Crossbows

[ramjet]

But anyhow crossbows are completely great option. The new Mission (Mathews) are some nice crossbows and even though I went with si,plicity and got the Excaliber Matrix 380 I am going to give that to my son and get a Mission little more complicated but made in by Wisconsin Company and I support the home grown companies in our State. Plus it is small lite and good performance. I took a nice 140 lb doe two weeks ago with my !atrix and a Rage CB 125 grain expandable human and quick tool for conservation. She dressed out at 140 lbs and went to family who have 6 kids to feed.

Yup CB just another tool and way to get out and hunt I was really impressed with the performance and lethality of the setup. Lots of fun.

[Handles II]

Unbelievable. 
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting .  Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.

You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.

Actually he is correct. In areas where baiting is allowed deer have learned to stay bedded until dark and then just head to the buffet. They need to travel more in the daylight to get their daily allowance without bait piles. If I'm not mistaken, baiting is not allowed where you live correct?

Just as they have learned to go to the cornfields in the evenings, just as they go to the natural grassy clearings in the woods in the evenings. And if someone is baiting, they can set their feeders to feed during daylight hours.
The reality is that deer are and always will be more actively moving and feeding during twilight hours. People who say they turn nocturnal because of feeding obviously don't know much about deer behavior.

Is it legal to feed and bait where you live and hunt?

Some of the places yes. However I certainly don't need to live in a place that allows baiting to know that deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours and had been doing so long before baiting was a typical practice or to know that the deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours where baiting is not legal.
I drove past a field last night at 10:00 last night (non baiting area) and saw about a dozen deer out feeding in it. Hmm, must be that someone had a feeding station right there. Otherwise those darn deer would be sleeping at night and feeding during the day just like the hunters.

[bigG]

But anyhow crossbows are completely great option. The new Mission (Mathews) are some nice crossbows and even though I went with si,plicity and got the Excaliber Matrix 380 I am going to give that to my son and get a Mission little more complicated but made in by Wisconsin Company and I support the home grown companies in our State. Plus it is small lite and good performance. I took a nice 140 lb doe two weeks ago with my !atrix and a Rage CB 125 grain expandable human and quick tool for conservation. She dressed out at 140 lbs and went to family who have 6 kids to feed.

Yup CB just another tool and way to get out and hunt I was really impressed with the performance and lethality of the setup. Lots of fun.

Mathews is a well-run company. Have many, many friends who work there.

[Houndhead]

Unbelievable. 
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting .  Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.

You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.

Actually he is correct. In areas where baiting is allowed deer have learned to stay bedded until dark and then just head to the buffet. They need to travel more in the daylight to get their daily allowance without bait piles. If I'm not mistaken, baiting is not allowed where you live correct?

Just as they have learned to go to the cornfields in the evenings, just as they go to the natural grassy clearings in the woods in the evenings. And if someone is baiting, they can set their feeders to feed during daylight hours.
The reality is that deer are and always will be more actively moving and feeding during twilight hours. People who say they turn nocturnal because of feeding obviously don't know much about deer behavior.

Is it legal to feed and bait where you live and hunt?

Some of the places yes. However I certainly don't need to live in a place that allows baiting to know that deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours and had been doing so long before baiting was a typical practice or to know that the deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours where baiting is not legal.
I drove past a field last night at 10:00 last night (non baiting area) and saw about a dozen deer out feeding in it. Hmm, must be that someone had a feeding station right there. Otherwise those darn deer would be sleeping at night and feeding during the day just like the hunters.

So you have become a self-appointed expert on the behavior of deer that are baited by watching deer feed in a field? I'm sure that outweighs the experiences of people that live and hunt where there is baiting. Are you a polar bear expert also?

[ramjet]

But anyhow crossbows are completely great option. The new Mission (Mathews) are some nice crossbows and even though I went with si,plicity and got the Excaliber Matrix 380 I am going to give that to my son and get a Mission little more complicated but made in by Wisconsin Company and I support the home grown companies in our State. Plus it is small lite and good performance. I took a nice 140 lb doe two weeks ago with my !atrix and a Rage CB 125 grain expandable human and quick tool for conservation. She dressed out at 140 lbs and went to family who have 6 kids to feed.

Yup CB just another tool and way to get out and hunt I was really impressed with the performance and lethality of the setup. Lots of fun.

Mathews is a well-run company. Have many, many friends who work there.

Definitely they stay aggressive in the market and have offerings for most folks needs in archery.

The crossbows they make are really impressive and fun but they listened to the people using them, they made them really compact and used the technology they developed in the compound market and put it use in the crossbow market.

I really like the simplicity of my Excaliber but my son wants to try the crossbow so I will pass my Matrix along to him and I am dealing on the Mission crossbow the one I shot was really impressive. Hopefully I can get my grandson out this fall with my crossbow and let him harvest his first deer that would be real treat.

We are doing a bunny hunt with the recurves and longbows the end of the month that will be allot of fun as well. Love the diversity this State offers in hunting opportunities.

[Handles II]

Unbelievable. 
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting .  Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.

You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.

Actually he is correct. In areas where baiting is allowed deer have learned to stay bedded until dark and then just head to the buffet. They need to travel more in the daylight to get their daily allowance without bait piles. If I'm not mistaken, baiting is not allowed where you live correct?

Just as they have learned to go to the cornfields in the evenings, just as they go to the natural grassy clearings in the woods in the evenings. And if someone is baiting, they can set their feeders to feed during daylight hours.
The reality is that deer are and always will be more actively moving and feeding during twilight hours. People who say they turn nocturnal because of feeding obviously don't know much about deer behavior.

Is it legal to feed and bait where you live and hunt?

Some of the places yes. However I certainly don't need to live in a place that allows baiting to know that deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours and had been doing so long before baiting was a typical practice or to know that the deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours where baiting is not legal.
I drove past a field last night at 10:00 last night (non baiting area) and saw about a dozen deer out feeding in it. Hmm, must be that someone had a feeding station right there. Otherwise those darn deer would be sleeping at night and feeding during the day just like the hunters.

So you have become a self-appointed expert on the behavior of deer that are baited by watching deer feed in a field? I'm sure that outweighs the experiences of people that live and hunt where there is baiting. Are you a polar bear expert also?

The original claim was that baiting turns deer nocturnal (as opposed to diurnal) and that is the reason  to cross roads at night for food.  While deer may cross roads at night and may go to bait stations at night, there is not a causation effect in place.  Otherwise deer would not cross roads and would not feed at night in non-baiting parts of the state or country which they do all the time and have been doing long before baiting or feeders were ever in the picture.

[Houndhead]

Unbelievable.  
Deer are more active in their feeding patterns nocturnally no matter where they are, what time of the year it is, or if it's a feeder or a field, and they will always continue to feed, though more sparingly and more often on browse in the woods during the day when they aren't resting .  Grandma's feeder doesn't make them nocturnal.

You really come up with some dandy's ramjet.

Actually he is correct. In areas where baiting is allowed deer have learned to stay bedded until dark and then just head to the buffet. They need to travel more in the daylight to get their daily allowance without bait piles. If I'm not mistaken, baiting is not allowed where you live correct?

Just as they have learned to go to the cornfields in the evenings, just as they go to the natural grassy clearings in the woods in the evenings. And if someone is baiting, they can set their feeders to feed during daylight hours.
The reality is that deer are and always will be more actively moving and feeding during twilight hours. People who say they turn nocturnal because of feeding obviously don't know much about deer behavior.

Is it legal to feed and bait where you live and hunt?

Some of the places yes. However I certainly don't need to live in a place that allows baiting to know that deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours and had been doing so long before baiting was a typical practice or to know that the deer are more actively feeding during twilight hours where baiting is not legal.
I drove past a field last night at 10:00 last night (non baiting area) and saw about a dozen deer out feeding in it. Hmm, must be that someone had a feeding station right there. Otherwise those darn deer would be sleeping at night and feeding during the day just like the hunters.

So you have become a self-appointed expert on the behavior of deer that are baited by watching deer feed in a field? I'm sure that outweighs the experiences of people that live and hunt where there is baiting. Are you a polar bear expert also?

The original claim was that baiting turns deer nocturnal (as opposed to diurnal) and that is the reason  to cross roads at night for food.  While deer may cross roads at night and may go to bait stations at night, there is not a causation effect in place.  Otherwise deer would not cross roads and would not feed at night in non-baiting parts of the state or country which they do all the time and have been doing long before baiting or feeders were ever in the picture.

I don't think anyone was saying that only deer that are baited cross roads at night. But I agree with you, all deer cross roads at night. I can't believe I never knew that until you pointed it out. Your knowledge of deer is amazing. Thanks.

[Handles II]

Since you already knew that, why did you have to be a choad about it and disagree?  What I said was true, you admitted it.

The original post from ramjet is below. Note that it says feeding turns deer nocturnal. That is what I argued and was correct on, yet you argued that I was wrong.

He is correct that it can increase deer road crossings in some places, but so can any type of food, water, cover and land features. So it is not exclusive to feeding.

Yup thats one issue the other is the deer that cross the roads to get to grandmas feeder and cause automobile accidents and allot damage to vehicles. They would not be crossing as much at some places if they were not going to corn feeders. Plus from a hunting stand point the deer turn nocturnal.

[Houndhead]

Since you already knew that, why did you have to be a choad about it and disagree?  What I said was true, you admitted it.

The original post from ramjet is below. Note that it says feeding turns deer nocturnal. That is what I argued and was correct on, yet you argued that I was wrong.

He is correct that it can increase deer road crossings in some places, but so can any type of food, water, cover and land features. So it is not exclusive to feeding.

Yup thats one issue the other is the deer that cross the roads to get to grandmas feeder and cause automobile accidents and allot damage to vehicles. They would not be crossing as much at some places if they were not going to corn feeders. Plus from a hunting stand point the deer turn nocturnal.

Baiting deer does make them nocturnal. I don't see where he said it was exclusive to feeding. Rams post is 100% correct. You felt a need to argue because you have a hard time admitting Ram is right about anything. He's right. You're wrong. Get over it. You are still correct about all deer crossing roads, so you have that.

[Handles II]

What about feeders that deer come to during the day? I know there are many a bar in the north that have deer at the feeder on/off all day and thousands of people have witnessed this. I guess that would be a complete contradiction to your and ramjet's conclusion.

As you said two posts ago. I am right. Thank you for admitting it.

[Houndhead]

What about feeders that deer come to during the day? I know there are many a bar in the north that have deer at the feeder on/off all day and thousands of people have witnessed this. I guess that would be a complete contradiction to your and ramjet's conclusion.

As you said two posts ago. I am right. Thank you for admitting it.

I don't think anybody but you thought Ram's post meant feeding makes deer exclusively nocturnal. But I guess you thought it was something you could jump Ram for being wrong about.

Yes, you were right, I admit it. All deer cross roads.

[ramjet]

Umm lets ge this down the feeding of deer puts them into pattern because they are nocturnal feeders and because frankly they have to get up and browse every 3-4 hours because of the digestive system they have this is what bait does..........the deer who would normally browse all over the forest and move more frequently if they had to depend on natural browse. But, they congregate in areas that have bait and because it is easy for them and because the cover of darkness gives them security they usually pattern to that security dan they would not naturally do that if they had to eat natural forage. This also makes them suspetable to predators too although they would be if the yarded in cedar swamps too.

Furthermore baiting of deer is for one of two reasons: people want to watch them or people want to kill them.

The later is what is destroying the hunting in Wisconsin we have entire generation of lazy (spoiled) hunters who would rather spend $1000.00 on corn (pumpkins, carrots, sugar beets) than go out and have to scout and find deer or pattern them and really "hunt" the deer as they did many years ago when baiting was not accepted.

The first of the reasons above has a direct correlation to vehicle accidents most of them at night because the deer are congregated and moving to concentrated food source.  

Feeding and baiting should be banned completely if for no other reason CWD.

But more so it changes the feeding habits of the animals and takes them from natural feeding habits to predictable and mostly nocturnal feeding habits.  That is the facts JACK.

[Handles II]

So the people who want to watch deer at their feeder have to do it in the dark because they become nocturnal?
What about all those feeders hit during the day and the thousands of people who have witnessed it?

What you are correct on is that deer will feed on and off throughout the day and night. They will do this regardless of feeders or fields. If the feed they want is close to their bedding area and water, they won't have to travel as far to get what they need so they can remain bedded longer if they like. Is that a pattern? Yes, just as all deer form certain patterns certain times of the year.

To say that baiting turns deer nocturnal is a false statement and if it was true it would mean that it is the exact opposite of what a lazy hunter should do because they would not be able to shoot a deer over bait in the daytime. Obviously and by your own statement about lazy hunters, that isn't true and deer come to bait during the daylight hours. Watch any hunting show that uses bait, or go to some of the dozens of live feeder cams that are on the web and you will see that to be true. Deer will eat day and/or night.

And for your other point. I also dislike the idea of baiting deer, but am not sure where the line should be drawn. What is a small food plot if not baiting? What is hunting over a water hole (which is much more specific and needed by a deer than on singlular type of food) I really don't know and there are some good arguments both ways.

[Houndhead]

So the people who want to watch deer at their feeder have to do it in the dark because they become nocturnal?
What about all those feeders hit during the day and the thousands of people who have witnessed it?

What you are correct on is that deer will feed on and off throughout the day and night. They will do this regardless of feeders or fields. If the feed they want is close to their bedding area and water, they won't have to travel as far to get what they need so they can remain bedded longer if they like. Is that a pattern? Yes, just as all deer form certain patterns certain times of the year.

To say that baiting turns deer nocturnal is a false statement and if it was true it would mean that it is the exact opposite of what a lazy hunter should do because they would not be able to shoot a deer over bait in the daytime. Obviously and by your own statement about lazy hunters, that isn't true and deer come to bait during the daylight hours. Watch any hunting show that uses bait, or go to some of the dozens of live feeder cams that are on the web and you will see that to be true. Deer will eat day and/or night.

And for your other point. I also dislike the idea of baiting deer, but am not sure where the line should be drawn. What is a small food plot if not baiting? What is hunting over a water hole (which is much more specific and needed by a deer than on singlular type of food) I really don't know and there are some good arguments both ways.

Just as I thought, your expertise comes from watching TV and web cams. Nobody said deer become exclusively nocturnal. They will certainly come to feeders in the daylight. More so in areas the feel safe, like backyards. To say that feeding them doesn't change their behavior is just ignorant and sounds like it is from an armchair expert.

[ramjet]

So the people who want to watch deer at their feeder have to do it in the dark because they become nocturnal?
What about all those feeders hit during the day and the thousands of people who have witnessed it?

What you are correct on is that deer will feed on and off throughout the day and night. They will do this regardless of feeders or fields. If the feed they want is close to their bedding area and water, they won't have to travel as far to get what they need so they can remain bedded longer if they like. Is that a pattern? Yes, just as all deer form certain patterns certain times of the year.

To say that baiting turns deer nocturnal is a false statement and if it was true it would mean that it is the exact opposite of what a lazy hunter should do because they would not be able to shoot a deer over bait in the daytime. Obviously and by your own statement about lazy hunters, that isn't true and deer come to bait during the daylight hours. Watch any hunting show that uses bait, or go to some of the dozens of live feeder cams that are on the web and you will see that to be true. Deer will eat day and/or night.

And for your other point. I also dislike the idea of baiting deer, but am not sure where the line should be drawn. What is a small food plot if not baiting? What is hunting over a water hole (which is much more specific and needed by a deer than on singlular type of food) I really don't know and there are some good arguments both ways.

Yup food plots brings up an interesting point and certainly adds some complexity to the equation.

But someone dumping 500 lbs of corn to attract bambi so they blast them is not hunting.

As far those who "feed" the deer to watch them I think if they do that they should have to carry liability insurance and cover any damage from car deer collisions in that area.