What is a slam?

tmandr · February 02, 2014, 11:05:12 AM

I figured one of you guys with a rule book could quote the part governing a slam? I thought it was basically, if you pick your opponent up, you are responsible for their safe return to the mat.

Yesterday at the Pulaski Tournament, I watched a Merrill kid pick up a LC kid, turn him upside down and slam him on his head and the ref seemed only concerned with counting nearfall. Merrill was awarded the win, EMS came and carted the LC kid off. (Does anyone know if he is OK?)

This in contrast to a slam I saw called at state last year where a Bay Port kid was aggressively returning a kid to the mat on his belly after a stand-up which I see routinely done in the sport. In this match, it seemed when the ref noticed the bottom kid was impaired, he stopped the match and awarded the penalty point which cost Bay Port kid the match.

head57 · February 02, 2014, 11:22:01 AM

Regardless of what the rulebook says, it is a judgement call in which countless variables might lead one person to call things one way and another person may call it entirely differently.

To oversimplify, though, it comes down to control.

aarons23 · February 02, 2014, 11:56:36 AM

From what I heard the LC kid was eating at Applebee's by the end of the tourney so it sounds like he will be fine!

JapanMan · February 02, 2014, 12:40:12 PM

If the merril kid had maintained control on the way down it would have been legal. From where I was sitting which was 7 rows up from the mat, it was a definite slam. If your going to pick a guy up it's still your responsibility to bring him down to the mat safely. I don't know what the ref was thinking counting near fall right away because the LC kid was dropped right on his head. Glad the kids ok!

bigG · February 02, 2014, 02:51:34 PM

Tough call to make because often the lifted wrestler is often fighting like nuts, so it's dang hard to control the return to the mat by the lifter.

Judgment. But also scary if an unethical coach is involved. Still, it's about the safest option to let the ref make the judgment; but it also opens the ref up to criticism.

thequad · February 02, 2014, 03:39:42 PM

If you lift a wrestler off the mat and can't control him you better figure out a way to get him back safely, it's your responsibility.

npope · February 02, 2014, 03:43:46 PM

Quote from: thequad on February 02, 2014, 03:39:42 PM
If you lift a wrestler off the mat and can't control him you better figure out a way to get him back safely, it's your responsibility.

That's the bottom line - you lift the kid off the mat, you own the consequence.

tmandr · February 03, 2014, 08:41:32 AM

Quote from: npope on February 02, 2014, 03:43:46 PM
Quote from: thequad on February 02, 2014, 03:39:42 PM
If you lift a wrestler off the mat and can't control him you better figure out a way to get him back safely, it's your responsibility.

That's the bottom line - you lift the kid off the mat, you own the consequence.

Unfortunately, the only consequence hear was victory for the Merrill kid. I'm not positive but I think there was even a second ref on this mat. In general, I'm really not sure what that second rough is doing most of the time but you would think ensuring safety would be high on the list. Is this the type of thing of 2nd ref could have intervened for? This is the first tournament, in a different match, where I saw a second ref overrule a primary ref who was pretty sure of his original call concerning a takedown at the buzzer.

briggs · February 03, 2014, 10:08:24 AM

I like the "unecessary roughness" call instead of a slam. Same point but then you don't have to justify it to the coach if he said "that was not a slam, his feet were not above his head etcc.."

crossface21 · February 03, 2014, 12:57:32 PM

I don't believe the 2nd referee can make a decision because it's a judgement call. The head referee needs to make the call. Could be wrong though. In the rule book I believe it says what the 2nd referee is responsible for if you have one.

chuckref · February 03, 2014, 01:29:40 PM

Just a bit of clarification, the assistant referee CANNOT over rule anyone. They can have a conference, but the final decision is the REFEREE's.

Chuck

eagle91 · February 03, 2014, 01:43:45 PM

Hi I am a new guy to the block.Just was reading the post about a slam I was sitting a few feet from the mat when the Merril and the L-C match was going on i have been around wrestling for a long time, that was definatly a slam. I seen less of a slam being called a slam. The L-C kid didn't move a muscle after,from hearing what the coaches from L-C said that the kid was knock out for over 5 minutes. I seen the kid come back to the tourny and i talked to his dad when they returned the family was still shacked up. Glad the kid is fine but don't think the kid is wrestling anymore this year. I also want to give my hat off to the Pulaski School to the way they helped the family.

bulldog · February 03, 2014, 04:46:44 PM

Quote from: bigG on February 02, 2014, 02:51:34 PM
Tough call to make because often the lifted wrestler is often fighting like nuts, so it's dang hard to control the return to the mat by the lifter.

Judgment. But also scary if an unethical coach is involved. Still, it's about the safest option to let the ref make the judgment; but it also opens the ref up to criticism.

"Unethical Coach" did I miss something? Did one of the coaches do something?

Spartan · February 03, 2014, 08:29:53 PM

Bulldog, he is referring to coaches who have their wrestler stay down and get the win when they are not hurt.

tmandr · February 03, 2014, 10:07:49 PM

Quote from: chuckref on February 03, 2014, 01:29:40 PM
Just a bit of clarification, the assistant referee CANNOT over rule anyone. They can have a conference, but the final decision is the REFEREE's.

Chuck

I believe you that this is the way it is supposed to be but I am 100% positive that in a 160# match (for 5th place or possibly the qualifier for the 5th place match) Jossart from Bay Port was confidently awarded a takedown by the primary ref at the buzzer ending the first period when the second ref came in and said NO (without asking for a conference or anything else). Then the primmary ref changed his mind. It was very strange.