Are wrestling schools hurting teams?

[missinghome]

Just a question I have, not bashing wrestling schools I think they have mad individual wrestlers way better. But does anyone else see the gap is really growing between great wrestlers and bad wrestlers. Not many in between wrestlers left. Let me ask you this... how many of your high school state champions or even most place winners don't wrestle for a wrestling school. I think it is pretty hard to convince a freshman who has never wrestled to come out anymore because most freshman wrestlers have been wrestling 50 matches a year since kindergarten.

[ramjet]

Whats your point?


With hard work comes reward.


Should the sport of wrestling be fashioned after those who do not want to work really hard at it?

I will go further to say my son really started wrestling in 8th grade few matches in 6th then was injured in 7th in football did not wrestle. But he put allot of hard work and effort in from 8th grade on allot off season commitment and work it paid off those who know who he is saw him grow every year and the reward was trip to State and on the podium several times at Greco State and FS. So the idea that a kid cannot compete unless they wrestle from Kindergarden on is not true, you get out of wrestling what you put into it. Thats requires like anything in life dedication-hard work-commiment-sacrifice and competition and emotional maturity. Sure workouts with top notch Coaches like Hall, Arneson, Crass to name a few certainly helps, but how you learn and work while with these teachers has a great impact on what you take away from it.

So to answer your question NO.

[DocWrestling]

As I said before, the sport is trending towards better wrestlers with more coaching and year round training but ultimately leading to fewer wrestlers.

Going to be fewer and fewer coaches taking on freshman beginners and them becoming state qualifiers or conference champs.

It is similar to what club sports are doing with other HS sports.  In Milwaukee area, the best athletes in some sports do not play High school sports anymore.  You can't fault those individuals for trying to become the best they can but it hurts the sport overall (mainly soccer and volleyball from what I have heard).  Same happens across the state in hockey.  As long as they are having fun, can't fault anyone

Wrestlers that train year round are going to have an edge on the old-school 3 sport athlete

[ramjet]

As I said before, the sport is trending towards better wrestlers with more coaching and year round training but ultimately leading to fewer wrestlers.

Going to be fewer and fewer coaches taking on freshman beginners and them becoming state qualifiers or conference champs.

It is similar to what club sports are doing with other HS sports.  In Milwaukee area, the best athletes in some sports do not play High school sports anymore.  You can't fault those individuals for trying to become the best they can but it hurts the sport overall (mainly soccer and volleyball from what I have heard).  Same happens across the state in hockey.  As long as they are having fun, can't fault anyone

Wrestlers that train year round are going to have an edge on the old-school 3 sport athlete

You know Doc life is full of choices.

I cannot fathom that it is ruining the sport if young man or women wants to make the same commitment then they will make it.

One would have to ask what is the Club Sport offering that the school isn't?

The level of competition is up? Is it?

School enrollment numbers are down....yes they are what impact does that have?

Maybe parents are putting more into other offerings and sports maybe its tough to commit to more than one so the choice is made. I can see some young adults choosing other sports rather than wrestling it is one tough sport to participate in and takes allot of work and commitment. Maybe as a society we are not as "tough"? (as we used to be) and its "easier" to play soccer or volleyball? Maybe its easier to play nothing to exercise the thumbs and fingers on video game?

I think there are many many many reasons the sport seems down but I have not seen numbers to see if they parallel the enrollment numbers either. Or if they are trending.

[HMsDad]

As far as experience level goes I don't think it is hurting teams. My son goes to Crass and there are nights where it ranges from 1st year kids to kids that have been doing it for since pre k and are in high school now.

It is a way for parents to get there kids more mat time for newer kids. And for older kids to get a bit more technical instruction. And the numbers of kids is not as high as say a youth or middle school practice.

[benaskren]

I would say that high school teams participation is fully contingent on 2 things.

1) Coaches ability to relate to the kids
2) Coaches willingness to put effort forth in recruiting.

A great example of this I think is Brookfield Central HS.  They have never been a wrestling power, do not have a strong kids program, but yet because they have a young energetic coach are getting big numbers.  I believe they are around 50 kids this year, while they are not top 10 in the state or anything they have been making great progress and are a solid team.

As far as kids enjoyment levels I think their expectations need to be equivalent to the effort they put out.

For example if a kid wrestles 3 months a year and expects to be a state champ, that will not work out so well for him.  At our academy we have kids who wrestle year round and have high expectation and are very satisfied.  We also have kids who just come in for a month or two, now while their expectation levels are not as high they are still satisfied by what they get out of the sport.

Love to hear feedback.

[Alumni]

I guess my son was the exception. We didn't start him wrestling until 3rd grade and then only wrestled at the local wrestling club tournament for several years.
All thru Jr high and high school he did not train at a club facility or even go to many camps.
He wrestled from Mid November to the state tournament if he qualified. No Free style or Greco.
He spent the off season in other sports or hunting and fishing.
He did qualify for state a couple times and was a state champ as a senior.

I guess I didn't push or encourage him to go to the area club facility more to prove that there is nothing at a club facility that you can't get in your own wrestling room.
No offense to the clubs, I think they are a great resource but not mandatory to become a champ.

[bigoil]

Illinois is much like Doc explained for VBall and soccer, recruiters are at AAU/club tournaments more than HS games.

[littleguy301]

Going back to the orginal post and something in that post rung pretty true.

I believe there is becoming no middle ground with the wrestlers. You have the elite and you have the poor. The group in the middle and we will call them the multi-sport athletes. I believe that group is shrinking and I am sad about it.

Just a mind set, you have a good football player and he is also an average wrestler. I think you might lose that kid from wrestling to train more year around for football iec,,,,weightlifting and football camps.

Why may you ask you lose that kid from wrestling. While he might have had some success on the wrestling mat his heart is into football and after a year or 2 of being a .500 wrestler might bruise the ego and he wants to throw himself into football full time.

I also think the day of having a kid walk out onto the mat his/her freshmond year and being a state guy is going to be few and far between. Though I say this with no insult, I do believe that a kid that is bigger in weight might have more of an advantage than a lighter or middle weight guy. I think the upper weights have a bigger learning curve in high school than the light weights or even middle weights. though when it is all said and done with I believe all weights in high school are tough and those on the stand in Feb are very good no matter what weight they are at.

When I say that I also mean no insult because there is always a certain case for that. You hear of a few every year but I say just a few.

I also believe that getting kids out in middle school is a good thing. You take a good middle school athlete and with in due time they they catch up to kids that have been wrestling for years. That is if they put in 100%, work hard and learn.

I have no problem with clubs. If the kids need the extra training I am all for it. New partners, new coaches will not hurt anything.

I like Bens 2 things that coaches need to do.

I would also like to add, I know wrestling is a tough sport but in some of the madness I think you also need to bring out some of the fun side and let the kids be kids at times with in reason.

[ramjet]

So to the original question; well it may not be the existence of wrestling schools or,clubs as I read the responses it may in fact be deeper rooted causes and reasons more to do with societal changes than any one thing.

[littleguy301]

So to the original question; well it may not be the existence of wrestling schools or,clubs as I read the responses it may in fact be deeper rooted causes and reasons more to do with societal changes than any one thing.

I agree with this statement.

[imnofish]

I think the original question is based upon an observed polarization among the skill levels of athletic participants.  As others have stated, specialization in a particular sport tends to minimize participation in others.  The decreased number of participants results in a lack of depth in the overall competition, evidenced by the high numbers of forfeits and pins.  How much better would our elite athletes be, if the average/above average competitor was more prevalent on today's teams?  How much better would our least competitive wrestlers be?  In some schools, I also see other sports, such as basketball and football suffering from a lack of depth/consistent skill performance, as rosters have dwindled.  The bottom line is that the athletic experience has lost its balance.  Where has it gone?  How can we restore it?  Must the pursuit of excellence be abandoned, in order to regain it?

[firemanscarry]

I was glad to see someone as accomplished and dedicated as Ben recognizing that there are different levels of expectations and different ways to get enjoyment out of wrestling.  While every kid dreams of winning a State title in any sport in which they participate, it is very possible to enjoy the sport of wrestling immensely without ever qualifying for State or winning the title.  I sure did.

Winning a State title was a dream for me, but not really a goal.  I hope that makes sense.  I didn't wrestle until sophomore year of high school, and I never went to camps.  I attended a few clinics, but we didn't make the time or the financial investments necessary to make State an attainable goal.  I wrestled because it was fun, and because my presence there helped my team win a conference and a regional title.  My realistic goal was to finish my high school career with a winning overall record.  I made it happen by working my tail off from the day after football was done until I got beat out of the tournament series.  The Monday after that I was either tossing a baseball or at a rehearsal for the school's spring musical.  I was never an "all my eggs in one basket" kind of kid.

I don't know how it is in the Division 1 schools, but up here in the Northwoods a kid can still have a rewarding career without schools or camps, provided they wrestle their heart out in practice every night.  Ramjet's son started late but decided he was really going to dedicate himself to wrestling and made it to State in WIAA and had even greater success in Greco.  His family made some serious time and financial commitments to help him achieve the things he did.  State was his goal, and he did what it took to achieve it.  He deserves every honor he ever received and those he will receive in the future.  But he wasn't the only kid on his team who found wrestling rewarding and fun.

If a kid can only be happy with a trip to State, then his family will need to realize what it takes to get it done in today's wrestling world and then do it.  But I think a coach can run a good program where some of the kids have other goals and learn how to achieve them with primarily hard in-season work.  I don't think kids who go above and beyond that are ruining anything for anybody, though.

[Ghetto]

I would say that high school teams participation is fully contingent on 2 things.

1) Coaches ability to relate to the kids
2) Coaches willingness to put effort forth in recruiting.

I disagree on the adjective. FULLY.

I agree that both things are essential. Some kids wrestle for the coach before themselves. They wrestle because their program makes them feel like a part of something. To those kids, the coach is more important than the sport and winning.

Not all kids are like that.

Other factors: Tradition, popularity of current wrestlers, winning as a team, winning as an individual, community commitment, HS administration, kids wrestling club, other offerings at the school, and a million other things come into it.

I think Demos is doing a good job out at BC. I commend him on the current numbers he has. I hope it lasts for him. I believe, however, that his program, like all programs, will ebb and flow. Will he be able to sustain those numbers? We will see.

[ramjet]

That's why I said you get out what you put in......it's pretty simple.

Not much financial commitment by the way just gas and time that was well spent with my son. An investment every parent should make.