What valuable lesson are we teaching the Wrestlers of De Pere High School?

[crossface21]

On the flip side response to the thread topic: Yes, what valuable lesson are we teaching the wrestlers if they are allowed to compete even though rules were broken? This wasn't a rule that was not widely known, it's a pretty well known rule. How long has the coach been at DePere? On the surface, the more and more I think about this, them more I think the blame rests solely on the coaching staff. I think it's unrealistic to expect the AD to know the match count of all the sports especially with how much AD's have on their plate. I feel bad for the DePere wrestlers and the other wrestlers from other schools that were not able to move on to Sectionals.

As an assistant coach I don't even pay attention to how many meets we have.  It is on the coach....but c'mon...these are the employees and not the chief...they just went to the meets.

Each program is set up differently. All of the coaches on our staff know these rules, but that's just our program.  With that said, I agree the Head Coach is the one that MUST know the rules inside and out. I don't disagree that the it's terrible the kids aren't allowed to wrestle. The problem is that if they go ahead and allow these kids to wrestle, they are setting a precedent for future instances in all sports. The WIAA should never have allowed them to wrestle Regionals if they were going to disqualify them for Sectionals. What information changed from the original ruling till now? Maybe the WIAA should have been a bit more aggressive in finding out the information they needed before making an initial decision knowing the timing was literally just before Regionals?

If there is another penalty that could be enforced, what could it be? I don't know if you could propose something for the next season as I'm sure somewhere along the line there would be a team or 2 that would sacrifice next season for success in their current season. I don't know if an AD losing his job would be appropriate. I would say he/she will receive their share of grief from administrators, parents, wrestlers, and their BOE. The coach resigning or being let go might be the most acceptable form of punishment.

[padre]

On the flip side response to the thread topic: Yes, what valuable lesson are we teaching the wrestlers if they are allowed to compete even though rules were broken? This wasn't a rule that was not widely known, it's a pretty well known rule. How long has the coach been at DePere? On the surface, the more and more I think about this, them more I think the blame rests solely on the coaching staff. I think it's unrealistic to expect the AD to know the match count of all the sports especially with how much AD's have on their plate. I feel bad for the DePere wrestlers and the other wrestlers from other schools that were not able to move on to Sectionals.

As an assistant coach I don't even pay attention to how many meets we have.  It is on the coach....but c'mon...these are the employees and not the chief...they just went to the meets.

Each program is set up differently. All of the coaches on our staff know these rules, but that's just our program.  With that said, I agree the Head Coach is the one that MUST know the rules inside and out. I don't disagree that the it's terrible the kids aren't allowed to wrestle. The problem is that if they go ahead and allow these kids to wrestle, they are setting a precedent for future instances in all sports. The WIAA should never have allowed them to wrestle Regionals if they were going to disqualify them for Sectionals. What information changed from the original ruling till now? Maybe the WIAA should have been a bit more aggressive in finding out the information they needed before making an initial decision knowing the timing was literally just before Regionals?

If there is another penalty that could be enforced, what could it be? I don't know if you could propose something for the next season as I'm sure somewhere along the line there would be a team or 2 that would sacrifice next season for success in their current season. I don't know if an AD losing his job would be appropriate. I would say he/she will receive their share of grief from administrators, parents, wrestlers, and their BOE. The coach resigning or being let go might be the most acceptable form of punishment.

I don't believe teams are going to try and cheat because of this if they are allowed to wrestle.  I agree maybe a ban of losing 3-4 tournaments or something for next year is a good compromise.

[DenBosch]

The WIAA and DePere High School owe the D1 wrestling community an explanation, and an apology for:

1.) their inability to understand and comply by the rules of the game, and
2.) their inability to properly gather, report, and interpret the facts related to this violation, and
2.) their inability to establish an equitable and durable resolution prior to Regionals, and
3.) their negligence in impacting the outcome of this Regional/Sectional, and the opportunities of the athletes they are entrusted to lead.

According to the GBPG:  " The team's schedule was adjusted to clarify which events were varsity and junior varsity to put the team within the 14-meet limit for the regular season and allow it to compete at regionals.   However, eight of De Pere's sectional qualifiers are being ruled ineligible due to exceeding the 14-meet limit upon a review of the individuals' schedules towards the regular season.  The individual review of wrestlers this week by the WIAA happened after it received inquiries from other member schools regarding eligibility.

Does anyone else smell something funny with that statement?  

So......... the School "self-informed" the WIAA on February 3 that their kids had competed in too many events. They then adjusted the schedule to clarify which events were Varsity, and which were JV (Makes sense so far, right?) Do the WIAA and DePere High School honestly expect us to believe that in the following 7 days, there wasn't a single responsible person at the WIAA or DePere High School capable of determining WHICH KIDS had wrestled too many matches and were ineligible to compete in the Regional on Saturday...?  Are you kidding me?  What are we missing here?  I can pull that information in 5 minutes on Track!  The WIAA and DPHS then stood back and let these kids wrestle Regionals, take the podium, watch some competitors end their season/career, all without anyone asking WHICH WRESLTERS WERE IN VIOLATION?   Hey, let's wait and see if anyone notices, yep, that makes sense, let's wait until after they wrestle Rgionals, then it will be easier to deal with.

At an average salary of $183,330 one would hope the top 6 executives at the WIAA, would be capable of INTERPRETING AND MAKING A JUDGEMENT ON A VIOLATION AND CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR OWN RULES!

It shouldn't be necessary for the other member schools to follow up on decisions made by the highest governing body of Wisconsin High School Athletics, but what are you going to do when together the offending school and the WIAA cannot get it right?

My heart goes out to the DePere Wrestlers as they have been royally screwed by their AD, their coaches, and the WIAA.

WIAA, it's your move, get it right!

"If gold rusts, what then shall iron do?"

In my view the WIAA and the oft repeated average salaries of the WIAA leadership are of no consequence.  The rule has been followed thousands of times successfully across the entire state, including by the program in preceding years that is now in violation at this time.  The WIAA is entirely clean of any diatribe or blame, unless they change the rule to accommodate the rule breaker and negatively impact member rule followers.

Dale, with all due respect, the WIAA failed every kid, in every bracket, in which a DePere kid (in violation) wrestled last  Saturday.  The WIAA had a full week to investigate this. Once DePere self reported, it became the WIAA's sole responsibility to rule on the situation.  The facts that existed on 02/03 haven't changed, the only thing that has changed is the member schools were forced to bring forward what the WIAA chose to ignore. They are paid handsomely to govern the management of the rules they created, and they failed.  The extent to which they are compensated is (should be) commensurate with their responsibility and inherent obligation to get it right when these issues are brought to them.  They failed to act appropriately, and fully, and on a timely basis when they knew this was an issue. End of story!

[padre]

Name is Wade Labecki and email is wlabecki@wiaawi.org

[ChargerDad]

We think the WIAA is evil overlords because they act like it too often.. what happened to common sense??  Punishing these kids serves no real purpose.. Well, it served one purpose..  it taught me as a parent that I must get up to speed on the WIAA rules for all the sports my kid participates in because it appears it's the kids who are held accountable for mistakes by coaches and AD.. 

[Badgermax]

A decision was made by WIAA the week before regionals to allow depere to particapate, with agreement depere would be put on probation.  All information of scheduling and matches had been given to WIAA at this time.  There is no new information that they have received, they are just going back on their decision.

We're not questioning the rule infraction, we were already put on probation for that.  The question is how can WIAA give the ok to wrestle and now say, oops we made a mistake. 

For those who say "rules are rules" how would you feel if this was your son.  Is that what I should tell my two boys. 

The punishment doesn't fit the infraction.

[padre]

The adults made the infractions...not the kids.

If this forum is worth a hoot I thought I'd come on here and find people outraged and making calls and sending emails as we all meet on here and COULD make a difference I believed...instead I find more defending the WIAA than these kids.  Crazy!!!!  To be honest completely shocked Woody that you would think it was OK for them to go back on their decision when not one kid was the culprit. 

Do the right thing and try to get these kids able to wrestle.  You cant wait.....voices have to be spoken now.

[statman]

so who were the coaches that made a big stink to have it over ruled agian

[wraslfan]

call Wade Lubeke at the WIAA and let him know how you feel.  715-344-8580   We should not be punishing students for an adults mistake!!!

Well I understand your compassion you have allot of it. However the kids are part of program the program was punished so they were punished. Right or wrong that is how real life is. Stinks but the WIAA might have had to conclude thier investigation and that ran past Regionals?

Well stated.

How did I know you would come down on this side of the argument?

[Nobody]

Their AD has been around since at least 2000, so it isn't like this sport is new to him.

The A.D.'s Passion is BASKETBALL not wrestling.  Up until a year ago he didn't didn't know where they practiced.  Once he found out, he took there wrestling room away and made it a weight lifting room.

[wraslfan]

I know you all think the WIAA are Evil Overlords. They have the task of enforcing the the rules, regulations, and by laws, approved by the member schools. There is a process for situations like this. If a decision can not be made right away. More investigation is needed. the athletes are allowed to compete. That could, and I say could be the reason they were allowed to wrestle at Regionals.

Does the WIAA have access to phones? Email? Whatever the "process" is, it's apparently way too long. This "rules are rules" argument is convenient, but incredibly dumb IMO. The kids did what they were told, the coaches made the mistake, keep the coaches out of the tournament. There, WIAA...problem solved.

[All Blue]

Im with ya Padre....doing my small part. Besides,what are they going to do @Kaukana sectional? Have byes? That one thing in itself makes our sport look really bad!! Many schools struggle to mat 14 wrestlers during the regular season...as that thread has garnered alot of interest on this forum...but an bracket at sectionals that isnt FULL would be terrible!! Somehow get these kids on the mat! Im a rookie here and read more than type, but this cant happen to our sport.

[bigoil]

I read the 5th place finisher will move up as of now pending the meeting.

It makes no sense that there is a retraction of the decision that allowed them to wrestle in regionals.  If they would have said before regionals they couldn't wrestle, I could possibly support that despite it not being the kids fault. When this came up a week ago, I went on track and very simply counted the matches. Unless the wiaa was given false information, what changed. Again, all the information is and has been online.

[Point1223]

It's unfortunate that the kids are paying the price for the coaches mistake.

However, If coaches schedule events to fine tune their athletes and get them better. Isn't De Pere having one extra event in their schedule unfair to the other teams, who weren't able to have one more opportunity to improve because they followed the rules?

If you have a rule, and don't enforce it or have consequences, then you don't have a rule.

[padre]

It's unfortunate that the kids are paying the price for the coaches mistake.

However, If coaches schedule events to fine tune their athletes and get them better. Isn't De Pere having one extra event in their schedule unfair to the other teams, who weren't able to have one more opportunity to improve because they followed the rules?

If you have a rule, and don't enforce it or have consequences, then you don't have a rule.

They had their chance to enforce at regionals...they did not.  I wouldn't have agreed with that decision either but they did not.  I do know the coaches a bit and they would never endanger these kids from wrestling regionals...however I believe one of the co-head coaches at least does not work in the school...not an excuse but he may have trusted the scheduling.  I'm sure they are feeling 10 times sicker than everyone else but also know they are stand up guys that would take the fall.