Should the reduction in Wisconsin's HS wrestling participation be a concern

[wrastle63]

Minnesota's entire school system is designed around "JHI". That is, these schools are K-6 & 7-12. If Wisconsin were to make this work, it feels like it would require an overhaul of the entire school system.

Seems like a lot to "save wrestling" in a non-wrestling state.

Exactly that is why it won't happen anytime in the near future. Even if they want to do it as a state it can't just happen because of the entire system.

[Ghetto]

Even with JHI, Minnesota has issues with filling weights. It's not a catch-all, but it would improve kids skill levels for sure.

The ADs, because of the structure of schools in Wisconsin, see it as a major headache. It won't happen here.

[MNbadger]

You have middle schools in Wisconsin.  We did it with a junior high system as well.   JHI is no big change.  We still have a nice, well organized middle school league with a "conference" tournament.  The better 7th-8th graders make their way to the hs, the others stay at the ms.  At the end of the ms season, they are all welcome to finish the season at the hs.

[aarons23]

A couple of misconceptions about JHI in MN.  1st being not all 7-8th graders wrestle varsity.  Most stay in middles school.  I coach middle school for our school and we have 44 7th and 8th graders wrestling in the middle school and we have 5 7th and 8th graders wrestling in high school. Only 2 actually wrestle on varsity (and not full time) 3 others wrestle on jv and 1 even comes back to middle school to wrestle with us.

The second miscomcomception is that most schools here are 7-12.  Less than half are 7-12 and most of them are smalk districts like the school I attended in Crivitz Wi where all were housed in same building but still seperated by middle school and high school.  In fact the school that my kids go to is a 7th-9th. 

JHI can work in Wisconsin and could help many district with numbers and would certainly help those advanced kids in the middle school who are not getting matches now.

[Barou]

Even with JHI, Minnesota has issues with filling weights. It's not a catch-all, but it would improve kids skill levels for sure.

The ADs, because of the structure of schools in Wisconsin, see it as a major headache. It won't happen here.

Since it's a "major headache" we should leave it alone.  That's the spirit Wisconsin ADs!!!

[DocWrestling]

I am for JHI just because I think it would benefit the best wrestlers.  When I was in school it was 7-9th junior high.  Almost all 9th graders wrestled middle school with only a few going to the high school.  Same could be done with 7th and 8th graders that are advanced.

But...

I find it absolutely silly that we are talking about JHI as a solution just to help fill weight classes.  That just tells me we have too many weight classes that we think adding two more grades will help.

I want a system that fills weight classes with quality experienced wrestlers and each weight class also has a back-up in case a kid misses a match for injury, skin, family stuff, grades, suspension, etc.

Coaches I have spoken with fear JHI because they think all these parents of 7th/8th graders are going to want to wrestle HS and then they have more immature kids, more issues in dealing with more teachers and schools, etc.

Honestly I wish the NFHS would just approve a 10 weight class system and then high school associations offer both 10 and 14 weight class divisions and let teams decide what they want to be in.

[Barou]

I am for JHI just because I think it would benefit the best wrestlers.  When I was in school it was 7-9th junior high.  Almost all 9th graders wrestled middle school with only a few going to the high school.  Same could be done with 7th and 8th graders that are advanced.

But...

I find it absolutely silly that we are talking about JHI as a solution just to help fill weight classes.  That just tells me we have too many weight classes that we think adding two more grades will help.

I want a system that fills weight classes with quality experienced wrestlers and each weight class also has a back-up in case a kid misses a match for injury, skin, family stuff, grades, suspension, etc.

Coaches I have spoken with fear JHI because they think all these parents of 7th/8th graders are going to want to wrestle HS and then they have more immature kids, more issues in dealing with more teachers and schools, etc.

Honestly I wish the NFHS would just approve a 10 weight class system and then high school associations offer both 10 and 14 weight class divisions and let teams decide what they want to be in.

It will improve filling weight classes not solve it.  Personally, I'd like to see a 12 weight class system.  105, 115, then college weights.

I don't understand how coaches can have a "fear".  It's not like WI is breaking new ground here.  There is evidence based JHI in multiple states.  Have them get in touch with some Minnesota coaches or Kentucky, Dakotas, etc.

What's sad is we can't even blame the WIAA on obstructing progress because our coaches don't care enough to propose it.  While the WIAA is trying to be the pioneers for sportsmanship memos and basketball floor security would be nice if we could get them to at least vote on JHI.

[wrastle63]

I am for JHI just because I think it would benefit the best wrestlers.  When I was in school it was 7-9th junior high.  Almost all 9th graders wrestled middle school with only a few going to the high school.  Same could be done with 7th and 8th graders that are advanced.

But...

I find it absolutely silly that we are talking about JHI as a solution just to help fill weight classes.  That just tells me we have too many weight classes that we think adding two more grades will help.

I want a system that fills weight classes with quality experienced wrestlers and each weight class also has a back-up in case a kid misses a match for injury, skin, family stuff, grades, suspension, etc.

Coaches I have spoken with fear JHI because they think all these parents of 7th/8th graders are going to want to wrestle HS and then they have more immature kids, more issues in dealing with more teachers and schools, etc.

Honestly I wish the NFHS would just approve a 10 weight class system and then high school associations offer both 10 and 14 weight class divisions and let teams decide what they want to be in.

It will improve filling weight classes not solve it.  Personally, I'd like to see a 12 weight class system.  105, 115, then college weights.

I don't understand how coaches can have a "fear".  It's not like WI is breaking new ground here.  There is evidence based JHI in multiple states.  Have them get in touch with some Minnesota coaches or Kentucky, Dakotas, etc.

What's sad is we can't even blame the WIAA on obstructing progress because our coaches don't care enough to propose it.  While the WIAA is trying to be the pioneers for sportsmanship memos and basketball floor security would be nice if we could get them to at least vote on JHI.

I agree with this post! Love the 12 weight system with college weights. I don't think its as much of a coaches fear as it is ADs and WIAA won't do it. I would prefer to have JHI for me personally, but I just don't see them passing it. I think that is what most people are saying.

[imwi]

I am for JHI just because I think it would benefit the best wrestlers.  When I was in school it was 7-9th junior high.  Almost all 9th graders wrestled middle school with only a few going to the high school.  Same could be done with 7th and 8th graders that are advanced.

But...

I find it absolutely silly that we are talking about JHI as a solution just to help fill weight classes.  That just tells me we have too many weight classes that we think adding two more grades will help.

I want a system that fills weight classes with quality experienced wrestlers and each weight class also has a back-up in case a kid misses a match for injury, skin, family stuff, grades, suspension, etc.

Coaches I have spoken with fear JHI because they think all these parents of 7th/8th graders are going to want to wrestle HS and then they have more immature kids, more issues in dealing with more teachers and schools, etc.

Honestly I wish the NFHS would just approve a 10 weight class system and then high school associations offer both 10 and 14 weight class divisions and let teams decide what they want to be in.

It will improve filling weight classes not solve it.  Personally, I'd like to see a 12 weight class system.  105, 115, then college weights.

I don't understand how coaches can have a "fear".  It's not like WI is breaking new ground here.  There is evidence based JHI in multiple states.  Have them get in touch with some Minnesota coaches or Kentucky, Dakotas, etc.

What's sad is we can't even blame the WIAA on obstructing progress because our coaches don't care enough to propose it.  While the WIAA is trying to be the pioneers for sportsmanship memos and basketball floor security would be nice if we could get them to at least vote on JHI.

I agree with this post! Love the 12 weight system with college weights. I don't think its as much of a coaches fear as it is ADs and WIAA won't do it. I would prefer to have JHI for me personally, but I just don't see them passing it. I think that is what most people are saying.

12?  I thought college has 10 weight classes

[DocWrestling]

105?   I guess it is just our experience but we are a D1 school and I cannot remember the last time we had a full time 106lber much less a varsity caliber kid.  To me there are so few kids that fit this weight class and when we get to February it will be filled with guys that are cutting a ton of weight.

[bigoil]

The WIAA doesn't trust the coaches enough to bring in JHI. By going to JHI you are saying to your coach and parents that they are aware and smart enough to have the best interest of the athletes in mind. The WIAA is a rule dominated organization vs states that have JHI putting more controll in the hands of the local community and school.
My son recently has taken advantage of JHI and is enjoying being with kids of a similar skill set and maturity. I can also let you all know that past 113 pounds there are hardly any 7th graders and very few 8th graders wrestling varsity. Most of the good 7th and 8th graders bounce back and forth between MS and JV events, they may get in 3-5 Varsity matches all season, but for the rare mature kid it removes the glass ceiling.
JHI is a much better solution then the unorganized MS league that most states run, and I believe this is where WI is losing a ton of wrestlers. Way to many dads running MS teams which creates political issues and limitations on coaching (daddy ball).
For WI to reverse the attrition rate in all sports the local community's need to take the lead and put the WIAA in a supporting role versus a leadership role.
Rules can not change culture, leaders change cultures. Wisconsin needs new leadership in the WWF to save wrestling as a dominant sport.
It's working in other states with better results on and off the mat.

All nearby states are losing wrestlers, MN and IA are a very small decline in the data set I looked at but MI, IL are losing 5% more wrestlers than we are and yet, we here about all the success IL is having.

I think you are right that it is culture, but I don't think it is the WWF but rather a way of life and even then, in Iowa, where the culture is better than anywhere, they are losing kids albeit only 1.2%. Culture of wrestling families/communities will trump other offerings like the mountain bike club teams as mentioned above and the Family/Community Wrestling Culture in IA and MN is stronger than WI.

IA -1.2%
MN - 1.3%
WI - 14.9%
MI - 18.6%
IL  -20.2%

2016-2017 vs 2009-2010 seasons source NFHS.

[TomM]

The WWF has over 200 clubs and rising enrollment. For the numbers of Wisconsin population, Wisconsin has the highest percent of membership of the nation I believe.

[TeamJ]

"I guess it is just our experience but we are a D1 school and I cannot remember the last time we had a full time 106lber much less a varsity caliber kid."....My 106#er will probably finish the season with 1 forfeit this whole season in dual matches.  So yes, there are areas where 106 numbers are just fine.  The one forfeit was from a team that gave 4-5 forfeits that night, so I would say that is a team issue, not weight issue.  Also, I would argue that with the right coach, that non-"varsity caliber" kid has the opportunity to get his lumps and turn into that varsity caliber kid much quicker on the varsity team then JV.

Obviously I am biased to the small wrestlers, but why eliminate one end of the bell curve of kids?  Just look at the talent in 106# this year.  Imagine telling them to go up to complete at 114# or whatever.   You would lose more kids then gain!  We want to make wrestling more open and less "cult", so why eliminate opportunities for a group of kids that honestly have trouble fitting into any other winter sport?   If truly the only way to grow the sport is to limit varsity opportunities (which will never make sense to me), then stretch out the weights where most kids are...in the middle weights.

Also-having a good 100-106# sit on JV for 1-2 years waiting for him to be big enough to compete at 114# (which is often 120-125# kids cutting down) will burn them out/disenfranchise them just as quick.

[Queene Anne]

IF you are advocating reducing the lower weights you are nuts. Of course since your kid is not a lower weight that's expected. And yes you are enjoying JHI in MN because the stud starter is out. Hence your move to that program was one of an opportunist to toss your kid in for varsity reps that you would not have seen here in the Motherland. Would you have gone to Simley otherwise? What other programs did you look at?

They brought up reducing the number of weight classes to make it more competitive.  Do you think that would raise numbers?  I think some kids quit because they don't have a spot in the lineup, but it is sad to see all the holes in most lineups around the state.     

I hate to say it but maybe switching the wrestling season to a fall/spring sport.  Idk. It's tough competing with basketball.

More kids quit because they are thrown into the varsity lineup to early because there is a spot and others don't appreciate being on varsity because they did not have to earn it.

I think kids learn quite fast to not treasure or appreciate what is not earned.  Look at youth wrestling and all the trophies and medals.  The theory that we keep giving kids things and they will want it more and stick with it is just silly.  If a kid earns one medal or trophy over a season he is going to treasure that.  If he has an award from every single tournament then none of them really mean much.  Varsity wrestling is like giving an award to everyone.

I honestly believe wrestling would have larger numbers if they had 10 varsity weight classes and then 10 different JV weight classes that skewed lighter since they should generally be younger kids.  Competitions at both levels would be so much better.

Truth is that probably 90% duals have become boring and a waste of everyone's time.  Everyone knows who is going to win the dual and everyone knows who is going to win the match.

Wrestling needs excitement and competitiveness at both varsity and JV levels  

If that was true MN would be dropping rapidly with JHI??
Better coaches is and always will be the answer

[madeyson]

Ya - let's reduce the lower weights, they aren't any good. Will someone please call David Taylor and let him know that the 106 pound weight class doesn't really matter?

Look at the #1 wrestler in D1 at 106 - one HECK of a wrestler. Why did he not have the success as a freshman - undersized for 106. Now as a sophomore he is a right sized 106 pounder. So let's start at 115 so this kid wouldn't even have a chance to be competitive at the varsity level until he is a junior? Sorry - that is CRAZY - one of the benefits of this sport is that even the smaller guys can compete.

Yes - my wrestler falls into the smaller range so I may be biased.