Rethinking things

[MantyWrestler]

I agree, pure madness every weekend!!!

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/676973-Top-5-dos-and-donts-for-parent-coaching

Great stuff Ben. Think I will bring up the idea of a "Parents Clinic" at Jr Ships tonight with the other coaches.

[ramjet]

My son Started seriously competing in 8th grade. We tried a couple time before he was not emotionally ready for some of the seriousness of the competition. When he decided he wanted to wrestle he made the choice and asked us to support his choice. In 7th grade he had JrHigh football injury that kept him out or he made have the choice in 7th grade to wrestle. Now he really worked hard and took his lumps but he achieved allot in those 5 years but he really put in allot of time and hard work to get better. I actually think each person is different and some do better than others but where as many he competed against moved on to college they would not wrestle at that level saying they were burned out. That is not the case with my son he says he loves it and is having a great time in College and wrestling. I do wonder if too much too soon is an issue. Having that intensity for only 5 years he never "learned" to hate wrestling like some kids do. In fact things like the relaxed atmosphere of Greco and FS helped my son with his continued interest without burnout. I also think that aided in his success in those disciplines. In fact his continued interest was because of a Greco and FS the clubs we visited were great atmospheres and teams and practices although intense were not as demanding. One other thing not near the cutting weight like high school Folkstyle. You could tell my loved both he was very competitive and placed high his last two years. Liking it makes a huge difference getting better comes with liking it.

Yup to much to soon to intense will turn many away.

I feel that you can start kids younger but no real reason to have it be so intense that they feel it is more work than fun.

Kids have so much more to gravitate towards these days and much of it is easier and more fun than wrestling and in any sport you push to hard to soon for too long and they will burn out. Giving a kid some time off on occasion is a good thing. But the intensity level is the key.

[Say-Say]

Maybe not having tournaments for anyone younger than 5th or 6th grade would be helpful. Football is a competitive sport, but they don't start tackle until kids are a bit older. Maybe just doing takedown tournaments or something similar for younger kids. It's a tough sport. I don't know that kids are emotionally equipped to handle it at such a young age.

[stbird]

What is no compete wrestling? 

Personally I think kids are born wrestlers.  Just like some are drawn to hunting.  They either like it or they don't and if they don't there's nothing you can do about it.  Wrestling is a tough sport and its one on one.  Some kids just don't have that kind of makeup.  I was drawn to it like flies to stink.  I had no wrestling history in my family.  One day with no training at all I asked my dad to take me to a tournament and I was hooked.  My boys hated it from day 1, and after 3 years of training, nothing serious, a family revolt won the day.  The key is to introduce as many kids to wrestling as possible and the ones that are born to it, will love it for the rest of their lives.

I do agree that getting the knucklehead parents off the mat would make it more enjoyable for everyone. 

[firemanscarry]

And I thought I was the only one who thought this way.

I know of a few kids who like to wrestle around in practice but find the tournaments absolutely terrifying.  I've seen a few younger kids winning their match and walking off before it was over because it was too loud and crazy.  And I've had parents tell me that they only took their kid to one youth tourney and then never returned their child to one because they hated the way it was at matside.  If no parents at matside was a rule at the tourney it could do a world of wonder for the kids' enjoyment.

Also, the no compete for younger kids is an excellent idea.  I remember one of my boys going to a tourney as a six-year-old, getting thrown into a headlock and having to leave the mat after twenty seconds.  Was he upset that he lost?  Nope.  He was upset that he only got to wrestle for a little bit.  That son has walked away from wrestling in the last couple years, but he's a fifth grader.  He may come back.

My other boy is a seventh grader who practices four nights a week with the junior high program and travels with the varsity.  I get confused looks from some of the other wrestling dads when I say that he's not doing any additional tournaments or schools or classes this year.  He doesn't want to.  He's in football, band, forensics, wants to try golf this spring, and manages to usually get straight A's.  He feels like his plate is full.  So do I.  Maybe that means he's not going to ever qualify for State, but I bet he wrestles all four years and likes it.

[ramjet]

Maybe that means he's not going to ever qualify for State, but I bet he wrestles all four years and likes it.

Maybe or maybe not.......

Goals:

Qualifying and Making the State Tournament is the goal of many and that is admirable goal and accomplishment, as is placing in the State Greco or FS tournament is also a tremendous accomplishment in High School Wrestling if it is not for your son then so be it. But what if he wants too?  Then you should be willing to get him the extra work he needs right? The best time I had with my son was traveling to clubs and tournaments it was wonderful times and we have allot great memories. Met a wonderful and variety of good folks too. My son made friends with allot of young men that will last him a life time. People he may very well network with later in life the common thing they had was wrestling.

Jack of all Trades Master of none thing comes to mind when we also force kids to be involved in way to much and spread them thin. Laser focus is not for everyone but for those that want to why not? It comes down to the individual kid as mentioned above they can handle it or not but that being said lets not burn them out before they hit the 4th grade............That pressure generally is greater from parents than Coaches. My son and I had deal with losses: its not the loss we focus on its the two other things what did we do well and what can we do to improve? The loss who cares it happens for reason figure out the reason you win more.

Speaking in general here;

I see no reason to eliminate any of these competitions if you do not want to take your child then thats fine do not take them. But lets not get thinking like communists here there are kids not only love to compete they live for it they should not have that opportunity taken away because another kid is not capable of handling it. So it comes down to personal choice by the parents and the kids. In the same token if one kid is doing it and tears up your kid who is not competing do not complain or say "Well that not fair that kid goes to allot of tournaments or works really hard its just not fair." It is fair he is doing it maybe wait then when your child is capable of taking on the challenge can fast track the improvement and beat that kid later on......

[DocWrestling]

Can we protect kids from themselves?  I have seen many kids "tear it up" and work hard and dominate in 2nd and 3rd grade or younger and they are having a blast.  But many of those don't wrestle later.  Many have early success on aggressiveness and athleticism and early grasps of skills.  Are we really harming their development but making them wait and building the anticipation?  Do things get less fun later because matches get harder and less success?  Do things get less fun because trophies and medals no longer mean anything?  Is it less fun because they have been there done that and now try something else?

[ramjet]

Can we protect kids from themselves?  I have seen many kids "tear it up" and work hard and dominate in 2nd and 3rd grade or younger and they are having a blast.  But many of those don't wrestle later.  Many have early success on aggressiveness and athleticism and early grasps of skills.  Are we really harming their development but making them wait and building the anticipation?  Do things get less fun later because matches get harder and less success?  Do things get less fun because trophies and medals no longer mean anything?  Is it less fun because they have been there done that and now try something else?

You would have to take a case by case basis I to know why they chose to do something else..anything else other than first hand information is speculation. Maybe we are too free with the medals stuff heck you get medal for going to the rest room! Why in the heck do they need a medal for participating maybe that is the issue it comes to easy. Building anticipation? Heck maybe they get bored and do so etching else anyways. To think the way you are suggesting you have to believe that wrestling is bad thing? Heck many young men will tell you differently. Not all the kids will stay with anything the kids and young folks now a days change all the time it is our culture to be impatient and feel entitled that's why we have to give medals to everyone to satisfy that desire. Look at longevity on jobs not what it used to be that's for.

Kids are going to quit being educated on how to make things fun and challenge them without discouraging is tough task these days and you cannot and will not please everyone. Keep it safe , keep it interesting, and give the opportunity to everyone.

Think about those games and things you did as kid and what was fun? Heck for me it was the pickup games with little organization and with competition emulating the great stars of the time while playing along with the neighbor kids. Weather you were first or last kid chosen for the team you wanted win and wanted to play and to contribute. You looked forward to sunny days to get outside and exact revenge if you were on the loosing team and to defend that win if in that position. So how do get that with wrestling program?

You sure as heck will not accomplish anything with restriction and regulation let the individual make the choice that means the parents. As a parent you have the control of who,where and when.

[firemanscarry]

YOUTH THOUGHTS--The way it is right now 95% of youth tourneys are the same thing.  They are a round-robin with scores and pins and a crush of adults surrounding the mat.  I don't know that anyone is advocating eliminating that type of tourney.  Maybe some are, but it was not my intent, and it's certainly not going to happen anyway.

What I would like to see is more variety in the types of tourneys offered for young kids.  No parents matside would be a good thing for many kids and their families.  No compete brackets for younger kids who just want to wrestle their full three minutes would also be a good thing for many kids.  If someone is pinned, restart them. 

Of course every tournament shouldn't be that way.  There should be regular competition for those who choose it.  I have no problem with youth State tourneys and the whole works.  I have come on this forum and stated that I don't think that wrestling schools hurt the sport, and that the kids who prosper by them are just reaping the rewards of their hard work.   Same is true of kids who wrestle all summer.

JR HI and HIGH SCHOOL--As a parent of a kid who participates in many activities and gets good grades, I find it a little funny sometimes that the parents of some of his band camp buddies find it every bit as odd that he doesn't get private lessons and attends only one camp during the summer as the wrestling parents find it odd that he doesn't go to the schools and camps and summer freestyle.  Simply put, there is nothing wrong with pursuing a variety of activities at a less intense level when you're a pre-teen or teenage kid.  If you would have asked me at age twelve or even seventeen which was more important to me, football or drama, I would have told you football.  At twenty, I would have told you drama.  Now, in the tail-end of my forties I coach football and direct drama.  If I hadn't explored both in school, a big part of my life would be missing.

ramjet, being "a jack of all trades, master of none" isn't a very good thing to be as an adult.  But for a high school kid it seems pretty normal and healthy to me.  Honestly, our generation likes to grump about "kids these days," but then we sometimes drive them away from being the same kids we were.  The majority of our generation did a little weight training and running in the summer, and we probably played a lot of pick-up basketball and baseball or softball.  Maybe we went to football camp for a week.  It's really okay to let our kids choose that if they want to.  It's just as okay to support them if they want to do something more intense.  Quite a few of our generation turned out alright, you know.  And the rest went into politics.

[firemanscarry]

It was clear, Tews.  I understood everything you were trying to say.

[padre]

While I think their is waaay too much mat craziness going on at the youth tournaments much depends on the youth coach.  Don't allow it!!!  Our club tells parents from the beginning that screaming matside is not the way to go and that we should allow kids to have as much fun as possible which isn't easy in such a brutal sport.  I also wish I could keep 100 percent of kids but know that it is not possible....but I am trying to make the competitive part of the sport as a learning experience from week to week...trying to show that good technique will prevail in the end.  This is not always easy with the headhunters out there but I think we are doing pretty well teaching kids that only lasts so long.

That being said our high school team has 11 starters that started by the 1st grade and some upper weights that came in later.  We have had success and I know you can't be a top team with kids that start their frosh year as starters....maybe good for numbers but many times they are not able to learn what they need to until at least their junior year....so its a catch 22.

[Buzz1979]

What is no compete wrestling? 

It is where the kids just wrestle.  No score is kept, and if a kid goes to his back instead of calling a pin they start both up again and continue to wrestle.  No pressure on the kids to win.  Just do there best and have fun.  I really like the fact that they were all guaranteed to get a 3 minute match.  Some really good insight, and posts here guys.  I really think there is an elephant in the room with our sport and though the answer isn't cut and dried we need to try to do something!

[Buzz1979]

trying to show that good technique will prevail in the end.  [/quote]

The problem is with the little guys good technique doesn't prevail.  The stronger/more aggresive kid wins EVERYTIME.  When they get a little bit older then yes technique does take over but not in the really young kids.

[dforsythe]

A lot of great thoughts on this thread. I read this post recently and I think it fits well with this topic.  http://www.handsfreemama.com/2012/04/16/six-words-you-should-say-today/

[Buzz1979]

Actually that couldn't be farther from the truth tews.  I only let my son wrestle 1 tournament this year and it's his first one that he ever wrestled.  And it was a no compete...So If I was just focusing on wins/losses don't you think I'd be the dad that's dragging him all over every weekend to get him some "mat time?"  Obviously I was mistaken about technique "never" working at a very young age but it is definately the exception not the rule.