Filling WI Weight Classes: The Data

[Mack]

My husband was one of those senior 98 pounders in the '80's.  He loved sports, and went to a big school.  Wrestling was his only option.  That opportunity opened the door to his life's work.  He went on to coach wrestling and build a nice program.  His two sons also loved sports, but were too small for anything but wrestling. They also occupied the lower weights (the older one only his freshman year). Selfishly speaking, I'm thankful the lower weights are a thing.

[CityGuy]

Middle school duals and club team will definitely help improve our wrestling quality and experience. Growing up in Chicago I wrestled for the Vittum Park Cats and it is one of my best wrestling experiences to date. From 6th grade forward we had team duals all the way to a team dual state championship. Maybe my experience was skewed because I was part of a few state championship teams, but I really enjoyed the team aspect of it. Then we all went on to wrestle in different high schools because of the many choices Chicago offered. We still wrestled on our middle school programs with our neighborhood kids though.

Other teams were very tough as well such as the Little Celtics, Harvey Twisters, Wrestling Factory etc. I have been in this state for 4 years now and believe our middle school programs are behind other top states. I will say I coach at the high school level though, so don't see too much action at the middle school level. Ringers, Askren and I'm sure more teams I haven't saw yet are doing great things, but I think the middle school format as a whole needs to be looked at. In Illinois we also were assigned a regional and sectional based on where you live and could not choose any regional like I have been told you can in Wisconsin. Just some ideas to add in a perspective of a man who grew up wrestling in Illinois and is now a Wisconsin man.

[ramjet]

Doc,
My point was there are several reasons weight allowance is nessasary.

Ram,
Several of the privet clubs are thriving and growing in numbers and success. Aviators and Ringers have created a national traveling team to help kids that want to compete nationally at the high school level, there two clubs practice together weekly and compete together. They also are working with a nonprofit K-ids N-eed O-portunity W-restling. This none profit can help raise money for kids that need everything from Shoes to money to get into privet clubs, to travel money for world or Olympic wrestler.
There are folks out there doing a ton on local and state levels, we need help at every level to build the sport.

Yes I agree they are not ham strung by the bureaucracy of the School Systems, like so many of the groups I just named the two I have seen make this sport trend in an upward direction. My post was not to detract from other successes. There are many.

[littleguy301]

In my district we have no shortage of the littleguys but in the very near future we have a huge shortage of big guys. Though with in the next decade I do feel by the size of the parents that signed up their youth we will be going the route of no shortage of big guys 

In my district yes we can for the first time fill out a whole line up. Though I may add that we are just putting bodies in at some of the upper weights. Also we arent the only school doing so. I wouldnt mind combining a couple of upper weights and such to reduce down to 12. I never said cut but combine, maybe a tad better word but not really.

At the high school level, numbers are dropping and combining weights I think is in order.

long term, we should promote our sport in a different manner and that starts from the colleges down to the youth. Including high school and middle.

Ideas
Weight managment and not cutting
eating healthy
promoting fitnnes
promoting athletic stuff like cartwheels, flips, hand springs. Bet the football coach notices this ours did
having open camps in the off season to promote wrestling

With the last statement I mean, have a take down clinic and get the linebackers and DB's in from the football team and show proper tackling. If that works on the football field I bet the football coach notices.
Have a stance and athletic postions camp. invite the basketball and baseball teams. Heck a good wrestling stance works in basketball and what infielder in baseball isnt in basically a wrestling stance. How to move in it and be an athlete in that stance.

Sure it is not like kids are going to quite their sports but maybe some of the pre concived ideas may go out the window and some support comes down and maybe those coaches will steer a couple of kids that way.

Just some ideas but it needs to start now and at all levels!

[DocWrestling]

This is the funny thing about wrestling.  We have absolutely no little guys and always have extra bigger guys.  We have recruited hard and not sure if we have filled 106 and 113 both in the same year for years and have not had a guy at those weights that should be "varsity" in years. They are hard to find here.  I think that will continue as our football coach really pushes wrestling and our football coaches announce and do clock at our duals.

That seems to be part of the problem of wrestling where you have to keep both ends of the extreme but filling both ends of the bell curve can be tough.

[Handles II]

Hello Folks,
Due to Storm of the Century All I could find on Trackwrestling was Badger State and E.H.Stetch Invitationals (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). Therefore I won't be doing an update on numbers until after the other Holiday tournaments. I'll combine these two tournaments with the others and find out what happens.

On a side note, a gal I know once noted that "weathermen are like guys bragging in a bar. If they are saying 10 inches, figure on about 1/2 of that."   

[bkraus]

Hello Folks,
Due to Storm of the Century All I could find on Trackwrestling was Badger State and E.H.Stetch Invitationals (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). Therefore I won't be doing an update on numbers until after the other Holiday tournaments. I'll combine these two tournaments with the others and find out what happens.

On a side note, a gal I know once noted that "weathermen are like guys bragging in a bar. If they are saying 10 inches, figure on about 1/2 of that."   

[Handles II]

New numbers for the new year:
I included tournaments prior to the holiday break that ran despite the unbelievably giant snowstorm we had, as well as our post Christmas tournaments, here are the numbers:

243 teams  in 7 tournaments representing a possible 3,402 wrestlers. We were able to include 2501 wrestlers, ie 901 spots were left open for a 73.5% of weights filled and an average of 10.3 wrestlers per team. 113 is still the low-spot for the lighter weights and HWT was this week for the big guys, perhaps the 2lb allowance was a factor?

I also did something additional...Due to scratches at these larger tournaments where a kid who didn't make weight can't just bump up to the next weight class like can often be afforded at smaller tournaments, for arguments sake I did a run of numbers where I added five "ghost" wrestlers into the numbers at each of our 4 largest tournaments to compensate for those scratches. Even in our most populous weight class (152) adding in those 20 "ghost" wrestlers still didn't get us to a 90% of slots filled (89%).

106: 159-65%
113: 157-64%
120: 180-74%
126: 194-79%
132: 187-76%
138: 181-74%
145: 195-80%
152: 197-81%
160: 194-79%
170: 176-72%
182: 177-72%
195: 173-71%
220: 172-70%
285: 159-65%

Thus far in the season, our percentages have remained fairly consistent. We have been at about 10 wrestlers per team wrestling in a varsity spot (this does not mean they "belong" on varsity), on average. I wouldn't consider making 10 weights per team, as I understand each sides of the issue, but I'm very strongly looking at 12 weights as perhaps the best number. It would potentially put 2 more kids onto the JV squad (almost every team has 1-2 that could use more experience) and remove a 12 point advantage/disadvantage in dual meets, as well as dozens of points in individual tournaments. This would add more parity to our sport, increasing the need to work to stay ahead for established teams, and a booster shot for the lesser teams in that they can now at least be competitive. This very well may keep some teams from being cut, and by doing so, help keep our sport alive and viable at all corners of our state, big schools or small.

It appears that somehow 113 could be absorbed or combined in the lower weights, and maybe 220 or 195 but the numbers aren't quite solid enough at this point. We do know that it is generally easier for a non-wrestler to start as a 11th or 12th grader and be competitive at 195/220/285 than it would for one to be competitive at 106/113/120, so that needs to be a consideration.

[bigG]

110 and 205....DONE!!!!

[DocWrestling]

110 and 205....DONE!!!!

I think this would be a quick easy fix and makes complete sense to get to 12.  Maybe we need to stretch up some weight classes at the top to maybe 173 and 185 but if we are going to 12 you have to cut one from the top and one from the bottom.  That is what makes sense with the numbers.  Stretch out the middle weights and you could easily get to 11.

Still think we can have a system for duals with fewer weight classes than we have for individual tournaments

[Handles II]

Great info Pat Kilty,
What would happen if girls wrestling was sanctioned? Well, for one we would lose those 60 girls wrestling varsity and our numbers would be  even lower for "boys" wrestling. 2. it might increase the number of girls that get involved in the sport and that isn't a bad thing imo.

Doc and G,

Looking at the data, 106 is doing ok, not outstanding, but pretty good. I think keeping a 106/07/08 lb weight class, then a 115 and 125 might be a better solution than just a 110 then 120? There is a ton of talent in 106 (look at the seeds from Bi-state or OTW) that will often grow into the heavier weights, let's keep those kids on varsity.  Maybe there is a growth gap around 113 just like in that 195 range? Kids sort of skip over it from one year to the next? I'd be very curious about the numbers when we had 103 and 112 and what the differences would be...

[MNbadger]

DW:  " Stretch out the middle weights and you could easily get to 11."

Yes, but in the middle is where MOST the kids are.

[DocWrestling]

DW:  " Stretch out the middle weights and you could easily get to 11."

Yes, but in the middle is where MOST the kids are.

I don't disagree with that at all.

[1Iota]

DW:  " Stretch out the middle weights and you could easily get to 11."

Yes, but in the middle is where MOST the kids are.

If College can have 189 as the second heaviest class, why does HS need 2 above that class? 

[bigoil]

Great point. I know in Wrightstown our coaches are supporting women's wrestling in NE WI.

I do think that in time you will see regional girls wrestling teams, much like hockey is for boys where you have two - three teams in a region like GB (GB, NDA, Ash, Bayport) and Appleton (Hortonville, appleton united).

Ultimately girls wrestling would be additive exposure for wrestling, though as you point out, less on a boys HS team (200).