Are wrestling schools hurting teams?

[ramjet]

I think the original question is based upon an observed polarization among the skill levels of athletic participants.  As others have stated, specialization in a particular sport tends to minimize participation in others.  The decreased number of participants results in a lack of depth in the overall competition, evidenced by the high numbers of forfeits and pins.  How much better would our elite athletes be, if the average/above average competitor was more prevalent on today's teams?  How much better would our least competitive wrestlers be?  In some schools, I also see other sports, such as basketball and football suffering from a lack of depth/consistent skill performance, as rosters have dwindled.  The bottom line is that the athletic experience has lost its balance.  Where has it gone?  How can we restore it?  Must the pursuit of excellence be abandoned, in order to regain it?

The good wrestlers make everyone better in a given room if they are team oriented.

[ramjet]

I would say that high school teams participation is fully contingent on 2 things.

1) Coaches ability to relate to the kids
2) Coaches willingness to put effort forth in recruiting.

I disagree on the adjective. FULLY.

I agree that both things are essential. Some kids wrestle for the coach before themselves. They wrestle because their program makes them feel like a part of something. To those kids, the coach is more important than the sport and winning.

Not all kids are like that.

Other factors: Tradition, popularity of current wrestlers, winning as a team, winning as an individual, community commitment, HS administration, kids wrestling club, other offerings at the school, and a million other things come into it.

I think Demos is doing a good job out at BC. I commend him on the current numbers he has. I hope it lasts for him. I believe, however, that his program, like all programs, will ebb and flow. Will he be able to sustain those numbers? We will see.

But to the question do you think Wrestling Schools help or hurt the sport? Or no impact really other than those who go to them?

The only way I could see the answer being yes is if you actually believe the sport of wrestling ONLY teaches the sport and physical act of wrestling. There is much more to it. I also want to say this; young men and women will live UP or DOWN to expectations.

[Ghetto]

I do not think wrestling schools hurt wrestling in the manner that we are polarizing kids towards extremes.

My issue is remembering who you wrestle for. I'll be honest, if one of my kids goes to a tournament, and they sign up as wrestling for AWA or Ringers, and not Whitefish Bay, it bothers me. I have no delusions that I know more then Ben or Max, or Schmitz or D'Alie, but for four months out of the year I put their happiness before my own, and my kids. I do it for dang near free. I feel like I've earned the right to have our name out there on track wrestling.

[ramjet]

I do not think wrestling schools hurt wrestling in the manner that we are polarizing kids towards extremes.

My issue is remembering who you wrestle for. I'll be honest, if one of my kids goes to a tournament, and they sign up as wrestling for AWA or Ringers, and not Whitefish Bay, it bothers me. I have no delusions that I know more then Ben or Max, or Schmitz or D'Alie, but for four months out of the year I put their happiness before my own, and my kids. I do it for dang near free. I feel like I've earned the right to have our name out there on track wrestling.

Well I guess that would bother me too but not for the same reason. You do dang near for free because you like it ........right? Of course you do. If you are talking off season I do not see the issue. In Greco we trained at two spots used both names neither coach cared as far as we knew. Both coaches from two different clubs in the same corner helping the kid out that was the important thing. By the way during the school year it is imperative they represent the school I fully agree. They wear the school singlets and represent and everyone knows they wrestle for your school. Small potatoes Ghetto the Track name is small potatoes.

[Ghetto]

It's not the name.

It's the I belong to something better than you because I am a part of that wrestling school. Never, in my opinion, should a kid get on the medal stand with a wrestling school shirt on rather than his warmups. It symbolizes that they are not a part of their high school team, but rather this club. They just have to have a high school to wrestle for during the winter.

I realize that its ego to some extent. Heck, maybe all of it.

What I don't want is a fractured program for any reason. That includes some kids feeling like they aren't wrestling for the school they attend classes at.

Again, I think the wrestling schools are great for wrestling. Don't get that twisted. I encourage my kids to go to those schools and get higher level skill training than my four years of HS wrestling will allow. Plus I ain't all that smart. 

[padre]

Totally agree.  My kids have gone to World Gold and some Askren camps and loved both.  They also like wearing the clothing lines and I think it is a lot about the "edge" they believe they have when others see them wearing it.  It is more about the partners than the actual training to me and I tell the kids I have helped bring into the wrestling world to take every advantage they can.  Some have and some haven't depending on the beliefs of those parents.

However, when it comes to who they go under there has never been a choice.  Same goes for the club kids that I have brought up over the years.  I had one that went under an "elite" club one time(unless they were on the dual teams of course) and I expressed my dislike for that.  It hasn't happened since....school pride is number 1 to me and you should show it 12 months a year.

No insult to those that run the clubs but I think many times it puts a wedge between coaches and those clubs because of going under that particular name.  Maybe some don't care....I do.

[Hand Control]

I would say that high school teams participation is fully contingent on 2 things.

1) Coaches ability to relate to the kids
2) Coaches willingness to put effort forth in recruiting.

A great example of this I think is Brookfield Central HS.  They have never been a wrestling power, do not have a strong kids program, but yet because they have a young energetic coach are getting big numbers.  I believe they are around 50 kids this year, while they are not top 10 in the state or anything they have been making great progress and are a solid team.

As far as kids enjoyment levels I think their expectations need to be equivalent to the effort they put out.

For example if a kid wrestles 3 months a year and expects to be a state champ, that will not work out so well for him.  At our academy we have kids who wrestle year round and have high expectation and are very satisfied.  We also have kids who just come in for a month or two, now while their expectation levels are not as high they are still satisfied by what they get out of the sport.

Love to hear feedback.
Report to moderator     Logged
Ben Askren
Askren Bros Wrestling
Assistant Coach at AWA
askrenbros@gmail.com
www.askrenbros.com

I would like to say "Well Said" and that the wrestlers themselves can go a long way recruiting as well.

[ramjet]

In the off season in Greco and Freestyle there is nothing wrong with listing the club they train with.

After all you want credit for the off season then run a Greco program at your school.

During school wrestling I absolutely agree support your team and school.

[ramjet]

It's not the name.

It's the I belong to something better than you because I am a part of that wrestling school. Never, in my opinion, should a kid get on the medal stand with a wrestling school shirt on rather than his warmups. It symbolizes that they are not a part of their high school team, but rather this club. They just have to have a high school to wrestle for

That goes more towards the individuals attitude than the wrestling schools. Right?

So the plus side is that young man/woman is putting in the extra time to get better the coach should teach that person to use that as a leadership incentive and example. Because the other end of the example is not good for the team either.

[2pointTakedown]

I think wresting schools are great for the sport and it does improve the overall level of competition if its in your family budget.

The only issue I see is cost for many people. When you only have $300 left in the checkbook and you have to feed the family and put tires on the 85 Buick not to mention gas in it, what is is more important? Wrestling schools are not for every family and there are some that just cant afford it but truly love the sport and enjoy the sport.

I know a family that has to budget per kid and they have 3 kids in sports, so how much "extra" money goes towards softball, gymnastics and wrestling for their family. They talked about getting a second job to pay for the extra clubs their kids had to belong to in order to compete.

I do think wrestling schools have made the overall level competition better and I encourage kids to spend the extra time in the off season to go to them and improve. I also cheer for the kid that gets 3rd knowing his mom and dad would like to send him to a club but cant afford it, its not his fault and he is just doing the best him and his family can do.

Maybe someday the federal government will come up with a program like they did for cell phones to assist families for wrestling schools, just kidding of coarse!

[ramjet]

I think wresting schools are great for the sport and it does improve the overall level of competition if its in your family budget.

The only issue I see is cost for many people. When you only have $300 left in the checkbook and you have to feed the family and put tires on the 85 Buick not to mention gas in it, what is is more important? Wrestling schools are not for every family and there are some that just cant afford it but truly love the sport and enjoy the sport.

I know a family that has to budget per kid and they have 3 kids in sports, so how much "extra" money goes towards softball, gymnastics and wrestling for their family. They talked about getting a second job to pay for the extra clubs their kids had to belong to in order to compete.

I do think wrestling schools have made the overall level competition better and I encourage kids to spend the extra time in the off season to go to them and improve. I also cheer for the kid that gets 3rd knowing his mom and dad would like to send him to a club but cant afford it, its not his fault and he is just doing the best him and his family can do.

Maybe someday the federal government will come up with a program like they did for cell phones to assist families for wrestling schools, just kidding of coarse!

I disagree with cost analysis.

When my son made decision to get better the decision was made that off season work would do the trick. Now off season programs like Northern Exposure and Aviators and Full Tilt as examples give tremendous experience and work for very little money. Like $35.00 for months worth of three night a week practices. The rooms are filled with like minded hard working kids with atmospheres that are not near as intense but certainly atmosphere where you can improve if you want to. The coaching level is outstanding and the team atmosphere is great. Car pooling can reduce cost time commitments. Coaches if they want can use the knowledge gained by these kids in their rooms to make them better. The kids get better because of repetition and good off season work. 

I have seen Dennis Hall work with financially strapped folks and certainly seen that with some of the other "schools" .

So I do not agree you have to have a bunch of money for these opportunities.

[aarons23]

Please show me where your going to an elite school for months for $35.

[ramjet]

Please show me where your going to an elite school for months for $35.

Read the above your answer is there.

In addition to the above there are WWF regional training Centers for Greco and FS.

[aarons23]

Please show me where your going to an elite school for months for $35.

Read the above your answer is there.

That's awesome if they do it for that price but that's far and few between.  I think the going rate around here is at least $200.

[2pointTakedown]

Please show me where your going to an elite school for months for $35.

Read the above your answer is there.

In addition to the above there are WWF regional training Centers for Greco and FS.

The cost is more like $600-700 for 3months or $35 a visit.

I think the WWF schools are good..but I wish they were available farther up north. Otherwise a three hour car ride and two tanks of gas does not make it a good bang for the buck for families living in the outskirts.

Where are most of the schools located in the state?  Seams to me (and it just might be a population thing) that most are in Madison, SE Wisconsin and between Milwaukee and greenbay.

I do appreciate AWA having pre season programs in northern Wisconsin. Travel cost is something families have to consider.

Don't get me wrong.. I think schools are very important. But I get upset when I see someone comment about a kid saying "that kid would be a state champ if he applied himself"  and knowing that their family does not have much income it's really not fair to make that statement about that kid.