Very even handed article on Whitnall/Greendale co-op

[MNbadger]

"Coaching is not just showing up for the first day of practice....yet I know some that think it is."
Trust me Padre, this was never me. 


I'd love to know the reason I was unable to get kids out the last 5 or 6 years as head coach.  Wrestling was never part-time for me, it was my passion.
We have restarted our MS program and I have 14-16 kids out in my building.  None of them have any wrestling experience.  I think they will all stay out the whole season (I have had some quit and some were removed by me).  Whether they will ever be competitive in our league is up in the air.  It is tough to keep interest as they only meet kids with much youth experience. 
Again, you can't build a competitive varsity program around here without a large, strong youth program.  Again, it isn't for lack of trying. 

[Jeff Farrell]

Amen Padre.....I don't know Kurth from a hole in the wall, but I would bet every dime I have, that if you put him in Greendale or any school of your choosing that is struggling in the sport of wrestling, he'd have a full team and a very successful team and he'd do it the 1st season he was there.  I've seen this phrase on the back of tshirts of a pretty prominent team "THERE IS NO EASY WAY".  That statement goes for the wrestlers and the coaches.  Unfortunately we have some individuals that are still looking for the easy way, the band aid.....and a CO-OP is not the answer, especially in a Division 1 school.  

Let me ask you this Greendale.....why not just pull back for 1 or 2 years, only enter JV meets or non dual formats for a couple years with your small varsity squad while you implement your "rebuilding" tactics?  Wouldn't that have been a much better life lesson for your athlete's?

Just remember this:  No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

[Ghetto]

The truth is that anywhere the Greendale kids would have gone would have created an excellent team. Nowhere would have been ok for anyone outside of the two programs.

So far, I'd say they've done it right.

They had a dual at Greendale, which was well attended. At that dual they introduced the kids club kids and the middle school kids.

They've changed the kids club at Greendale from one that was ultra competitive a few years ago, which created studs like Hensley, Welch, etc. but may not have created the numbers they need to generate their own feeder. They have Gregg Lewis running their kids club, and he's an awesome guy, who the kids like very much. And not too many programs have a college coach at their kids club.

Kerry Johnson is the middle school coach, and he's a great guy as well. Was a HS head coach, so he has the background to make successful middle schoolers who can proceed to the high school level.

The head coach isn't in the building. That's tough. I don't know what the administrations views are on coaches in the district teaching. I know at Bay, I was told to NOT put coaching down on the resume, because they don't want their teachers coaching at all.

They also have a varsity reserve roster, so that the kids who may have been bumped out still get to wrestle varsity tournaments.

Hard to argue that they aren't doing what they said they were, which is building a program for Greendale. I hope that after two years they are back on their own.

[Ghetto]

Let me ask you this Greendale.....why not just pull back for 1 or 2 years, only enter JV meets or non dual formats for a couple years with your small varsity squad while you implement your "rebuilding" tactics?  Wouldn't that have been a much better life lesson for your athlete's?

To put ranked kids in JV tournaments would be an injustice to those kids. It makes no sense. It's not that they didn't have talent, its that they didn't have numbers.

If they would have JV quality kids, no one would be complaining. It is a unique situation where they have top level talent but small numbers.

[padre]

"Coaching is not just showing up for the first day of practice....yet I know some that think it is."
Trust me Padre, this was never me.  


I'd love to know the reason I was unable to get kids out the last 5 or 6 years as head coach.  Wrestling was never part-time for me, it was my passion.
We have restarted our MS program and I have 14-16 kids out in my building.  None of them have any wrestling experience.  I think they will all stay out the whole season (I have had some quit and some were removed by me).  Whether they will ever be competitive in our league is up in the air.  It is tough to keep interest as they only meet kids with much youth experience.  
Again, you can't build a competitive varsity program around here without a large, strong youth program.  Again, it isn't for lack of trying.  

Totally correct....I would have almost no wrestlers if it weren't for the youth program that I run.

We have 15-17 kids in our middle school(6th-8th)...not big numbers by any means.  Have never had more than that yet we were one of the few teams to register full weight classes the last 5 years....and we will again the next 5....we have our head coach in the school(and he promotes hard) also....it is a full time job(regardless of the season) all year long.  Maybe get a job coaching another sport as myself and the Head Assistant do and we promote it all summer and fall...it's the only way we see it is possible....but to have 1200 kids I think we'd have 50 out....sorry.  To add to the fact that we have a wrestling room that fits 12 kids wrestling live just sustains my point that one can get 30 kids out for the sport.

Learned a lot from many others on the way....never leave a man left behind....don't know what they will end up being. I myself never wrestled before high school(basketball player) but was lured by getting a letter and we have made it a bit easier to get a letter for our JV....something to think about.(:

We are not world-beaters but we fill line-ups.

[Jeff Farrell]

Clarification:  what I meant was only attend jv meets with the kids that need that, or individual (non dual format) with your varsity caliber kids.  Do they really need the extra 6 or 7 matches from the conference duals to continue there individual progress?  Wouldn't the 25+ matches that they would get at their 7 multi team event be enough, while they are rebuilding?

[Jeff Farrell]

Would West Allis not allowed Greendale into their tournament this past weekend, if they only brought 6?

[Ghetto]

Would West Allis not allowed Greendale into their tournament this past weekend, if they only brought 6?

The Stech historically has been tough to get into. Now, I don't know. We only had 8, though 2 were sick.

[padre]

"Coaching is not just showing up for the first day of practice....yet I know some that think it is."
Trust me Padre, this was never me.  


I'd love to know the reason I was unable to get kids out the last 5 or 6 years as head coach.  Wrestling was never part-time for me, it was my passion.
We have restarted our MS program and I have 14-16 kids out in my building.  None of them have any wrestling experience.  I think they will all stay out the whole season (I have had some quit and some were removed by me).  Whether they will ever be competitive in our league is up in the air.  It is tough to keep interest as they only meet kids with much youth experience.  
Again, you can't build a competitive varsity program around here without a large, strong youth program.  Again, it isn't for lack of trying.  

We started like this...I believe there were 3 kids in the junior high program before I started...but I started coaching junior high when my youth was established(and when son was entering 6th grade) and there was a light at the end of the tunnel.  Unfortunately it doesn't start in the JH program as those kids have very little chance for success even at the high school level(although some will still do OK).

Like I've said before it takes a decade but most just don't have that time.

[Jeff Farrell]

From reading past forums (and watching some of your studs this weekend) it looks like you are doing a good job rebuilding your program.  Why didn't you just Co-op, Ghetto?

[1Iota]

Amen Padre.....I don't know Kurth from a hole in the wall, but I would bet every dime I have, that if you put him in Greendale or any school of your choosing that is struggling in the sport of wrestling, he'd have a full team and a very successful team and he'd do it the 1st season he was there.  I've seen this phrase on the back of tshirts of a pretty prominent team "THERE IS NO EASY WAY".  That statement goes for the wrestlers and the coaches.  Unfortunately we have some individuals that are still looking for the easy way, the band aid.....and a CO-OP is not the answer, especially in a Division 1 school.  

Let me ask you this Greendale.....why not just pull back for 1 or 2 years, only enter JV meets or non dual formats for a couple years with your small varsity squad while you implement your "rebuilding" tactics?  Wouldn't that have been a much better life lesson for your athlete's?

Just remember this:  No Good Deed Goes Unpunished

I agree with you about Kurth & I would bet this is why he is so upset about this maneuver.  He built his program & he knows he could do it again, yet another team takes a short cut to success.  I also will never agree with those that offer the opinion that no matter what they do they can't build numbers at schools the size of Greendale.  I heard this for way too many years until a truly committed staff came in & built a program. 

[aarons23]

I don't think its always about uncommitted coaches.   I think many times they are trying their best....but just doesn't connect with the wrestlers or parents.   Some guys just has that way about them that kids want to be a round and would run through walls for. You must find that guy...if your trying your hardest and no success....maybe look in the mirror and realize you need to find that guy.  You need a strong group of parents that back the program from youth through high school....not just where there kids are. 

We have schools with less than 300 making it work....certainly D1 schools should be able to. I believe Greendale was in a better situation than Whitefish Bay was when Ghetto took over and he certainly has made huge strides.

[Speakthetruth]

One fact that gets overlooked is greenfield was down and out 3 years ago after coach morin retired. Greenfield was down to 8 wrestlers. Wrestling fell on some pretty hard times. Look at it now, 40 kids are wrestling and many are picked out of the hallway. Just knowing coach otto, granted he is in the building, he still gets kids out and being a parent of a greenfield wrestler, they love being on the team. Being in the building is not the cure all to team with low numbers.

[neutral]

I believe there are two prime points in time that kids can be recruited into wrestling ...
... when they enter middle school ... and non-basketball athletes are looking for something to do and are more likely to respond to positive encouragement & the ego-enhancement of being "recruited" (if done in a way that makes them feel like a recuit ... not a participant)
... freshman year ... when athletes realize that football & basketball bench-warming isn't going to satisfy their competitive desires

This is not to say wrestling can't get it's share of the better athletes - just that the athletes it gets will likely be the ones whose skill sets are not optized in (primarily) basketball.

[Ghetto]

From reading past forums (and watching some of your studs this weekend) it looks like you are doing a good job rebuilding your program.  Why didn't you just Co-op, Ghetto?

We were already in a co-op when I took the job, and I didn't want it. I didn't know what it would do to chemistry in the room. But I am that stubborn to a ridiculous fault guy too. I can't stand being told I can't do something. (Might be short guy syndrome  )

I hope that it works at Greendale, because my son will be directly effected. That's my greatest concern in the whole thing.

Thank you for the kind words. This is a special group of wrestlers. That said, we have 21 kids, and its a grind to get kids out. We have one kid per weight, and when someone goes down..

Merry Christmas everyone.