Rethinking things

[ramjet]

Yep, too many parents try to engineer their kids into being national champs, instead of supporting them in learning good skills and having an age-appropriate experience.  Same thing is happening in other sports.  As a nation, we are doing this to our kids academically, too.  Driving your kids to perform adult-level skills, even if they aren't developmentally ready, is the best way to discourage them.  However, you do get to brag about how good your kid is and take a lot of the credit for his/her accomplishments, so that's cool.  Apparently, it's the American way! 

Yup Fish you are correct we should just not put any goals out there for them let them just do what they want and not give any expectations....because kids will meet expectations-high-low or in between. 

Individual Parents will make those decision not have some body like you making it for them.

Now take your Politics over to the political side of the forum. This is wrestling.

[Big House]

Individual Parents will make those decision not have some body like you making it for them.

An intelligent parent might be able to listen to both sides of an argument, research the best options, and make the best decision for their child.  The sad idiot parent who never felt successful is just gonna tell his kids what to do cuz he's the parent! 

I tell you what buddy ... enjoy being alone when you're old ...

[littleguy301]

You can not compare AD, JT and Jake to 99% of the wrestlers out there.  That is one of the problems....to many parents are trying to replicate those three.

Plus 1 million!

[Pheasant 1984]

I disagree with the original post! My son lost every match he wrestled his first 2 years. I never pushed him to keep wrestling. As a Junior he is a very talented wrestler. Last month I asked him why he stayed with the sport? His answer surprised me! Because of the fun games we played after practice dad! What an answer huh! Youth wrestling programs mold our kids into what they are today! I believe a lot of how they turn out is how the parents handle it too!

[1Iota]

You can not compare AD, JT and Jake to 99% of the wrestlers out there.  That is one of the problems....to many parents are trying to replicate those three.

Ding! Ding! Ding!  We have a winner.  These 3 are not the 1%, they are the .0001%.  Trying to replicate their success will prove to be impossible for most.

Wrestling matches are extremly personal & the defeat is much different than losing as the member of a team.  My Sons could lose a baseball game & still focus on what they did well & never took the losses personally.  You can't do that in wrestling.  You're the winner or the loser & they know that.  No young children like to lose & while statements such as "they need to learn to lose" make good rhetoric, that won't happen until the brain matures.  Watch any young child play a video game; what happens when they get behind?  Restart baby!  We are putting the majority of these kids in a high pressure situation long before they are mentally ready to handle it, & why? Because they won't be the next Jessie if we don't. 

[ramjet]

Individual Parents will make those decision not have some body like you making it for them.

An intelligent parent might be able to listen to both sides of an argument, research the best options, and make the best decision for their child.  The sad idiot parent who never felt successful is just gonna tell his kids what to do cuz he's the parent! 

I tell you what buddy ... enjoy being alone when you're old ...

First off I am not your buddy, second off you have no idea what you are talking about, go back to your sarcastic posts they make far more sense to you than anyone else and judging from the number you post I would say you are the lonely one ........................ dude.

[npope]

The essence of the debate is where the value/emphasis should (does) lie with respect to the process or the outcome. A complete emphasis on the process would suggest that the value for the kids comes from positive participation in learning to wrestle, being part of a team, etc. In that context, winning is irrelevant - a kid could experience all of the great benefits that wrestling has to offer through his/her participation. At the extreme, the alternative outcome-based focus suggests that the value is derived from winning; the process is irrelevant with respect to rewarding the kid for his/her participation. But those perspectives are the extremes and most parents likely hold a perspective somewhere in between.

The issue being discussed might really be one of the "proper" parental attitude and the goals the parent ultimately wants for his/her child. By the nature of our culture and values, we tend to place a great deal of emphasis on winning, e.g. "We're number 1!" Believe it or not, many other cultures aren't driven by this need to be recognized as being king of the hill - it is not universally human nature to have this deep need to win - it is our culture. Young kids are immersed in this cultural bias and it becomes ingrained in them; if they don't win they feel as though they have failed - nothing else mattered except the outcome. While kids have a difficult time placing the youthful athletic experience into a proper perspective, parents have no such excuse. Parents should have a broader understanding as to what is going on and the tremendous value mere participation might have for the kid.

What happens with parents who some of us think have their priorities mixed up is that they will openly acknowledge that they too understand the value of mere participation; that winning isn't everything; that they "get it." But then they turn around and heap tremendous praise and glory on the kids that win and allow "mere" participants to stand quietly, unacknowledged, in the shadows - because they didn't win. And that is where they have their disconnect in their head. They don't see that getting all excited about a kid winning sends the wrong signal to the kid. The kid cues off that behavior and similarly begins to think that winning is the only measure of success and value; that earnest participation has no value - only winning counts. Those parents of whom I speak will argue that they do in fact understand the value of participation, but the problem is that they don't practice what they preach; they get over-hyped with respect to the outcomes, e.g. the end of the season tournament series.

They would be sending a better message to their kids if they dampened their excitement when their kids win and offer more praise for consistent and earnest participation; praise for hard work and helping other teammates; sacrificing for the team, etc. And those parents will say they do...but they will also be the same ones jumping around in the stands practically peeing in their pants if their kid wins state. The kid would be well served if the parent's praise were more evenly distributed across the spectrum of opportunities to offer praise.

[ramjet]

Wrestling is sport nothing more nothing less a high school sport.......................................end of story. Small portion of anyones life.................very small.

[npope]

Wrestling is sport nothing more nothing less a high school sport.......................................end of story. Small portion of anyones life.................very small.

And yet, here we old farts sit, carrying on various discussions, debates, friendships, and cat fights that wouldn't otherwise have happened if we hadn't participated (most of us) in that "insignificant" endeavor oh so many years ago. Maybe the insignificant thing was how well we did on the mats at the time.

[imnofish]

Yep, too many parents try to engineer their kids into being national champs, instead of supporting them in learning good skills and having an age-appropriate experience.  Same thing is happening in other sports.  As a nation, we are doing this to our kids academically, too.  Driving your kids to perform adult-level skills, even if they aren't developmentally ready, is the best way to discourage them.  However, you do get to brag about how good your kid is and take a lot of the credit for his/her accomplishments, so that's cool.  Apparently, it's the American way! 

Yup Fish you are correct we should just not put any goals out there for them let them just do what they want and not give any expectations....because kids will meet expectations-high-low or in between. 

Individual Parents will make those decision not have some body like you making it for them.

Now take your Politics over to the political side of the forum. This is wrestling.

Wow!  Nice tone.  So impressed to know that I am not welcome to discuss wrestling on a wrestling forum.  FYI, no politics were mentioned or intended.  Just pointing out that our society has become so focused on high goals that we are getting the cart before the horse and pushing kids into many situations before they are developmentally ready.  Of course kids need to learn how to set and work toward goals, but those goals and their pursuit need to be age-appropriate, if kids are to get the maximum benefit from them.  As mentioned by others on here, adults often fall into the trap of setting goals that are more consistent with adult readiness than with child developmental stages.  Stating that truth is not the same as taking the choice away from parents.  To the contrary, as a parent, I was open to any information/perspectives that I might consider for the benefit of my children.  They don't come with instruction manuals, remember?

[DocWrestling]

Goals are great but they need to be realistic.

Too many parents have a goal of a college scholarship which is unrealistic for 99%.  In other sports the dream is to make the pros.

I got in trouble with a few parents at our end of the year 8U baseball team banquet and basically siad we had fun and we will continue to focus on that and skill development because "nobody is going to make the pros here".  Parents stated I crushed their dreams.

People need to be honest with their kids and honest with themselves.  I coach numerous sports and I still get the question, "what does my son have to do to get a scholarship" when they are asking about camps and such.  I simply tell them then they should focus more on academics and go to an academic camp.

Too many parents share more passion and time on a child's sports rather than their academics and that is sad.

[ramjet]

Yep, too many parents try to engineer their kids into being national champs, instead of supporting them in learning good skills and having an age-appropriate experience.  Same thing is happening in other sports.  As a nation, we are doing this to our kids academically, too.  Driving your kids to perform adult-level skills, even if they aren't developmentally ready, is the best way to discourage them.  However, you do get to brag about how good your kid is and take a lot of the credit for his/her accomplishments, so that's cool.  Apparently, it's the American way! 

Yup Fish you are correct we should just not put any goals out there for them let them just do what they want and not give any expectations....because kids will meet expectations-high-low or in between. 

Individual Parents will make those decision not have some body like you making it for them.

Now take your Politics over to the political side of the forum. This is wrestling.

Wow!  Nice tone.  So impressed to know that I am not welcome to discuss wrestling on a wrestling forum.  FYI, no politics were mentioned or intended.  Just pointing out that our society has become so focused on high goals that we are getting the cart before the horse and pushing kids into many situations before they are developmentally ready.  Of course kids need to learn how to set and work toward goals, but those goals and their pursuit need to be age-appropriate, if kids are to get the maximum benefit from them.  As mentioned by others on here, adults often fall into the trap of setting goals that are more consistent with adult readiness than with child developmental stages.  Stating that truth is not the same as taking the choice away from parents.  To the contrary, as a parent, I was open to any information/perspectives that I might consider for the benefit of my children.  They don't come with instruction manuals, remember?

Oh you can determine tome from a post? Wow interesting to say the least.

[MNbadger]

"Yup Fish you are correct we should just not put any goals out there for them let them just do what they want and not give any expectations....because kids will meet expectations-high-low or in between.  Roll Eyes

Individual Parents will make those decision not have some body like you making it for them.

Now take your Politics over to the political side of the forum. This is wrestling."

Your tone is easily read from this post.

[ramjet]

Wrestling is sport nothing more nothing less a high school sport.......................................end of story. Small portion of anyones life.................very small.

And yet, here we old farts sit, carrying on various discussions, debates, friendships, and cat fights that wouldn't otherwise have happened if we hadn't participated (most of us) in that "insignificant" endeavor oh so many years ago. Maybe the insignificant thing was how well we did on the mats at the time.

I am just saying some of you wan this to be the be all of parenting and it is only part of it.

Heck unless I completely mis-inteperated your post you are saying parents get too excited with kids success?

I say whats wrong with that if your child has success you should be excited especially if they worked their tail off to accomplish a goal.

I would never tell another parent how to deal with their children because the relationship may be such that I do not know how they relate to each other or their family dynamic. As long as I do not see physical or mental abuse its not my place. Physical or mental abuse that is different set of rules altogether. But heck what does make the sport at any level interesting?  How each individual reacts and acts under similar circumstances.  

What makes life so interesting is the differences in people.

I know a father/coach that people would just get so mad at because he was demanding and yelled mat side. Heck I was even lulled into thinking he was a mean SOB then one day I struck a conversation with him and his kids and got to know them. Nothing abusive or even mean about the guy it was the family dynamic in fact the kids gave it back to dad just as much as he gave it ti them and they did with smile and they respected him for the motivation and help he provided. In fact the guy would give any kid the shirt off his back on -20 degree day. On the outside without knowing the details it was interesting now I see them I just chuckle because I know the more about them and dynamic of their family.

So when i say its just wrestling I mean it is not the place where you learn to raise your kids that is done every night around the table at dinner or before or after church sure its catalyst and provides some common ground but there is so much more.

I laugh not many people ask the kids what they think? After all if its about them why not ask them they are brutally honest and will tell you if you ask the right question.

[imnofish]

Goals are great but they need to be realistic.

Too many parents have a goal of a college scholarship which is unrealistic for 99%.  In other sports the dream is to make the pros.

I got in trouble with a few parents at our end of the year 8U baseball team banquet and basically siad we had fun and we will continue to focus on that and skill development because "nobody is going to make the pros here".  Parents stated I crushed their dreams.

People need to be honest with their kids and honest with themselves.  I coach numerous sports and I still get the question, "what does my son have to do to get a scholarship" when they are asking about camps and such.  I simply tell them then they should focus more on academics and go to an academic camp.

Too many parents share more passion and time on a child's sports rather than their academics and that is sad.

Great post!  Personally, I think the most appropriate goals for all wrestlers must include continual skills improvement, having fun, being a good team member, being a good sport, learning how to lead, and (eventually) learning how to set and pursue their own goals.  Notice how the goal setting is suggested as the wrestler's responsibility, rather than that of the parent.