weight class thoughts

Mack · December 22, 2015, 02:06:47 PM

Quote from: imwi on December 22, 2015, 01:38:13 PM
Quote from: Mack on December 22, 2015, 01:24:39 PM
Quote from: ramjet on December 22, 2015, 12:36:48 PM
Wrestle off.

Invite the parents to the wrestle off on full mats.

team mates remain neutral

regulation time.

controversy solved

neutral ref certified if possible

weigh in included

Exactly!!! You gotta give the parents time to make weight though. Because that's fair.

half a pound day....this could take a really long time

You got one parent at 150 and one at 350. That gives 350 more than a year to make weight. By then, they may not remember why they're wrestling off. Either way, problem solved.

billymurphy · December 22, 2015, 02:38:34 PM

The other parent is asking a legitimate question and all he wants is a fair answer.
Just be honest. Tell him what you have told us, that your son plans to stay
at his current weight and is considering dropping to 145 for conference, but
has not made up his mind yet.

Ivan Stankowski · December 22, 2015, 02:45:38 PM

Quote from: bulldog on December 22, 2015, 01:51:20 PM
Quote from: Ivan Stankowski on December 22, 2015, 11:57:31 AM
I have one question.

Why doesn't the coach have any say in this? Who is running the Team/Program? Very interesting!

I don't think it was indicated that the coach didn't have a say. The way I read it is that the parent has been bugging the other kid and his parents about dropping a weight class. I am guessing that the coach may have not even been aware of what this parent is doing. I don't think this is any type of reflection on the coach, team or program.

I have seen for years parents talking to each other before season to "get a feel" where kids on the team may be going. I don't think I have ever had a coach involved in these "on the side" conversations.

Let the coaches coach , let them decide where what kid should go where, I know that is a novel idea, but parents need to be parents and coaches shopuld be allowed to be coaches. Just Saying!!

oneshot · December 22, 2015, 03:24:13 PM

billymurphy: what you know here is what we have told the parent. AND we have told him that it is between the coach and the wrestler. We will offer our kid advice (as I assume any parent would do) but the coach and wrestler will figure it out how they want to handle it.

Ivan Stankowski: Yes, it is a novel idea. That wasn't the question or the issue. We were letting the coach coach. It was the other parent talking to the kid that is the problem. Are you suggesting we look at the parent and tell him to go talk to the coach? We have tried to stay out of it. We have told him it is the coaches decision...he still is sitting in the stands bitchin that his kid isn't getting the spot.

Mack and ramjet - I really came on this forum looking for advice...maybe you should start a thread that is labeled "pointless comments". I don't believe parents wrestling off for their kids weight class or challenging another parent will solve any problems.

The point was new kid in new school trying to fit in. Trying to handle a situation without telling a pushy parent to just back off.

And I am shocked that nobody seemed to have a problem with this dad talking to our son about his plans. To me that was stepping over the line.

Bkraus...thanks for being one of the few to actually offer advice.

Mack · December 22, 2015, 03:56:47 PM

Quote from: oneshot on December 22, 2015, 03:24:13 PM
billymurphy: what you know here is what we have told the parent. AND we have told him that it is between the coach and the wrestler. We will offer our kid advice (as I assume any parent would do) but the coach and wrestler will figure it out how they want to handle it.

Ivan Stankowski: Yes, it is a novel idea. That wasn't the question or the issue. We were letting the coach coach. It was the other parent talking to the kid that is the problem. Are you suggesting we look at the parent and tell him to go talk to the coach? We have tried to stay out of it. We have told him it is the coaches decision...he still is sitting in the stands bitchin that his kid isn't getting the spot.

Mack and ramjet - I really came on this forum looking for advice...maybe you should start a thread that is labeled "pointless comments". I don't believe parents wrestling off for their kids weight class or challenging another parent will solve any problems.

The point was new kid in new school trying to fit in. Trying to handle a situation without telling a pushy parent to just back off.

And I am shocked that nobody seemed to have a problem with this dad talking to our son about his plans. To me that was stepping over the line.

Bkraus...thanks for being one of the few to actually offer advice.

You are right, Oneshot. I am sorry I started that nonsense, for real. I don't actually think parent wrestle offs are a good answer.

foose4 · December 22, 2015, 04:35:59 PM

Quote from: Ivan Stankowski on December 22, 2015, 02:45:38 PM
Quote from: bulldog on December 22, 2015, 01:51:20 PM
Quote from: Ivan Stankowski on December 22, 2015, 11:57:31 AM
I have one question.

Why doesn't the coach have any say in this? Who is running the Team/Program? Very interesting!

I don't think it was indicated that the coach didn't have a say. The way I read it is that the parent has been bugging the other kid and his parents about dropping a weight class. I am guessing that the coach may have not even been aware of what this parent is doing. I don't think this is any type of reflection on the coach, team or program.

I have seen for years parents talking to each other before season to "get a feel" where kids on the team may be going. I don't think I have ever had a coach involved in these "on the side" conversations.

Let the coaches coach , let them decide where what kid should go where, I know that is a novel idea, but parents need to be parents and coaches shopuld be allowed to be coaches. Just Saying!!

Once the coach sets up how to decide who wrestles where on a team, you need to follow that rule. IF the coach says HE will decide where the kids wrestle, then HE will make that decision on a match by match basis. IF the coach decides that WRESTLE OFFS decide who gets each spot, then HE needs to set up the parameters of those wrestle offs and the team will follow that.

I am taking it that this coach decided wrestle offs are the way to go (which I agree). Then you need to follow those rules of the time and signing up of the wrestle offs which I believe all did.

I also agree that the parent of the kid that didn't win the spot but would like to get the spot when the wrestler that won moves down can talk to the other PARENT about this, but not repeatedly.

I also agree that that parent should NEVER talk to the other wrestler about it EVER. It's not his job at all to talk to another minor and ask that. He can talk to the parent (limited) and coach (up to coach on how limited). I know it's an emotional sport, but as a parent we need to be the responsible ones.

MidwestWI · December 23, 2015, 04:43:08 AM

I do think parents and kids not just from their own team but also parents and athletes from other teams frequently inquire about wrestlers and what weight they are going to wrestle for conference and in the upcoming year. In regards to just letting the coaches coach I would agree as long as as every kid is given a opportunity to compete and safety is taking into consideration. Every kid should be given a opportunity to compete for a varsity spot on the team not the coach saying this is the line up for the year before the year starts and there is nothing can be done for I am the coach. In regards to safety a coach shouldn't setup JV matches where a 95 lb kid wrestles a 127 lb or a 106 lbs wrestler wrestles a 139 lbs wrestler even for exhibition match unless the wrestlers and perhaps parents are ok with it due to weight differences. There should be no ramifications if the athletes choices not to participate in those matches.

As a parent I think everyone wants their child to have the same opportunity to wrestle just as everyone else not just have a weight class just given to a athlete that the coach wants to have a slot instead earned via a wrestle off. Otherwise that gives the appearance of favoritism and can cause animosity with the team. Then that's also teaching the kids their hard work in practice and their skills and talent doesn't matter. At that point you can and do have the coaches "athletes" dont practice all a previous week and the current week and still compete because the coach wants them at that weight slot because the coaches have the ultimate say so.

bulldog · December 23, 2015, 08:15:59 AM

Ivan...maybe i misunderstood your comment. If your comment was meant to tell oneshot to tell the other parent to "let the coaches coach" then I agree fully with your input. That is probably the best advice...

I think this thread is getting derailed somewhat. It has nothing to do with a coach...there is nothing in the original post about the involvement of the coach or nothing about the coach making the decision. As I understand it the coach was not even aware of the issue and it seems oneshot HAS discussed with the coach about their son's plans on what weight he is going to go.

The post was how to handle another parent pushing for something that in my opinion, he doesn't need to be involved in but as the NEW kid at the school oneshot is trying to handled a tough situation with kid gloves so as not to have his kid possibly alienated. Some guys are posting coaches should be making these decisions. That isn't the topic...

The situation we were involved in turned out the kid was going home and telling his dad that the coach would not give him a wrestle off. Somewhat true...the other kid was lbs overweight and the coach set rules that you had to be within 3 lbs of the weight you wanted to wrestle off for. I don't know why the dad didn't go talk to the coach...but he felt he would talk to us first. Again...we directed him to talk to the coach...then the truth came out

Ivan Stankowski · December 23, 2015, 08:18:51 AM

Quote from: bulldog on December 23, 2015, 08:15:59 AM
Ivan...maybe i misunderstood your comment. If your comment was meant to tell oneshot to tell the other parent to "let the coaches coach" then I agree fully with your input. That is probably the best advice...

I think this thread is getting derailed somewhat. It has nothing to do with a coach...there is nothing in the original post about the involvement of the coach or nothing about the coach making the decision. As I understand it the coach was not even aware of the issue and it seems oneshot HAS discussed with the coach about their son's plans on what weight he is going to go.

The post was how to handle another parent pushing for something that in my opinion, he doesn't need to be involved in but as the NEW kid at the school oneshot is trying to handled a tough situation with kid gloves so as not to have his kid possibly alienated. Some guys are posting coaches should be making these decisions. That isn't the topic...

The situation we were involved in turned out the kid was going home and telling his dad that the coach would not give him a wrestle off. Somewhat true...the other kid was lbs overweight and the coach set rules that you had to be within 3 lbs of the weight you wanted to wrestle off for. I don't know why the dad didn't go talk to the coach...but he felt he would talk to us first. Again...we directed him to talk to the coach...then the truth came out

BINGO we have a winner

bigG · December 23, 2015, 08:40:08 AM

Let the coach set the parameters. If you have no complaints with them at the start of the season, forever hold your peace. I think it's good practice to have a certain limit above a weight the kid wants to wrestle off for. You don't win the wrestle off, then cut. Unhealthy, IMHO.

Good coach!

Hillbilly · December 26, 2015, 11:43:27 PM

Wrestling is an individual sport where they keep team points. In the end do what's best for your kid. I noticed that you said you moved into a new town. If you're from another state the weight classes change in Wisconsin as the year goes on. They move up 1 lb then another lb. Also know that you can only cut 1/2 lb per day. So if your kid wants to move down in weight be sure there wasn't a weigh in a few days before.

For anyone who says a coach should decide where a kid wrestles... Nope. Only if it's a dual meet to qualify for state. That's the only time. Individual qualifiers, or dual meets like conference meets, or triangulars or tournaments, that's a parent/wrestler decision. Only team regional, sectionals, and state should a coach get a say. Then he should only be moving kids up in weight not down.

Dale Einerson · December 28, 2015, 10:12:51 AM

Quote from: Oldtimer on December 21, 2015, 09:50:32 AM
Where Dale Einerson... He may have went through this when they moved to Rapids.

Lodi, Rapids, University of Dubuque, UWL...same answer. It is up to the Coach.

Every Coach has their own way of taking all into consideration and managing the individual athletes and the teams they look after. It isn't a simple answer, but the Coach typically wants to put the best team on the mat and the competition in a dual or tournament may mean some moving around anyway. Further, some wrestlers may perform far better at higher weight classes, rather than cutting down, which tends to be further enhanced by the bell curve as you move away in any direction from 152...

Moving to a new district, or Freshmen entering the team, kids growing significantly, or the heavies that drop considerably after working rigorously, all create unique challenges for Coaches, athletes, parents and fans. And, one of the best parts of wrestling v any other sport...the wrestle offs.

Sadly, we did see 1 or 2 very accomplished wrestlers with state experience and state placement accomplishments not continue with the team in Rapids. Come team tournament time they would have had significant impacts and likely would have relished the team accomplishments...this from a 5'6" Senior in high school that was the 12th man on the basketball team.

oneshot · December 28, 2015, 10:47:24 AM

Thanks for the input Dale....FYI, After several weeks of the parent hounding us and our kid about where he was going and and when he was going there we finally told the other parent that the decision was not ours. It was between our kid and the coach to make the decision as to what was best for the wrestler and best for the team.

That got the parent off our backs and onto the coaches. Maybe we kind of "passed the buck". From what I have been told, the coach told the other parent that the spot was our kids as long as he wanted to stay there but anytime any wrestler wanted to challenge for a wrestle off for the spot it could be challenged. (There are some rules that the team has pertaining wrestle offs). I guess the coach told the other parent that if his son wanted the spot he would have to challenge for a wrestle off or wait and see if the spot opened up.

It seems to have ended the questioning...not sure if there are hard feelings but I guess we cannot be concerned about that. Seemed pretty simple from the beginning

Dale Einerson · December 28, 2015, 11:05:00 AM

I personally don't see it as passing the buck, I see it as recognizing and respecting the Coaches who work so hard and long with these guys.

There are life lessons in here. While this is just a wrestling season, the takeaways can last a lifetime...from, there is always somebody better, to, what did you do in the off season to prepare, to, how you handle this will say a lot about the character you are developing...

I just recalled Logan's Freshman year. He certified at 119; so did Tony Madigan, and Jake Madigan was at 125. So, Logan wrestled 130. For the most part went well. Was a rougher start when all of those guys bumped up to avoid Jake to get to the Freshman, but by the end of the year Logan was more than holding his own. Didn't make it to state, some studs from Dodgeville and River Valley saw to that, that and the fact only 2 come out of Regionals in D2...but he survived, and so did we. He grew up; so did I.

It strikes me that we all like to say wrestling is the best sport and one of the reasons is the character building that goes on, sometimes character is built in disappointment. Making it temporary is probably the key.

bulldog · December 28, 2015, 11:24:13 AM

Well thought out and well said Dale...I agree...it was not passing the buck, just directing the question to the person that should be answering it.