Food For Thought

jaguarwrestler · March 23, 2015, 08:51:38 AM

Mr. Negative chiming in

based on seeds we where predicted to finish 7th

we finished 17th

that is 10 spots below prediction

3 other teams Northwestern, ODU and Pitt finished 4 spots below predictions based on seeds

so UW dropped 10 spots, and the next closest team dropped 4 spots.... wake up people

I have questioned Barry's ability to motivate and get his best from his wrestlers and was pounded on for doing so

I have said I hate this "March only matter" attitude knowing that top programs don't believe that. If March only matter why do we have yet another let down?

Bottom line, Barry has taken this team as far as he can take them, time for a new voice in the room and new mentality on the mat. I know some will support him to the grave but look at the facts, the last 20 years don't lie.

The best 4 year stretch of BD's career just so happen to be when DP was assistant

bigG · March 23, 2015, 08:54:30 AM

Considering MN finished 8th, I'd say the prediction of 7th would be waaay optimistic.

Seeds mean nothing. I do agree, though. Another disappointing season for MadBadgers.

jaguarwrestler · March 23, 2015, 08:57:54 AM

Quote from: bigG on March 23, 2015, 08:54:30 AM
Considering MN finished 8th, I'd say the prediction of 7th would be waaay optimistic.

Seeds mean nothing. I do agree, though. Another disappointing season for MadBadgers.

MN wrestled pathetic

their entire season was pathetic, they where ranked #1 and suppose to have all these strong seniors... best place by any of them was 4th

oh and every other team finished within 4 spots of prediction or they moved up the list to a much higher placement.

mkm13 · March 23, 2015, 08:58:06 AM

It is going to be hard for any coach to do better when you get absolutely nothing from the in state talent.

When the out of state talent had very good success this year, is it fair to blame everything on Barry for the lack of success from the in state wrestlers?

Bottom line, if it is Barry or someone else, we need more from the kids from Wisconsin. People have been vocal that we need to get all our in state kids. Well the last few years we have...and they have not given the team much at the big 10 level.

Ghetto · March 23, 2015, 09:05:33 AM

We have not gotten all the in state talent.

That said, if the talent in the state is not Big Ten caliber, then we shouldn't recruit them. It's that simple. Yes you need kids to come in and be more than you expect them to be, but if they aren't there then go find someone that is.

Arizona State just pulled 5 of the top 20 kids. Betting none of them are actually from Arizona. Tons of kids go out of state to wrestle. The St. Paris Graham pipeline seems to be working.

I heard announcers saying that Bo Jordan had planned on coming to WI until the coaching changes. In it's simplest form, it shows that kids will follow the coach.

Wisconsin Wrestling Fan · March 23, 2015, 09:12:56 AM

Even if Jordan and Taylor made it to the finals, based on the final team scores we probably would not have finished above 13th. And everyone would have met or exceeded their seed. Not sure how the 7th place prediction was determined. The limited amount of bonus points did hurt our team score.

nutters55 · March 23, 2015, 09:20:30 AM

What does it say about your program when kids end their commitment or interest in your program based on assistant coaches? It means Barry is either not very likable, or he takes no interest in the recruiting process and leaves it up to his assistant coaches. Either way it's not just recruiting and it's the production on the mat, and as fans we were teased with a 4th place finish a few years ago and now we have raised expectations and are continually told to be patient and to wait, the future is near! Well the future has been mediocre at best for the last decade.

jaguarwrestler · March 23, 2015, 09:21:32 AM

Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on March 23, 2015, 09:12:56 AM
Even if Jordan and Taylor made it to the finals, based on the final team scores we probably would not have finished above 13th. And everyone would have met or exceeded their seed. Not sure how the 7th place prediction was determined. The limited amount of bonus points did hurt our team score.

Not true, many 2nd place earn around 20 points so that would put us around 8th or 9th if that was added to our score

Wisconsin Wrestling Fan · March 23, 2015, 09:56:42 AM

2nd place earns 12 points; 7th Place earns 4 points. Add in 3 points for advancement (4 on the frontside minus 1 on the backside) is 19 points.

12th place Illinois had 51, Wisconsin had 32.5. Okay we would have been 12th with 51.5.

jaguarwrestler · March 23, 2015, 10:05:01 AM

Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on March 23, 2015, 09:56:42 AM
2nd place earns 12 points; 7th Place earns 4 points. Add in 3 points for advancement (4 on the frontside minus 1 on the backside) is 19 points.

12th place Illinois had 51, Wisconsin had 32.5. Okay we would have been 12th with 51.5.

133 and 165 scored 14 points

your using the bare minimum, generally top seeds score bonus points, the average 2nd scores about 19-20 points for a total of 38 or 24 above what they scored add that to the 32.5 gives us 56.5 that puts us in 10th, a few bonus points puts us in 8th or 9th... Schopp scored 18.5 points and lost first round.

but hey, defend the only team to drop more than 4 spots... 10 total spots... all you wish

DocWrestling · March 23, 2015, 10:22:10 AM

Personally I hate the philosophy also that the whole season is about March?

You learn to compete early and you cannot just mythically turn it on in March. And March success has not been there.

I do think you could also say this year that Iowa and Minnesota either overachieved at times or were beyond there peak with their NCAA's.

I just get frustrated when schools like Ohio St can pass us by and go right to national title! Or other schools like Edinboro, Lehigh, etc. In-state talent helps them.

If you are Barry Alvarez, you have two options. If you have in-state talent then you need a coach that can develop that. Not convinced that is Davis. If you do not have in-state talent you need a dynamic recruiter to bring young men to UW. That is not Davis.

I also think you need a great coach that knows how to balance the 9.9 scholarships to maintain depth and turnover.

Wisconsin Wrestling Fan · March 23, 2015, 10:28:28 AM

I am not defending anything, I am stating facts on how many more points we would have scored.

I understand your point. Beyond the scoring discussion, I am sure Ryan and Isaac wanted to do better, and we had a couple shots at All Americans at other spots. Cousins, Robertson, and McCall were close - the last match they lost was to an All American.

Here are a couple of my comments from what I saw and heard

- Seems like we got too conservative at some points - to win a title you have to be more aggressive.
- We need to work the angles better on offensive takedowns - straight on shots don't always work well at the NCAA's.
- Need to create better scoring opportunities on opponents shots - front headlock series perhaps.
- We need to get better on the bottom across the board. Easier said than done sometimes, but if we want to place high as a team, we need to be able to get out from the bottom quickly if we choose down or if we are taken down. Takedowns alone are probably are not going to win the match.

nutters55 · March 23, 2015, 11:23:28 AM

I think my issue at 133 and 165 is that they both lost to guys that they have beaten before. All the matches were close but our guys were not the ones prepared during the biggest match of the season and they lost. One could say their opponents got better or peaked at the right time, and UW wrestlers leveled off a week too early.

Wisconsin Wrestling Fan · March 23, 2015, 11:46:05 AM

I also would suggest we look to hit the weights hard in the offseason and get bigger and stronger.

Instead of weight cutting, let's do more weight lifting this offseason !!

Wisconsin Wrestling Fan · March 23, 2015, 11:59:55 AM

I will defend one thing.

#3 Seed Isaac Jordan having to wrestle and beat # 2 Seed Mike Moreno just to become an All-American was as tough a Round of 12 draw anyone could get. Moreno blew it in his 1st round match and had won 3 consecutive wrestleback wins by pin. Jordan was coming off a tough loss to Walsh - Moreno had the momentum. As we know, Jordan won an 8 minute 8-6 match by sudden victory. Probably as great a win as any in Jordan's collegiate career.

In the other bracket, # 4 Seed Nick Sulzer got a bye because Pierce Harger was hurt, and became an All-American.

1 hour later, Jordan had to wrestle Sulzer. Jordan probably did not have much gas in the tank at that point. Those are the breaks, but it probably had an effect.