De Pere... the real story

[ramjet]

Ram - check the other thread on De Pere and some additional relevant facts are there.  In the appeal hearing, Wade Labecki stated the WIAA checked trackwrestling but looked at the team page and not each individual wrestler page.  On the Tuesday before regionals, the WIAA issued a written ruling that our young men were eligible.  This past Wednesday, Kaukauna and one other school contacted the WIAA and told them they should look at individual pages and not the team page.  That is what led the WIAA to reverse their decision on Thursday.

Our AD and coaches have taken full responsibility for the counting error.  That is not in dispute by anyone.  Personally, my issue with the WIAA is with how they handled this and the lack of any responsibility they took.

This could have been resolved before regionals even started.  They had a full week to look into this thoroughly.  Everyone assumed they had when they issues their ruling.  Then to change it after regionals?!?  Had they ruled our kids ineligible before regionals started, I could live with that decision.  Then it comes down to the argument about the punishment fitting the crime.  The problem is they did not and impacted more than just De Pere.  What about the kid who decided to lose or gain weight to avoid a De Pere wrestler at regionals or sectionals?  What about the kid who took second place at regionals?  The WIAA took away his moment to be announced as a regional champion.  What about the kid who took fifth at regionals, thought he was done for the year and then finds out the day before sectionals that he is back in the tournament?  What happens if he is overweight and now has to cut 10 pounds by today?

That is where the decision by the WIAA to reverse itself after the tournament series has started fails.  Again, had the WIAA declared them ineligible before regionals, we could have accepted it.  But the WIAA told them they could compete and then ripped it from them.

So I am clear, you are NOT blaming the the WIAA for the punishment but just that they should have done it before Regionals because they setup the kids for a hard fall?

If that's the case then I can understand your issue and that's what needs to be changed and worked towards.

But based on the other coaches statement on here it would be easy to construd that thier was some concern with the scheduling and that being the case it seems that if the proper steps had been taken at that point these young men would wrestling. That was the reason I was asking all the questions. I was trying tomnderstand the chain of events that lead up to this unfortunate situation. Plus let's face it the WIAA is NOT going to come on here and give a statement. Heck you have people threatening to file a Law suit already so they are not dumb enough to put themselves in a compromising position. Nor should they.

This is the last I will say on this; The AD failed here the coaches did to lessor degree as well the fallout punished the young men that should be wrestling today. The WIAA should have handled this in manner that might have been more concise and with swift and definite ruling. Not one of us posting on this topic that was not directly involved can do anything about what happened but any and all of us can make a difference in the future. I am sorry for the wrestlers and this terrible chain of events. But in time the disappointment and pain from this will pass. Thank you for adding first hand info to this discussion and I hope the best of luck and good in the future.

[wraslfan]

Ram,

You are off base here, the coach gave you the facts and then you have a barrage of questions.

De Pere violated the rules. Someone in their conf made them aware (fan- that is not Kaukauna). They reported it and the WIAA found them in violation but allowed them to wrestle while putting them on probation.

Now the WIAA is saying they have more information. When this came out before regionals, I clicked on track, seasons and searched De Pere. It took me 5 minutes to check (clicking on a tournament to see if this was varsity or JV).

They wrestled 8 duals (2 were on the same night which can either be 2 duals or 1 multi), they had 7 multi's besides the double dual.

There could be no new information, it was all right there. The only logical reason for probation was they counted 6&8 which violates 7&7 but not 14. That tells me they can't count to 7.

I will agree with Ram that we all agree the punishment is not appropriate and should be fought to be changed. While the punishment is misdirected, I would definitely understand had it been prior to regionals as there has been precedence (Westosha).

Thanks for the clarification. It has been stated numerous times (on this subject) that Kaukana is in some way involved...you are the first person that I saw dispute this.  This situation is bad enough without adding misinformation. I certainly don't mean to add more chaos in that regard.  The WIAA will surely not clarify anything. They will hide behind their decision and not be heard from as always. We peons do not deserve an informed explanation and God forbid anyone questions their all encompassing authority. They can't punish me in any way, so I don't have to be silent with my disgust with their decision. I would think most coaches / AD's also have to be very careful not to ruffle any feathers with the WIAA. The potential consequences aren't worth them offering an opinion...unless of course they stand behind the WIAA's decision. 

[bulldog]

There seems to be a fair amount of Kaukauna bashing. Why? The WIAA proudly states that they are "policed by their members". Is Kaukauna not a member of the WIAA? If they did report this wouldn't that be part of their responsibility? Meaning, if I as a member school notice a violation by another school is it not my responsibility to bring that violation to the attention of the WIAA? That is part of the responsibility of our society. If you see someone breaking the rules do you simply turn your head and ignore it?

If you look at the statements made, it seems De Pere had been in violation for a couple seasons. I am kind of surprised the WIAA did not go back and strip them of wins for the past 2 years. Not saying I am in favor of that just saying I could see that as being a penalty as well. 

Kudos to the coach for stepping up, making a statement and taking responsibility but it is disappointing that people are trying to make Kaukauna the scapegoat in this matter simply for doing what they are required to do as part of an organization that is self policed by its members.

By the way...I am NOT part of Kaukauna HS...

[wrestlinglife1]

Does a member of the WIAA work for the KK Schools? Yes. Do they have anything to do with KK Wrestling program? No
They were contacted by WIAA for clarification of the to rules, the reason they were hired. As long as we are all members of the WIAA, we are all under microscopes.
What happened to the DePere kids is a tragedy. They shouldn't be punished for their hard work. Period. This is on people who don't know or follow the rules.
Trust me, there are no KK kids that stand to Victor from the situation.

[bigoil]

Ram,

You are off base here, the coach gave you the facts and then you have a barrage of questions.

De Pere violated the rules. Someone in their conf made them aware (fan- that is not Kaukauna). They reported it and the WIAA found them in violation but allowed them to wrestle while putting them on probation.

Now the WIAA is saying they have more information. When this came out before regionals, I clicked on track, seasons and searched De Pere. It took me 5 minutes to check (clicking on a tournament to see if this was varsity or JV).

They wrestled 8 duals (2 were on the same night which can either be 2 duals or 1 multi), they had 7 multi's besides the double dual.

There could be no new information, it was all right there. The only logical reason for probation was they counted 6&8 which violates 7&7 but not 14. That tells me they can't count to 7.

I will agree with Ram that we all agree the punishment is not appropriate and should be fought to be changed. While the punishment is misdirected, I would definitely understand had it been prior to regionals as there has been precedence (Westosha).

Thanks for the clarification. It has been stated numerous times (on this subject) that Kaukana is in some way involved...you are the first person that I saw dispute this.  This situation is bad enough without adding misinformation. I certainly don't mean to add more chaos in that regard.  The WIAA will surely not clarify anything. They will hide behind their decision and not be heard from as always. We peons do not deserve an informed explanation and God forbid anyone questions their all encompassing authority. They can't punish me in any way, so I don't have to be silent with my disgust with their decision. I would think most coaches / AD's also have to be very careful not to ruffle any feathers with the WIAA. The potential consequences aren't worth them offering an opinion...unless of course they stand behind the WIAA's decision. 

Fan, someone in their conference initially brought it up.   Sounds like a Kaukauna and another school came in after regionals

[ChargerDad]

Getting past all the questioning of motivations for a bit..

Can anyone actually argue that the punishment fits the crime, or that those responsible for the infractions are the ones that are being punished...  obviously the coaches and AD are openly taking accountability, which takes  pirate.  The WIAA needs to be able to use some common sense and show some compassion in situations like this.  Yes, there infractions.. but the punishment handed down here is like pulling someone over for going 5mph over, and then throwing the passengers who were just riding in the back seat in jail..

[ThunderRolls]

The real problem is, just like corporate America, the guy in the suit walks away unscathed.  The guy in the suit (The AD) should be fined, suspended, and/or a plethora of other punishments should be handed down. The school board is ultimately responsible for placing the correct people in the correct position and clearly there was neglect and oversight by the AD.  The coach has stepped up and owned his mistakes.  The wrestlers punished is a huge problem - whether or not the WIAA has ruled this way previously has nothing to do with ensuring the punishment fits the crime.  The WIAA has a DUTY to uphold it's bylaws, correct. However, the WIAA needs to be reasonable in approach and needs to punish those who violated the rules (ahem, this was not the student athletes who we have clearly identified got stepped on the mat and wrestled like they were lead to do).   Punishing the student athletes is the wrong move now as it was most likely the wrong move previously.  I feel for those involved in this and for those that reported this a second time - they will have their day as well.

#FreeDePere

[wraslfan]

The Wisconsin schools that go to the Cheesehead should skip out and make another tournament stronger! I hope the out of state teams hear about this too! Get some karma going!

Where are you even from? Are you Upset because kaukauna beats up on you or something? Or are you mad that your team isn't good enough to make it in the cheesehead or something? This shouldn't be put on Kaukauna because some other school can't add.

Where are you from?...Kaukana? Why should Kaukana not be in the discussion? After all, they brought the infraction to the attention of Depere and the WIAA. They also (apparently) appealed the initial ruling as well. It would seem to me someone in Kaukana has something to gain by taking away these opportunities from Depere wrestlers. Is someone from Kaukana that otherwise would not have made the state tournament now going to? I don't know, but I see no other reason why they would be concerned with, or even know the number of matches of another school.  Or is it just that Kaukana is as pure as the wind driven snow and just could not let even the most minor infraction ruin the integrity of the sport?   

It doesn't matter where I'm from! The questions you ask me sound cocky and arrogant!  I can't stand how shady, spineless, cowards,weasels would go to lengths to ruin others lives! Kaukauna is a winning program without the suspect stuff!  I don't care if De Pere was wrong! Kaukauna and whatever the other school that told are PATHETIC! And to make it clear, I'm not talking about the kids!

My questions are just like yours! You sounded cocky and arrogant as well, so we have something in common.  I am (was) simply for the Depere kids being able to wrestle, and disagree with any adult, program or incompetent organization that argued that they should not be able to.   

[maggie]

I feel a bit like Bob Woodward from the washington post..but unlike him, I'm not going to  a thing.......and that is something that only Carl Bernstein could understand...

[Hoople]

Boycott the Cheesehead as teams and as spectators.

[maggie]

LOL...Really?..let it go, the Cheesehead Tournament is one of the best, if not they best in the country, and you want to put some type of negativety towards, NOT!   all one has to do to see how tough that tournament is, is look at how a few of the Iowa State winners from last nights finals did at the Cheesehead...NONE WON the tournament ...

[bulldog]

Boycott the Cheesehead as teams and as spectators.

There you go...penalize another team for doing what they are supposed to do as WIAA member school...self police the members. Great idea...so when another team is caught doing something against the rules everyone will be afraid to make a report because of the repercussions by the rest of the wrestling community. Kaukauna is not the bad guy in this...IF they brought the violation to the attention of the school they simply did what they should do as a member of the WIAA.

From other posts it seems DePere had been in violation of this rule for a few years. The WIAA may have been able to (or considered) strip the team of past wins because of the past violations.

[bigG]

Boycott the Cheesehead as teams and as spectators.

Good luck with that. Those who boycott know they'll be denying their kids an opportunity to wrestle the best. No other tourney in WI comes close, man. Back to reality, here.

[Andersonman1234]

Maybe enough people boycott the tournament then it won't be the elite tournament that it is!  And bulldog Kaukana and the other team strategically told the WIAA! And I do hope this shows people to mind their own business! Just PATHETIC!

Yeah isn't it just pathetic of kaukauna to follow the rules. But it's not pathetic that depere can't follow the rules hmm.

[bigG]

Boycott the Cheese. Those spots will be filled, quick.

Glad I'm not in the know enough to really comment on either program. DePere made a mistake; I don't know how the whistle was blown nor who blew it.

Hope we can all move on.