Reducing Weight Classes

[DocWrestling]

one weight class from the upper weights and lower weights should be taken away.  The highest weight class before 285 should probably only be about 205.  215 or 220 is to high.  110 is probably pretty good as lowest weight class but I would rather see it maybe at 112.  To protect the little guys you get rid of the growth allowance and extra pounds on consecutive days and make guys wrestle that weight 50% of their matches on the season to be eligible to wrestle it in the postseason.  To many bigger kids cut down which is what makes it the worst for the little guys.

But...
1) It would be stupid if we did not have different weight classes for JV duals.  They should be lighter because JVs are usually younger which makes them smaller.  Make 106 the lowest weight class for JV duals
2) There is no reason why we can't have 112 or 113 be the lowest weight class for duals but have a 106 lb weight class for indiviudal tournaments or the state tournament series.

[DocWrestling]

If it was me....

Duals-  11 weight classes
Lightest weight class 113, heaviest weight class before 285 is 200.  That is three weight classes.  Build the other 8 in between any way you want

Individual tournaments and state- 13 weight classes
Same 11 weights as duals but add 106 and 215.

Subtract 5 lbs from every weight class for JV duals and tournament weight classes

Get rid of all growth pounds and extra pounds for consecutive days and snow days.  Must make that weight class every day you wrestle!

[DocWrestling]

Wrestling is changing.  All sports are changing.  A million reasons.

There are fewer freshman teams in the state in ALL sports.

There are fewer JV teams in the state in ALL sports.

Varsity participation numbers are declining in ALL sports.

These are all generalities that do not fit every school or every sport in your area.

8 man football is growing.

Individual wrestling is doing fine.  State tournament remains awesome
Team wrestling is struggling mightily at varsity level much less JV level.  Kids, coaches, and parents don't even want to travel to duals half the time because they are a waste of time.   Team wrestling needs a change because it is the most important to participation numbers.  90% of wrestlers know they are not going to make it to the individual state tournament but they want to be part of a team.

[Ghetto]

Data shows that the lowest weight should actually be higher than 110. At least in Wisconsin.

[padre]

Let's have the first weight class at 120 and take out 220.   Then we will be able to just sit back and watch the wrestling numbers grow.

[MNbadger]

What data shows the lowest weight should be higher than 110?
Have you looked at the CDC growth charts for male youths?  To me it shows 103 was plenty high for a starting point.

Data shows that the lowest weight should actually be higher than 110. At least in Wisconsin.

[dman]

People really think the number of weight classes has a big impact on number of kids that wrestle??  If so, than THAT is just another part of what is probably the real problem with declining numbers in our sport...and as Doc pointed out, the declining numbers in ALL sports.  To me the number one cause of decline in sports participation is the changes in society and what PARENTS teach their kids as to what is important in terms of participation in sports, or not participating in some cases.  If PARENTS are teaching their kids that being on varsity or not on varsity is what determines if you participate in a sport causes decline in numbers.  If winning or losing is what PARTENTS are teaching their kids in determining to participate in a sport, that causes a decline in numbers.  If PARENTS teach their kids that if you work hard, but don't make varsity than they shouldn't participate in a sport, that is a cause in a decline in numbers.  I could go on...point being is if we continue to point fingers at number of weight classes, number of divisions, what kids wear when competing, giving rewards to all who participate, etc., instead of looking at what is the really problem...PARENTING...then things will continue to go in the direction they are going for high school sports.

[Ghetto]

What data shows the lowest weight should be higher than 110?
Have you looked at the CDC growth charts for male youths?  To me it shows 103 was plenty high for a starting point.

Data shows that the lowest weight should actually be higher than 110. At least in Wisconsin.

Body fat weights from the past 8 years for the state of WI

[MNbadger]

I saw those posted and I respectfully disagree with your analysis of that data.  I am assuming we are recruiting (in the case of the State of Wisconsin), boys from 9th grade to 12th grade.  If you use the CDC data for US males, 103 works easily.

What data shows the lowest weight should be higher than 110?
Have you looked at the CDC growth charts for male youths?  To me it shows 103 was plenty high for a starting point.

Data shows that the lowest weight should actually be higher than 110. At least in Wisconsin.

Body fat weights from the past 8 years for the state of WI

[asdfg]

I saw those posted and I respectfully disagree with your analysis of that data.  I am assuming we are recruiting (in the case of the State of Wisconsin), boys from 9th grade to 12th grade.  If you use the CDC data for US males, 103 works easily.

What data shows the lowest weight should be higher than 110?
Have you looked at the CDC growth charts for male youths?  To me it shows 103 was plenty high for a starting point.

Data shows that the lowest weight should actually be higher than 110. At least in Wisconsin.

Body fat weights from the past 8 years for the state of WI

IF I remember correct, lots of people a year ago got on here and respectfully disagreed with Ghetto's data collection method, for alot of reasons.   But hey, he clearly thinks the lower weights should go away and strongly believes in his madness, good for him.

Unintended consequences of eliminiating bottom weights:

1)  Elite 95#-110#ers will sit out their freshman year and train with their clubs.  Reducing #'s.
2)  Elite 95#-110#ers will be on JV as the 120#ers come down to the new weight class.  Elite small kids spend their season whooping up on JV kids that never wrestled before. That stunts the progress of the elite small kid and the true JV kid.  Discourages both groups going forward.
3)  Like someone else said--in a few years you will have a gap at 120-126#.
4)  If not universal across all states-eltie kids will move out.  Happens already.
5)  Entire group of smaller kids now have yet another sport to not go into.  That newbie 100# freshman can be a very good 125-132#er in a few years.  Many will not go out now, thinking it is not even worth it.  Wrestling is a generational sport.  We need to capture every kid, cause chances are when they have children, they will wrestle.

But sure, those coaches/schools that can't fill a team, get one less forfeit.  Congrats.  If the changes occur,  I will bet that in DIV I (yes, DIV II/II may be different story), many schools that have rosters of 8-15 kids still will.  But hey, they will get one less forfeit now, and still be as unsuccesful.


Wisconsin has so many things that should be done first, and discussed on this forum to death before cutting weight classes happen.  I see very little of it going on.  But if you really want to cut weight classes, spread out the middle.

[Ghetto]

For the record, I do not think the lower weights should go away.

My "madness" seems to be a feasible idea in one of the best states for HS wrestling.

If anyone has ideas on how the data should be collected, by all means, speak up.

I've heard the CDC idea. Fire away.

[Tims]

I just wanted to throw a few comments about this.  I can tell you both of my sons were under 106 as Freshman. We even held Preston back when he was 4 for various reasons, mostly being small.  He as an 8th grader weighed 83 pounds and he should of been a Freshman.  Thankfully that extra year was the trick and he grew to be around 103 this past season naturally.  Still small and it showed even more at the end. 

A few other wrestlers who did not wrestle as Freshman because of being to small.  The Koontz boys from Point.  Aric Furseth wrestled but was tiny.

To the poster who stated that if you keep raising the lower limit it will ultimately have an effect on the 120-138 range weight classes i absolutely agree!!

We tried changing weights before to 14 which was ridiculous then all for the football player.  Had nothing to do with data.  Changing to 12 now is an over reach. I would be comfortable going to 13 again.

106
113
120
126
132
138
145
154
164
175
190
215
unlimited

[GradeTough]

Keep the lowest weights. There are kids that are that small and grow into middle weights. Get rid of the largest since it was only for football kids that aren't even coming out. Removing for small kids basically eliminates them from being able to compete.

[DocWrestling]

Ghetto did not use the CDC data.  He did one better. He used the data of the kids who actually went out for wrestling and did the fat test.  That makes complete sense.  Often it is discussed to just use math each year and have the weight classes change each year based on the kids that actually go out for wrestling and evenly distributing them.

Many of you bring up the small guys and moving up the weight class does affect them but that is 1% of all wrestlers and catering to that 1% may affect the overall sport.

I believe that many kids do just want to wrestle and be part of a team.  They have no realistic dreams of making t to state.  We need to improve the "team concept" at both varsity and JV if we want to improve numbers.  The best teams have the best numbers and they have tons of kids that could wrestle varsity somewhere else but they work had for their turn when maybe they are a senior.  They don't quit because they earn it.  There are tons of kids that are given a varsity spot at other schools and then quit. 

The sport cannot cater to the "elite" wrestlers or simply they will have nobody to wrestle.  If you are an elite wrestler probably 80% of your matches are against kids that will never make it to state and are not "elite".

Elite wrestlers at schools with no practice partners do not advance as fast unless they have a coach or club time to supplement practice.

If the sport is better because a small wrestler has to wait until he is a junior to fit a weight class then that is unfortunate but the sport has to come first.  If a kid weighs 210 and has to wrestle 275 lbers all the time then that is unfortunate but the sport has to come first.

And it only has to be unfortunate for all in team duals.  Keep 106 and 220 for individual tournaments and state tournaments.  So a freshman that weighs 100lbs is to light to wrestle 113 for 8 duals his freshman year.  I am sure he will still enjoy wrestling as he grows and he competes in individual tournaments as a freshman.

I would eliminate 106, 220, and spread out the middle weights to lose another weight class and have 11 weight classses for duals.  For individual tournaments I would keep the exact same weight classses.

[ramjet]

Want to get them bigger? Then get them in a strength and conditioning program. Make it fun. Set goals and allow the athlete to be part of those goals. Getting rid of the small guys weights does nothing but I see the premise behind the data. Everyone needs to work together and contribute. Cutting weight classes allows for better development and higher level competition puts the team back into wrestling at all divisions. JV is important as developmental tool. In the better programs the kids have to compete anyways because of numbers the better wrestler gets the varsity spot. The other wrestler knows they have to improve and get better. This is not a bad thing. If a young athlete quits because they did not make varsity then the issue is much bigger than wrestling itself. There is room for all wrestlers and instead of throwing some kids to the wolves lets develop them over time with the proper teaching and techniques. Measured development makes for better overall experience. When we train young athletes we do not start them with the heaviest equipment. We start with technique and bring them along at a pace that allows for growth and accomplishment. All of them get there at the higher level training, but it takes time patients, goals, desire, sacrifice and hard work and the proper development at a pace they as an individual can sustain.