more time in a gym than any other sport.  That is tough on coaches, athletes, families, and fans!

Tims,  I think 220 and 106 hurt duals.  Many cannot fill two low weights and two heavy weights.  I am from a huge D1 school and we have not had 106lber in probably 10 years and that is after heavy recruiting.  Maybe that shows my bias.  We have filled it occasionally with somebody that has never wrestled before but that does not help either.  We can often fill a heavier weight with a guy wrestling up or recruiting a football player but again we are just filling a weight class rather than putting a wrestler that deserves it.  That happens at all weight classes at times but it certainly is more common at each end of the bell curve.

I would be fine with the present weights for individual tournaments and take away 106 and 220 for duals.

I am sure that adding 7th and 8th graders help.