On Guillotine, varsity numbers...

[Ghetto]

I hate any talk about limiting the lighter brackets.  How about the kid that won't come close to 106# until Sophmore or later.  So he sits on JV or has to wrestle someone 5-15# even more heavier at 113# versus 106# because certain schools can not consistently fill a lineup?  I suggest you go to youth state this year, tell those 80#, 85#, 90# birth year '02-'03 kids that they need to gain 20-35# this summer (on an 80# body frame) because a bunch of coaches can't recruit the cross country kid. 

My son's HS barely had 20 kids out for years and years.  This year 40 kids.  Only difference-2nd year of a new coach, and many of the youth football coaches talking up wrestling.

Again, lets start punishing everyone because of someone else's problems.

I hate it too. However, the numbers don't take sides. If more kids under 100 pounds came out, then the numbers would skew that way.

If we went to 12 weights, we wouldn't be punishing everyone. There are very few teams that cover 14 weights.

[TeamJ]

By eliminating the lightest weights, you are punishing someone--the 90#-110# kids.  If going to 12 weights somehow increases HS wrestling participation and numbers (which I doubt), then spread the middle weights out and decrease them by 2. 

Yes, I agree it probably is a problem in the small schools that have a smaller pool.  But again, why punish/limit every school? 

I am an intermittent lurker at the most on here and it appears this subject comes up often...yet I do not see the posts and topics on how we can reverse the trend of 939 less kids getting bodyfatted compared to a few years ago.  I am not trying to be snarky and apologize if I missed them.  I am just amazed there are 4 pages of conversation on shrinking, versus growing.

[aarons23]

I am an intermittent lurker at the most on here and it appears this subject comes up often...yet I do not see the posts and topics on how we can reverse the trend of 939 less kids getting bodyfatted compared to a few years ago.  I am not trying to be snarky and apologize if I missed them.  I am just amazed there are 4 pages of conversation on shrinking, versus growing.

Best post on this subject yet!!!

[MNbadger]

Not at the high schools I am around (Twin Cities/Metro area).  The JV is not as GOOD as the varsity but size-wise they are virtually identical.  As I think about it more, the point is moot as wrestling is the only one that has weight divisions.

"We should not have the same weight classes for varsity as we do JV.  The kids are different in sizes.  In every sport the JV team is smaller than the varsity team!"

In what sport is the jv smaller than the varsity?

?  The JV football team is smaller than the varsity.  The JV basketball team is smaller than the varsity.  The JV baseball team is smaller than the varsity.  Are you saying kids are not growing throughout high school?  In most other sports the varsity is dominated by upper classmen so they are historically bigger than the JVs that are dominated by freshman and sophomores.

[Ghetto]

I am an intermittent lurker at the most on here and it appears this subject comes up often...yet I do not see the posts and topics on how we can reverse the trend of 939 less kids getting bodyfatted compared to a few years ago.  I am not trying to be snarky and apologize if I missed them.  I am just amazed there are 4 pages of conversation on shrinking, versus growing.

Best post on this subject yet!!!

Start with a kids club coach that has a decent high school background who will stick around after his kid is out of high school. He needs to be able to balance fun and technique.

Have your varsity wrestlers work the kids club and be ambassadors.

Have a separate night for kids who want to get more serious in the club.

Hire a coach that also works in the building. Or at least in the district.

Recruit kids early. Don't wait until middle school or later.

Have the middle school coach on your high school staff to bridge the gap so they don't quit before HS.

Get the football coach on board.

Show up in the weight room.

Promote like crazy any way you can.

[Barou]

TeamJ,
I get what you mean, but in what other sport does a 100-115 pound freshman or sophomore get on Varsity? Even as a  swimmer a freshman that makes Varsity is going to have to have the muscle mass to keep up to the older boys so they would most likely still weigh over a 130 at least, I guess maybe golf?
As I stated before I don't want to see any weights cut unless we are talking about a small school division for schools 400 or less total student body.
I personally don't think any school other then a small rural school has a legit reason they cant fill a roster, not saying its easy. All sports are finding it more of a challenge filling rosters including football.

I'm probably in the minority here but I like that wrestling provides the opportunity for a 100 lb freshman to compete on varsity. 

[Handles II]

I am an intermittent lurker at the most on here and it appears this subject comes up often...yet I do not see the posts and topics on how we can reverse the trend of 939 less kids getting bodyfatted compared to a few years ago.  I am not trying to be snarky and apologize if I missed them.  I am just amazed there are 4 pages of conversation on shrinking, versus growing.

Best post on this subject yet!!!

I disagree. The subject matter of growing the sport comes up continuously on this forum. From how youth practice or tournaments should be run, to coaching and practice ideas, recruiting efforts and ideas, fundraising....it's been pretty continuous for well over a dozen years. This thread ISN'T about shrinking. As Ghetto's regional numbers have been showing since 2005, its about too many weight classes for teams to fill. That isn't a shrinking problem, it's a consistent problem that some of us are finally starting to pay attention to after having 14 weights for about 15 years...

Wisconsin tournament numbers are on a new post. Let's see what the data shows.

[aarons23]

I am an intermittent lurker at the most on here and it appears this subject comes up often...yet I do not see the posts and topics on how we can reverse the trend of 939 less kids getting bodyfatted compared to a few years ago.  I am not trying to be snarky and apologize if I missed them.  I am just amazed there are 4 pages of conversation on shrinking, versus growing.

Best post on this subject yet!!!

I disagree. The subject matter of growing the sport comes up continuously on this forum. From how youth practice or tournaments should be run, to coaching and practice ideas, recruiting efforts and ideas, fundraising....it's been pretty continuous for well over a dozen years. This thread ISN'T about shrinking. As Ghetto's regional numbers have been showing since 2005, its about too many weight classes for teams to fill. That isn't a shrinking problem, it's a consistent problem that some of us are finally starting to pay attention to after having 14 weights for about 15 years...

Wisconsin tournament numbers are on a new post. Let's see what the data shows.

Really??  Where are all these post about growing the sport?  To many want the easy way out and would rather make a simple cut than to commit to the hard task, but rewarding task of building programs.   Once you start cutting....its the beginning of the end.  Plus there is no logical place to cut weight classes that would actually help the sport grow.

[shouldvewrestled]

I am an intermittent lurker at the most on here and it appears this subject comes up often...yet I do not see the posts and topics on how we can reverse the trend of 939 less kids getting bodyfatted compared to a few years ago.  I am not trying to be snarky and apologize if I missed them.  I am just amazed there are 4 pages of conversation on shrinking, versus growing.

Best post on this subject yet!!!

I disagree. The subject matter of growing the sport comes up continuously on this forum. From how youth practice or tournaments should be run, to coaching and practice ideas, recruiting efforts and ideas, fundraising....it's been pretty continuous for well over a dozen years. This thread ISN'T about shrinking. As Ghetto's regional numbers have been showing since 2005, its about too many weight classes for teams to fill. That isn't a shrinking problem, it's a consistent problem that some of us are finally starting to pay attention to after having 14 weights for about 15 years...

Wisconsin tournament numbers are on a new post. Let's see what the data shows.

Really??  Where are all these post about growing the sport?  To many want the easy way out and would rather make a simple cut than to commit to the hard task, but rewarding task of building programs.   Once you start cutting....its the beginning of the end.  Plus there is no logical place to cut weight classes that would actually help the sport grow.

I think the point is sometimes "less is more" and by cutting down the weight classes to 10-13 (however many you want to cut) is actually going to help grow the sport.  Just because we offer the opportunity doesn't mean people will want to take it.  I'm with you aarons on the not cutting the 106 weight class as wrestling is the sport that embraces the little guy being able to be on varsity.  Still with obstacles sports face today wrestling weight class numbers might have outstretched their feasability.  By cutting weight classes it's not saying we give up and take the easy way out.  Can still walk the halls and recruit, fight specialization, find other ways to advertise the sport, etc.  Hopefully someday then could increase it back to 14 weights possibly.  Right now it's just a suggestion and topic of conversation not set in stone, it's good to look at data and discuss possible ways to help the sport. 

[Handles II]

C'mon Aarons, you can't possibly say that you haven't seen or read posts and threads about how to improve our sport.   

Personally I don't believe reducing weights will "grow" our sport unless it happens in one of two ways. 1. By being able to fill a higher % of the weight classes, our tournaments and duals become more competitive and have fewer forfeits we are able to show Admin that we have "full and/or competitive" varsity teams to keep our sport off the chopping block. Or 2. That some currently co-oped teams may be able to separate and once again be able to offer the sport at their school.  I have the most hopes for 1, but 2 might be a distinct possibility is some situations.

[Ghetto]

If sales were to dip in your business, would you keep all the employees if it could possibly bring down your business? Many businesses fail by failing to see the data right there in front of them.

[aarons23]

If sales were to dip in your business, would you keep all the employees if it could possibly bring down your business? Many businesses fail by failing to see the data right there in front of them.

First off many businesses fail because they are to quick to cut...not look at ways to improve and grow.

Secondly high school wrestling is not a business.....its an extension of the classrooms...its about creating opportunities for kids to learn to be successful individuals....its not about throwing the towel in and cutting the weight classes.

[dman]

If sales were to dip in your business, would you keep all the employees if it could possibly bring down your business? Many businesses fail by failing to see the data right there in front of them.

First off many businesses fail because they are to quick to cut...not look at ways to improve and grow.

Secondly high school wrestling is not a business.....its an extension of the classrooms...its about creating opportunities for kids to learn to be successful individuals....its not about throwing the towel in and cutting the weight classes.

  Not sure I understand your point here Aarons??  Unless, you are speaking specifically about your small business, pretty sure this is not a blanket statement that can be made across all businesses...actually, I am more than pretty sure...it doesn't even come close to being true about the majority of businesses.

[Handles II]

If sales were to dip in your business, would you keep all the employees if it could possibly bring down your business? Many businesses fail by failing to see the data right there in front of them.

First off many businesses fail because they are to quick to cut...not look at ways to improve and grow.

Secondly high school wrestling is not a business.....its an extension of the classrooms...its about creating opportunities for kids to learn to be successful individuals....its not about throwing the towel in and cutting the weight classes.

If the community and administration has a school building out in the country that it simply can't fill with students, but they can close that school to save money and the kids will then go help fill another building, that's what will typically happen.

Our 9.8 varsity wrestlers per team average is looking like that to people who both know, and don't know wrestling. Fewer weights would create on average fuller more competitive varsities and fuller more competitive JV.  Selling our product to the people who are in charge is paramount.  

[Ghetto]

a·nal·o·gy
əˈnaləjē/
noun
a comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.