Team vs indivdual

[Fabulous Falcons]

Here's the thing. . .none of you are viewing this subject clearly!

President Obama needs to give huge tax cuts to the family dairy farmer 75 cows or less. . .then the Pope needs to encourage proliferation of these family dairy farmers. Result is we get these families generating 10 or 12 kids (with half being boys) and the problem is solved.

Gee you guys need to start thinking outside the box. . .LOL

[imnofish]

Tried reading the whole thread, but skimmed some of it. Sorry, if this repetitious.  Adding three points:

1. My daughter almost couldn't play Freshman basketball this year, because the school had a hard time fielding a freshman team.  Almost half the games were canceled, because the other schools couldn't field freshman teams either.  I'm not sure it's JUST a wrestling thing.  

2. The wrestlers I know really like individual state, and they've been there.  I've heard them say they prefer team state.  They're crazy about having all hands on deck, and fighting for the  pride of their team, school and community.

3. This is a trick question.  There is no right answer, there are only the conclusions we draw from our unique experience.  Whether a person values team over individual state depends on the their personality, influence, program, school etc.  

Still...it's a good question, and the debate is enjoyable to read.

#1 team in NE Wisconsin girls basketball, Bayport, doesn't have a freshman team and probably 900 girls in the school. IMO you can thank club hoops 3-8th grade burning kids out and club volleyball stealing kids, specialization.

Most schools have added the number of sports they offer, while their enrollment has declined.  They don't dare cut any of the programs though, because kids will open enroll somewhere that offers that sport.

[shouldvewrestled]

"Biggest thing is do we use that as excuses to push individualization or put in the work to make sure the team, your community, your friends matter just as much? Wrestling teaches many great individual values why can't it also teach teamwork and putting others before yourself?"

Are you going to vote for Bernie???

Take it you're a Trump guy then.   Didn't know teaching to care about others was a bad thing?     If you call coaching all kids just as hard as your studs and putting team accomplishments ahead of individual, socialism; maybe I would vote for wrestling Bernie.

[ramjet]

Let me take another stab at this;

Open enrollment is not the issue although it does shore up good programs.

Team is important but all kids at least want to have hope they can compete. Wrestling is not sport that is kind to underachieving on an individual basis. You can make up some of that with team success. The team aspect comes inot play this way; Iron sharpens Iron.

Now back to the decline enrollment most other sports are adjusting however from the team aspect wrestling is not. The argument against cutting weight classes is it takes away opportunity. Well come on now Golf is not all that tough like wrestling so maybe to increase participation numbers in Golf we should put in 14 weight classes so more kids can qualify for state? Yea sounds crazy but that is the argument for not adjusting to the declining enrollment numbers.

I will use the NLC D3 school struggling mightily to put even 10 kids on the mat. But they come allot closer to 10 than 14 as do most D2-D3 schools do. Ghetto will post his annual numbers to show this I bet I am correct. If not I will admit it.

Now if they cut back on weight classes and take 4 kids from each Sectional the net effect will be close yes some will sit home. Guess what some do now.

Teams with smaller numbers become more competitive less opportunity to FF to a team win. Teams that have close competitive matches draw more folks and the interest increases the community involvement. That garners interest from the kids to part of it. Community fair weather fans want wins if they know that the 8 wrestlers they have will never win a dual because of the potential for FF they will not come to watch. If they feel that the team has chance and that team because FF are less significant with regards to the score they will cheer the kids on. That's reality but FF ruin the team aspect of this sport there is absolutely no question about that. I saw at least 3 duals that would have been close competitive matches if the opportunity for FF was removed because of open weights.

[MNbadger]

"Biggest thing is do we use that as excuses to push individualization or put in the work to make sure the team, your community, your friends matter just as much? Wrestling teaches many great individual values why can't it also teach teamwork and putting others before yourself?"

Are you going to vote for Bernie???

Take it you're a Trump guy then.   Didn't know teaching to care about others was a bad thing?     If you call coaching all kids just as hard as your studs and putting team accomplishments ahead of individual, socialism; maybe I would vote for wrestling Bernie.

No, I am not a Trump guy, far from it.  I m a Bernie guy.  I was jabbing at the righties on here that constantly are leading the charge for being independent and hating any thing they see as "socialism".  Team sports are incredibly "socialist" (by their definition).  Contadictory positioning to say the least.

[littleguy301]

I have been over looking one aspect of the team vs individual

Some schools dont even have enough kids in the room to fill all 14 weight classes so how in the world does a coach promote a team aspect when going into a meet they are giving up 2-4 forfeits. Better hope those kids that are going to wrestle can make up 12 to 24 points in matches wrestled!!!!

[MarkK]

I've seen them emphasize the head to head match ups and celebrate those.   The goal is to win the head to head matches.  I know it stinks but when you have that situation you have to make the most of it.

[littleguy301]

I've seen them emphasize the head to head match ups and celebrate those.   The goal is to win the head to head matches.  I know it stinks but when you have that situation you have to make the most of it.

yes you do but can you build that team up to think they are going to win.

You answered my question, you work on the individual aspect because you really cannt work on the team!!!!!

[MarkK]

It's a head game at this point Littleguy.  The team aspect has to be more about the camaraderie at that point rather than winning a dual.  Especially when it is mathematically impossible.  I don't think you ever should de-emphasize the team aspect.  Not that I think you are saying that.  But even the single competitor needs a teammate to get better.  I'm always amazed how a great individual will make all those around him/her on the team better.   

[shouldvewrestled]

"Biggest thing is do we use that as excuses to push individualization or put in the work to make sure the team, your community, your friends matter just as much? Wrestling teaches many great individual values why can't it also teach teamwork and putting others before yourself?"

Are you going to vote for Bernie???

Take it you're a Trump guy then.   Didn't know teaching to care about others was a bad thing?     If you call coaching all kids just as hard as your studs and putting team accomplishments ahead of individual, socialism; maybe I would vote for wrestling Bernie.

No, I am not a Trump guy, far from it.  I m a Bernie guy.  I was jabbing at the righties on here that constantly are leading the charge for being independent and hating any thing they see as "socialism".  Team sports are incredibly "socialist" (by their definition).  Contadictory positioning to say the least.

Gotcha.

[ramjet]

It's a head game at this point Littleguy.  The team aspect has to be more about the camaraderie at that point rather than winning a dual.  Especially when it is mathematically impossible.  I don't think you ever should de-emphasize the team aspect.  Not that I think you are saying that.  But even the single competitor needs a teammate to get better.  I'm always amazed how a great individual will make all those around him/her on the team better.   

MarkK you are wrong winning the dual is paramount to Team success very few if any teams go head to head if they can FF or pick up FF to win the dual. Less weight classes removes that potential making the dual more significant. Yes a good individual can make a team better or the kids just run from hi or her in practice. It happens both ways. Not sure what you are thinking or getting at here. Bottom line is the more quality guys in the room the better they all get. But for Team to be important winning is paramount. Camaraderie is always better win you win!!!!!!!!!

When you constantly loose because of FF and because teams can run from matches to get that win its loose loose for wrestling.

[MNbadger]

"Biggest thing is do we use that as excuses to push individualization or put in the work to make sure the team, your community, your friends matter just as much? Wrestling teaches many great individual values why can't it also teach teamwork and putting others before yourself?"

Are you going to vote for Bernie???

Take it you're a Trump guy then.   Didn't know teaching to care about others was a bad thing?     If you call coaching all kids just as hard as your studs and putting team accomplishments ahead of individual, socialism; maybe I would vote for wrestling Bernie.

No, I am not a Trump guy, far from it.  I m a Bernie guy.  I was jabbing at the righties on here that constantly are leading the charge for being independent and hating any thing they see as "socialism".  Team sports are incredibly "socialist" (by their definition).  Contadictory positioning to say the least.

Gotcha.

Not a "gotcha" at all.  Just facts.

[shouldvewrestled]

Not saying I got you, saying I understand what you meant.

[MNbadger]

Sorry... gotcha?

[couldhavebeen]

Little guy let's rewind 25 yrs ago and have your opinion of the team aspect in 1991......