Author Topic: Could not have said it better....  (Read 18770 times)

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Offline whatever

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2013, 04:32:48 PM »
My question would be why Bart Chelesvig, Troy and Terry Steiner, Cary Kolat, Sean Bormet, Corey Wallman, Donny Pritzlaff, Jared Frayer, and Ryan Morningstar all no longer coach for the Wisconsin Badgers?......
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 04:39:32 PM by whatever »
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Offline Scourge

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2013, 04:49:07 PM »
Curious for some of you on here......and I know this has been asked before but some refuse to answer...so dad 2 5 and scrouge....what would have to happen for you guys to ever feel there should be a change to the head coach of the badgers?  And I am not trying to stir the pot either....but a serious question.


I can appreciate your sincere question here, dman. Might I suggest that the question should really be asked of and answered by former wrestlers from the program? Are they not the ones for whom the program exists? If the actual student participants in a non-revenue sport have a generally positive (or negative) position as to the "true" value of their experience isn't that really what we would want to know? Their opinion, after leaving the program, would seem to be the most relevant assessment of the value of a program (because it is their experience for which the program exists). It's not for the fans, it's not for the coaches, etc. Non-revenue sports exist for the benefit of the student athlete him/herself.



I can tell you that there are several former UW wrestlers who don't want to voice their complaints regarding Barry publicly because...well...it doesn't look or sound good and if they don't attach their name to it, it has not bearing.  So in this respect, you're only going to get positive responses.

But my whole entire point has always been if you really care about the program, this just isn't the forum to articulate your issues with it.  If you don't believe in, or like Bo Ryan's style, do you want to post consistently on the ONE main basketball board about how terrible the coach really is so that we lose a potential top recruit? 

Obviously with Basketball it's different because the public cares a lot more and it's a revenue sport, but I'm just making my point. 

I've made my feelings known by suggesting potential hires and that's as far as I want to go.  I do think it's probably time to make a change simply for the sake of change, but I don't want to consistently bash the program. 

Plus, as I've said, bashing Barry Davis IS bashing the kids on the team and they also read this. 

But that's just my opinion.  And the reason I didn't respond to dman's post directed to me was because I didn't really take it serious.
Of course people should be ALLOWED. 
This is nothing like the work place where you can go to your boss.  A better comparison would be, "if you have a complaint at work, should you publicly bash the company under a screen name when you know the customers are reading it? 

What is ALLOWED isn't the point, what common sense dictates IMO is the point.

Offline Kevin Black

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2013, 04:53:57 PM »
Bart Chelesvig - career change
Terry Steiner - better opportunity (USA Wrestling)
Troy Steiner - position was eliminated by the administration (Advance, Iowa=alma mater now Oregon St.)
Cary Kolat - not interested in coaching at the time (moved to Pitt to train with Sanshiro Abe)
Sean Bormet - better opportunity (Michigan = alma mater, Overtime, etc.)
Cory Wallman - career change
Donny Pritzlaff - 'different' opportunity (Michigan)
Jared Frayer - better opportunity (Oklahoma = alma mater)
Ryan Morningstar - better opportunity (Iowa = alma mater)
Isaiah 26:8

Offline Scourge

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2013, 05:04:29 PM »
Bart Chelesvig - career change
Terry Steiner - better opportunity (USA Wrestling)
Troy Steiner - position was eliminated by the administration (Advance, Iowa=alma mater now Oregon St.)
Cary Kolat - not interested in coaching at the time (moved to Pitt to train with Sanshiro Abe)
Sean Bormet - better opportunity (Michigan = alma mater, Overtime, etc.)
Cory Wallman - career change
Donny Pritzlaff - 'different' opportunity (Michigan)
Jared Frayer - better opportunity (Oklahoma = alma mater)
Ryan Morningstar - better opportunity (Iowa = alma mater)

How did Morningstar get a "better," opportunity?  Isn't he a strength and conditioning coach?  Does that really equate to a "better," opportunity than being the top assistant?

That's just one question...

Offline dman

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2013, 05:04:35 PM »
Kevin Black = UW Head Wrestling Coach???  Come on Kevin!???  ;)

Serious question....even though I am serious about you making a great head coach for the Badgers....but would you ever consider being the head coach for the Badgers?  Understand if you would rather not answer.  :)

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2013, 05:04:35 PM »

Offline Kevin Black

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2013, 05:17:14 PM »
Morningstar wanted to be at Iowa.  It was "better" for him and it's why he's there.
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Offline npope

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2013, 05:22:50 PM »
How did Morningstar get a "better," opportunity?  Isn't he a strength and conditioning coach?  Does that really equate to a "better," opportunity than being the top assistant?


"Better" is certainly a subjective term, but it my understanding that some programs have a lot more booster money to throw around so...Morningstar may have actually ended up making more money AND being back in the fold at Iowa. The title of the position probabaly has less to do with the realities...I suspect.

But Morningstar also said that he couldn't think of any other opportunity that could have lured him away from the Badgers. Maybe just "nice talk," but we have had a couple of ex-coaches that certainly didn't feel compelled to offer even a token of credit to Davis. So I don't think Morningstar was about Davis as much as it was about Iowa.
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Offline Scourge

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2013, 05:40:58 PM »
How did Morningstar get a "better," opportunity?  Isn't he a strength and conditioning coach?  Does that really equate to a "better," opportunity than being the top assistant?


"Better" is certainly a subjective term, but it my understanding that some programs have a lot more booster money to throw around so...Morningstar may have actually ended up making more money AND being back in the fold at Iowa. The title of the position probabaly has less to do with the realities...I suspect.

But Morningstar also said that he couldn't think of any other opportunity that could have lured him away from the Badgers. Maybe just "nice talk," but we have had a couple of ex-coaches that certainly didn't feel compelled to offer even a token of credit to Davis. So I don't think Morningstar was about Davis as much as it was about Iowa.


That was kinda my point.  With all due respect to Kevin Black, just simply stating, "better opportunity," well, he went from the top guy to what, the 5th or 6th guy on Iowa's staff including both Brands?

I guess that's a bit of a problem if that's so much better of an opportunity, even with him being an Iowa guy.

Pritzlaff actually ended up with a demotion AWAY from his former school.



I just hope Branvold's around for a while.  I really am convinced he's going to be a helluva coach for a while and I think he knows which Wisconsin kids project well at the next level.  And I hope Graff sticks around after next year. 

I don't think you can possibly understate the importance of having guys training for that next level in the room in terms of recruiting and development.  Heck, if Branvold's wrestling 211, I would imagine he wrestles with Medberry which can only help him when it comes to McMullen in the future for example.  Graff sticking around and wrestling with Thielke given Graff's incredible offense on his feet and so on.

Offline Miltown grappler

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2013, 06:45:54 PM »
The reasons for leaving are not as simple as career change for all of the coaches that are listed.  Those that have ever talked to most of them, know the real problem within the program.  It is Barry and he has to go for real change to happen. 

The current assistant coaches and future assistant coaches will do great things in spite of Barry.  Current wrestlers and future wrestlers will not have as great of an experience as possible because of the leadership currently in the program.  Someone like Ben Askren would make the experience something special.

The apathy of those that defend Barry and his track record over the years will have to live with the program possibly being dropped in the future because of the leadership decisions in many areas.  If my opinion causes someone to choose elsewhere....that would be ridiculous....But perhaps in their best interest.

Offline billymurphy

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2013, 06:50:34 PM »
Mr. Black was correct according to the Iowa website.  Morningstar took an Assistant Coaching job at Iowa. (Iowa is better).  Pritzlaff took an Assistant Coach job which ended up being a higher paying job than he got as UW's top Assistant Coach. (higher pay is better)

TOM BRANDS
Head Coach
7th year

TERRY BRANDS
Associate Head Coach
12th season at Iowa

RYAN MORNINGSTAR
Assistant Coach
1st year at Iowa

KURT BACKES
Volunteer Assistant Coach
3rd year at Iowa

LUKE EUSTICE
Director of Wrestling Operations
7th year at Iowa

LUKE LOFTHOUSE
Strength and Conditioning Coach
1st year at Iowa


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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2013, 06:50:34 PM »

Offline Ghetto

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2013, 06:56:02 PM »
I'm gonna add that title:

Director of Wrestling Operations

I really like that. Not sure what that means, but its a great title.
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Offline dad 2 5

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2013, 08:19:18 PM »
Bart Chelesvig - career change
Terry Steiner - better opportunity (USA Wrestling)
Troy Steiner - position was eliminated by the administration (Advance, Iowa=alma mater now Oregon St.)
Cary Kolat - not interested in coaching at the time (moved to Pitt to train with Sanshiro Abe)
Sean Bormet - better opportunity (Michigan = alma mater, Overtime, etc.)
Cory Wallman - career change
Donny Pritzlaff - 'different' opportunity (Michigan)
Jared Frayer - better opportunity (Oklahoma = alma mater)
Ryan Morningstar - better opportunity (Iowa = alma mater)

Kevin that is a good list and explanations. But of course not all are going to agree with you. I do hope this staff stays together and moves the program forward. I have never asked BD how long he plans on coaching. That would be interesting to hear if he wants to move up in the department, not that that would be a good move or focus on the Badger Club Team?

Offline hammen

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2013, 10:23:21 PM »
The reasons for leaving are not as simple as career change for all of the coaches that are listed.  Those that have ever talked to most of them, know the real problem within the program.  It is Barry and he has to go for real change to happen. 

The current assistant coaches and future assistant coaches will do great things in spite of Barry.  Current wrestlers and future wrestlers will not have as great of an experience as possible because of the leadership currently in the program.  Someone like Ben Askren would make the experience something special.

The apathy of those that defend Barry and his track record over the years will have to live with the program possibly being dropped in the future because of the leadership decisions in many areas.  If my opinion causes someone to choose elsewhere....that would be ridiculous....But perhaps in their best interest.

I guess I must've not talked to all of them  ???

Offline Derek Miller 33

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2013, 12:16:51 AM »
I totally agree these assistant coaches are complete class. After brief conversations at the cheesehead with tb and kr it didn't take long to see their passion and and very good insight to the sport. I believe they add the year round passion alot of people want to see. I also think they bring credibility to their postions when they talk with people you can take what they say to heart.

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2013, 12:16:51 AM »

Offline Kevin Black

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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2013, 12:42:40 AM »
These types of threads are very disheartening for me, to say the least.  

I made the choice to stay in Wisconsin to compete in college because it felt like it was the "right" thing to do as an athlete.  At 18 years old, I thought I had a responsibility to the Wisconsin wrestling community who helped raise me, was an integral part of the success I had as a high school athlete and played a large role in developing me into the man I am today.

I believed in Wisconsin because I was emotionally attached to the wrestling community in this state and was/am a lifelong Badgers fan.  I was also full of hope and believed in myself.  15 years later, my perspective on life and wrestling have drastically changed.  My overall feelings of the entire Wisconsin wrestling community have also changed.

I still believe in Wisconsin because I choose to.  As a result, I make a concerted effort to support the program publicly because I know there are individuals who are in the same place I was as a senior in high school.  They want to be a part of the Wisconsin wrestling community for their entire wrestling career because they believe in themselves, regardless of the particulars (administration, coaching staff, etc.).  Some have dreamt of wearing a Badgers singlet since they were toddlers.  I don't want to stand in the way of those dreams because I had the same one and I'm glad I tried to pursue it.  The outcome of my competitive career wasn't as desirable as I would have liked it to be or what I envisioned at 18.  There are many things to consider when understanding why.  It could have been my own shortcomings, the program's shortcomings, the coaches shortcomings or a multitude of other things and a combination of all of them.

I'm sure many of the posters understand this and genuinely believe they're doing their part to assure those who choose Wisconsin have the best experience possible.  Most of the posters want what's best for the Wisconsin wrestling community, however, some of them become focused solely on themselves and not the entire community.  I don't agree with many of the opinions on this thread and don't expect everyone to agree with all of my opinions because we all have different backgrounds and life experiences (although, I'm not sharing my opinions about the program publicly).  Healthy and productive dialogue is possible in an Internet forum setting as long as participants are respectful and truthful.  

To insinuate the reason the assistant coaches mentioned left for anything other than a "better opportunity" (anyway you'd like to define that term) is simply conjecture and entirely unproductive.
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Re: Could not have said it better....
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2013, 12:42:40 AM »