No more waiting!!!

[littleguy301]

I actually would like to see 13 weight classes.

Reason, then duals dont have to go to the 8th critiea to decide a winner. Easy to pick out winners in matches wrestled.

I would combine the 95 and 220 class and then stretch out the 60, 70, 82 alittle and there we go.

The simple math shows that wrestling cannt support the 14 weight classes on the average plain and simple. If it is truely about the kids then I say go with it but the WIAA has proven over time it is not so then I will argue for less weight classes.

I have said before have 2 divisions in wrestling 1 with 14 classes and 1 with less like 12. I think that is a fair assessment of the situation. It doesnt matter school size if you have enough to support 14 weights than go for it.

Lessening weight classes wouldnt go far with the AD types out there. Most AD are not wrestling people and usually turn to the coaches or wrestling fan for questions about wrestling.

I think what gets most AD is when they go to a meet and see that 1 school or both only have 10 matches wrestled and 4 classes with no wrestlers they wonder why they cannt field a team. basketball wouldnt think of starting a game with only 4 players. I have heard of school FF baseball and softball games because they only have 7 or less players in school that day because of illness or other things.

Wrestling is the only sport which the school will pay for transportation and refs if you only have 1 wrestler.

In the past year I have heard about a few dual that were cancelled because of no wrestlers matching up. Example one school had a 06, 13 pounder and the other had a 45 and 60 pounder. So it would have been FF all the way down the list. That alone will raise the eyebrows of AD and administration.

I know of more than 1 AD that has talked about having less weight classes because it doesnt look good to have all these FF.

So the reduction in weight classes will not raise the eyebrows like people thing of the AD and administration.

[guillotine]

So here is our yearly lets give up and start reducing arguement.  Sorry won't buy it.  Random Lake, Stratford and Coleman prove small schools can recruit and do recruit to get the numbers.  No excuse for big schools to just throw in the towel.  No excuse for wrestling to give AD's and school boards the idea its a dying sport.  It takes work, its takes the right people in the right places, it takes many to grow programs.  Pretty sure I read just a couple of weeks ago that wrestling is on the rise in popularity and numbers.  Don't be so quick to give up and give in....that is not what this sport is about.

Recruit from where? Another school?

I get it to recruit from with in your district 100%. But the ugly thing is that school are recruiting from other districts. While that is helping one team get better it is also slowly eliminating the competition from other schools. Sure 1 school gets better but the schools that are losing wrestlers get worse.

I am not saying giving in but this is a honest look at numbers. If we continue to think it is alright to FF multi weights than lets go forward.

Having school give up 2-4 weights a meet will open the AD eyes alot more than a reduction of weight classes.

Not sure where to go with this either.

First off Coleman and RL are the exception in D3. Although Stratford has things going the right way now they have had their struggles in the past before. You have to also look at the fact that Stratford and Random lake are two of the largest schools by enrollment in D3. Cut their enrollment in half and then see if they have the same continuity.
LG is right, certain teams are recruiting from others and the problem is going to be some of those schools are going to lose their programs.
Colfax is trying to go on their own and start their own wrestling program which is very commendable and is very good for our sport. Rumor is that two of Colfax's top 8th grade wrestlers have jumped ship and are heading to Boyceville to join the other 5-6 "open enrolled" kids they have on their team. I assume this will make Colfax's attempt to start a program of their own a lot more difficult.  Parents and wrestlers have every right to do what's best for themselves but it definitely isn't whats best for our sport.

[gijd]

Not easy to build programs like Coleman, Random Lake, and Stratford. Hats off to those schools and many others that have built a culture for wrestling in their communities but it's not that easy in other places no matter who is in charge. Our school is in the low 200's for enrollment and declining every year, 10 years ago we were over 300. Our school co-ops with another community in hockey (which hurts), and then of course there is basketball, which seems to run its program for 6 months. Then on top of that the majority of our wrestlers over the past 20-25 years have left the area after graduation (no reason to come back it there aren't jobs in the area) and you have the perfect storm that hurts you when trying to build a competitive program year in and year out. Sure there are years where you might have a decent team but it's hard to sustain with other sports trying to recruit the same kids. Don't mean to whine, but having 14 weight classes to fill in small communities with declining enrollment is hard to do and then on top of that try justifying that to people in charge that don't have a clue about wrestling on why you should be able to have a wrestling team in your district. Just take hockey for instance, how many of the top division 2 and 3 schools offer hockey with basketball and wrestling. I'm sure there are some that do, just wondering how successful they are on getting kids out for wrestling with an enrollment under 300 and trying to build a wrestling team?

[Ghetto]

I'm going to say if you win 2 out of every 10 matches or less, you aren't a varsity kid.

[gablesgrip1]

Was in the coaches meeting at the Mineral Point division 3 sectional.  The one and only topic brought up was the number of weight classes.  Coach steldt mentioned that he would like it to be 11.  I would be on board with that, but being realistic, start with 13.  Coach Schmitz commented that it is the larger states that want to keep it at 14, California, Illinios, etc.  One other thing i would like to point out is look at alot of the division 1 schools that are co-ops.

[CoachZ]

So here is our yearly lets give up and start reducing arguement.  Sorry won't buy it.  Random Lake, Stratford and Coleman prove small schools can recruit and do recruit to get the numbers.  No excuse for big schools to just throw in the towel.  No excuse for wrestling to give AD's and school boards the idea its a dying sport.  It takes work, its takes the right people in the right places, it takes many to grow programs.  Pretty sure I read just a couple of weeks ago that wrestling is on the rise in popularity and numbers.  Don't be so quick to give up and give in....that is not what this sport is about.

Recruit from where? Another school?

I get it to recruit from with in your district 100%. But the ugly thing is that school are recruiting from other districts. While that is helping one team get better it is also slowly eliminating the competition from other schools. Sure 1 school gets better but the schools that are losing wrestlers get worse.

I am not saying giving in but this is a honest look at numbers. If we continue to think it is alright to FF multi weights than lets go forward.

Having school give up 2-4 weights a meet will open the AD eyes alot more than a reduction of weight classes.

Not sure where to go with this either.

First off Coleman and RL are the exception in D3. Although Stratford has things going the right way now they have had their struggles in the past before. You have to also look at the fact that Stratford and Random lake are two of the largest schools by enrollment in D3. Cut their enrollment in half and then see if they have the same continuity.
LG is right, certain teams are recruiting from others and the problem is going to be some of those schools are going to lose their programs.
Colfax is trying to go on their own and start their own wrestling program which is very commendable and is very good for our sport. Rumor is that two of Colfax's top 8th grade wrestlers have jumped ship and are heading to Boyceville to join the other 5-6 "open enrolled" kids they have on their team. I assume this will make Colfax's attempt to start a program of their own a lot more difficult.  Parents and wrestlers have every right to do what's best for themselves but it definitely isn't whats best for our sport.

That's part of the problem too, some of these smaller schools with the tradition aren't just recruiting their own hallways.  It also seems attitudes are a tad different these days. There appears to be more of a "if we can't beat them, let's join them" attitude. So a smaller school which has lower numbers and then their best wrestler decides to open enroll. It can be tough. I've witnessed it first hand.

As far as weight classes, why are there 10 in college and 14 in HS? I don't watch basketball but last time I did,  it was 5 starters in college and 5 starters in HS. 9 and 9 for baseball,  11 and 11 for football. Yes, I realize they have created 8 man football. Just asking why we have to have more starters? Maybe basketball in HS should have 7 starters so there is more opportunities for those kids. What the heck, let's put 12 out there on the diamond.

[DocWrestling]

I think wrestling would absolutely be awesome and improved if we went to 10 or 11 weight classes

[aarons23]

So here is our yearly lets give up and start reducing arguement.  Sorry won't buy it.  Random Lake, Stratford and Coleman prove small schools can recruit and do recruit to get the numbers.  No excuse for big schools to just throw in the towel.  No excuse for wrestling to give AD's and school boards the idea its a dying sport.  It takes work, its takes the right people in the right places, it takes many to grow programs.  Pretty sure I read just a couple of weeks ago that wrestling is on the rise in popularity and numbers.  Don't be so quick to give up and give in....that is not what this sport is about.

Recruit from where? Another school?

I get it to recruit from with in your district 100%. But the ugly thing is that school are recruiting from other districts. While that is helping one team get better it is also slowly eliminating the competition from other schools. Sure 1 school gets better but the schools that are losing wrestlers get worse.

I am not saying giving in but this is a honest look at numbers. If we continue to think it is alright to FF multi weights than lets go forward.

Having school give up 2-4 weights a meet will open the AD eyes alot more than a reduction of weight classes.

Not sure where to go with this either.

First off Coleman and RL are the exception in D3. Although Stratford has things going the right way now they have had their struggles in the past before. You have to also look at the fact that Stratford and Random lake are two of the largest schools by enrollment in D3. Cut their enrollment in half and then see if they have the same continuity.
LG is right, certain teams are recruiting from others and the problem is going to be some of those schools are going to lose their programs.
Colfax is trying to go on their own and start their own wrestling program which is very commendable and is very good for our sport. Rumor is that two of Colfax's top 8th grade wrestlers have jumped ship and are heading to Boyceville to join the other 5-6 "open enrolled" kids they have on their team. I assume this will make Colfax's attempt to start a program of their own a lot more difficult.  Parents and wrestlers have every right to do what's best for themselves but it definitely isn't whats best for our sport.

That's part of the problem too, some of these smaller schools with the tradition aren't just recruiting their own hallways.  It also seems attitudes are a tad different these days. There appears to be more of a "if we can't beat them, let's join them" attitude. So a smaller school which has lower numbers and then their best wrestler decides to open enroll. It can be tough. I've witnessed it first hand.

As far as weight classes, why are there 10 in college and 14 in HS? I don't watch basketball but last time I did,  it was 5 starters in college and 5 starters in HS. 9 and 9 for baseball,  11 and 11 for football. Yes, I realize they have created 8 man football. Just asking why we have to have more starters? Maybe basketball in HS should have 7 starters so there is more opportunities for those kids. What the heck, let's put 12 out there on the diamond.

Tradition is what we should be trying to build....not give up because other schools already have it.  The comparison to other sports isnt valid....wrestling isnt any other sport.  Its the one sport anyone can compete it....not just the big tall athletic kids.....

I understand the delema with numbers in d3 and am not opposed to fewer weights for duals in d3....the point with Stratford,  Coleman and Random Lake is with d3 numbers they make it work....no excuse for 2and 1.

[chuckref]

Yes make it like college.  The only thing I would do would add 117 and 109 because I like having a place for the smaller guys.  Although 11 would be ideal IMHO and again you could add 117.  The reality is that the NFHS is not going to change the weight classes and the WIAA is not going to go against the NFHS (unless it has to do with wristbands  ) 

Chuck

[Recon]

If you want 14 weight classes, how about two divisions and a few more co-ops.  Consider this:

I've gone to a few matches down here in the Chicago area and been impressed.  Many of the teams appear to have 40 or more kids on the team.  There are very few forfeits.  Most varsity wrestlers look like good varsity wrestlers.  (Disclaimer:  For as long as I've been off the mat, most wrestlers look like good wrestlers these days  )

So I looked up a few statistics on number of schools, number of wrestling teams, total participation and some enrollment data for a sample of top teams in each division between Wisconsin and Illinois.  Both states have three divisions for wrestling.  Illinois does allow smaller schools to wrestle in a higher division based on past success.

As of the 2014/2015 school year there were 334 teams and 7,074 participants in Wisconsin (21.17/team).  In Illinois there were 15,036 participants on 434 teams (34.64/team).  Basically you have 1.5 wrestlers/weight on the median Wisconsin team and just short of 2.5/weight in Illinois.

Illinois has the 5th most number of high schools and the 5th most number of high school students.  Wisconsin has the 12th most schools and 19th most students.  Wisconsin apparently has a lot of small schools.

The 100th largest high school in Illinois (Normal Community High School) has 1,945 students.  The 100th largest in Wisconsin (Wauwatosa West) has 1,031. 

Comparing enrollments at some of the top wrestling schools by division:

Illinois 1A (smallest)
Coal City (2016 runner up) - 646
Dakota (2016 champs) - 405

Wisconsin Division 3
Stratford - 282
Fennimore - 320

Illinois 2A
Marian (Runner up) - 1125
Washington - 1533

Wisconsin Division 2
Wisconsin Lutheran - 758
Ellsworth - 510

Illinois 3A
Marmion Academy (runner-up) - 513 (all boys)
Oak Park-River Forest - 3225

Wisconsin Division 1
Stoughton - 1056
Kaukauna - 1110

I don't know that there's a perfect answer, but when only a small percentage of your pool of teams (mostly in Division 2 and 3) is truly in the running for the state championship, something should probably be done.  Forfeits aren't beneficial to any wrestler either.     

[ramjet]

So here is our yearly lets give up and start reducing arguement.  Sorry won't buy it.  Random Lake, Stratford and Coleman prove small schools can recruit and do recruit to get the numbers.  No excuse for big schools to just throw in the towel.  No excuse for wrestling to give AD's and school boards the idea its a dying sport.  It takes work, its takes the right people in the right places, it takes many to grow programs.  Pretty sure I read just a couple of weeks ago that wrestling is on the rise in popularity and numbers.  Don't be so quick to give up and give in....that is not what this sport is about.

Poor argument because you name 3 Schools. That is a minority. Even Coleman is having numbers issues and are not as deep and they open enroll kids.

It's time to drop to 10 weights in D3. 12 if that is all that is sellable.

[ramjet]

So here is our yearly lets give up and start reducing arguement.  Sorry won't buy it.  Random Lake, Stratford and Coleman prove small schools can recruit and do recruit to get the numbers.  No excuse for big schools to just throw in the towel.  No excuse for wrestling to give AD's and school boards the idea its a dying sport.  It takes work, its takes the right people in the right places, it takes many to grow programs.  Pretty sure I read just a couple of weeks ago that wrestling is on the rise in popularity and numbers.  Don't be so quick to give up and give in....that is not what this sport is about.

Recruit from where? Another school?

I get it to recruit from with in your district 100%. But the ugly thing is that school are recruiting from other districts. While that is helping one team get better it is also slowly eliminating the competition from other schools. Sure 1 school gets better but the schools that are losing wrestlers get worse.

I am not saying giving in but this is a honest look at numbers. If we continue to think it is alright to FF multi weights than lets go forward.

Having school give up 2-4 weights a meet will open the AD eyes alot more than a reduction of weight classes.

Not sure where to go with this either.

First off Coleman and RL are the exception in D3. Although Stratford has things going the right way now they have had their struggles in the past before. You have to also look at the fact that Stratford and Random lake are two of the largest schools by enrollment in D3. Cut their enrollment in half and then see if they have the same continuity.
LG is right, certain teams are recruiting from others and the problem is going to be some of those schools are going to lose their programs.
Colfax is trying to go on their own and start their own wrestling program which is very commendable and is very good for our sport. Rumor is that two of Colfax's top 8th grade wrestlers have jumped ship and are heading to Boyceville to join the other 5-6 "open enrolled" kids they have on their team. I assume this will make Colfax's attempt to start a program of their own a lot more difficult.  Parents and wrestlers have every right to do what's best for themselves but it definitely isn't whats best for our sport.

That's part of the problem too, some of these smaller schools with the tradition aren't just recruiting their own hallways.  It also seems attitudes are a tad different these days. There appears to be more of a "if we can't beat them, let's join them" attitude. So a smaller school which has lower numbers and then their best wrestler decides to open enroll. It can be tough. I've witnessed it first hand.

As far as weight classes, why are there 10 in college and 14 in HS? I don't watch basketball but last time I did,  it was 5 starters in college and 5 starters in HS. 9 and 9 for baseball,  11 and 11 for football. Yes, I realize they have created 8 man football. Just asking why we have to have more starters? Maybe basketball in HS should have 7 starters so there is more opportunities for those kids. What the heck, let's put 12 out there on the diamond.

Tradition is what we should be trying to build....not give up because other schools already have it.  The comparison to other sports isnt valid....wrestling isnt any other sport.  Its the one sport anyone can compete it....not just the big tall athletic kids.....

I understand the delema with numbers in d3 and am not opposed to fewer weights for duals in d3....the point with Stratford,  Coleman and Random Lake is with d3 numbers they make it work....no excuse for 2and 1.

Schools will cut the programs before you can do this Aaron. Budgets are tight participation is down. Wake up.

[greysquirrelmobile]

I'm sure I'll get the Captain Obvious from some of you who know the process,  but this needs to be approved by the WWCA.   Then it needs to go through the WIAA advisory committee and then to the WIAA annual meeting.   The same process was used in basketball to create two halves instead of four quarters.   Start talking to your WWCA reps.   As far as conforming to NFHS,   Michigan still uses the 13 weight classes.  Do you know your rep. in both the WIAA and WWCA.   If you don't check with your coach and athletic director.   Your area WIAA  rep. is voted by the member schools representative.

[Barou]

So here is our yearly lets give up and start reducing arguement.  Sorry won't buy it.  Random Lake, Stratford and Coleman prove small schools can recruit and do recruit to get the numbers.  No excuse for big schools to just throw in the towel.  No excuse for wrestling to give AD's and school boards the idea its a dying sport.  It takes work, its takes the right people in the right places, it takes many to grow programs.  Pretty sure I read just a couple of weeks ago that wrestling is on the rise in popularity and numbers.  Don't be so quick to give up and give in....that is not what this sport is about.

Poor argument because you name 3 Schools. That is a minority. Even Coleman is having numbers issues and are not as deep and they open enroll kids.

It's time to drop to 10 weights in D3. 12 if that is all that is sellable.

+1 ramjet.  My proposal would be 105, 115....then college weight classes.  14 weight classes is really hurting our sport.  It's actually encouraging co-ops which I would think is not a good thing.  WWCA really needs to step up on this.

[Jzelinski]

The problem is what weights do you remove? You cant take 106 away, there are so many unreal small kids that deserve the chance so show their skills on the varsity level! I do not want to drop any weights but if you had to it would be in the middle. The problem is the forfeits come all throughout the line up not in one specific spot.

I think it would be a travesty if we dropped weight classes! Ghetto, I like and agree with you on most everything but taking weight classes away is not one I can get behind. Sorry!