What valuable lesson are we teaching the Wrestlers of De Pere High School?

[Dale Einerson]

The WIAA and DePere High School owe the D1 wrestling community an explanation, and an apology for:

1.) their inability to understand and comply by the rules of the game, and
2.) their inability to properly gather, report, and interpret the facts related to this violation, and
2.) their inability to establish an equitable and durable resolution prior to Regionals, and
3.) their negligence in impacting the outcome of this Regional/Sectional, and the opportunities of the athletes they are entrusted to lead.

According to the GBPG:  " The team's schedule was adjusted to clarify which events were varsity and junior varsity to put the team within the 14-meet limit for the regular season and allow it to compete at regionals.   However, eight of De Pere's sectional qualifiers are being ruled ineligible due to exceeding the 14-meet limit upon a review of the individuals' schedules towards the regular season.  The individual review of wrestlers this week by the WIAA happened after it received inquiries from other member schools regarding eligibility.

Does anyone else smell something funny with that statement? 

So......... the School "self-informed" the WIAA on February 3 that their kids had competed in too many events. They then adjusted the schedule to clarify which events were Varsity, and which were JV (Makes sense so far, right?) Do the WIAA and DePere High School honestly expect us to believe that in the following 7 days, there wasn't a single responsible person at the WIAA or DePere High School capable of determining WHICH KIDS had wrestled too many matches and were ineligible to compete in the Regional on Saturday...?  Are you kidding me?  What are we missing here?  I can pull that information in 5 minutes on Track!  The WIAA and DPHS then stood back and let these kids wrestle Regionals, take the podium, watch some competitors end their season/career, all without anyone asking WHICH WRESLTERS WERE IN VIOLATION?   Hey, let's wait and see if anyone notices, yep, that makes sense, let's wait until after they wrestle Rgionals, then it will be easier to deal with.

At an average salary of $183,330 one would hope the top 6 executives at the WIAA, would be capable of INTERPRETING AND MAKING A JUDGEMENT ON A VIOLATION AND CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR OWN RULES!

It shouldn't be necessary for the other member schools to follow up on decisions made by the highest governing body of Wisconsin High School Athletics, but what are you going to do when together the offending school and the WIAA cannot get it right?

My heart goes out to the DePere Wrestlers as they have been royally screwed by their AD, their coaches, and the WIAA.

WIAA, it's your move, get it right!

"If gold rusts, what then shall iron do?"

In my view the WIAA and the oft repeated average salaries of the WIAA leadership are of no consequence.  The rule has been followed thousands of times successfully across the entire state, including by the program in preceding years that is now in violation at this time.  The WIAA is entirely clean of any diatribe or blame, unless they change the rule to accommodate the rule breaker and negatively impact member rule followers.

[Joenlucy]

This has to be on the coach.  Coaches have to know their schedule.  Then they also have to keep track of their athletes as many might bounce between JV and varsity events so not all athletes have the same.  Just like many coaches have to adjust an athletes personal calendar if they qualify for JV state and that becomes and added event for those specific athletes.

Sure would be easier for coaches if we just went with a maximum matches limit before regionals.

Be careful what you wish for... The Minnesota coaches have often expressed their wish to simplify their match count structure and feel Wisconsin has a better system.

[ramjet]

call Wade Lubeke at the WIAA and let him know how you feel.  715-344-8580   We should not be punishing students for an adults mistake!!!

Well I understand your compassion you have allot of it. However the kids are part of program the program was punished so they were punished. Right or wrong that is how real life is. Stinks but the WIAA might have had to conclude thier investigation and that ran past Regionals?

[woody53]

call Wade Lubeke at the WIAA and let him know how you feel.  715-344-8580   We should not be punishing students for an adults mistake!!!

Well I understand your compassion you have allot of it. However the kids are part of program the program was punished so they were punished. Right or wrong that is how real life is. Stinks but the WIAA might have had to conclude thier investigation and that ran past Regionals?

Well stated.

[woody53]

Seems:

The decision was made by the WIAA when the rule was set, way back when.

Seems the WIAA said you can compete in the post season tournament, through Regionals, not the post season tournament in its entirety. And, it appears that is what has happened.

To be Technical, the Seniors on the team are not being "punished" more than any others, they are being affected the same.  It is their Senior year, which is likely more emotional and disappointing, but the same affect.  

An alternative view, the wrestlers got to participate in additional wrestling events than all others in the state through Regionals; while I see it is easy to say they are being punished, they do not get to wrestle at state, should they have qualified; there is no guarantee any individual could have made it through.

Rules are rules.  Real life says people suffer due to the decisions and actions of others on a frequent and regular basis.  There are consequences for decisions and actions, I should think this would be a terminable offense, for somebody.  Hard to believe an AD could receive lifetime pay and benefits for allowing this to happen on his/her watch...

Totally disappointing, but would be made worse of the rules were cast aside to negatively impact competitors who followed the same set of rules and somehow all but 1 program in the state got it right...

Well stated.

[MNbadger]

I don't think it can be more simple than 36 matches before sections.  What some MN coaches want (the stronger programs with bigger numbers) is to be able to sit wrestlers and use more of their back ups and still control their winning.

This has to be on the coach.  Coaches have to know their schedule.  Then they also have to keep track of their athletes as many might bounce between JV and varsity events so not all athletes have the same.  Just like many coaches have to adjust an athletes personal calendar if they qualify for JV state and that becomes and added event for those specific athletes.

Sure would be easier for coaches if we just went with a maximum matches limit before regionals.

Be careful what you wish for... The Minnesota coaches have often expressed their wish to simplify their match count structure and feel Wisconsin has a better system.

[crossface21]

On the flip side response to the thread topic: Yes, what valuable lesson are we teaching the wrestlers if they are allowed to compete even though rules were broken? This wasn't a rule that was not widely known, it's a pretty well known rule. How long has the coach been at DePere? On the surface, the more and more I think about this, them more I think the blame rests solely on the coaching staff. I think it's unrealistic to expect the AD to know the match count of all the sports especially with how much AD's have on their plate. I feel bad for the DePere wrestlers and the other wrestlers from other schools that were not able to move on to Sectionals.

[padre]

call Wade Lubeke at the WIAA and let him know how you feel.  715-344-8580   We should not be punishing students for an adults mistake!!!

I call inappropriate term6!!!!!  I cannot believe anyone of you is condoning that the wrestlers should lose their chance to go on to sectionals.  I've lost tons of respect for those of you that say rules are rules. 

If your boss was running a Ponzi scheme in your workplace and he had to go to jail would you if you didn't know about it?  Absolutely not.  How dare any of you think the kids should take the fall for this.

I don't know any of the kids personally but I do know there are some kids that work there tails off on that team.

If you are a true wrestling fan you will call that number or send an email tonight(I will do both) and plead for these kids to wrestle.

I could care less if it was a good team that would influence how my son did Saturday....I would do the same and I hope others will also.

[padre]

On the flip side response to the thread topic: Yes, what valuable lesson are we teaching the wrestlers if they are allowed to compete even though rules were broken? This wasn't a rule that was not widely known, it's a pretty well known rule. How long has the coach been at DePere? On the surface, the more and more I think about this, them more I think the blame rests solely on the coaching staff. I think it's unrealistic to expect the AD to know the match count of all the sports especially with how much AD's have on their plate. I feel bad for the DePere wrestlers and the other wrestlers from other schools that were not able to move on to Sectionals.

As an assistant coach I don't even pay attention to how many meets we have.  It is on the coach....but c'mon...these are the employees and not the chief...they just went to the meets.

[onwisconsin]

Doc,

Where did you find that rule regarding not wrestling past regionals?  I found this on the WIAA website (see below rule 3a).   Obviously, the De Pere AD and coaches are at fault, but I can't get past the WIAA allowing them to wrestle at regionals in the first place.  Texted a coach from the same conference as De Pere today and he told me De Pere had the WIAA's ruling allowing them to wrestle by February 6th.  (I was also told De Pere had some form of administrative punishment ... not sure what it was).

I just don't see how the WIAA can make a decision allowing them to compete and then 10 days later retract that.   If true, that is terribly mishandled by the WIAA.


3. RULES GOVERNING COMPETITION
All specifications of Numbers 8 and 15 under SEASON REGULATIONS (pages 43-47) will apply with these exceptions and
additions:
Athletes who are ineligible during the WIAA Tournament (for any reason) may not appear in uniform, participate in warm-ups, and
may not participate in the awards ceremony at the WIAA Tournament. Exception: An injured athlete will be allowed to participate in
the awards ceremony provided he/she is included in the roster allotment for that game.
a. A school may not compete in the tournament program if it has participated in more than 14 meets, or in more than 7
multiple school meets.
b. A school must participate in a minimum of four varsity meets in the regular season to be eligible for tournament
competition.
c. The WIAA office will furnish all participating schools necessary details to enter their athletes into the regional
tournament using the Track Wrestling program.
Note: Line ups must be entered by midnight Thursday prior to the regional tournament. Head to head competition
should be entered between midnight Thursday and midnight Friday.

[padre]

Doc,

Where did you find that rule regarding not wrestling past regionals?  I found this on the WIAA website (see below rule 3a).   Obviously, the De Pere AD and coaches are at fault, but I can't get past the WIAA allowing them to wrestle at regionals in the first place.  Texted a coach from the same conference as De Pere today and he told me De Pere had the WIAA's ruling allowing them to wrestle by February 6th.  (I was also told De Pere had some form of administrative punishment ... not sure what it was).

I just don't see how the WIAA can make a decision allowing them to compete and then 10 days later retract that.   If true, that is terribly mishandled by the WIAA.


3. RULES GOVERNING COMPETITION
All specifications of Numbers 8 and 15 under SEASON REGULATIONS (pages 43-47) will apply with these exceptions and
additions:
Athletes who are ineligible during the WIAA Tournament (for any reason) may not appear in uniform, participate in warm-ups, and
may not participate in the awards ceremony at the WIAA Tournament. Exception: An injured athlete will be allowed to participate in
the awards ceremony provided he/she is included in the roster allotment for that game.
a. A school may not compete in the tournament program if it has participated in more than 14 meets, or in more than 7
multiple school meets.
b. A school must participate in a minimum of four varsity meets in the regular season to be eligible for tournament
competition.
c. The WIAA office will furnish all participating schools necessary details to enter their athletes into the regional
tournament using the Track Wrestling program.
Note: Line ups must be entered by midnight Thursday prior to the regional tournament. Head to head competition
should be entered between midnight Thursday and midnight Friday.

Right?  How can you let someone wrestle regionals if there is any possibility of pulling them from sectionals.  Just plain stupid but Ive come to expect that type of thought process from the powers that be.

[Dale Einerson]

call Wade Lubeke at the WIAA and let him know how you feel.  715-344-8580   We should not be punishing students for an adults mistake!!!

I call Baloney!!!!!  I cannot believe anyone of you is condoning that the wrestlers should lose their chance to go on to sectionals.  I've lost tons of respect for those of you that say rules are rules. 

If your boss was running a Ponzi scheme in your workplace and he had to go to jail would you if you didn't know about it?  Absolutely not.  How dare any of you think the kids should take the fall for this.

I don't know any of the kids personally but I do know there are some kids that work there tails off on that team.

If you are a true wrestling fan you will call that number or send an email tonight(I will do both) and plead for these kids to wrestle.

I could care less if it was a good team that would influence how my son did Saturday....I would do the same and I hope others will also.

I am a true wrestling fan, whether you respect me or not.  I am not condoning breaking rules and no consequences, that is what I am not condoning.

Your example regarding a Ponzi scheme is perfect, only, watch American Greed for a couple of episodes and you will see dozens to hundreds of employees that were negatively impacted due to the decisions of one or two at the top.  Not to mention the rule followers that got stung...fair example with a bad interpretation...

I think you should be prepared to call or email all rule followers who miss their chance to advance to State because rule breakers are given a special advantage...

[woody53]

I know you all think the WIAA are Evil Overlords. They have the task of enforcing the the rules, regulations, and by laws, approved by the member schools. There is a process for situations like this. If a decision can not be made right away. More investigation is needed. the athletes are allowed to compete. That could, and I say could be the reason they were allowed to wrestle at Regionals.

[Dale Einerson]

Doc,

Where did you find that rule regarding not wrestling past regionals?  I found this on the WIAA website (see below rule 3a).   Obviously, the De Pere AD and coaches are at fault, but I can't get past the WIAA allowing them to wrestle at regionals in the first place.  Texted a coach from the same conference as De Pere today and he told me De Pere had the WIAA's ruling allowing them to wrestle by February 6th.  (I was also told De Pere had some form of administrative punishment ... not sure what it was).

I just don't see how the WIAA can make a decision allowing them to compete and then 10 days later retract that.   If true, that is terribly mishandled by the WIAA.


3. RULES GOVERNING COMPETITION
All specifications of Numbers 8 and 15 under SEASON REGULATIONS (pages 43-47) will apply with these exceptions and
additions:
Athletes who are ineligible during the WIAA Tournament (for any reason) may not appear in uniform, participate in warm-ups, and
may not participate in the awards ceremony at the WIAA Tournament. Exception: An injured athlete will be allowed to participate in
the awards ceremony provided he/she is included in the roster allotment for that game.
a. A school may not compete in the tournament program if it has participated in more than 14 meets, or in more than 7
multiple school meets.
b. A school must participate in a minimum of four varsity meets in the regular season to be eligible for tournament
competition.
c. The WIAA office will furnish all participating schools necessary details to enter their athletes into the regional
tournament using the Track Wrestling program.
Note: Line ups must be entered by midnight Thursday prior to the regional tournament. Head to head competition
should be entered between midnight Thursday and midnight Friday.

Right?  How can you let someone wrestle regionals if there is any possibility of pulling them from sectionals.  Just plain stupid but Ive come to expect that type of thought process from the powers that be.

I would interpret that to mean they shouldn't have been allowed to wrestle Regionals.  I am surmising the discovery about the events violation did not take place until after Regionals.  Is there reason to believe somebody from a competitive program was left out of Sectionals due to this?

If competing Coaches were the ones drawing attention to this then I must not be the only person asking about the affects to rule followers...Padre, if your team or individuals from your team missed a Madison trip because another team in your Sectional violated the rules and the WIAA stepped in to benefit the rule breakers instead of the rule followers, would you disrespect yourself in the morning?

[padre]

I know you all think the WIAA are Evil Overlords. They have the task of enforcing the the rules, regulations, and by laws, approved by the member schools. There is a process for situations like this. If a decision can not be made right away. More investigation is needed. the athletes are allowed to compete.

So what did they find in their ongoing investigation that they didn't already know?  Seems pretty cut and dry or was there an evil conspiracy by the De Pere wrestlers/coaches/AD that we don't know about it.

Just wish WIAA would have taken that much interest in Rapids back in the day.  They were interested enough to move them away from West/Merrill when no one else can get moved.  There were many circumstances that many of us know about that they broke rules much worse than this....so don't really want to hear it Dale.   And I don't even know these kids!!!!