FYI

[Houndhead]

I found this interesting tidbit of information concerning pitchers traded in the last few years.

Elite starters make big news when they go on the trade market, but they rarely bring big returns. Since late 2007, Johan Santana, CC Sabathia, Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee (three times), Dan Haren (twice), Jake Peavy, Roy Oswalt and R.A. Dickey have been traded for a total of 37 prospects, Joe Saunders and J.A. Happ. Only one of those prospects, Colorado outfielder Carlos Gonzalez, has emerged as an All-Star. Brett Anderson, Michael Brantley and Carlos Gomez are good, productive players, and time will tell what becomes of Tyler Skaggs, Patrick Corbin, Anthony Gose, Travis D'Arnaud and Noah Syndergaard, to name a few.

[Ghetto]

Prospecting in baseball is tougher than in any other professional sport, IMO.

Not all FA big signings work out either, so it is a crap shoot either way. Wonder how the Angels feel about the big money they gave Pujols.

[Houndhead]

Prospecting in baseball is tougher than in any other professional sport, IMO.

Not all FA big signings work out either, so it is a crap shoot either way. Wonder how the Angels feel about the big money they gave Pujols.

They were talking about the Pujols contract on the MLB network this morning. That may turn out to be worse than the A-rod deal.

[Scourge]

I found this interesting tidbit of information concerning pitchers traded in the last few years.

Elite starters make big news when they go on the trade market, but they rarely bring big returns. Since late 2007, Johan Santana, CC Sabathia, Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee (three times), Dan Haren (twice), Jake Peavy, Roy Oswalt and R.A. Dickey have been traded for a total of 37 prospects, Joe Saunders and J.A. Happ. Only one of those prospects, Colorado outfielder Carlos Gonzalez, has emerged as an All-Star. Brett Anderson, Michael Brantley and Carlos Gomez are good, productive players, and time will tell what becomes of Tyler Skaggs, Patrick Corbin, Anthony Gose, Travis D'Arnaud and Noah Syndergaard, to name a few.

That's pretty mis-leading because a lot of those players were traded fairly recently and the players are still in the minor leagues.  Dickey was just traded.  D'Arnaud is almost a sure fire all-star...not to mention, those are just "big name," pitchers.


Plus, they don't include pitchers who were traded for players who have had a great deal of success.  Zach Greinke, traded twice.  Segura looks like a stud.  Hellweg looks like he could be a dominant big league pitcher. 

Alcides Escobar is on the brink of becoming a star, Jake Odorizzi is starting for the most pitching rich team in the game and Cain is doing alright. 

To me that's REALLY nit-picking and they even leave out important information.  IN the A's trade with the D-backs, Valverde, the Tigers closer who had 48 saves was involved, Chad Qualls was involved, two very good relief pitchers, and so was Brett Anderson, a EXTREMELY talented young pitcher who just simply got hurt, but was dominant when healthy.  Many of those pitchers have gotten hurt.

So with respect to the site you got that from, I don't think it's telling you the whole story....or really...all that much of it. It's leaving out the Max Scherzer trades, the Gio Gonzalez trades that brought back one of the Oakland rookies last year that helped them win the division Tommy Millone, as well as two highly talented pitchers in the minors.

James Shields was traded for Wil Myers, a freakishly good power hitter who'd be playing for Tampa, but they have to wait 6 weeks so they can get another year of arbitration and team control.  He's the top offensive prospect in the minors. 


I don't know the tone of the article, but it seems to me as though it is trying to make the argument that prospects are "no sure thing," and it's picking and choosing which pitchers to include into that conversation. 


Oh, and they don't mention the Trevor Cahill trade that brought back Jarrod Parker to the Athletics, another young star for them. 

[Scourge]

Prospecting in baseball is tougher than in any other professional sport, IMO.

Not all FA big signings work out either, so it is a crap shoot either way. Wonder how the Angels feel about the big money they gave Pujols.

Probably not quite as bad as you would think.  After his horrible 1st month last year, Pujols ended up hitting .308/.394 and had a .946 OPS, and this year he looks like he's off to great start. 

But any team that signs a guy that age for 10 years KNOWS that they're going to be paying for a couple years at the end where he's a shell of his former self. 
And I agree, it's more difficult to analyze prospects in baseball than any other sport because if you're a pitcher, you're almost certain to have in a best case scenario ONE major injury that will take you out for a year+. 

Trading for prospects in the minors is a little different IMO though than the draft.  The draft is 50/50 at best.  At least with minor leaguers, you can look at a history of work and match it up against their age, level and have enough information. 

[Houndhead]

Here is the link to the article.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9165333/assessing-kansas-city-haul-zack-greinke

[Scourge]

Here is the link to the article.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9165333/assessing-kansas-city-haul-zack-greinke

I like this quote;

"Doug Melvin knew what he was giving up," Moore said. "They had to do what they had to do. I think it was a great baseball trade. Looking back on it, if I was in Milwaukee's situation, we would have tried to make the same type of deal."

Really?  You just DID make that kind of deal.  They gave up a TON to get James Shields and Wade Davis(who'd easily be our #3 pitcher, maybe our #1 by the end of the year).  They gave up a prospect who had a LOT more value at the time than Alcides Escobar did in Wil Myers(some think Myers is a Ryan Braun type offensive prospect and a much better defensive player, and they gave up Odorizzi who they got for Greinke, a pitching prospect ranked significantly higher than Wily Peralta for the a point of reference). 

They traded for a ace pitcher who they won't be able to sign who has 2 years left on his contract and gave up a ton in return.  The only difference was instead of getting Yuni Betancourt back, they got back a guy who can throw 4 pitches, has a 97 MPH fastball and might end up being a legit top of the rotation pitcher!



Anyway, I just don't think this article tells the whole story.  I like reading Crasnick, but it's simply mis-leading as he picks and chooses who to include and diminishes some of the younger players.


And there is also just an inherent risk in trading for a ace pitcher with that much value.  It's tough to get equal value for superstars, and on top of that, to get the reputation they have, they have to have already thrown a lot of innings and pitches, so they're more susceptible to injury.