Should coaches hold out "less experienced" wrestlers?

[justaclone22]

What do you think would happen if this was done in any other sport?
Does every small school have 9 solid baseball players, 11 solid football players, 5 solid BB players?
Would a coach ever even consider only suiting up 10 football, 8 baseball or 4 BB players?
Why is wrestling any different?
Every other sport fields athletes that are not upper echelon players and sometimes they may even be detrimental to there team.
I would like to see what happens to coach who has 6-7 good football players and decides to only put them on the field while the rest of the players watch.
In wrestling whats the worst that could happen, one kid gives up 6 team points? In any other sport one kid could be the reason behind giving up lots of points yet no coach would play with less the the maximum amount of starters.

How many ball players would stick it out if they didn't get to play and your team played with less starters than you are allowed.

I like what crosface said, at this point of the season these kids are pretty committed to the team.
So as a coach you really have nothing to lose but a whole lot to gain.

The difference is that kids in those sports don't go into a situation in which they are spotlighted as individual competitors.  They are team sports and those kids can get physical support from their teammates.  When that inexperienced kid is on the mat, he is on his own. 

Tell the center fielder that lets the ball sail 2 inches beyond his outstretched glove or the point guard that lets the inbound pass bounce off his chest because he's got his head turned that they aren't in the spotlight as individuals.  Every team sport relies on individual contributions.

Or the center that snaps the ball over his QB's head and into his own endzone on the first play of the game.  mwahhahahahaha

I recently watched my granddaughter play center field for an entire softball season, as a senior flanked by two freshmen.  Her speed, experience, and maturity allowed her to cover most of the outfield and back up the youngsters on nearly every play.  When they messed up, she was there to help minimize the damage.  For example, I saw her scoop up a missed ground ball from left field and throw a runner out at home plate.   Can you give me a parallel example of this dynamic in wrestling? 

Judging by some of your responses, it seems to me that you are saying those other two girl's may not have been qualified to be on the varsity. They were obviously out of their league and I'm sure themselves and their parents were embarrassed at times.
Should those two girls been sent to the jv level and your granddaughter been in the field by herself?
I bet the thought never crossed your mind because it wouldn't have helped any of them.
So why is wrestling so different?

It isn't an apples-to-apples comparison to use any other sport to compare with how coaches deal with situations. In your last statement here, you suggest maybe the two corner outfielders aren't "qualified" to be on varsity. In baseball/softball, there are two major components to the game, offense & defense. Maybe the girls are the two best hitters on the team, and because the CF has so much range, the coach can "hide" the corner outfielders and still use their bats on offense.

Wrestling isn't like other sports. You have to have certain kids that fit a certain profile - that being they have to weigh a certain amount to be eligible for a specific weight class. There is also free substitution in most other sports. Most people learn by doing. You need practice time and time on the mat to get better. If you hold a kid that isn't ready for varsity competition and will get pinned in 0:20 seconds out of the varsity match because he can get 1 or 2 jv matches that may last 4-6 minutes each, think of the additional mat time this kid gets, rather than being on "varsity" in a spot that they have possibly only "earned" because they ate a lighter lunch and weigh less than their brother that day.

[guillotine]

What do you think would happen if this was done in any other sport?
Does every small school have 9 solid baseball players, 11 solid football players, 5 solid BB players?
Would a coach ever even consider only suiting up 10 football, 8 baseball or 4 BB players?
Why is wrestling any different?
Every other sport fields athletes that are not upper echelon players and sometimes they may even be detrimental to there team.
I would like to see what happens to coach who has 6-7 good football players and decides to only put them on the field while the rest of the players watch.
In wrestling whats the worst that could happen, one kid gives up 6 team points? In any other sport one kid could be the reason behind giving up lots of points yet no coach would play with less the the maximum amount of starters.

How many ball players would stick it out if they didn't get to play and your team played with less starters than you are allowed.

I like what crosface said, at this point of the season these kids are pretty committed to the team.
So as a coach you really have nothing to lose but a whole lot to gain.

The difference is that kids in those sports don't go into a situation in which they are spotlighted as individual competitors.  They are team sports and those kids can get physical support from their teammates.  When that inexperienced kid is on the mat, he is on his own. 

Tell the center fielder that lets the ball sail 2 inches beyond his outstretched glove or the point guard that lets the inbound pass bounce off his chest because he's got his head turned that they aren't in the spotlight as individuals.  Every team sport relies on individual contributions.

Or the center that snaps the ball over his QB's head and into his own endzone on the first play of the game.  mwahhahahahaha

I recently watched my granddaughter play center field for an entire softball season, as a senior flanked by two freshmen.  Her speed, experience, and maturity allowed her to cover most of the outfield and back up the youngsters on nearly every play.  When they messed up, she was there to help minimize the damage.  For example, I saw her scoop up a missed ground ball from left field and throw a runner out at home plate.   Can you give me a parallel example of this dynamic in wrestling? 

Judging by some of your responses, it seems to me that you are saying those other two girl's may not have been qualified to be on the varsity. They were obviously out of their league and I'm sure themselves and their parents were embarrassed at times.
Should those two girls been sent to the jv level and your granddaughter been in the field by herself?
I bet the thought never crossed your mind because it wouldn't have helped any of them.
So why is wrestling so different?

It isn't an apples-to-apples comparison to use any other sport to compare with how coaches deal with situations. In your last statement here, you suggest maybe the two corner outfielders aren't "qualified" to be on varsity. In baseball/softball, there are two major components to the game, offense & defense. Maybe the girls are the two best hitters on the team, and because the CF has so much range, the coach can "hide" the corner outfielders and still use their bats on offense.

Wrestling isn't like other sports. You have to have certain kids that fit a certain profile - that being they have to weigh a certain amount to be eligible for a specific weight class. There is also free substitution in most other sports. Most people learn by doing. You need practice time and time on the mat to get better. If you hold a kid that isn't ready for varsity competition and will get pinned in 0:20 seconds out of the varsity match because he can get 1 or 2 jv matches that may last 4-6 minutes each, think of the additional mat time this kid gets, rather than being on "varsity" in a spot that they have possibly only "earned" because they ate a lighter lunch and weigh less than their brother that day.

And MAYBE those two outfielders were the worst hitters in the league but their coach put them in the lineup because they were the best they had. And MAYBE  next year or down the road they turn into very reliable players and maybe even excel at the game.
Don't come on here and tell everyone it isn't apples to apples then throw a bunch of MAYBEYS around.
You act like every varsity wrestler is going to pin a JV wrestler in 20 seconds every time. Who says just because a coach says you can't wrestle varsity that they are not able to win a varsity match or be competitive in a varsity match?
Take a look at the teams at any given non elimination tournament, then look at the bottom half of the records in any weight class . I would be shocked if more time than not there are more VARSITY wrestlers with losing records wrestling on the back side of the bracket than winning records. Should they all be demoted to JV or do they get some pretty darn good competition on the backside of those tournaments?
If you read the entire post you can see that Alumni is talking about a specific incident. Not the beginning of the year where there are JV opportunity's.
He made it very clear that this team has a chance at a conference and regional championship and the coach has made a decision not to allow several of the underclassmen to participate.

[Alumni]

What do you think would happen if this was done in any other sport?
Does every small school have 9 solid baseball players, 11 solid football players, 5 solid BB players?
Would a coach ever even consider only suiting up 10 football, 8 baseball or 4 BB players?
Why is wrestling any different?
Every other sport fields athletes that are not upper echelon players and sometimes they may even be detrimental to there team.
I would like to see what happens to coach who has 6-7 good football players and decides to only put them on the field while the rest of the players watch.
In wrestling whats the worst that could happen, one kid gives up 6 team points? In any other sport one kid could be the reason behind giving up lots of points yet no coach would play with less the the maximum amount of starters.

How many ball players would stick it out if they didn't get to play and your team played with less starters than you are allowed.

I like what crosface said, at this point of the season these kids are pretty committed to the team.
So as a coach you really have nothing to lose but a whole lot to gain.

The difference is that kids in those sports don't go into a situation in which they are spotlighted as individual competitors.  They are team sports and those kids can get physical support from their teammates.  When that inexperienced kid is on the mat, he is on his own. 

Tell the center fielder that lets the ball sail 2 inches beyond his outstretched glove or the point guard that lets the inbound pass bounce off his chest because he's got his head turned that they aren't in the spotlight as individuals.  Every team sport relies on individual contributions.

Or the center that snaps the ball over his QB's head and into his own endzone on the first play of the game.  mwahhahahahaha

I recently watched my granddaughter play center field for an entire softball season, as a senior flanked by two freshmen.  Her speed, experience, and maturity allowed her to cover most of the outfield and back up the youngsters on nearly every play.  When they messed up, she was there to help minimize the damage.  For example, I saw her scoop up a missed ground ball from left field and throw a runner out at home plate.   Can you give me a parallel example of this dynamic in wrestling? 

Judging by some of your responses, it seems to me that you are saying those other two girl's may not have been qualified to be on the varsity. They were obviously out of their league and I'm sure themselves and their parents were embarrassed at times.
Should those two girls been sent to the jv level and your granddaughter been in the field by herself?
I bet the thought never crossed your mind because it wouldn't have helped any of them.
So why is wrestling so different?

It isn't an apples-to-apples comparison to use any other sport to compare with how coaches deal with situations. In your last statement here, you suggest maybe the two corner outfielders aren't "qualified" to be on varsity. In baseball/softball, there are two major components to the game, offense & defense. Maybe the girls are the two best hitters on the team, and because the CF has so much range, the coach can "hide" the corner outfielders and still use their bats on offense.

Wrestling isn't like other sports. You have to have certain kids that fit a certain profile - that being they have to weigh a certain amount to be eligible for a specific weight class. There is also free substitution in most other sports. Most people learn by doing. You need practice time and time on the mat to get better. If you hold a kid that isn't ready for varsity competition and will get pinned in 0:20 seconds out of the varsity match because he can get 1 or 2 jv matches that may last 4-6 minutes each, think of the additional mat time this kid gets, rather than being on "varsity" in a spot that they have possibly only "earned" because they ate a lighter lunch and weigh less than their brother that day.

I didn't suggest they weren't qualified, I suggested that Fish suggested that maybe they weren't qualified.
So I suggest that if you have a suggestion about whether I made a suggestion or was suggesting that someone else made a suggestion you should read it a little closer. ;/

[imnofish]

So are you guys saying that if you don't have all weight classes filled you can't compete in that duel?  There are rules in baseball, football, and softball where you have to have a minimum number of players.  I am sure you know this but are you saying we should force coaches to send kids out even if they feel that shouldn't?  

Chuck

Chuck, you obviously get my point.  Maybe you could draw a few diagrams for them.   

[chuckref]

I'm still waiting for their answer. 

Chuck

[bigG]

Might harm the very most vulnerable; but I do trust a coach, and the competitor, there.

I like telling that kid who worked hard "win..lose..who cares? Just go get him and win/loss be danged. Give 'em whatcha got, BUT ALL OF WHAT YOU GOT.; no regrets if you do that. No tantrums if you lose; walk like a man."
Good day when they don't get pinned. Better, if they don't get teched. Even better if they lose major decision or just have the sand to keep it close. That's my favorite magic wrestling moment, when that kid who took the whoopin's gives a good one to someone he shouldn't beat. I'm not a kissy person; but that kid deserves some accolades. Makes my day.

I'd rather lose than not wrestle. Been pinned plenty. Makes you dislike getting pinned more.

When the wrestlers come back with their own wives and kids, they always say they miss the duals. Something important about the team aspect to my kids. They seem to resemble an ant hill with many workers and a few supervisors. Nice team. Don't mess with ants. I learned the hard way. Leaf cutters are bad boyz.



Or "JUST DON'T GET PINNED!!!!"

jk

[imnofish]

What do you think would happen if this was done in any other sport?
Does every small school have 9 solid baseball players, 11 solid football players, 5 solid BB players?
Would a coach ever even consider only suiting up 10 football, 8 baseball or 4 BB players?
Why is wrestling any different?
Every other sport fields athletes that are not upper echelon players and sometimes they may even be detrimental to there team.
I would like to see what happens to coach who has 6-7 good football players and decides to only put them on the field while the rest of the players watch.
In wrestling whats the worst that could happen, one kid gives up 6 team points? In any other sport one kid could be the reason behind giving up lots of points yet no coach would play with less the the maximum amount of starters.

How many ball players would stick it out if they didn't get to play and your team played with less starters than you are allowed.

I like what crosface said, at this point of the season these kids are pretty committed to the team.
So as a coach you really have nothing to lose but a whole lot to gain.

The difference is that kids in those sports don't go into a situation in which they are spotlighted as individual competitors.  They are team sports and those kids can get physical support from their teammates.  When that inexperienced kid is on the mat, he is on his own. 

Tell the center fielder that lets the ball sail 2 inches beyond his outstretched glove or the point guard that lets the inbound pass bounce off his chest because he's got his head turned that they aren't in the spotlight as individuals.  Every team sport relies on individual contributions.

Or the center that snaps the ball over his QB's head and into his own endzone on the first play of the game.  mwahhahahahaha

I recently watched my granddaughter play center field for an entire softball season, as a senior flanked by two freshmen.  Her speed, experience, and maturity allowed her to cover most of the outfield and back up the youngsters on nearly every play.  When they messed up, she was there to help minimize the damage.  For example, I saw her scoop up a missed ground ball from left field and throw a runner out at home plate.   Can you give me a parallel example of this dynamic in wrestling? 

Judging by some of your responses, it seems to me that you are saying those other two girl's may not have been qualified to be on the varsity. They were obviously out of their league and I'm sure themselves and their parents were embarrassed at times.
Should those two girls been sent to the jv level and your granddaughter been in the field by herself?
I bet the thought never crossed your mind because it wouldn't have helped any of them.
So why is wrestling so different?

It isn't an apples-to-apples comparison to use any other sport to compare with how coaches deal with situations. In your last statement here, you suggest maybe the two corner outfielders aren't "qualified" to be on varsity. In baseball/softball, there are two major components to the game, offense & defense. Maybe the girls are the two best hitters on the team, and because the CF has so much range, the coach can "hide" the corner outfielders and still use their bats on offense.

Wrestling isn't like other sports. You have to have certain kids that fit a certain profile - that being they have to weigh a certain amount to be eligible for a specific weight class. There is also free substitution in most other sports. Most people learn by doing. You need practice time and time on the mat to get better. If you hold a kid that isn't ready for varsity competition and will get pinned in 0:20 seconds out of the varsity match because he can get 1 or 2 jv matches that may last 4-6 minutes each, think of the additional mat time this kid gets, rather than being on "varsity" in a spot that they have possibly only "earned" because they ate a lighter lunch and weigh less than their brother that day.

I didn't suggest they weren't qualified, I suggested that Fish suggested that maybe they weren't qualified.
So I suggest that if you have a suggestion about whether I made a suggestion or was suggesting that someone else made a suggestion you should read it a little closer. ;/

I want to go on the record here as stating that I was in no way suggesting that the two freshmen outfielders weren't qualified.  As I previously stated, they made their contributions to the team.  They made plays, but benefited from the backup that a more experienced player was able to provide, when it was needed.  As the season wore on, that support was needed less and less, due to their growth in the position.  Of course, they could hit the ball, too.  This story was shared for the purpose of illustrating the ability of team members to assist each other in some sports, but in ways that wrestlers can't.  Team sports require the filling of each position, without the option of "forfeiting" that component of the competition.  This puts them in the position of having to play the best (and sometimes only) candidate available for each position.  At times, this puts the coach in the unenviable position of having to put a player on varsity prematurely, so that the team is able to participate.  Wrestling is unique in that it gives coaches the latitude to avoid that situation, by forfeiting a weight class, without disqualifying the rest of the team from competition.   Apparently, the coach of your local team has made the determination that it is in the best interests of some wrestlers to postpone their varsity experience.  Evidently, you take issue with that and have come on here to gain assurance that you are right about this and the coach is wrong.  I say this because you ask for our opinions, but then seem to argue toward a particular viewpoint, perhaps unconsciously.  The fact remains that it is the coach's responsibility to make the decision in question and no amount of discussion on here is going to change that.  Sorry if my tone sounds a bit harsh, but that's the reality of the situation.  In the best interest of the team and its members, I suggest that you put your full support behind the coach, because he obviously is taking his responsibility to these kids seriously... and that should be the top priority.

[Mat Warrior]

In other sports there is minimum amount of player you can play with. Do you See a coach only playing with 7 baseball players or 4 basketball players(the minimum might be only 3)?

I am sure they would and have had someone out there that should not be playing at that level because they know   their chances are better with extra bodies.

In basketball the 5th person can still slow someone down no matter how bad they are.

[Alumni]

What do you think would happen if this was done in any other sport?
Does every small school have 9 solid baseball players, 11 solid football players, 5 solid BB players?
Would a coach ever even consider only suiting up 10 football, 8 baseball or 4 BB players?
Why is wrestling any different?
Every other sport fields athletes that are not upper echelon players and sometimes they may even be detrimental to there team.
I would like to see what happens to coach who has 6-7 good football players and decides to only put them on the field while the rest of the players watch.
In wrestling whats the worst that could happen, one kid gives up 6 team points? In any other sport one kid could be the reason behind giving up lots of points yet no coach would play with less the the maximum amount of starters.

How many ball players would stick it out if they didn't get to play and your team played with less starters than you are allowed.

I like what crosface said, at this point of the season these kids are pretty committed to the team.
So as a coach you really have nothing to lose but a whole lot to gain.

The difference is that kids in those sports don't go into a situation in which they are spotlighted as individual competitors.  They are team sports and those kids can get physical support from their teammates.  When that inexperienced kid is on the mat, he is on his own. 

Tell the center fielder that lets the ball sail 2 inches beyond his outstretched glove or the point guard that lets the inbound pass bounce off his chest because he's got his head turned that they aren't in the spotlight as individuals.  Every team sport relies on individual contributions.

Or the center that snaps the ball over his QB's head and into his own endzone on the first play of the game.  mwahhahahahaha

I recently watched my granddaughter play center field for an entire softball season, as a senior flanked by two freshmen.  Her speed, experience, and maturity allowed her to cover most of the outfield and back up the youngsters on nearly every play.  When they messed up, she was there to help minimize the damage.  For example, I saw her scoop up a missed ground ball from left field and throw a runner out at home plate.   Can you give me a parallel example of this dynamic in wrestling? 

Judging by some of your responses, it seems to me that you are saying those other two girl's may not have been qualified to be on the varsity. They were obviously out of their league and I'm sure themselves and their parents were embarrassed at times.
Should those two girls been sent to the jv level and your granddaughter been in the field by herself?
I bet the thought never crossed your mind because it wouldn't have helped any of them.
So why is wrestling so different?

It isn't an apples-to-apples comparison to use any other sport to compare with how coaches deal with situations. In your last statement here, you suggest maybe the two corner outfielders aren't "qualified" to be on varsity. In baseball/softball, there are two major components to the game, offense & defense. Maybe the girls are the two best hitters on the team, and because the CF has so much range, the coach can "hide" the corner outfielders and still use their bats on offense.

Wrestling isn't like other sports. You have to have certain kids that fit a certain profile - that being they have to weigh a certain amount to be eligible for a specific weight class. There is also free substitution in most other sports. Most people learn by doing. You need practice time and time on the mat to get better. If you hold a kid that isn't ready for varsity competition and will get pinned in 0:20 seconds out of the varsity match because he can get 1 or 2 jv matches that may last 4-6 minutes each, think of the additional mat time this kid gets, rather than being on "varsity" in a spot that they have possibly only "earned" because they ate a lighter lunch and weigh less than their brother that day.

I didn't suggest they weren't qualified, I suggested that Fish suggested that maybe they weren't qualified.
So I suggest that if you have a suggestion about whether I made a suggestion or was suggesting that someone else made a suggestion you should read it a little closer. ;/

I want to go on the record here as stating that I was in no way suggesting that the two freshmen outfielders weren't qualified.  As I previously stated, they made their contributions to the team.  They made plays, but benefited from the backup that a more experienced player was able to provide, when it was needed.  As the season wore on, that support was needed less and less, due to their growth in the position.  Of course, they could hit the ball, too.  This story was shared for the purpose of illustrating the ability of team members to assist each other in some sports, but in ways that wrestlers can't.  Team sports require the filling of each position, without the option of "forfeiting" that component of the competition.  This puts them in the position of having to play the best (and sometimes only) candidate available for each position.  At times, this puts the coach in the unenviable position of having to put a player on varsity prematurely, so that the team is able to participate.  Wrestling is unique in that it gives coaches the latitude to avoid that situation, by forfeiting a weight class, without disqualifying the rest of the team from competition.   Apparently, the coach of your local team has made the determination that it is in the best interests of some wrestlers to postpone their varsity experience.  Evidently, you take issue with that and have come on here to gain assurance that you are right about this and the coach is wrong.  I say this because you ask for our opinions, but then seem to argue toward a particular viewpoint, perhaps unconsciously.  The fact remains that it is the coach's responsibility to make the decision in question and no amount of discussion on here is going to change that.  Sorry if my tone sounds a bit harsh, but that's the reality of the situation.  In the best interest of the team and its members, I suggest that you put your full support behind the coach, because he obviously is taking his responsibility to these kids seriously... and that should be the top priority.

Believe me Fish, I don't need your assurance or anyone else's to make up my mind what I feel is right or wrong. It seems like you are asking for the assurance that your opinion is right by having Chuck validate your point.
Maybe comparing to other sports is completely different but I don't think so. I think you think that because your still stuck in the mind set that Wrestling is an individual sport. And please don't lecture me on how wrestling is unique.
Excuse me if I don't go through life blindly following our leadership, I don't think this coach is right so I'm not going to blindly follow and agree. Sure there is nothing I can do about it and the forum sometimes is a good place just to vent.
Wrestling has taught me that you need a team to succeed but you are also an individual and should lead your life having your own thoughts and ideas not just following someone else's just because they may be the one in charge.
That's why our country is in the shape it is now.
I absolutely respect your opinions and have looked forward to reading them, I just don't agree this time.

[imnofish]

What do you think would happen if this was done in any other sport?
Does every small school have 9 solid baseball players, 11 solid football players, 5 solid BB players?
Would a coach ever even consider only suiting up 10 football, 8 baseball or 4 BB players?
Why is wrestling any different?
Every other sport fields athletes that are not upper echelon players and sometimes they may even be detrimental to there team.
I would like to see what happens to coach who has 6-7 good football players and decides to only put them on the field while the rest of the players watch.
In wrestling whats the worst that could happen, one kid gives up 6 team points? In any other sport one kid could be the reason behind giving up lots of points yet no coach would play with less the the maximum amount of starters.

How many ball players would stick it out if they didn't get to play and your team played with less starters than you are allowed.

I like what crosface said, at this point of the season these kids are pretty committed to the team.
So as a coach you really have nothing to lose but a whole lot to gain.

The difference is that kids in those sports don't go into a situation in which they are spotlighted as individual competitors.  They are team sports and those kids can get physical support from their teammates.  When that inexperienced kid is on the mat, he is on his own. 

Tell the center fielder that lets the ball sail 2 inches beyond his outstretched glove or the point guard that lets the inbound pass bounce off his chest because he's got his head turned that they aren't in the spotlight as individuals.  Every team sport relies on individual contributions.

Or the center that snaps the ball over his QB's head and into his own endzone on the first play of the game.  mwahhahahahaha

I recently watched my granddaughter play center field for an entire softball season, as a senior flanked by two freshmen.  Her speed, experience, and maturity allowed her to cover most of the outfield and back up the youngsters on nearly every play.  When they messed up, she was there to help minimize the damage.  For example, I saw her scoop up a missed ground ball from left field and throw a runner out at home plate.   Can you give me a parallel example of this dynamic in wrestling? 

Judging by some of your responses, it seems to me that you are saying those other two girl's may not have been qualified to be on the varsity. They were obviously out of their league and I'm sure themselves and their parents were embarrassed at times.
Should those two girls been sent to the jv level and your granddaughter been in the field by herself?
I bet the thought never crossed your mind because it wouldn't have helped any of them.
So why is wrestling so different?

It isn't an apples-to-apples comparison to use any other sport to compare with how coaches deal with situations. In your last statement here, you suggest maybe the two corner outfielders aren't "qualified" to be on varsity. In baseball/softball, there are two major components to the game, offense & defense. Maybe the girls are the two best hitters on the team, and because the CF has so much range, the coach can "hide" the corner outfielders and still use their bats on offense.

Wrestling isn't like other sports. You have to have certain kids that fit a certain profile - that being they have to weigh a certain amount to be eligible for a specific weight class. There is also free substitution in most other sports. Most people learn by doing. You need practice time and time on the mat to get better. If you hold a kid that isn't ready for varsity competition and will get pinned in 0:20 seconds out of the varsity match because he can get 1 or 2 jv matches that may last 4-6 minutes each, think of the additional mat time this kid gets, rather than being on "varsity" in a spot that they have possibly only "earned" because they ate a lighter lunch and weigh less than their brother that day.

I didn't suggest they weren't qualified, I suggested that Fish suggested that maybe they weren't qualified.
So I suggest that if you have a suggestion about whether I made a suggestion or was suggesting that someone else made a suggestion you should read it a little closer. ;/

I want to go on the record here as stating that I was in no way suggesting that the two freshmen outfielders weren't qualified.  As I previously stated, they made their contributions to the team.  They made plays, but benefited from the backup that a more experienced player was able to provide, when it was needed.  As the season wore on, that support was needed less and less, due to their growth in the position.  Of course, they could hit the ball, too.  This story was shared for the purpose of illustrating the ability of team members to assist each other in some sports, but in ways that wrestlers can't.  Team sports require the filling of each position, without the option of "forfeiting" that component of the competition.  This puts them in the position of having to play the best (and sometimes only) candidate available for each position.  At times, this puts the coach in the unenviable position of having to put a player on varsity prematurely, so that the team is able to participate.  Wrestling is unique in that it gives coaches the latitude to avoid that situation, by forfeiting a weight class, without disqualifying the rest of the team from competition.   Apparently, the coach of your local team has made the determination that it is in the best interests of some wrestlers to postpone their varsity experience.  Evidently, you take issue with that and have come on here to gain assurance that you are right about this and the coach is wrong.  I say this because you ask for our opinions, but then seem to argue toward a particular viewpoint, perhaps unconsciously.  The fact remains that it is the coach's responsibility to make the decision in question and no amount of discussion on here is going to change that.  Sorry if my tone sounds a bit harsh, but that's the reality of the situation.  In the best interest of the team and its members, I suggest that you put your full support behind the coach, because he obviously is taking his responsibility to these kids seriously... and that should be the top priority.

Believe me Fish, I don't need your assurance or anyone else's to make up my mind what I feel is right or wrong. It seems like you are asking for the assurance that your opinion is right by having Chuck validate your point.
Maybe comparing to other sports is completely different but I don't think so. I think you think that because your still stuck in the mind set that Wrestling is an individual sport. And please don't lecture me on how wrestling is unique.
Excuse me if I don't go through life blindly following our leadership, I don't think this coach is right so I'm not going to blindly follow and agree. Sure there is nothing I can do about it and the forum sometimes is a good place just to vent.
Wrestling has taught me that you need a team to succeed but you are also an individual and should lead your life having your own thoughts and ideas not just following someone else's just because they may be the one in charge.
That's why our country is in the shape it is now.
I absolutely respect your opinions and have looked forward to reading them, I just don't agree this time.

Of course I am aware of wrestling's team and individual dimensions, which are integral to its unique nature.  With 20+ years of coaching experience and 54 years of discussing the sport with a coach/father and 3 brothers whom have coached, my take is bound to be different than yours.  Sorry if my opinion came across as a lecture, but you did ask me to share it with you.  I tend to call it as I see it, but I sometimes can be pretty blunt about things.  The reason I advocate supporting the coach's decision is not that I expect you to blindly follow leadership.  Of course you are entitled to your own perspectives, but sometimes when we really have no power to change a situation, it is easy to overlook how our actions might affect others.  As a parent and coach, I sometimes disagreed with decisions made by other coaches, especially when they were coaching my kids.  However, I was careful to never convey that displeasure or even share it publicly in any way, because I did not want it to cause my kids and their teammates to question the coaches' leadership and/or become a distraction.  Whether or not you have a child on the team, I just ask you to consider that potential effect, in the future.  I certainly reciprocate your respect and appreciate your discussion on here.  Best of luck to your school's team, going forward!

[bigoil]

I think it is very fair for a parent to openly communicate with a coach. If your desire is to not have a child wrestle up, that should be a choice you are part of. The reverse, gotta side with the coach.

[guillotine]

Team in question loses the championship by 24  points. Forfeited 5 weight classes on purpose.

[chuckref]

Again I'm not sure if you are saying we should force coaches to make kids wrestle or not?  I think Wisconsin should try to push the team aspect of wrestling MORE.  So if a team only had say 10 weight classes filled do the forfeit the entire match?  I think kids should wrestle more too but that should be the coach and kids' decision.  I like the conversation and there are some good points here.

Chuck

[guillotine]

I don't think that coaches should be forced to make kids wrestle but maybe they shouldn't force kids not to wrestle.

[imnofish]

Team in question loses the championship by 24  points. Forfeited 5 weight classes on purpose.

Do we know if filling those weight classes with kids the coach deems unready would have resulted in an additional 25 points and assured a victory, though?