On Guillotine, varsity numbers...

[MNbadger]

"We should not have the same weight classes for varsity as we do JV.  The kids are different in sizes.  In every sport the JV team is smaller than the varsity team!"

In what sport is the jv smaller than the varsity?

[DocWrestling]

"We should not have the same weight classes for varsity as we do JV.  The kids are different in sizes.  In every sport the JV team is smaller than the varsity team!"

In what sport is the jv smaller than the varsity?

?  The JV football team is smaller than the varsity.  The JV basketball team is smaller than the varsity.  The JV baseball team is smaller than the varsity.  Are you saying kids are not growing throughout high school?  In most other sports the varsity is dominated by upper classmen so they are historically bigger than the JVs that are dominated by freshman and sophomores.

[littleguy301]

I think this is kind of funny.

It has been said on this forum over the years that Minnesota with JHI has just as tough of time of filling out line ups as Wisconsin does.

I cannt argue the data but man, it must be a regional thing. I look in the area I live and I see alot of kids not even making the 106 weight. Meaning I see kids weighing alot less than 106 wrestling at tournaments.

I also see alot of FF in the upper weights. I suppose that is why they do a state wide study and not just a regional study.

I like the weights but in my honest opinion I would do away with 2 classes above 200 and add another around the 100 mark.

Just my honest opinion.

Good topic!

[Handles II]

Ghetto,
Are those the weights they weighed in at, or are those the weights they would weigh at the 7% minimum? Just trying to clarify. Thanks.

This thread probably shouldn't turn into a "what weights?!?" argument, but rather a discussion that first focuses on - Do we have too many weights and what are the solutions that will best help our sport be more viable in the eyes of those who make the decisions about cuts and co-ops.

[Handles II]

Ghetto,
Are those the weights they weighed in at, or are those the weights they would weigh at the 7% minimum? Just trying to clarify. Thanks.

This thread probably shouldn't turn into a "what weights?!?" argument, but rather a discussion that first focuses on - Do we have too many weights and what are the solutions that will best help our sport be more viable in the eyes of those who make the decisions about cuts and co-ops.

LG, dropping a division won't help fill weight classes. That's a whole different subject. The issue is not filling the number of weights we now have, not filling divisions.

[littleguy301]

It is all about opportunities for the kids. Every one knows that we cannt leave a child behind and we cannt hurt feelings.

I know people say that it is the coaches job to recruit and get kids out. Sure maybe in schools with 2K students but when you start getting schools down in the 500 or under that possible pool of kids that will wrestler now becomes alot smaller.

7%, 1/2 pound a day, parents permission, maintain your weight, hydration, what to weight on so and so day. these are all hard things for new parents and wrestlers to understand. Yes they have to educated but wrestling in their thoughts of making things safe has made things very difficult to explain to new families. I spend alot of time talking with parents as to what their "johnny" can weight, what to eat, what to drink and so on. Sure some get it but some really dont.

With that said, I believe in 2 divisions. one with 14 and 1 with 12. Get rid of conference tournaments (that will ruffle feathers) and have true dual meets to determine and individual meets also.

[littleguy301]

Ghetto,
Are those the weights they weighed in at, or are those the weights they would weigh at the 7% minimum? Just trying to clarify. Thanks.

This thread probably shouldn't turn into a "what weights?!?" argument, but rather a discussion that first focuses on - Do we have too many weights and what are the solutions that will best help our sport be more viable in the eyes of those who make the decisions about cuts and co-ops.

LG, dropping a division won't help fill weight classes. That's a whole different subject. The issue is not filling the number of weights we now have, not filling divisions.

OK, I didnt explain.

Make 2 division with 24 man brackets. That would be 48 kids per weight instead of what we have.
8 sectionals
8 winners get first round byes
top 3 place winners from sectionals make it

there, how about that?

[littleguy301]

Many sports are built at the youth level. One thing I see hurting our numbers is cost. It costs $100 for youth to sign up in our program. That's just to get started. There are many parents that can't afford that. There are also many parents that will not sign their child up because of the "what if they don't like it?" They just spent $100 so that their child could "try" our great sport and now they aren't interested. On top of the sign up costs you have shoes, singlets, entry fees, travel expenses, etc. I think we could do more to try to attract young kids and their families and then do our best to make sure these kids and families keep interested. This starts at the youth club level. Of course there are a multitude of reasons and this is just one thing I see.

I don't think 100.00 is the norm for youth wrestling clubs. Ours is $45.00 for 4 months and you get a free $40.00 USA card.

40$ here and 25$ for first timers and a top of 60$ for families.
free t-shirt
entry fee in our tournament

USA cards, we supply but they buy.

[CTonsor]

How much is related to kids and parents focusing on one sport from a young age? The specialized Clubs and traveling teams that are now in every sport often times go year round. When you participate in multiple sports it's near impossible to keep up competitively with those doing only one sport year round. Parents and kids see that and ultimately make a decision to go all in on one sport. The clubs and traveling teams certainly make kids better; but I believe it leads to a bigger divide and tends to force decisions for a sport at too young of an age.
Some of the best programs in the state are still combing the halls for an athlete or football player to fill in a spot and teach them how to wrestle on the fly, just to not give up that 6 points. In my experience and speaking to other teams there is often a lack of cooperation between sports. I always cringe when a football player won't join wrestling just because they want to lift for next season or because they don't want to shed some excess weight to make a weight class. The demands for one sport, especially in schools where a specific sport is king, is too great for the average athlete to overcome therefore forcing them to give all effort to getting better at one sport.  Can other sports assist an athlete at becoming better at their chosen sport? Absolutely...but I don't think a lot of athletes or their parents believe that.

[CTonsor]

Seeing teams like Stoughton have two teams in the Dells is great. 28+ kids getting the varsity experience and all being able to spend time together afterwards (assuming they stayed at a water park). I think as your team improves or declines you need to adjust your schedule to include tourneys that match your ability. Things like lesser varsity tourneys for "varsity reserves" or a scramble format or any individual Tourney that allows a team to enter multiple kids; again making room for a young varsity caliber wrestler or kids that just cannot crack the lineup on a good team.
JV tourneys should never have weight classes IMO and the Dual format is also  of helpful at this level. Nothing is more useless than us FF 120 and you FF 126. Keeping all JV tourneys away from these formats would improve the JV experience.
Anyway to sell the team experience of wrestling is going to help. The more kids feel included the more kids will want to join. Giving them opportunities that match their ability level is a big part in that.

[Ghetto]

Your division of weight classes is just a math problem....has no bearing on what kids actually weigh....thus....it will do nothing but hurt programs that have worked to achieve the numbers.....its not just about math....if you want a real discussion about cutting weight classes you need to include the number of ff per existing weight class.   Then Ill go back to....please tell me which 106# in the last 5 years didnt deserve their state title? Or even their state p l acement or qualifying?

Not sure what you mean.

It IS what kids weighed at their body fat test. Exactly. I did have to round up or down so a weight wouldn't be 113.4 or some odd number like that.

I'm not going to get into what weight should be cut. That makes no sense. That's an emotional argument. It makes more sense to have weight classes where kids actually are, rather than make up arbitrary numbers, at least in my opinion. I would never say (and haven't said) that any kid didn't deserve to wrestle or place at state.


I have looked at what weights have less kids at regionals. It's all over the board, depending on the year.

I was also given the 7% number that kids could go to, but we can't build weights on that. Most heavy guys, if they were at 7%, would be wrestling 182 and lower. There would be no 285.

Again I will say that it's just data. I'll keep throwing it out there.

[TeamJ]

I hate any talk about limiting the lighter brackets.  How about the kid that won't come close to 106# until Sophmore or later.  So he sits on JV or has to wrestle someone 5-15# even more heavier at 113# versus 106# because certain schools can not consistently fill a lineup?  I suggest you go to youth state this year, tell those 80#, 85#, 90# birth year '02-'03 kids that they need to gain 20-35# this summer (on an 80# body frame) because a bunch of coaches can't recruit the cross country kid. 

My son's HS barely had 20 kids out for years and years.  This year 40 kids.  Only difference-2nd year of a new coach, and many of the youth football coaches talking up wrestling.

Again, lets start punishing everyone because of someone else's problems.

[Jimmy]

I have a ?. Where do they come up with the weights. If they use skin fold weights then they are not accurate, kids have already cut. Do they use the whole student body on a random day or just wrestlers weights?

[Ghetto]

Ghetto,
What's your response that the drop in numbers matching enrollment numbers state wide?

I think there are a lot of factors in why less kids wrestle than back in the day.

Lower enrollment certainly plays a factor. You can see that just by looking at the D3 schools who are pulling from a very small pool of kids.

We also have more competition. WFB has wrestling, basketball, bowling, swimming, ski team and hockey in the winter for boys to do. When I was in school we had wrestling, swimming, or basketball.

Specialization also doesn't help.

After that are a million excuses that basically add up to "I'm not mentally and/or physically tough enough".

[Ghetto]

I have a ?. Where do they come up with the weights. If they use skin fold weights then they are not accurate, kids have already cut. Do they use the whole student body on a random day or just wrestlers weights?

No clue.