Best Club

[padre]

Quote from: leg turk on Today at 10:07:47 AM
all kidding aside, lets just all admit, if you want to be a state champion, you need to join a club!

Not true at all.......speaking from experience.


Not even close to true, and I also am speaking from experience!!! I can sight many examples

Can you give many examples from the last 5 years?

Depends on what you mean by "club" kid. My three sons go to 4-5 preseason practices at World Gold every year...not sure if it makes or breaks them but gets the season started.

One was a state champ...one a placewinner and I have expectations the last will fall somewhere in there. They were lucky enough to have good partners in our own club.  Foose falls even more into that category as their own club was as good as going anywhere.

[wrastle63]

2017 state D1 championship matches
106 aviators/Xfactor vs Advanced/Ringers
113 Advanced vs world gold
120 AWA vs Advanced
126 Ringers vs Aviators
132 Advanced vs AWA
138 Crass vs Advanced
145 Advanced vs LAW
152 AWA vs higher level
160 Advanced vs no club
170 Xfactor vs AWA
182 Advanced vs used be Advanced
195 combat vs AWA
220 Ringers vs no club
Hwt kangaroo vs AWA
Also the 2 no clubs doesn't mean they don't train at a club it's just not listed. So I can't say if they do or don't.

D2 and D3?

[wrastle63]

2017 state D1 championship matches
106 aviators/Xfactor vs Advanced/Ringers
113 Advanced vs world gold
120 AWA vs Advanced
126 Ringers vs Aviators
132 Advanced vs AWA
138 Crass vs Advanced
145 Advanced vs LAW
152 AWA vs higher level
160 Advanced vs no club
170 Xfactor vs AWA
182 Advanced vs used be Advanced
195 combat vs AWA
220 Ringers vs no club
Hwt kangaroo vs AWA
Also the 2 no clubs doesn't mean they don't train at a club it's just not listed. So I can't say if they do or don't.

D2 and D3?
Lol dude give me a chance I am in meetings and trying to get data. Gheeez!!!

Lol just curious. Take your time.

[aarons23]

2017 state D1 championship matches
106 aviators/Xfactor vs Advanced/Ringers
113 Advanced vs world gold
120 AWA vs Advanced
126 Ringers vs Aviators
132 Advanced vs AWA
138 Crass vs Advanced
145 Advanced vs LAW
152 AWA vs higher level
160 Advanced vs no club
170 Xfactor vs AWA
182 Advanced vs used be Advanced
195 combat vs AWA
220 Ringers vs no club
Hwt kangaroo vs AWA
Also the 2 no clubs doesn't mean they don't train at a club it's just not listed. So I can't say if they do or don't.

D2 and D3?
Lol dude give me a chance I am in meetings and trying to get data. Gheeez!!!

Lol just curious. Take your time.

Come on man...we don't have time for your meeting excuse...just get it done.

[wrastle63]

A better way to settle this might be to have a Club team dual meet tournament.  It can be called the W Cup!  This also might be a another option to the junior duals; less travel, less expense but still getting in some more freestyle and greco matches.

I like your thinking. Settle it on the mat.

[Ino]

Quote from: leg turk on Today at 10:07:47 AM
all kidding aside, lets just all admit, if you want to be a state champion, you need to join a club!

Not true at all.......speaking from experience.


Not even close to true, and I also am speaking from experience!!! I can sight many examples

Can you give many examples from the last 5 years?

Off the top of my head:
Colin Baine - Wausau West HS- 2x D1 champ '12 & '13 - Never wrestled freestyle/greco
Tyler Schmidt - Merrill HS - 2x D1 Champ '13 & '14 - If you don't count Northern Exposure for Greco as a club
Mason Reinhardt - Merrill HS - D1 champ '15 - If you don't count Northern Exposure for Greco as a club

[GradeTough]

I like the idea of having an inter-State Wrestling School dual meet tournament. What a great event that would be? Great way to showcase the talent in the State to everyone from a dual perspective. I know there are dual meet tournaments during the Folkstyle season but not during the Freestyle/Greco season. Wasn't this organized years ago? I remember seeing videos on the old BadgerStateWrestling site between Ringers and AWA. Whatever happened to that?

[Ivan Stankowski]

Quote from: leg turk on Today at 10:07:47 AM
all kidding aside, lets just all admit, if you want to be a state champion, you need to join a club!

Not true at all.......speaking from experience.


Not even close to true, and I also am speaking from experience!!! I can sight many examples

Can you give many examples from the last 5 years?

Off the top of my head:
Colin Baine - Wausau West HS- 2x D1 champ '12 & '13 - Never wrestled freestyle/greco
Tyler Schmidt - Merrill HS - 2x D1 Champ '13 & '14 - If you don't count Northern Exposure for Greco as a club
Mason Reinhardt - Merrill HS - D1 champ '15 - If you don't count Northern Exposure for Greco as a club

I personally would count Northern Exposure, it's great coaching and more mat time.

Not a club, doesn't cost, you don't have to spend 1000 of dollars

[wrastle63]

2017 D2 state championship matches.
106 Xfactor vs PinNicle
113 no club vs Xfactor
120 Xfactor vs no info
126 combat vs AWA
132 PinNicle vs Advanced
138 aviators/Xfactor vs combat
145 no club vs Xfactor
152 law vs no club
160 no club vs kangaroo
170 no club vs title town
182 no vs no
195 no vs no
220 law vs no
Hwt title town vs no

I'm guessing D3 will be similar. So we can conclude you obviously don't have to be part of a club to be a champ. I'm sure it obviously would help.

[bigG]

No prerequisite for greatness. I sure have seen some good wrestlers work their way to becoming great wrestlers through clubs, though. I doubt they spent thousands; though the travel can be prohibitive. Then again, many of those clubs offer more travel and opportunity to wrestle the best. The higher competition bar you set, the better you'll be.

[nutman]

Here are the variables with clubs:

1) Athletes and families willing to pay for extra instruction (i.e. - self-motivation and family support)
2) Regional Area for stud partners (i.e. - Iron Sharpens Iron)
3) Variable Techniques (i.e. - More tools in the tool box)
4) Since it is a business year-round training (i.e. - Freestyle and Greco  -which statistically shows a common variable in NCAA All-Americans)
5) Location (How many champs per 1,000 wrestlers within 100 square miles)
6) Confidence and attitude gained from being around other successful athletes

I think you will find they are all pretty good around the state when considering the variables.

Non-Club Successful Competitors-  Dedication, Brains, Athletics, Strength, and Muscle:Mass Ratio, and good partners in the room who may or may not train in a club.

It is like anything in life the more you do something and the more discipline you dedicate, the better you become.   It's like the cliche goes- Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work.  Some have the drive, talent, and family knowledge to do it on their own, while others need a personal trainer and a talented team to reach their goals.

[Razor Ramon]

2017 D2 state championship matches.
106 Xfactor vs PinNicle
113 no club vs Xfactor
120 Xfactor vs no info
126 combat vs AWA
132 PinNicle vs Advanced
138 aviators/Xfactor vs combat
145 no club vs Xfactor
152 law vs no club
160 no club vs kangaroo
170 no club vs title town
182 no vs no
195 no vs no
220 law vs no
Hwt title town vs no

I'm guessing D3 will be similar. So we can conclude you obviously don't have to be part of a club to be a champ. I'm sure it obviously would help.

Yes at D2 or D3 Not D1.
D1 clearly shows you need to be in a club, and the D2 & D3 numbers are up from last year and the previous year so you can see they are following the D1 trend. When I first started tracking this back in 2013 the D1 numbers were about 70% and now its 93%, and D2 was about 25% and now its about 60%. So based on projections if you have a younger wrestler at home I would say in the future it will be very unlikely to win state without attending a wrestling club. I would like to add that I feel its just as important to be part of a good MS&HS program. I also see a lot of very talented club kids that don't maintain or increase there ability's because they are not in the right HS room. To be a state finalist (especially at D1) it takes an army of support and a talented and motivated wrestler.
I think sports are coached and played on trends more then history, we will bank the trends.

Right with ya on this. As much as people want to argue with it, D2 and D3 is not even on the same level as D1, not even close. At times you may have 1 or 2 individuals in D2 and D3 who could compete for a title at D1, but that's a maybe. Like I said in my earlier post, in this day and age, the "elite" wrestlers are affiliated with a club in some way. The landscape has changed in the past 15 years, and that's not a bad thing by any means. I can only imagine what Wisconsin wrestling would have been like in the 90's if the clubs and academy's that exist now would have been there then.

[wrastle63]

2017 D2 state championship matches.
106 Xfactor vs PinNicle
113 no club vs Xfactor
120 Xfactor vs no info
126 combat vs AWA
132 PinNicle vs Advanced
138 aviators/Xfactor vs combat
145 no club vs Xfactor
152 law vs no club
160 no club vs kangaroo
170 no club vs title town
182 no vs no
195 no vs no
220 law vs no
Hwt title town vs no

I'm guessing D3 will be similar. So we can conclude you obviously don't have to be part of a club to be a champ. I'm sure it obviously would help.

Yes at D2 or D3 Not D1.
D1 clearly shows you need to be in a club, and the D2 & D3 numbers are up from last year and the previous year so you can see they are following the D1 trend. When I first started tracking this back in 2013 the D1 numbers were about 70% and now its 93%, and D2 was about 25% and now its about 60%. So based on projections if you have a younger wrestler at home I would say in the future it will be very unlikely to win state without attending a wrestling club. I would like to add that I feel its just as important to be part of a good MS&HS program. I also see a lot of very talented club kids that don't maintain or increase there ability's because they are not in the right HS room. To be a state finalist (especially at D1) it takes an army of support and a talented and motivated wrestler.
I think sports are coached and played on trends more then history, we will bank the trends.

Right with ya on this. As much as people want to argue with it, D2 and D3 is not even on the same level as D1, not even close. At times you may have 1 or 2 individuals in D2 and D3 who could compete for a title at D1, but that's a maybe. Like I said in my earlier post, in this day and age, the "elite" wrestlers are affiliated with a club in some way. The landscape has changed in the past 15 years, and that's not a bad thing by any means. I can only imagine what Wisconsin wrestling would have been like in the 90's if the clubs and academy's that exist now would have been there then.

Depth of D2 and D3 are not the same as D1 but let's be real there is competition. Stratford lost to D1 runner up by 5 without 3 state champs.  Ellsworth lost by 15 at the Minnesota Xmas tournament to Kaukana with tournament scoring.

[nutman]

Why would we even argue the D1 vs. D2 and D3?  Of course D1 has more depth because they have thousands of more kids in D1...duh...that's why they are D1.   Guess what, D2 better have more depth than D3.    There are years when the best kid in the state in a particular weight class might be from D2 or D3.     There have been a handful of times when the best team in the state is from D3...that's what makes it historic.    The clubs in the highest populated areas better produce more results.  When a club in a less densely populated area produces wrestlers who can compete with wrestlers from the more densely populated areas, it is really an accomplishment.   That's why many of the national tournaments drive rankings because there are no divisions.  I would say D2 and D3 did their part to represent WISCONSIN at Fargo Nationals this year.  Here's a question:  At the state tournament, which division brings the most fans per wrestler?

From a youth perspective much of this argument has been settled at the LAW duals.  Each year a different club puts together a different crop of studs and is the best club THAT YEAR.  I'm sure No Fear can produce that list of the LAW Dual club places from the past 5-10 years from youth and middle school.  There are many recognizable names who participated in those duals BTW.

[bigG]

Heck, I'm just thankful for the clubs.

Thanks for advancing wrestling.