What valuable lesson are we teaching the Wrestlers of De Pere High School?

[LaValle]

This is a horrible predicament.  I am not fond of many of the WIAA decisions.  This is obviously a clear cut violation and I guess I would lay a lot more of the blame on the coach.  In order to move forward the WIAA has to have consequences.  I would like to know what the consequences were when they allowed them to wrestle at regionals?  What changed?  I think everyone agrees on that but what should the consequences be?  Give your thoughts as to what they should be. Be realistic and they should be fair and they should be stern enough to deter this from ever happening again and makes people take notice to pay more attention in the future.  Put your feet in the shoes of the WIAA.

1) Wrestlers declared ineligible-  WIAA choice
2) Consequences to the coach?-  What can be done here?  Suspension?
3) Consequences for AD?  What can be done here?

Looks like Depere has 2 seniors who are the most greatly affected and one was likely to qualify and possibly win it all.  Could you actually compromise and declare all wrestlers ineligible except for those 2 seniors?  That could also set a bad precedent because it would make it individual rather than team

WIAA has to come up with sanctions against the school not the athletes.  The school then needs to determine what should be done with coach and AD.
WIAA Sanctions
1. Place school on probation (2-3 years) If another occurrence during that time then an immediate 1 year WIAA revocation for all sports
2. School not allowed to host any WIAA post season event (any sport) period of 2 years

That should be enough to get the school boards attention

Don't punish the athletes

7   10   Sam Bruss   De Pere   9 - 106lbs
HM   HM   George Lopez   De Pere   11 - 113lbs
11   HM(138)   Maxwell Bruss   De Pere   11  - 132lbs
3   3   Trevor Turriff   De Pere   12 - 160lbs
HM   NR   Charlie Hooyman   De Pere   10 - 182lbs

Why should athletes in other sports, be punished because the wrestling coach didn't follow the rules?  The rules are clearly stated on the maximum number of competitions.  The other sports at the school should not be affected or face potential consequences because of the inability for a wrestling coach to follow the rules.

How are athletes in other sports being punished.  Have to travel for a post season event?  Booster club can't run some concessions?  Big deal..  This is a school infraction!  Coach works for the AD and AD works for the school.  Coach represents one sport and the AD represents all sports.  Hold the school accountable for it's employees!

[DocWrestling]

Is this truly official because they are still listed on the sectional bracket on trackwrestling?

[buc65]

This is a horrible predicament.  I am not fond of many of the WIAA decisions.  This is obviously a clear cut violation and I guess I would lay a lot more of the blame on the coach.  In order to move forward the WIAA has to have consequences.  I would like to know what the consequences were when they allowed them to wrestle at regionals?  What changed?  I think everyone agrees on that but what should the consequences be?  Give your thoughts as to what they should be. Be realistic and they should be fair and they should be stern enough to deter this from ever happening again and makes people take notice to pay more attention in the future.  Put your feet in the shoes of the WIAA.

1) Wrestlers declared ineligible-  WIAA choice
2) Consequences to the coach?-  What can be done here?  Suspension?
3) Consequences for AD?  What can be done here?

Looks like Depere has 2 seniors who are the most greatly affected and one was likely to qualify and possibly win it all.  Could you actually compromise and declare all wrestlers ineligible except for those 2 seniors?  That could also set a bad precedent because it would make it individual rather than team

WIAA has to come up with sanctions against the school not the athletes.  The school then needs to determine what should be done with coach and AD.
WIAA Sanctions
1. Place school on probation (2-3 years) If another occurrence during that time then an immediate 1 year WIAA revocation for all sports
2. School not allowed to host any WIAA post season event (any sport) period of 2 years

That should be enough to get the school boards attention

Don't punish the athletes

7   10   Sam Bruss   De Pere   9 - 106lbs
HM   HM   George Lopez   De Pere   11 - 113lbs
11   HM(138)   Maxwell Bruss   De Pere   11  - 132lbs
3   3   Trevor Turriff   De Pere   12 - 160lbs
HM   NR   Charlie Hooyman   De Pere   10 - 182lbs

Why should athletes in other sports, be punished because the wrestling coach didn't follow the rules?  The rules are clearly stated on the maximum number of competitions.  The other sports at the school should not be affected or face potential consequences because of the inability for a wrestling coach to follow the rules.

How are athletes in other sports being punished.  Have to travel for a post season event?  Booster club can't run some concessions?  Big deal..  This is a school infraction!  Coach works for the AD and AD works for the school.  Coach represents one sport and the AD represents all sports.  Hold the school accountable for it's employees!

Yes, punishing the athletes in other sports by making them travel for a post season event is punishment.  If the football team or basketball earns a home game in the playoffs, they would be punished by making them travel (because of an ignorant wrestling coach) instead of playing a home game that they earned.  Also, proposing that another violation would result in a revocation of 1 year for all sports would also be punishment if it were to happen.  

[bigoil]

What did they actually violate?

I looked at their schedule and if I recall I counted 8 or 9 duals (one or two may have been double dual nights) and 7 tournaments. In researching it, I noticed that another school that De Pere wrestled also had additional dual events.

[LaValle]

This is a horrible predicament.  I am not fond of many of the WIAA decisions.  This is obviously a clear cut violation and I guess I would lay a lot more of the blame on the coach.  In order to move forward the WIAA has to have consequences.  I would like to know what the consequences were when they allowed them to wrestle at regionals?  What changed?  I think everyone agrees on that but what should the consequences be?  Give your thoughts as to what they should be. Be realistic and they should be fair and they should be stern enough to deter this from ever happening again and makes people take notice to pay more attention in the future.  Put your feet in the shoes of the WIAA.

1) Wrestlers declared ineligible-  WIAA choice
2) Consequences to the coach?-  What can be done here?  Suspension?
3) Consequences for AD?  What can be done here?

Looks like Depere has 2 seniors who are the most greatly affected and one was likely to qualify and possibly win it all.  Could you actually compromise and declare all wrestlers ineligible except for those 2 seniors?  That could also set a bad precedent because it would make it individual rather than team

WIAA has to come up with sanctions against the school not the athletes.  The school then needs to determine what should be done with coach and AD.
WIAA Sanctions
1. Place school on probation (2-3 years) If another occurrence during that time then an immediate 1 year WIAA revocation for all sports
2. School not allowed to host any WIAA post season event (any sport) period of 2 years

That should be enough to get the school boards attention

Don't punish the athletes

7   10   Sam Bruss   De Pere   9 - 106lbs
HM   HM   George Lopez   De Pere   11 - 113lbs
11   HM(138)   Maxwell Bruss   De Pere   11  - 132lbs
3   3   Trevor Turriff   De Pere   12 - 160lbs
HM   NR   Charlie Hooyman   De Pere   10 - 182lbs

Why should athletes in other sports, be punished because the wrestling coach didn't follow the rules?  The rules are clearly stated on the maximum number of competitions.  The other sports at the school should not be affected or face potential consequences because of the inability for a wrestling coach to follow the rules.

How are athletes in other sports being punished.  Have to travel for a post season event?  Booster club can't run some concessions?  Big deal..  This is a school infraction!  Coach works for the AD and AD works for the school.  Coach represents one sport and the AD represents all sports.  Hold the school accountable for it's employees!

Yes, punishing the athletes in other sports by making them travel for a post season event is punishment.  If the football team or basketball earns a home game in the playoffs, they would be punished by making them travel (because of an ignorant wrestling coach) instead of playing a home game that they earned.  Also, proposing that another violation would result in a revocation of 1 year for all sports would also be punishment if it were to happen.  

It would not happen twice where I work!  It is just my opinion that the school needs to be held responsible for violating rules just like an athlete or student is when they violate a rule.

[TripleOT]

Rules are rules but this falls on the AD and the Coach! They should be taking the heat on this and not the kids. Further more now by allowing them to participate at regionals and then pulling them your penalizing the rest of the kids in that regional. What happens to all the kids that missed going that would of advanced? Do they now get to go or will this sectional now have open brackets? Let the kids wrestle. It is already messed up.

[All Blue]

I watched Turiff wrestle at OTW...the kid is a stud. DePere had a whole section with posters supporting him. No matter whos to blame for this,turiff is a senior and DESERVES his shot! He will remember this one incident for the rest of his life. Obviously, I feel terrible for all wrestlers involved, but gee wizz give them a break. Its not like they are scheduling their own matches. A top 3 wrestler out?? Total BS!!

[DenBosch]

The WIAA and DePere High School owe the D1 wrestling community an explanation, and an apology for:

1.) their inability to understand and comply by the rules of the game, and
2.) their inability to properly gather, report, and interpret the facts related to this violation, and
2.) their inability to establish an equitable and durable resolution prior to Regionals, and
3.) their negligence in impacting the outcome of this Regional/Sectional, and the opportunities of the athletes they are entrusted to lead.

According to the GBPG:  " The team's schedule was adjusted to clarify which events were varsity and junior varsity to put the team within the 14-meet limit for the regular season and allow it to compete at regionals.   However, eight of De Pere's sectional qualifiers are being ruled ineligible due to exceeding the 14-meet limit upon a review of the individuals' schedules towards the regular season.  The individual review of wrestlers this week by the WIAA happened after it received inquiries from other member schools regarding eligibility.

Does anyone else smell something funny with that statement? 

So......... the School "self-informed" the WIAA on February 3 that their kids had competed in too many events. They then adjusted the schedule to clarify which events were Varsity, and which were JV (Makes sense so far, right?) Do the WIAA and DePere High School honestly expect us to believe that in the following 7 days, there wasn't a single responsible person at the WIAA or DePere High School capable of determining WHICH KIDS had wrestled too many matches and were ineligible to compete in the Regional on Saturday...?  Are you kidding me?  What are we missing here?  I can pull that information in 5 minutes on Track!  The WIAA and DPHS then stood back and let these kids wrestle Regionals, take the podium, watch some competitors end their season/career, all without anyone asking WHICH WRESLTERS WERE IN VIOLATION?   Hey, let's wait and see if anyone notices, yep, that makes sense, let's wait until after they wrestle Rgionals, then it will be easier to deal with.

At an average salary of $183,330 one would hope the top 6 executives at the WIAA, would be capable of INTERPRETING AND MAKING A JUDGEMENT ON A VIOLATION AND CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR OWN RULES!

It shouldn't be necessary for the other member schools to follow up on decisions made by the highest governing body of Wisconsin High School Athletics, but what are you going to do when together the offending school and the WIAA cannot get it right?

My heart goes out to the DePere Wrestlers as they have been royally screwed by their AD, their coaches, and the WIAA.

WIAA, it's your move, get it right!

"If gold rusts, what then shall iron do?"

[CTonsor]

None of it can be determined because of how good or bad the team or kids on their team might be. If none of their kids had a chance to make it to state it shouldn't change the way it's ruled.
If they were allowed to wrestle at Regionals they should be allowed to continue.
I do not know the whole story but I am having an impossible time understanding how nobody in the program from AD, coaches, wrestlers or parents knew they were violating rules? Every coach should know that and I know a few of our wrestlers and certainly some of the parents would know the rule. Someone knew.

[walkd]

I agree the AD should have known the rules, but not all ADs are wrestling savvy and in today's world they are wearing many hats.  I would put most of the blame on the coaching staff, they know the rules and in most cases would follow them more stringently than the AD.  That said, I agree it should not fall upon the kids.  Rules are often black and white to make it easy and eliminate the gray.  Unfortunately common sense disappears when rules are made to be black and white.  There has to be a way in which the school and the coaching staff have sanctions put against them.  Common sense would tell you the kids are not responsible and they should not be punished for the AD and coaches bad planning.  Lets hope the WIAA instills some commons sense.

[DocWrestling]

This article states that 8 of the 10 sectional qualifiers were ruled ineligible.  Assuming that the other two missed an event.  Sounds like there is a hearing on Friday morning so not finalized.

http://wbay.com/2017/02/16/de-pere-hs-wrestlers-ruled-ineligible-pending-appeal/?cid=WBAY_TV-2

[bigoil]

Their AD has been around since at least 2000, so it isn't like this sport is new to him.

[Dale Einerson]

Seems:

The decision was made by the WIAA when the rule was set, way back when.

Seems the WIAA said you can compete in the post season tournament, through Regionals, not the post season tournament in its entirety. And, it appears that is what has happened.

To be Technical, the Seniors on the team are not being "punished" more than any others, they are being affected the same.  It is their Senior year, which is likely more emotional and disappointing, but the same affect.  

An alternative view, the wrestlers got to participate in additional wrestling events than all others in the state through Regionals; while I see it is easy to say they are being punished, they do not get to wrestle at state, should they have qualified; there is no guarantee any individual could have made it through.

Rules are rules.  Real life says people suffer due to the decisions and actions of others on a frequent and regular basis.  There are consequences for decisions and actions, I should think this would be a terminable offense, for somebody.  Hard to believe an AD could receive lifetime pay and benefits for allowing this to happen on his/her watch...

Totally disappointing, but would be made worse of the rules were cast aside to negatively impact competitors who followed the same set of rules and somehow all but 1 program in the state got it right...

[DocWrestling]

This has to be on the coach.  Coaches have to know their schedule.  Then they also have to keep track of their athletes as many might bounce between JV and varsity events so not all athletes have the same.  Just like many coaches have to adjust an athletes personal calendar if they qualify for JV state and that becomes and added event for those specific athletes.

Sure would be easier for coaches if we just went with a maximum matches limit before regionals.

[Dale Einerson]

Their AD has been around since at least 2000, so it isn't like this sport is new to him.

1 AD with a wrestling program in the entire state got it wrong, in how many years?  10? 15?  Do the math on that and this AD has failed to get done 1x what has been done over 6,000 times successfully, including his/her own program in every prior year. 

When I read "maybe not wrestling savvy" what I conclude is "not up to the job."