Rethinking things

[Buzz1979]

I have been lurking here for a long time reading posts and decided to throw my hat in the ring and will probably get lit up pretty good but here goes.  Lately there has been alot of talk about what is causing the decline of high school wrestling in our state.  Everybody has an idea and is sure what the problem is.  I started coaching youth wrestling when my boy was just a tiny little baby and is now in first grade.  That first year was a real eye opener for me.  I couldn't believe how many dad's were screaming at there kids.  But when you talk to the dad's they say that all they care about is mat time and it's good for him to get his butt kicked.  I know not all were (are) like that but alot are.  Now my boy has been wrestling for the club for 3 years now I took him to his first tournament last Saturday.  It was over 2 hrs away but this tournament had a no compete class for prek-2nd grade and I wanted to compare the overall experience of the kids competing and also wanted my boys first tournament to be about him trying his best and using the technique that he has been practicing instead of worrrying about losing.  Let me tell you I saw only 1 kid cry the whole day!  And he was in the competitive kindergarten class and was getting throttled by a little guy that was a stud and his dad just kept pushing him back out there even though the kid hated it.  Now do you think that kid is going to love the sport of wrestling and continue to enjoy it or just quit?  Looking at that tournament there was like 350 +- kids there but most of the clubs that had kids there had to coop with another town for a high school team.  We must be doing something wrong if a wrestling club can have 40 kids in a youth tournament but can't get 14 on a high school team.  And if the key ingredient is "mat time" then why don't we try to get more of the no compete for the little guys to get hooked and love it instead of being about winning a state championship in 3rd grade?  If these kids have a bad experience at a very young age they will never try it again and we just lost another potential high school wrestler.  These kids have plenty of time in middle school and high school to worry about winning.  I believe that youth competition is killing our sport and we as adults are not willing to do anything about it.  Sorry for being so long winded.  So let the debate begin. 

[DocWrestling]

I believe that youth competition is killing our sport

I believe this is entirely true for all sports but it just happens that we start competitions at a much younger age in wrestling than other sports do and it is even harder because it is an individual sport and a sport that allows parents to be directly part of the competition by being on the mat.

As far as I know no other sport leaves our town for competition until 3rd grade.  Before that there might be some fun leagues/games where kids are playing with and against their friends and the rules have been modified to focus on fun and skill development.  I think wrestling might be the only sport that keeps score prior to 3rd grade.

Kids play for the fun of it especially at that age.  Horsing around and wrestling around with a buddy is fun but often the competition is not.  Competition is for the parents.

[spoonerwrestling]

I believe that youth competition is killing our sport

Competition is for the parents.

+1

[Buzz1979]

  Competition is for the parents.
[/quote]
+1  I couldn't agree with this more.  

[briggs]

I think this is a great post and I applaude you for putting it out there. Our k-4 program is tumbling, games and some wrestling mixxed in, empasis on fun and no or very litttle competiion. There is a post up right now discussing headlocks. Why are you even showing that in k-4 practice. These kids can barely control their own bodies and we are trying to get them to go out and control another wrestler. Sorrry but its stupid, this is not the only thing hurting wrestling but I beleive it is a huge part. My 2cents.

[justwrestle]

Great post, Buzz!  I have a seventh grade wrestler who is doing middle school wrestling and is not doing any tournaments this year.  My fourth grade wrestler decided to take the the year off.  They still beat on each other on the mat in the basement, and the older one is going to his first technique camp this summer.  I want them to WANT to wrestle in highs school not feel as though they must for me.  You are right; it is definitely a problem when we see so many huge clubs feeding into a high school program struggling with numbers.  If kids don't feel the pressure to win as little wrestlers, they will hopefully embrace the sport more and stick with it in high school.  The other frustration is seeing kids use moves that we as coaches know will not work when the wrestler gets older.  As that wrestler gets older and those moves no longer work, they become frustrated.  It takes a whole lot longer to unlearn a bad habit than it does to teach a good habit on the mat!

[Big House]

I believe that youth competition is killing our sport

Competition is for the parents.

+1

Add my 1 on there too!

[Buzz1979]

That is so true about undoing bad habits.  The thing that I really like with the no compete tournaments for the kids is that they are guarenteed 3 minutes per match!  There are no quick pins where the most agressive kid wins everytime.  They can concentrate on trying there shots, standups and riding.  I know that my little guy had a great time!  He even took a forehead to the bridge of the nose when he tried to shoot and still kept wrestling (after coming over to have mom make sure he was going to live. )  If we can just keep it fun for them I certainly think it couldn't hurt!

[LKing]

I did a brief study while I was still our high school coach.  Long story short, less than 10 percent of the kids that started in our youth wrestling program actually made it to me by their 9th grade year.  Over 50 percent of the youth hung it up by the time they hit 3rd grade.  This year we have 7 varsity wrestlers.

3 of my last 5 state qualifiers never wrestled a day before the 6th grade.  2 of them were medalists, one being a 3x qualifier and 2x place-winner.

I realize there are many "rights" and "wrongs".  I'm just giving out some stats that I gathered.

[imnofish]

I believe that youth competition is killing our sport

Competition is for the parents.

+1

Add my 1 on there too!

Mine, also! 

[Handles II]

So what is the solution?

1. Parents in the stands no matter what. Me included. This would not only be less pressure for the kids, but also our H.S. refs maybe some wouldn't hate reffing so bad and could become actual officials someday.
2. Non competitive K-2?
3. No headlocks K-4

These three things have been talked about adnausium on this and other wrestling boards across the nation. A heavy majority feel strongly that any or all of these changes should be made in an attempt to help keep our kids in our sport and draw new ones in. This has come out loud and clear by most H.S. coaches and even college coaches. A few tournaments here or there have done a few of them for a few years, but most didn't continue due to the complaining of a few loud parents.

How does the change begin? Where and with whom? It doesn't work if one town does it and the neighboring town doesn't.

[benaskren]

I agree, pure madness every weekend!!!

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/676973-Top-5-dos-and-donts-for-parent-coaching

[thequad]

I like the idea of no competition k-2. But I see this as very difficult to because of parents wanting scores kept.

[missinghome]

Great post. Go look at all the regionals last weekend. Very very few full brackets. A lot of 2 man brackets. I remember a few years back There was a kid who was really good. Talked to his dad once and he was telling me about how his older son was even better but when he was a freshman he up and quite. Dad says broke my heart. Then he precedes to tell me how he is driving his 10 yr old son 2 1/2 hrs one way 2 to 4 times a week to a wrestling school because the grade school he was going to "just didn't have what he needed" WTH! oh yea can't seem to find that kid on any track wrestling stuff anymore. Wonder why? I heard that USA hockey limits how much youth kids can do, because they were losing them as well. Not sure just something I heard.

[MantyWrestler]

As a parent of a high school senior, I will admit to creating a competitive nature in all my kids. that in itself is not bad but I feel at times I was giving my son the wrong impression in his early matches whether intentional or not. There came a time when I felt I might be losing him to the sport and not only backed off but told him he needed time off from time to time. I did this because I felt I had pushed him to the point that he was giving me the answer that he thought I wanted to hear. This was especially hard since I was also the coach for the local rec. program as well as X-Factor... His dad and coach.

From that point forward, he seemed to get more out of the sport and his love for the sport grew. Hind sight being 20-20, I would have done things different from the start. I strongly encourage parents not to worry about winning and losing but to evaluate their sons match and look for things they do correct and praise them. Also to teach what they did wrong but not really worry about the results of the match. All will be good in the long run.

Some observations I have noticed/learned.

1) I read somewhere that in Russia, their kids do not compete or even live wrestle more then 10 minutes per practice for the first 2 years!
2) The Kids Open in Illinois is one of the first tournaments to fill up each year in Illinois and there are no coaches or parents allowed matside. Only kids on the floor. Kids love it.
3) Parents are insane! No really, I have seen some things that would some  people cry. I don't think its always intentional but WAY over the top anyway.

Maybe we even need to do away with the kids state tournament until 5th grade. I would not like it because I love to coach and watch that age group but I think we need to think outside the box. See what works in other states ala Pennsylvania, Ohio and Jersey as well as other countries and make some real changes for the good of the sport

Our number 1 goal I put in place for the Jr Ships Wrestling Team I started 2 years ago it to have the kids love wrestling. Of course we want them to learn and improve and win but all that will happen in good time if they love the sport.