Iowa @ Minnesota

Huckfinn · January 30, 2015, 11:11:26 PM

Hope the Superbowl is more fun than this.

I think Moore got a little lucky in opening bout, but he had the aggression to take advantage of situation.
I see Kinglsey is listed at both 157 and 165. He put up good fight until he flopped around like a Junior High wrestler.

Next the agonizing takedown of Logan Storley in OT. A very quick call, hard to accept that a roll-through like that is a TD in any meaningful sense, but maybe that is new rule.

From there, meet over.

ChargerDad · January 31, 2015, 06:03:33 AM

I was at Williams Arena watching that dual last night.. As you might expect, the Storley match generated some buzz, but as much as I hate it, it's the right call.. No reaction/continuation in OT.. Takedown awarded and opportunity for fall or near fall is allowed but any change in control ends the match with no reversal awarded

digimon · January 31, 2015, 01:16:55 PM

The Hawkeyes came to battle and handed the Gophers a dual meet loss. Some great matches, but Iowa controlled a number of the matches regarding pace, position, and tempo. Tough call on Storley in OT. How bout' those Dardanes twins. Ness is Ness even under the weather. Amazing! A thriller by Schiller to get that TD at the buzzer. I tip my hat to the Hawkeyes - that was a Big10 brawl and a well deserved team victory for Iowa.

imnofish · January 31, 2015, 06:49:59 PM

I was there last night; then I stayed up to watch the replay on television. Even the commentators mentioned how the ref was a bit quick on the trigger when awarding takedowns. I agree. He seemed like he started out kind of pumped up and full of adrenaline. Was this his first Big 10 rodeo? An even bigger factor was the continuing struggles of the Gophers, regarding takedown defense. They seem to be letting guys inside a lot more than last year. I noticed that most of them aren't putting any heavy hands on the opponent's head and shoulders like they were last year. I remember seeing a lot of ankle picks from them last year, too, but this year... not so much. I felt sorry for the freshman they inserted at 125. He just isn't ready, yet.

Huckfinn · January 31, 2015, 07:45:55 PM

Quote from: digimon on January 31, 2015, 01:16:55 PMNess is Ness even under the weather.

Perhaps you have some inside info, but my impression is that Ness was under a daydream. He pictured himself going out with a spectacular pin at home, and that was all he was wrestling for. Mike Kelly is a sound wrestler, Ness was lucky to salvage a win. I'm not being critical, really, the meet was decided. That's not how Ness will wrestle in the NCAAs.

You are right to point out that there were many competitive matches, it was an entertaining dual. I'm greedy, I also wanted to see a competition for the team win. Iowa took a hefty lead after 10 minutes.

Michael Kroells did a fine job at heavyweight, made that big lug earn his W.

Probably won't happen any decade soon, but I would love to see the heavyweight class split into 230 and 285. Not sure how that could get done. When you think about it, 197 is not a very large athlete. Maybe it was back in the 1950s, in era when football linemen weighed 220 pounds. People have gotten bigger over the past century, much bigger.

The smaller heavyweights really are different types of athletes than the big monsters. I would think Medberry, Kroells and Mike McMullan would be able to maximize their bodies and skills somewhere near 230.

Huckfinn · January 31, 2015, 07:54:51 PM

Quote from: imnofish on January 31, 2015, 06:49:59 PMEven the commentators mentioned how the ref was a bit quick on the trigger when awarding takedowns. I agree.

In theory, it shouldn't matter if it is OT. A TD is a TD is a TD. But the ref is going to be keyed-up to whistle any score, that might not get called a TD in regulation.
I have mixed feelings about the new "no reaction time" TD rule. When the call goes in favor of my wrestler, it's a brilliant idea. I suppose the good side is that it makes refereeing more consistent, it really is hard to judge control. And the other advantage is that it rewards aggression.

Quote from: imnofish on January 31, 2015, 06:49:59 PMI felt sorry for the freshman they inserted at 125. He just isn't ready, yet.

Ethan Lizak should get an extra hazardous duty stipend. Gilman is a monster physically. Most of the Iowa wrestlers look big. Burak at 197 looks like he spent the summer kicking sand in peoples' faces at the beach.

imnofish · January 31, 2015, 11:37:00 PM

Quote from: Huckfinn on January 31, 2015, 07:45:55 PM
Quote from: digimon on January 31, 2015, 01:16:55 PMNess is Ness even under the weather.

Perhaps you have some inside info, but my impression is that Ness was under a daydream. He pictured himself going out with a spectacular pin at home, and that was all he was wrestling for. Mike Kelly is a sound wrestler, Ness was lucky to salvage a win. I'm not being critical, really, the meet was decided. That's not how Ness will wrestle in the NCAAs.

You are right to point out that there were many competitive matches, it was an entertaining dual. I'm greedy, I also wanted to see a competition for the team win. Iowa took a hefty lead after 10 minutes.

Michael Kroells did a fine job at heavyweight, made that big lug earn his W.

Probably won't happen any decade soon, but I would love to see the heavyweight class split into 230 and 285. Not sure how that could get done. When you think about it, 197 is not a very large athlete. Maybe it was back in the 1950s, in era when football linemen weighed 220 pounds. People have gotten bigger over the past century, much bigger.

The smaller heavyweights really are different types of athletes than the big monsters. I would think Medberry, Kroells and Mike McMullan would be able to maximize their bodies and skills somewhere near 230.

I wrestled my last competitive match back in 1973 and the weight class was only 190 back then. 7 lbs. isn't much of an increase, but then, heavyweight was an unlimited class back then, so the top 2 weight classes have actually gotten close together.

digimon · February 01, 2015, 11:10:14 AM

Huckfinn - I heard from a pretty good source Ness was sick all week. Didn't really practice all week long. He didn't even warm-up and drill/wrestle like he always does the morning of the dual. His weight was down and it was a match time decision. He really wanted to wrestle for his home crowd on Senior Night is my guess. Mike Kelly is tough - I agree. Hopefully, Ness will reach his goal as an NCAA Champion in March. Twice the bridesmaid. Never a dull match with Dylan Ness on the mat.

Huckfinn · February 01, 2015, 01:02:56 PM

Quote from: imnofish on January 31, 2015, 11:37:00 PMI wrestled my last competitive match back in 1973 and the weight class was only 190 back then. 7 lbs. isn't much of an increase, but then, heavyweight was an unlimited class back then, so the top 2 weight classes have actually gotten close together.

Good points, especially on fact that unlimited was eliminated, that helps. Still, it's obvious that there remain two very different types of heavyweight. Guys like Marsden at OK State and Telford at Iowa are able to dominate from top position against lighter, more compact opponents. Ross Larson at Oklahoma is a great wrestler, should be competitive for a championship, but he is about 225. A light heavy weight division, where the big guys get in great shape, would be exciting.

285 is much bigger than the many wrestlers clustered around 220-245. It's unsporting, silly. Proportionally, it's like a 125 pounder wrestling guys in 145 to 161 range.

30 years ago, you had a lot of fat guys in college heavyweight. Now they are better conditioned, and the weight differences are more significant, like in lighter weight classes.

OK, here's a war story for ya: I wrestled heavyweight back in late 70s at about 230 pounds. I had to wrestle this guy from M.I.T. who (at time) weighed 420, 6' 6". It was terrifying, he pinned me easily and gently. He was a Dutch guy, a genius IQ, world class opera singer. He lost some weight and became an alternate wrestler on Olympic team. And then he became an actor, playing Grossberger in "Stir Crazy". Erland van Lidth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erland_Van_Lidth_De_Jeude

Spartan · February 01, 2015, 02:00:47 PM

Chargerdad the call against Storley was not correct. Your interpretation of no reaction time is also not correct. The only time there is no reaction time on a takedown is when the offensive wrestler from the rear standing position forces the defensive wrestlers hand to contact the mat. Other than that reaction time still exists. As we watched the video with the NCAA rules editor he stated that that was not a takedown, and the head official in the NCAA agreed, that control was not maintained beyond reaction time. Now had the official changed the call on the review, Storley would not have been awarded the takedown, the match would have started again with the wrestlers in the neutral position.

For those of you who have never reffed a big ten match, even with the crowds wisconsin and northwestern pull in, it is an exhilarating experience. The official in that match is an excellent official and no that was not his first rodeo.

Huckfinn · February 01, 2015, 05:23:11 PM

Quote from: Spartan on February 01, 2015, 02:00:47 PM
Chargerdad the call against Storley was not correct. Your interpretation of no reaction time is also not correct. The only time there is no reaction time on a takedown is when the offensive wrestler from the rear standing position forces the defensive wrestlers hand to contact the mat. Other than that reaction time still exists. As we watched the video with the NCAA rules editor he stated that that was not a takedown, and the head official in the NCAA agreed, that control was not maintained beyond reaction time. Now had the official changed the call on the review, Storley would not have been awarded the takedown, the match would have started again with the wrestlers in the neutral position.

Thanks for that excellent explanation! Assuming your information is correct, I bet only 1 in 5 wrestling fans understand the new rule. And the experts who announce matches don't understand the rule. Definitely a misinformation problem for sport.

Spartan · February 01, 2015, 07:37:49 PM

Huckfinn my information is correct I am an NCAA official and I was in the meeting when we showed the video to the rules editor and one of my fellow officials forwarded it to pat mc cormick who is the head of officials for the ncaa.

Huckfinn · February 01, 2015, 08:54:34 PM

Quote from: Spartan on February 01, 2015, 07:37:49 PM
Huckfinn my information is correct I am an NCAA official and I was in the meeting when we showed the video to the rules editor and one of my fellow officials forwarded it to pat mc cormick who is the head of officials for the ncaa.

OK, thanks for setting record straight. I like the way the new rule is supposed to be called, makes sense.

They interviewed Mike Evans after the call, and he repeated the "zero reaction time" mantra. So obviously the wrestlers themselves are confused. When the wrestlers, announcers and fans don't understand rule, we need some education.

Logan Storley got jobbed, but you had two excellent wrestlers making big time moves. It was a close call.

imnofish · February 01, 2015, 09:19:31 PM

Quote from: Huckfinn on February 01, 2015, 01:02:56 PM
Quote from: imnofish on January 31, 2015, 11:37:00 PMI wrestled my last competitive match back in 1973 and the weight class was only 190 back then. 7 lbs. isn't much of an increase, but then, heavyweight was an unlimited class back then, so the top 2 weight classes have actually gotten close together.

Good points, especially on fact that unlimited was eliminated, that helps. Still, it's obvious that there remain two very different types of heavyweight. Guys like Marsden at OK State and Telford at Iowa are able to dominate from top position against lighter, more compact opponents. Ross Larson at Oklahoma is a great wrestler, should be competitive for a championship, but he is about 225. A light heavy weight division, where the big guys get in great shape, would be exciting.

285 is much bigger than the many wrestlers clustered around 220-245. It's unsporting, silly. Proportionally, it's like a 125 pounder wrestling guys in 145 to 161 range.

30 years ago, you had a lot of fat guys in college heavyweight. Now they are better conditioned, and the weight differences are more significant, like in lighter weight classes.

OK, here's a war story for ya: I wrestled heavyweight back in late 70s at about 230 pounds. I had to wrestle this guy from M.I.T. who (at time) weighed 420, 6' 6". It was terrifying, he pinned me easily and gently. He was a Dutch guy, a genius IQ, world class opera singer. He lost some weight and became an alternate wrestler on Olympic team. And then he became an actor, playing Grossberger in "Stir Crazy". Erland van Lidth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erland_Van_Lidth_De_Jeude

Yes, there is still a huge gap between the top 2 weight classes. I like the 220 class in high school. Wouldn't hurt my feelings to see it added in college, but I will be shocked if that ever happens. Cool story! I remember the guy you wrestled, from his acting days. One of my high school teammates, Jim Witzleb, wrestled Heavyweight for Iowa, back in the early 70s. His freshman year, he was third in Midlands... cruising along great, until he met Olympian Chris Taylor in the semis. It didn't last long. Jim was a big guy, but Taylor was a mountain (also about 420, I think).

Huckfinn · February 01, 2015, 10:19:46 PM

Quote from: imnofish on February 01, 2015, 09:19:31 PMOne of my high school teammates, Jim Witzleb, wrestled Heavyweight for Iowa, back in the early 70s. His freshman year, he was third in Midlands... cruising along great, until he met Olympian Chris Taylor in the semis. It didn't last long. Jim was a big guy, but Taylor was a mountain (also about 420, I think).

Uhh, it is no fun wrestling a guy who is 6'6" 400+. It was like wrestling a tall tree stump. I would not have done it, except as an 18 year old I lacked the courage to refuse.

Erland van Lidth was about Chris Taylor's size in college, he shrunk to puny 340 for Olympics.

It is certainly appropriate that NCAA capped weight at 285. Among other reasons, Chris Taylor died at age 29, Erland van Lidth at 34, both of heart failure. You have to admire a 400+ pounder attempting to play sports, but morbid obesity is nothing to celebrate. I distinctly remember how the announcers for the Olympics kept saying Chris Taylor, "moved well for a big man." I didn't see it, they should have focused on helping him survive.