On Guillotine, varsity numbers...

[benrud3]

Many sports are built at the youth level. One thing I see hurting our numbers is cost. It costs $100 for youth to sign up in our program. That's just to get started. There are many parents that can't afford that. There are also many parents that will not sign their child up because of the "what if they don't like it?" They just spent $100 so that their child could "try" our great sport and now they aren't interested. On top of the sign up costs you have shoes, singlets, entry fees, travel expenses, etc. I think we could do more to try to attract young kids and their families and then do our best to make sure these kids and families keep interested. This starts at the youth club level. Of course there are a multitude of reasons and this is just one thing I see.

[padre]

Many sports are built at the youth level. One thing I see hurting our numbers is cost. It costs $100 for youth to sign up in our program. That's just to get started. There are many parents that can't afford that. There are also many parents that will not sign their child up because of the "what if they don't like it?" They just spent $100 so that their child could "try" our great sport and now they aren't interested. On top of the sign up costs you have shoes, singlets, entry fees, travel expenses, etc. I think we could do more to try to attract young kids and their families and then do our best to make sure these kids and families keep interested. This starts at the youth club level. Of course there are a multitude of reasons and this is just one thing I see.

I don't think 100.00 is the norm for youth wrestling clubs. Ours is $45.00 for 4 months and you get a free $40.00 USA card.

[crossface21]

I don't see the sense in the argument that reducing weight classes will reduce opportunities. That's why there is JV. Just because a kid is on JV doesn't mean they aren't getting an opportunity. Will good kids get squeezed out? Yup. Will a lot of kids on varsity have a better chance to develop on JV rather than get thrown in a varsity lineup? Yup. Will FF's be reduced? Yup. Will there be complaining? Yup. I'm in the camp that I never thought they should have gone to 14 in the first place.

This is an off the wall idea, what if the entire state was mandated to take their hydration test in a certain time period, ex the week of Nov 14-Nov18. Based off of all that data that is entered into a program, they announce what the seasons weight classes will be based off of the weights of all the kids in the state on like Nov. 22. Every season there would be different weights(or do it every 2 seasons), but at least the weights would match up with where we have the wrestlers.

[bigoil]

Many sports are built at the youth level. One thing I see hurting our numbers is cost. It costs $100 for youth to sign up in our program. That's just to get started. There are many parents that can't afford that. There are also many parents that will not sign their child up because of the "what if they don't like it?" They just spent $100 so that their child could "try" our great sport and now they aren't interested. On top of the sign up costs you have shoes, singlets, entry fees, travel expenses, etc. I think we could do more to try to attract young kids and their families and then do our best to make sure these kids and families keep interested. This starts at the youth club level. Of course there are a multitude of reasons and this is just one thing I see.

Move to Wrightstown, zero club costs and 4 tournaments paid for, my daughter pays $140 for 7 hoops tournaments.  Wrightstown MS and HS -  No cost to participate in any sport.

[crossface21]

Many sports are built at the youth level. One thing I see hurting our numbers is cost. It costs $100 for youth to sign up in our program. That's just to get started. There are many parents that can't afford that. There are also many parents that will not sign their child up because of the "what if they don't like it?" They just spent $100 so that their child could "try" our great sport and now they aren't interested. On top of the sign up costs you have shoes, singlets, entry fees, travel expenses, etc. I think we could do more to try to attract young kids and their families and then do our best to make sure these kids and families keep interested. This starts at the youth club level. Of course there are a multitude of reasons and this is just one thing I see.

Move to Wrightstown, zero club costs and 4 tournaments paid for, my daughter pays $140 for 7 hoops tournaments.  Wrightstown MS and HS -  No cost to participate in any sport.

Who pays for all of that? Is it the school district? Park and Rec?

[Ghetto]

wow!   I like those weights and they are backed up by data!

I might tweak the upper weights a bit and lower 221 to 215 or even 210 and drop 194 to 190.  makes it a bit easier for kids that are wrestling up to fill those weight classes.

they are not backed up by any data....each year when Ghetto does his yearly cry to cut weight classes I go through track and count which weight classses has the most FF....it is rarely ever 106....so why would you want to take away the lightest weight class for the kids whom most only get to wrestle because of their size.  We are doing something wron if when we have D1 schools with only 7 wrestlers!!!   Lets look at that problem and find a way to fix.....the fix isn't going down to 7 weight classes...it figuring out why kids in those schools are not participating and finding way to get them to participate and retain them...lets start with the middle school programs....take a look at those same schools and their middle school programs generally mimic their high school programs.

Oh Aaron, maybe you should ask questions before you assume.

They are absolutely backed by data. The WIAA gave me access to all the body fat tests for the past five years. I'd be happy to send you the spreadsheet. It has all the kids who have body fat tested and what they weighed on the date of the test.

Thanks for the confidence though.

[aarons23]

wow!   I like those weights and they are backed up by data!

I might tweak the upper weights a bit and lower 221 to 215 or even 210 and drop 194 to 190.  makes it a bit easier for kids that are wrestling up to fill those weight classes.

they are not backed up by any data....each year when Ghetto does his yearly cry to cut weight classes I go through track and count which weight classses has the most FF....it is rarely ever 106....so why would you want to take away the lightest weight class for the kids whom most only get to wrestle because of their size.  We are doing something wron if when we have D1 schools with only 7 wrestlers!!!   Lets look at that problem and find a way to fix.....the fix isn't going down to 7 weight classes...it figuring out why kids in those schools are not participating and finding way to get them to participate and retain them...lets start with the middle school programs....take a look at those same schools and their middle school programs generally mimic their high school programs.

Oh Aaron, maybe you should ask questions before you assume.

They are absolutely backed by data. The WIAA gave me access to all the body fat tests for the past five years. I'd be happy to send you the spreadsheet. It has all the kids who have body fat tested and what they weighed on the date of the test.

Thanks for the confidence though.

The data doesnt support any specific weight classes....no matter how you twist it....so by cutting weight classes your not increasing participation but trying to take opportunities from teams who have participation.  So if I cant beat your team...lets reduce the number of participants you have to equal it out???

[Ghetto]

All I did was take the body fat tests for the last five years, put them in one long line, and divide them into 12 categories equally. That's what the weights are when divided equally by 12. I think you'd be surprised that dividing it by 14 doesn't really change the lowest weight much. I'll post it tomorrow from school, where I have the data.

I twisted nothing. I wrestled 98 to 119, so I am partial to little guys. The data does not support the weights we have. It's that simple.

It's never been about my team.

[bigoil]

Many sports are built at the youth level. One thing I see hurting our numbers is cost. It costs $100 for youth to sign up in our program. That's just to get started. There are many parents that can't afford that. There are also many parents that will not sign their child up because of the "what if they don't like it?" They just spent $100 so that their child could "try" our great sport and now they aren't interested. On top of the sign up costs you have shoes, singlets, entry fees, travel expenses, etc. I think we could do more to try to attract young kids and their families and then do our best to make sure these kids and families keep interested. This starts at the youth club level. Of course there are a multitude of reasons and this is just one thing I see.

Youth Wrestling Free - wrestling club
School Sports Free - School

I thought we missed paying the first year of school sports. Heck I remember at Me. Falls in the 80's we paid  $40 for one sport, I think there was a family cap, etc. but 30 years ago it was t free.

Move to Wrightstown, zero club costs and 4 tournaments paid for, my daughter pays $140 for 7 hoops tournaments.  Wrightstown MS and HS -  No cost to participate in any sport.

Who pays for all of that? Is it the school district? Park and Rec?

Youth Wrestling Free - wrestling club
School Sports Free - School

I thought we missed paying the first year of school sports. Heck I remember at Me. Falls in the 80's we paid  $40 for one sport, I think there was a family cap, etc. but 30 years ago it wasn't free for me that's why I was very surprised.

[lizard king]

With so many weight classes kids expect to be on varsity, even if they are first year.

[Handles II]

With so many weight classes kids expect to be on varsity, even if they are first year.

Very interesting point, and yes, in too many cases they are on varsity but don't belong. Tightening of the weights might help keep these guys (and their expectations) on JV.

I had a conversation with a parent and wrestler from another team this weekend. They asked my opinion of wrestling JV for this 2nd year 10th grader, who has been wrestling varsity most of last year and this year to fill a weight, if it was a good or bad idea. I said "You are in 10th grade, you should be wrestling at least some JV so you can better gauge your abilities and work your techniques. Look at your 10th grade football players, baskeball players, they are JV all year, so yes, talk to your coaches about it."

[Ghetto]

For all you data nerds (and yes I am one of them):

Kids bodyfat tested for the past 5 years...

2011-2012   8946
2012-2013   8985
2013-2014   8797
2014-2015   8357
2015-2016   8007

Total            43092


Taking those 43092 kids, and dividing them equally between 12, 13, and 14 equal groups to build weight classes...

14 weights                           13 weights                               12 weights
113                                      113                                         114
122                                      123                                         124
128                                      130                                         131
134                                      136                                         138
140                                      142                                         144
145                                      148                                         151
151                                      154                                         158
157                                      161                                         167
164                                      170                                         178
173                                      181                                         194
184                                      197                                         221
200                                      224                                         285
226                                      285
285

After looking at that, where are all these kids who weigh 200 to 285. Do they bodyfat then quit?

[DocWrestling]

I know I always stir up controversy with these thoughts of mine but I still think the data needs to be broken down further.  We should not have the same weight classes for varsity as we do JV.  The kids are different in sizes.  In every sport the JV team is smaller than the varsity team!

Varsity weight classes should be built off of what juniors and seniors weigh.
JV weight classes should be built off of what freshman and sophomores weigh.

I like the idea of using data and even have the weight classes change each year.

Just call them weight class 1, weight class 2, etc up to how many classes you have.

Using the actual weights makes no sense anyway when we give growth lbs and allowance lbs.

[bkraus]

For all you data nerds (and yes I am one of them):

Kids bodyfat tested for the past 5 years...

2011-2012   8946
2012-2013   8985
2013-2014   8797
2014-2015   8357
2015-2016   8007

Total            43092


Taking those 43092 kids, and dividing them equally between 12, 13, and 14 equal groups to build weight classes...

14 weights                           13 weights                               12 weights
113                                      113                                         114
122                                      123                                         124
128                                      130                                         131
134                                      136                                         138
140                                      142                                         144
145                                      148                                         151
151                                      154                                         158
157                                      161                                         167
164                                      170                                         178
173                                      181                                         194
184                                      197                                         221
200                                      224                                         285
226                                      285
285

After looking at that, where are all these kids who weigh 200 to 285. Do they bodyfat then quit?

I like what you have here, but don't like the 113 as the lowest weight class.  Being a (former) little guy we still need some sort of class for the small kids.  I know it was a JV tourney last weekend, but there were 10 kids under 100 pounds.  At least 105 or there about.

[aarons23]

Your division of weight classes is just a math problem....has no bearing on what kids actually weigh....thus....it will do nothing but hurt programs that have worked to achieve the numbers.....its not just about math....if you want a real discussion about cutting weight classes you need to include the number of ff per existing weight class.   Then Ill go back to....please tell me which 106# in the last 5 years didnt deserve their state title? Or even their state p l acement or qualifying?