Rethinking things

padre · February 19, 2014, 08:44:01 AM

Quote from: Buzz1979 on February 19, 2014, 08:36:20 AM
Actually that couldn't be farther from the truth tews. I only let my son wrestle 1 tournament this year and it's his first one that he ever wrestled. And it was a no compete...So If I was just focusing on wins/losses don't you think I'd be the dad that's dragging him all over every weekend to get him some "mat time?" Obviously I was mistaken about technique "never" working at a very young age but it is definately the exception not the rule.

That's OK to lose. If you have decent technique you will get your share of victories. In this sport you need to learn how to lose...it makes kids work a bit harder and pays off in the end. If a club creates an atmosphere that a loss on a Sunday is OK and part of each kid's personal growth and parents are on board with it things do get better.

Buzz1979 · February 19, 2014, 08:57:10 AM

Quote from: padre on February 19, 2014, 08:44:01 AM
Quote from: Buzz1979 on February 19, 2014, 08:36:20 AM
Actually that couldn't be farther from the truth tews. I only let my son wrestle 1 tournament this year and it's his first one that he ever wrestled. And it was a no compete...So If I was just focusing on wins/losses don't you think I'd be the dad that's dragging him all over every weekend to get him some "mat time?" Obviously I was mistaken about technique "never" working at a very young age but it is definately the exception not the rule.

That's OK to lose. If you have decent technique you will get your share of victories. In this sport you need to learn how to lose...it makes kids work a bit harder and pays off in the end. If a club creates an atmosphere that a loss on a Sunday is OK and part of each kid's personal growth and parents are on board with it things do get better.

I understand and agree that losing is as big of if not bigger part of wrestling than winning. I think that you learn from losing probably more than winning. That's where I'm torn on this issue a little bit because I believe kids DO need to learn how to lose but what does a kid get out of a quick pin (on either side of it?) In the no compete (for little guys) the match is stopped and they still get there mat time after the quick pin. It's a win/win for both guys.

aarons23 · February 19, 2014, 09:11:29 AM

I haven't been to a no tears in years....but several years ago I took my oldest and would never do it again. I saw more kids crying from getting pinned ten times in one match. Not sure that's any better.

Buzz1979 · February 19, 2014, 09:35:36 AM

My response was " I just like to see you guys wrestle"

Enjoy the sport for the good and bad.
[/quote]

No worries Tews. That is exactly how I wish everyone looked at it. I just want these kids to get everything that I got out of this great sport and I hate seeing these schools struggle to get a team and every year more and more coops and lots of them still can't field a full team. There are definately some things that could be changed for the better of our sport and honest conversations like this are a start.

ramjet · February 19, 2014, 09:45:53 AM

QuoteThat being said our high school team has 11 starters that started by the 1st grade and some upper weights that came in later. We have had success and I know you can't be a top team with kids that start their frosh year as starters....maybe good for numbers but many times they are not able to learn what they need to until at least their junior year....so its a catch 22.

Outstanding youth program is key to successful High School Program. It would be nice to wrestle only Jr Varsity and I wonder if programs with on JV wrestlers should indeed keep them out of varsity and put them on the mat in Jr Varsity matches. For example program A 10 kids 7 of them are Freshman and Sophmores do you hold them out of Varsity and only wrestle them in Jr Varsity tournaments and then you go forward to Varsity matches wit the 4 wrestlers left over?

But we are talking about individuals and nobody is more an expert about their child than their parents. They may also be the ones putting the pressure on them as well. Do not be afraid to keep your kids out if they cannot handle it emotionally then interest them later when they can handle the pressure of wrestling.

padre · February 19, 2014, 10:35:29 AM

I have seen many more tears in No-Tears tournaments than a regular tournament. Imagine getting pinned over and over isn't good for anyone.

briggs · February 19, 2014, 11:55:40 AM

So your kid gets pinned over and over at a "no tears" tournament and your blaming the tourney? Maybe they are not ready to wrestle. Doesnt sound like much fun to me.

Big House · February 19, 2014, 12:14:06 PM

Little kids crying makes me laugh ... I love to go to the "All Tears" Tournaments

If your kid starts to cry, the parents have to call them a baby and threaten to not love them. After all, kids were invented to make you look better ... not worse!

Buzz1979 · February 19, 2014, 12:24:31 PM

Quote from: Big House on February 19, 2014, 12:14:06 PM
Little kids crying makes me laugh ... I love to go to the "All Tears" Tournaments

If your kid starts to cry, the parents have to call them a baby and threaten to not love them. After all, kids were invented to make you look better ... not worse!

LOL The thing that makes this funny is the number of dad's/coach's that actually do that. I heard a dad call his pre-kindergartener a wimp and just walk away from him disgusted when the kid was scared to go out on the mat for his first match at a tournament. The dad was a state champ and I guess that he expected the same amount of success out of his 4 year old all-star. I couldn't imagine being a non-wrestling parent and walking into a youth tournament with my kid and wanting to subject him to that kind of chaos!

imnofish · February 19, 2014, 12:56:22 PM

The idea of kids getting pinned again and again is definitely a reality that needs to faced, when it comes to "no tears" formats. That's why I prefer the takedown tournament option. Even if you make a certain number of takedowns a "tech-fall," kids will still get more wrestling time and it is less emotionally stressful. Even high school kids can enjoy the opportunity to focus on technique and try new things, without the risk of a sudden loss due to being pinned. I've run one of these for middle school kids before, when we had a lot of inexperienced wrestlers. I was amazed at how much they learned and how relaxed all of the participants were. I've also seen high school kids involved in these, off-season, with similar results. Obviously, it's not meant to replace all conventional tournaments, but it does offer a nice change of pace for top kids and a way for inexperienced kids to learn and have fun.

handsandtoes · February 19, 2014, 03:31:06 PM

I don't think anyone can not see wrestling numbers going down at a rate that is concerning. Padre is right, put a kid out on the mat as a freshman for the first time, pretty tough to get any high level success out of him. So maybe this post should be asking the "successful wrestlers parents" what they did right. How about Alex Derringer, Jake Suflon, or Jessie Theilke. Ask them how they did it. I bet they weren't the screaming parent at the side of the mat.

ramjet · February 19, 2014, 03:48:37 PM

Quote from: Big House on February 19, 2014, 12:14:06 PM
Little kids crying makes me laugh ... I love to go to the "All Tears" Tournaments

If your kid starts to cry, the parents have to call them a baby and threaten to not love them. After all, kids were invented to make you look better ... not worse!

Lol see I am starting to get it House thats is hilarious...............

You forgot they need to look at them and say; "You make me sick your not even trying out there!"

DocWrestling · February 19, 2014, 05:06:26 PM

Quote from: handsandtoes on February 19, 2014, 03:31:06 PM
I don't think anyone can not see wrestling numbers going down at a rate that is concerning. Padre is right, put a kid out on the mat as a freshman for the first time, pretty tough to get any high level success out of him. So maybe this post should be asking the "successful wrestlers parents" what they did right. How about Alex Derringer, Jake Suflon, or Jessie Theilke. Ask them how they did it. I bet they weren't the screaming parent at the side of the mat.

Some kids just have "it" and love the sport from the start and nothing should be held against them but that is probably 10% of wrestlers. Our system seems to cater to those wrestlers rather than the other 90%. Theose 10% want to wrestle every weekend, the other 90% in high school would probably like a few more weekends off.

Those 10% are not the problem. The problem is the parents of lets say another 50% of the kids that want their kids to be in that 10% but they do not have the talent nor the drive and they push and yell and suck the fun out if t for the athlete. And with those made up percentages you have another 40% that are doing thinngs the right way

aarons23 · February 19, 2014, 05:13:25 PM

You can not compare AD, JT and Jake to 99% of the wrestlers out there. That is one of the problems....to many parents are trying to replicate those three.

imnofish · February 19, 2014, 11:19:19 PM

Yep, too many parents try to engineer their kids into being national champs, instead of supporting them in learning good skills and having an age-appropriate experience. Same thing is happening in other sports. As a nation, we are doing this to our kids academically, too. Driving your kids to perform adult-level skills, even if they aren't developmentally ready, is the best way to discourage them. However, you do get to brag about how good your kid is and take a lot of the credit for his/her accomplishments, so that's cool. Apparently, it's the American way!