Big Ten Network is killing UW-Madison wrestling

[TomM]

Closest thing to real wrestling on tv was Roy Rodgers or Bat Masterson in a fist fight with some bad guy.

[imnofish]

When I was growing up in Northwestern Illinois (in the 60's), we could get Iowa Public TV channels.  We watched all the Iowa and Iowa State meets for free.  Illinois PBS did absolutely nothing to promote college wrestling.  Guess where most of the top wrestlers from Illinois wrestled in college?

[bigG]

Syracuse?

[imnofish]

Syracuse?

Great guess...   but wrong!   

[billymurphy]

This is the weakest excuse I have heard yet on why Wisconsin
did not finish in the top 20.  Blame the TV.

[OneEyedFatMan]

Billy,

We're discussing the marketing of wrestling to the masses.

A friend of mine who was a high school blue chipper went to Iowa instead of Wisconsin, Oklahoma State, Iowa State mostly because he wanted to perform in front of huge crowds for a great coach (Gable, of course) and a team with a winning style.

You don't get huge crowds by not marketing via mass media. The newspapers do a poor job of consistently covering wrestling, television and radio are worse. The internet is all we have presently (God Bless Shane Sparks).

Look at what basketball has done. I mean really. The same goal every time...put the ball in the net. There aren't very many ways to get the ball in the net.
Boring to say the least. At least in wrestling there are many ways to make the score happen. Yet, they've marketed bball as something to aspire to. The popular girls generally want to cheer-lead for it BECAUSE of the crowds. The most athletic boys try out and risk rejection to be on the team, to have the spotlight.

Pro Wrestling?  Pul-ease....and yet, look at the viewership it has.

Amateur wrestling doesn't offer much of a spotlight in our culture, except maybe in Iowa City, Stillwater and State College these days. Kudos to J Robinson and Tom Ryan for bringing Minny and tOSU up to snuff over the years.

Mass Media is what wrestling needs. Consistently, so the public is educated on the rules and can enjoy some excitement when something happens.

This is the weakest excuse I have heard yet on why Wisconsin
did not finish in the top 20.  Blame the TV.

[MarkK]

What I am saying is that since the btn took complete control of the programming of the sport you can no longer watch free matches online from the schools.  Iowa PBS doesn't carry it any more.  For free I could get most of the matches.  Now for $10 bucks A month I cannot get those same matches.  I can't watch them later.  Unless people complain they think we are happy with that.  As a public 8nstitution my taxpayer money supports that school and it was getting better by having free matches online.  Now I think it is not better.  Being nickel and dimed for an inferior product.  Instead of showing a basketball game from 2004 maybe a replay of a match from last night that you couldn't watch would be better.  The btn in my opinion is satisfied with taking our money and giving us less .  At least less than a quality product.  I will take the free feeds from a couple of years ago over the btn. 

[bigG]

Syracuse?

Great guess...   but wrong!   

DANG!!!

[imnofish]

My point is that the positive results of promotion through easily-accessed coverage were evident in the past; the loss of that has been detrimental to the sport.  For all the great wrestlers developed through Illinois prep wrestling, it is appalling that their college programs lag so far behind.  The state's media has traditionally had a love affair with basketball, despite the fact that their best potential is actually found in wrestling.  Most media outlets are too lazy to learn about the sport of wrestling, or fail to see the long-term financial opportunities it could generate with proper coverage and promotion.  It wasn't that long ago that soccer was largely unknown and unappreciated in the USA, but the media did the work and made the investments required to promote its development.  Why?  Because there was money inherent in the pre-developed worldwide market for the sport.  Wrestling has failed to create such a dynamic, unfortunately.  Until there is such a vehicle for wrestling, media coverage will lag.

[Barou]

My point is that the positive results of promotion through easily-accessed coverage were evident in the past; the loss of that has been detrimental to the sport.  For all the great wrestlers developed through Illinois prep wrestling, it is appalling that their college programs lag so far behind.  The state's media has traditionally had a love affair with basketball, despite the fact that their best potential is actually found in wrestling.  Most media outlets are too lazy to learn about the sport of wrestling, or fail to see the long-term financial opportunities it could generate with proper coverage and promotion.  It wasn't that long ago that soccer was largely unknown and unappreciated in the USA, but the media did the work and made the investments required to promote its development.  Why?  Because there was money inherent in the pre-developed worldwide market for the sport.  Wrestling has failed to create such a dynamic, unfortunately.  Until there is such a vehicle for wrestling, media coverage will lag.

Absolutely it will lag.  The media will cover wrestling when it's worth covering.  Carver Hawkeye sells out duals and people are interested so the media covers it.  I live in the La Crosse area and the La Crosse Tribune reports nothing on UW wrestling because there is little to no market for it.  They cover UW-L and do a descent job.  If more people showed up at UW-L dual meets, the coverage would get better.  They do a fantastic job covering area HS kids at the state tournament because the buzz is there.  Like it or not, there is no buzz for Badger wrestling right now.  The only people interested in them in my area are me and a handful of other people.  One of the many reasons I'm an advocate for change in the HC ranks is because nobody knows Barry Davis.  Right, wrong, or indifferent unless they are a wrestling person they have no idea who he is.  Ask the average sports guy if they know Barry Davis or Ben Askren and you are guaranteed to get more people who know Ben Askren.  Around here anyway.  Reason is because he was a wisconsin guy who was successful and colorful in college and just so happened to wrestle at Bi-State in high school.  And he has name recognition in the MMA crowd. 

I do think, however, that the increased coverage by ESPN for the national tournament is a fantastic sign!  They are showing it because they see people are tuning in.  They aren't just doing wrestling a favor they don't do charity work.  It's a win-win.  They continue to increase their coverage and us fans get to reap the benefits and if that pays off for them, so be it.  Actually really impressive as it's the same weekend of the NCAA basketball tournament (that's an argument for another day).

I do wonder what the ratings look like for Big Ten duals and the Big Ten tournament for the BTN.  I assumed that ratings were good since they seem to add more events every year.  However, I would have thought by now that there would be more coverage for the Big Ten tournament than just the finals.

[MarkK]

I agree Barou the NCAA wrestling tournament coverage by ESPN was excellent.  Every mat every match even different coverage for the same match in the finals.   I thought that was great.

[DocWrestling]

ESPN, BTN, etc did not believe there was a market/viewers for wrestling.

ESPN was forced to put the NCAA finals on through a negotiation where the NCAA said they had to televise championships of all sports if they wanted other programming.  ESPN has since learned that there is a market for wrestling, softball, college baseball, etc and has expanded the coverage of all of those.  They now cover every match of the NCAA tourney,  That seems unfathomable 5 years ago.

BTN is also learning there is a market.  Unfortunately their model is different and they are looking to make money in a different way.  I think there coverage will grow to having every dual on-line to having big duals live and to going to a Friday night show that expands what they are doing now and shows every big match from the week before.

Kind of like Flowrestling and Trackwrestling realizing the market is there and trying to make money of their content to consumers.

Wrestling is evolving and marketing is happening.  We cannot really worry about newspapers anymore because they are so short handed and a dying breed. 

[stp]

Look at what basketball has done. I mean really. The same goal every time...put the ball in the net. There aren't very many ways to get the ball in the net.
Boring to say the least. At least in wrestling there are many ways to make the score happen.  

That makes zero sense.    To the general public wrestling is a lot more boring than bball, look at tv ratings.    Quite frankly, bball has more (exciting) options to score than wrestling.    In wrestling, you either take down an opponent or reverse them to score.  

The details of how you score becomes interesting to fans, which is the same thing for bball or wrestling.  

This past NCAA finals was possibly the greatest ever and yet it was the lowest ratings ESPN has received since covering all rounds.

*I think wrestling singlets turn off many people from watching.
         

[imnofish]

Look at what basketball has done. I mean really. The same goal every time...put the ball in the net. There aren't very many ways to get the ball in the net.
Boring to say the least. At least in wrestling there are many ways to make the score happen.  

That makes zero sense.    To the general public wrestling is a lot more boring than bball, look at tv ratings.    Quite frankly, bball has more (exciting) options to score than wrestling.    In wrestling, you either take down an opponent or reverse them to score.  

The details of how you score becomes interesting to fans, which is the same thing for bball or wrestling.  

This past NCAA finals was possibly the greatest ever and yet it was the lowest ratings ESPN has received since covering all rounds.

*I think wrestling singlets turn off many people from watching.
         

Boredom comes from a lack of understanding.  Basketball is easy for the masses to watch, without really knowing squat about it.  We are a lazy society; three points for a single scoring attempt is apparently the limit of many people's numerical intelligence.  Wrestling requires a more technical comprehension of scoring than simply repeatedly getting the same object through a defined space (hoop).  Lazy journalism does little to educate viewers about how wrestling actually works, unfortunately.  If people can be convinced that soccer is exciting, with its looooonnnng, but low-scoring format, wrestling concepts could be taught with the appropriate level of research and effort.  That has improved lately, but we still have a long way to go.

[Barou]

Look at what basketball has done. I mean really. The same goal every time...put the ball in the net. There aren't very many ways to get the ball in the net.
Boring to say the least. At least in wrestling there are many ways to make the score happen.  

That makes zero sense.    To the general public wrestling is a lot more boring than bball, look at tv ratings.    Quite frankly, bball has more (exciting) options to score than wrestling.    In wrestling, you either take down an opponent or reverse them to score.  

The details of how you score becomes interesting to fans, which is the same thing for bball or wrestling.  

This past NCAA finals was possibly the greatest ever and yet it was the lowest ratings ESPN has received since covering all rounds.

*I think wrestling singlets turn off many people from watching.
         

Where did you see the ratings? I believe you are right I'd just like to see the ratings and how they compare.