BD-contract extension

wrestler_73 · April 25, 2017, 02:58:26 PM

It is sad to hear those on the forum that defend the decision to give BD a contract extension by stating the many number of reasons why the UW Program can not be compared to top programs in the nation. We don't have this or that...that is such BS. Small thinking results in small achievements.

It may be true that UW Admin would never take a chance on Ben Askren...and some of our hopes of Ben taking this job is just forum fodder. I do firmly believe that if given a chance Ben would make the RTC really work and it would be a draw for elite athletes around the world. He would think different and in time we would get much different and better results! it would be exciting to be a Badger fan...even with some individual success at NCAA's the past few years...it is not much fun to be a Badger fan...This may never happen...but I can hope as much as those that love things the way they are....

Nothing limits achievement like small thinking..nothing expands possibilities like unleashed imagination! William Ward

npope · April 25, 2017, 04:57:26 PM

Personally, I don't care whether BD stays or goes, but I think those calling for change as if the sky is falling (has fallen) don't have the "right" perspective. There are about 56 DI wrestling programs and the UW consistently (more or less) finishes in the top 20; that's a typical finish somewhere in the top half - closer to the good end than the "bad" end of that spectrum. While not great, certainly not a disaster.

Second, the drum beat for Askren isn't all that helpful. For all BA's potential, he is a polarizing candidate (and he thrives on that polarization - it's not something he seems to be looking to moderate). BA might be a great (head) coach and may turn out to be something wonderful at a major DI program...but that has yet to be proved in any way as of yet; he would be a "big roll of the dice" for a major DI program.

So, demanding change is one thing. Demanding that that change be BA adds an even higher degree of unlikelihood to the situation. I don't think the UW is in the habit of rolling the dice...and what they have right now ain't all that bad - it's just not all that good compared to other Big Ten programs (the best wrestling conference in the nation). I think part of our problem as fans is that we might be expecting too much of the UW - especially for a non-revenue sport.

Live2Pin · April 25, 2017, 05:44:43 PM

We scored 39.5 points this year. That puts us 107 points out of 1st place, 57.5 points from placing and only 39.5 points from dead last. You could make the argument we are much closer to the "bad" end and certainly stuck in a big group of mediocre.

Brett Favre - R.I.P. · April 25, 2017, 10:00:04 PM

Quote from: Live2Pin on April 25, 2017, 05:44:43 PM
We scored 39.5 points this year. That puts us 107 points out of 1st place, 57.5 points from placing and only 39.5 points from dead last. You could make the argument we are much closer to the "bad" end and certainly stuck in a big group of mediocre.

Excellent point. But with Davis and Alvarez joined at the hip I'm not getting my hopes up for anything. So I guess we're stuck with the fact that UW wrestling is going nowhere, fast.

npope · April 26, 2017, 07:09:26 AM

Quote from: Live2Pin on April 25, 2017, 05:44:43 PM
We scored 39.5 points this year. That puts us 107 points out of 1st place, 57.5 points from placing and only 39.5 points from dead last. You could make the argument we are much closer to the "bad" end and certainly stuck in a big group of mediocre.

Lots of ways to slice and dice it. Would you say the winning team (PSU) with five champs and other assorted point scores was a typical year for NCAA wrestling? If not, using the points-scored comparison as a metric is a bit misleading, don't you think? Anyway, if your point is that UW wrestling is closer to stinky than to excellence within the NCAA wrestling world I wouldn't buy it, given what we have seen in recent years; I think it is stuck very close to the middle.

Live2Pin · April 26, 2017, 07:37:43 AM

Thanks for the correction. "Stuck very close to the middle" certainly seems more accurate than "stuck in a big group of mediocre".

Barou · April 26, 2017, 08:05:49 AM

Quote from: npope on April 25, 2017, 04:57:26 PM
Personally, I don't care whether BD stays or goes, but I think those calling for change as if the sky is falling (has fallen) don't have the "right" perspective. There are about 56 DI wrestling programs and the UW consistently (more or less) finishes in the top 20; that's a typical finish somewhere in the top half - closer to the good end than the "bad" end of that spectrum. While not great, certainly not a disaster.

Second, the drum beat for Askren isn't all that helpful. For all BA's potential, he is a polarizing candidate (and he thrives on that polarization - it's not something he seems to be looking to moderate). BA might be a great (head) coach and may turn out to be something wonderful at a major DI program...but that has yet to be proved in any way as of yet; he would be a "big roll of the dice" for a major DI program.

So, demanding change is one thing. Demanding that that change be BA adds an even higher degree of unlikelihood to the situation. I don't think the UW is in the habit of rolling the dice...and what they have right now ain't all that bad - it's just not all that good compared to other Big Ten programs (the best wrestling conference in the nation). I think part of our problem as fans is that we might be expecting too much of the UW - especially for a non-revenue sport.

How is it a "big roll of the dice"? The bar isn't exactly set high. It's not like he's taking over a successful program. UW is six years removed from scoring 9 points at the Big Ten tournament. 9 points! Going into BD's 18th year as HC he elevated his program to 9 total points at his conference tournament. Askren would have to crash and burn to Tom Minkel proportions to not at the very least match BD's success.

Coleman Scott seems to be doing OK at UNC. Keith Gavin is younger then Askren and just got the HC job at Pitt and he had 2-3 years of experience as an assistant. This idea that Askren is a gamble is unfounded. In D1 college wrestling it appears that results as a competitor carry more weight than coaching experience. He fits the profile.

Questions for posters on this thread, do you think that Askren can average better than 18th? Can he generate a better average than 955 for home dual meets?

npope · April 26, 2017, 09:10:23 AM

Quote from: Barou on April 26, 2017, 08:05:49 AM

How is it a "big roll of the dice"? The bar isn't exactly set high. It's not like he's taking over a successful program. UW is six years removed from scoring 9 points at the Big Ten tournament. 9 points! Going into BD's 18th year as HC he elevated his program to 9 total points at his conference tournament. Askren would have to crash and burn to Tom Minkel proportions to not at the very least match BD's success.

Coleman Scott seems to be doing OK at UNC. Keith Gavin is younger then Askren and just got the HC job at Pitt and he had 2-3 years of experience as an assistant. This idea that Askren is a gamble is unfounded. In D1 college wrestling it appears that results as a competitor carry more weight than coaching experience. He fits the profile.

Questions for posters on this thread, do you think that Askren can average better than 18th? Can he generate a better average than 955 for home dual meets?

I think BA more closely resembles Andy Rein than he resembles BD. That would give Barry A. significant pause, given his experience. I think you are limiting the sole assessment of a "good" coaching hire to the results on the mat. That's not to say that Ben might not be excellent on all fronts, but he simply has a short track record as a coach at the NCAA level and seems to like his calling card as a maverick (and I think he wears it well - personally I like it). I just don't think Barry A. shares my feelings..and givin his responsibilities, he might be well-advise to tread lightly on this front.