Rowley in the portal

Started by vsmf2010, April 24, 2023, 11:39:32 AM

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Healthy and happy

Quote from: novice wrestler on April 26, 2023, 01:40:19 PM
Quote from: kmoc33 on April 26, 2023, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: novice wrestler on April 26, 2023, 10:14:43 AM
Quote from: wrastle63 on April 24, 2023, 01:03:45 PMI am ready for a change. Not because Bono and co haven't improved the Badgers, but because AWA is going nowhere and is improving overall. If we had Buchanan, O'Toole, Keckeisen, and Mocco to go along with Barnett we would be looking at a easy team trophy this year. Look at the WI kids that are leaving Whiting, Mirasola x2, Messenbrink, Sinclair, Hopke, etc. I agree with the posters about needing to support, but Pinnacle and AWA aren't supporting UW. The 2 best local clubs, and in general the state of Wisconsin's wrestlers are going elsewhere.

If one of the AWA guys was the coach we wouldn't have that.

Well..since you seem to think we wouldn't have this with Ben as a coach, lets flip the script and do a little exercise in assessing the outcome of AWA over the last 10 years that Ben has been bashing Davis and Bono

On the Division I level, success is largely determined by how many points you can score and place as a team in the NCAA tournament (and a slightly smaller degree in the Big Ten tournament).  With that at a reference point, lets look back at the D1 AA success of AWA.
Conservatively (correct me if my numbers are way off) but let say that AWA has had 300+ kids come through their multiple sites youth program from 2014-2023.  In this 10 year window how many AA's have trained at AWA?  To the best of my recollection, I come up with three:  O'Toole, Keickheisen (two absolute studs) and Mocco this year.  So, three out of 300+ kids equates out to less than 1%.  And in the 5 year window of 2014-2019, that number is 0%
Humm... not sure that this could be considered a successful production, at a D1 level. 

very interesting points you bring up. data can be interpreted many ways. First I think these numbers will sky rocket in the next 10 but that is an opinion. Also you start by saying scoring points, and you can score points even if you dont AA. 

Nationally there are 247,000 wrestlers, and 1% of those end up at D1 schools
So that means roughly 2,474 kids are wrestling d1
of those 80 AA

so if AWA is getting almost 4% of the AA, that seems like a pretty big number to me
True you don't have to be an AA to score points.  Five or six guys scoring 2 to 4 points isn't going to getting it done!!  The big points and ultimate success comes from how many AA's you have per year.  Ben has been questioning the success at UW for 10 years so that decade is the reference point.  That means there has be 800 AA in the past 10 years and 3 AA are from AWA.  That is well below .01 %, so again you can argue that is not really successful

The real point for this is show that you need to be careful on how much you bash someone else's success when your record of success really isn't that stellar.  "People who live is glass houses shouldn't throw stones"
I stand corrected, AWA has had 7 AA's (O'toole and Keickheisen are now 3x AA) over 10 years.  Still below .01%

kmoc33

Quote from: novice wrestler on April 26, 2023, 01:40:19 PM
Quote from: kmoc33 on April 26, 2023, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: novice wrestler on April 26, 2023, 10:14:43 AM
Quote from: wrastle63 on April 24, 2023, 01:03:45 PMI am ready for a change. Not because Bono and co haven't improved the Badgers, but because AWA is going nowhere and is improving overall. If we had Buchanan, O'Toole, Keckeisen, and Mocco to go along with Barnett we would be looking at a easy team trophy this year. Look at the WI kids that are leaving Whiting, Mirasola x2, Messenbrink, Sinclair, Hopke, etc. I agree with the posters about needing to support, but Pinnacle and AWA aren't supporting UW. The 2 best local clubs, and in general the state of Wisconsin's wrestlers are going elsewhere.

If one of the AWA guys was the coach we wouldn't have that.

Well..since you seem to think we wouldn't have this with Ben as a coach, lets flip the script and do a little exercise in assessing the outcome of AWA over the last 10 years that Ben has been bashing Davis and Bono

On the Division I level, success is largely determined by how many points you can score and place as a team in the NCAA tournament (and a slightly smaller degree in the Big Ten tournament).  With that at a reference point, lets look back at the D1 AA success of AWA.
Conservatively (correct me if my numbers are way off) but let say that AWA has had 300+ kids come through their multiple sites youth program from 2014-2023.  In this 10 year window how many AA's have trained at AWA?  To the best of my recollection, I come up with three:  O'Toole, Keickheisen (two absolute studs) and Mocco this year.  So, three out of 300+ kids equates out to less than 1%.  And in the 5 year window of 2014-2019, that number is 0%
Humm... not sure that this could be considered a successful production, at a D1 level. 

very interesting points you bring up. data can be interpreted many ways. First I think these numbers will sky rocket in the next 10 but that is an opinion. Also you start by saying scoring points, and you can score points even if you dont AA. 

Nationally there are 247,000 wrestlers, and 1% of those end up at D1 schools
So that means roughly 2,474 kids are wrestling d1
of those 80 AA

so if AWA is getting almost 4% of the AA, that seems like a pretty big number to me
True you don't have to be an AA to score points.  Five or six guys scoring 2 to 4 points isn't going to getting it done!!  The big points and ultimate success comes from how many AA's you have per year.  Ben has been questioning the success at UW for 10 years so that decade is the reference point.  That means there has be 800 AA in the past 10 years and 3 AA are from AWA.  That is well below .01 %, so again you can argue that is not really successful

The real point for this is show that you need to be careful on how much you bash someone else's success when your record of success really isn't that stellar.  "People who live is glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

then it would be 7 AA out of 720 over that time period. (one was cancelled)  .97, still under 1% but I would argue that is stellar considering these kids being talked about were 11-12 at the beginning of the data. Over the last 3 years he has had 2.5% , 2.5% , and 3.75% of the AA. The number of kids being sent to D1 has drastically improved and continue to rise. So one could assume so will the % of AA.

Healthy and happy

Quote from: kmoc33 on April 26, 2023, 03:12:57 PM
Quote from: novice wrestler on April 26, 2023, 01:40:19 PM
Quote from: kmoc33 on April 26, 2023, 01:03:38 PM
Quote from: novice wrestler on April 26, 2023, 10:14:43 AM
Quote from: wrastle63 on April 24, 2023, 01:03:45 PMI am ready for a change. Not because Bono and co haven't improved the Badgers, but because AWA is going nowhere and is improving overall. If we had Buchanan, O'Toole, Keckeisen, and Mocco to go along with Barnett we would be looking at a easy team trophy this year. Look at the WI kids that are leaving Whiting, Mirasola x2, Messenbrink, Sinclair, Hopke, etc. I agree with the posters about needing to support, but Pinnacle and AWA aren't supporting UW. The 2 best local clubs, and in general the state of Wisconsin's wrestlers are going elsewhere.

If one of the AWA guys was the coach we wouldn't have that.

Well..since you seem to think we wouldn't have this with Ben as a coach, lets flip the script and do a little exercise in assessing the outcome of AWA over the last 10 years that Ben has been bashing Davis and Bono

On the Division I level, success is largely determined by how many points you can score and place as a team in the NCAA tournament (and a slightly smaller degree in the Big Ten tournament).  With that at a reference point, lets look back at the D1 AA success of AWA.
Conservatively (correct me if my numbers are way off) but let say that AWA has had 300+ kids come through their multiple sites youth program from 2014-2023.  In this 10 year window how many AA's have trained at AWA?  To the best of my recollection, I come up with three:  O'Toole, Keickheisen (two absolute studs) and Mocco this year.  So, three out of 300+ kids equates out to less than 1%.  And in the 5 year window of 2014-2019, that number is 0%
Humm... not sure that this could be considered a successful production, at a D1 level. 

very interesting points you bring up. data can be interpreted many ways. First I think these numbers will sky rocket in the next 10 but that is an opinion. Also you start by saying scoring points, and you can score points even if you dont AA. 

Nationally there are 247,000 wrestlers, and 1% of those end up at D1 schools
So that means roughly 2,474 kids are wrestling d1
of those 80 AA

so if AWA is getting almost 4% of the AA, that seems like a pretty big number to me
True you don't have to be an AA to score points.  Five or six guys scoring 2 to 4 points isn't going to getting it done!!  The big points and ultimate success comes from how many AA's you have per year.  Ben has been questioning the success at UW for 10 years so that decade is the reference point.  That means there has be 800 AA in the past 10 years and 3 AA are from AWA.  That is well below .01 %, so again you can argue that is not really successful

The real point for this is show that you need to be careful on how much you bash someone else's success when your record of success really isn't that stellar.  "People who live is glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

then it would be 7 AA out of 720 over that time period. (one was cancelled)  .97, still under 1% but I would argue that is stellar considering these kids being talked about were 11-12 at the beginning of the data. Over the last 3 years he has had 2.5% , 2.5% , and 3.75% of the AA. The number of kids being sent to D1 has drastically improved and continue to rise. So one could assume so will the % of AA.
I am sorry if I am not making myself clear.  This is not about the current kids.  I would love nothing more than to see these kids succeed on the national level and hopefully do it and representing their home state.
This is about Ben and his comments about the lack of success at UW over the past ten years.  I am just making the point that success of the two programs is not significantly different.  The leaders of both have goals and aspirations to be the best they can and both work hard to accomplish that. Can we agree on that?
I just dont believe in the idea of demeaning something makes you better than them.  Just hoping for some humility

Vir Fortis

Quote from: wrastle63 on April 24, 2023, 01:03:45 PMI am ready for a change. Not because Bono and co haven't improved the Badgers, but because AWA is going nowhere and is improving overall. If we had Buchanan, O'Toole, Keckeisen, and Mocco to go along with Barnett we would be looking at a easy team trophy this year. Look at the WI kids that are leaving Whiting, Mirasola x2, Messenbrink, Sinclair, Hopke, etc. I agree with the posters about needing to support, but Pinnacle and AWA aren't supporting UW. The 2 best local clubs, and in general the state of Wisconsin's wrestlers are going elsewhere.

If one of the AWA guys was the coach we wouldn't have that.

I understand this, but Askren is still a Mizzou alum and Smith is his mentor/coach. So I'd still expect him to be...expressing very positive opinions about going there.

Mirasola and Messenbrink picked the best Program and...honestly probably at a point when it's at it's best that it's been under Cael, so you're not guaranteed to get either. Throw Hopke into that mix.

Messenbrink is jumping to a team with Haines and Facundo(who did go 0-2, but was a big time recruit) with no RS and only the chance that Haines might RS and the Mirasola's are not the top ranked Wrestlers at the weights they're going to be at...which means they're going there, IMO, because they're THAT confident they can grow and develop on the NLWC and pass up guys like Barr, Ryder, maybe Sealey(probably more Messenbrink's weight).

Those are ballsy moves and I'd suspect a MAJOR reason behind those moves are because they want to Wrestle at the NLWC, not just for Cael.

And to be clear, I'm not suggesting Messenbrink is going somewhere he's unlikely to win the spot, just that he's going to a school that has two stud Freshmen coming back. He DID beat Haines in a best of 3(I believe 2 straight) last they met. And I think the Mirasola's are underrated.



Anyway, my point, just replacing Bono with a more AWA friendly coach doesn't mean you're getting a steady flow of the top AWA Wrestlers. You'll at least be in the mix, but it's not that simple. When you have Wrestlers like Messenbrink(in the portal) or Hopke, Sinclair, the Twins, I'd throw Millar(lots of others)...you're going to have a lot of programs lining up.

BadgerOne

Rowley is committing to Purdue.  He joins prior UW commits Greyson Clark and Hayden Copass there.

WrestlerSB80

Move Reader up and bring in Becker on the coaching staff, problem solved.

MNbadger

Why do you assume Becker wants to go to UW?
Quote from: WrestlerSB80 on May 20, 2023, 09:22:08 AMMove Reader up and bring in Becker on the coaching staff, problem solved.
I would like to reach through the screen and slap the next person who starts a thread about "global warming." Wraslfan
"Obama thinks we should all be on welfare."  BigG
"MN will eventually go the way of Greece." Wraslfan

dad 2 5

Quote from: MNbadger on May 20, 2023, 10:22:41 AMWhy do you assume Becker wants to go to UW?
Quote from: WrestlerSB80 on May 20, 2023, 09:22:08 AMMove Reader up and bring in Becker on the coaching staff, problem solved.

Pay and Big Ten would be the first two things that come to me but I have no idea if Becker would be interested

BadgerOne

Quote from: dad 2 5 on May 20, 2023, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: MNbadger on May 20, 2023, 10:22:41 AMWhy do you assume Becker wants to go to UW?
Quote from: WrestlerSB80 on May 20, 2023, 09:22:08 AMMove Reader up and bring in Becker on the coaching staff, problem solved.

Pay and Big Ten would be the first two things that come to me but I have no idea if Becker would be interested

Based on what I've seen online, the Associate Head coach job (Reader's current job) pays more than double Becker's current salary, so Becker should be interested if he has D1 coaching aspirations.  Reader/Becker should recruit better than Bono/Reader just in terms of instate recruiting and have greater access to AWA westlers.  I think Reader would be able to recruit better nationally too. I think Bono has p*ssed off too many people in the wrestling community (beyond the Askrens) that has hindered his recruiting and Reader is viewed more positively.  Plus, Becker probably is able to develop talent better than Bono in the wrestling room. 

factfinder

#24
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 20, 2023, 02:32:44 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on May 20, 2023, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: MNbadger on May 20, 2023, 10:22:41 AMWhy do you assume Becker wants to go to UW?
Quote from: WrestlerSB80 on May 20, 2023, 09:22:08 AMMove Reader up and bring in Becker on the coaching staff, problem solved.

Pay and Big Ten would be the first two things that come to me but I have no idea if Becker would be interested

Based on what I've seen online, the Associate Head coach job (Reader's current job) pays more than double Becker's current salary, so Becker should be interested if he has D1 coaching aspirations.  Reader/Becker should recruit better than Bono/Reader just in terms of instate recruiting and have greater access to AWA westlers.  I think Reader would be able to recruit better nationally too. I think Bono has p*ssed off too many people in the wrestling community (beyond the Askrens) that has hindered his recruiting and Reader is viewed more positively.  Plus, Becker probably is able to develop talent better than Bono in the wrestling room. 
Um???
Becker has more experience and has a better recruiting record, wouldn't he be the head coach in this imaginary scenario?
Becker could also be drawing a salary from coaching the RTC as well? Plus camps and the fact that he owns a lot of rental properties around dinky town makes his income status a mystery.

BadgerOne

Quote from: factfinder on May 20, 2023, 04:15:08 PM
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 20, 2023, 02:32:44 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on May 20, 2023, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: MNbadger on May 20, 2023, 10:22:41 AMWhy do you assume Becker wants to go to UW?
Quote from: WrestlerSB80 on May 20, 2023, 09:22:08 AMMove Reader up and bring in Becker on the coaching staff, problem solved.

Pay and Big Ten would be the first two things that come to me but I have no idea if Becker would be interested

Based on what I've seen online, the Associate Head coach job (Reader's current job) pays more than double Becker's current salary, so Becker should be interested if he has D1 coaching aspirations.  Reader/Becker should recruit better than Bono/Reader just in terms of instate recruiting and have greater access to AWA westlers.  I think Reader would be able to recruit better nationally too. I think Bono has p*ssed off too many people in the wrestling community (beyond the Askrens) that has hindered his recruiting and Reader is viewed more positively.  Plus, Becker probably is able to develop talent better than Bono in the wrestling room. 
Um???
Becker has more experience and has a better recruiting record, wouldn't he be the head coach in this imaginary scenario?
Becker could also be drawing a salary from coaching the RTC as well? Plus camps and the fact that he owns a lot of rental properties around dinky town make his income status a mystery.


I assume he's talking about Nick Becker rather than Luke Becker, but the OP didn't specify.  Nick Becker as head coach in the Big Ten would be a tough sell to the Wisconsin AD as he didn't even wrestle D1 in college.  I think all or most Big Ten wrestling head coaches have been former D1 wrestlers and usually quite accomplished ones. 

MNbadger

I assumed they were talking about Luke Becker. 
I would like to reach through the screen and slap the next person who starts a thread about "global warming." Wraslfan
"Obama thinks we should all be on welfare."  BigG
"MN will eventually go the way of Greece." Wraslfan

factfinder

#27
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 20, 2023, 06:07:48 PM
Quote from: factfinder on May 20, 2023, 04:15:08 PM
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 20, 2023, 02:32:44 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on May 20, 2023, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: MNbadger on May 20, 2023, 10:22:41 AMWhy do you assume Becker wants to go to UW?
Quote from: WrestlerSB80 on May 20, 2023, 09:22:08 AMMove Reader up and bring in Becker on the coaching staff, problem solved.

Pay and Big Ten would be the first two things that come to me but I have no idea if Becker would be interested

Based on what I've seen online, the Associate Head coach job (Reader's current job) pays more than double Becker's current salary, so Becker should be interested if he has D1 coaching aspirations.  Reader/Becker should recruit better than Bono/Reader just in terms of instate recruiting and have greater access to AWA westlers.  I think Reader would be able to recruit better nationally too. I think Bono has p*ssed off too many people in the wrestling community (beyond the Askrens) that has hindered his recruiting and Reader is viewed more positively.  Plus, Becker probably is able to develop talent better than Bono in the wrestling room. 
Um???
Becker has more experience and has a better recruiting record, wouldn't he be the head coach in this imaginary scenario?
Becker could also be drawing a salary from coaching the RTC as well? Plus camps and the fact that he owns a lot of rental properties around dinky town make his income status a mystery.


I assume he's talking about Nick Becker rather than Luke Becker, but the OP didn't specify.  Nick Becker as head coach in the Big Ten would be a tough sell to the Wisconsin AD as he didn't even wrestle D1 in college.  I think all or most Big Ten wrestling head coaches have been former D1 wrestlers and usually quite accomplished ones. 
It would be a tough sell for any D2 wrestler to coach at any level of D1 which is why I assumed they were talking about Luke.

BadgerOne

Quote from: factfinder on May 20, 2023, 08:11:58 PM
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 20, 2023, 06:07:48 PM
Quote from: factfinder on May 20, 2023, 04:15:08 PM
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 20, 2023, 02:32:44 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on May 20, 2023, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: MNbadger on May 20, 2023, 10:22:41 AMWhy do you assume Becker wants to go to UW?
Quote from: WrestlerSB80 on May 20, 2023, 09:22:08 AMMove Reader up and bring in Becker on the coaching staff, problem solved.

Pay and Big Ten would be the first two things that come to me but I have no idea if Becker would be interested

Based on what I've seen online, the Associate Head coach job (Reader's current job) pays more than double Becker's current salary, so Becker should be interested if he has D1 coaching aspirations.  Reader/Becker should recruit better than Bono/Reader just in terms of instate recruiting and have greater access to AWA westlers.  I think Reader would be able to recruit better nationally too. I think Bono has p*ssed off too many people in the wrestling community (beyond the Askrens) that has hindered his recruiting and Reader is viewed more positively.  Plus, Becker probably is able to develop talent better than Bono in the wrestling room. 
Um???
Becker has more experience and has a better recruiting record, wouldn't he be the head coach in this imaginary scenario?
Becker could also be drawing a salary from coaching the RTC as well? Plus camps and the fact that he owns a lot of rental properties around dinky town make his income status a mystery.


I assume he's talking about Nick Becker rather than Luke Becker, but the OP didn't specify.  Nick Becker as head coach in the Big Ten would be a tough sell to the Wisconsin AD as he didn't even wrestle D1 in college.  I think all or most Big Ten wrestling head coaches have been former D1 wrestlers and usually quite accomplished ones. 
It would be a tough sell for any D2 wrestler to coach at any level of D1 which is why I assumed they were talking about Luke.

I agree with what you've said, if the Becker in question is LUke Becker.  The reason I assumed Nick Becker is that Ben Askren brought up Nick Becker's name as someone who he thinks is a good coach under the thread "Badgers under Bono".  Someone else in a later thread mentioned they thought Askren or Becker (didn't specify first name) would help instate recruiting, so since Ben Askren had mentioned specifically Nick B earlier, I assumed they were also referring to Nick Becker here, though I could be mistaken.

BadgerOne

Quote from: BadgerOne on May 20, 2023, 10:34:44 PM
Quote from: factfinder on May 20, 2023, 08:11:58 PM
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 20, 2023, 06:07:48 PM
Quote from: factfinder on May 20, 2023, 04:15:08 PM
Quote from: BadgerOne on May 20, 2023, 02:32:44 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on May 20, 2023, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: MNbadger on May 20, 2023, 10:22:41 AMWhy do you assume Becker wants to go to UW?
Quote from: WrestlerSB80 on May 20, 2023, 09:22:08 AMMove Reader up and bring in Becker on the coaching staff, problem solved.

Pay and Big Ten would be the first two things that come to me but I have no idea if Becker would be interested

Based on what I've seen online, the Associate Head coach job (Reader's current job) pays more than double Becker's current salary, so Becker should be interested if he has D1 coaching aspirations.  Reader/Becker should recruit better than Bono/Reader just in terms of instate recruiting and have greater access to AWA westlers.  I think Reader would be able to recruit better nationally too. I think Bono has p*ssed off too many people in the wrestling community (beyond the Askrens) that has hindered his recruiting and Reader is viewed more positively.  Plus, Becker probably is able to develop talent better than Bono in the wrestling room. 
Um???
Becker has more experience and has a better recruiting record, wouldn't he be the head coach in this imaginary scenario?
Becker could also be drawing a salary from coaching the RTC as well? Plus camps and the fact that he owns a lot of rental properties around dinky town make his income status a mystery.


I assume he's talking about Nick Becker rather than Luke Becker, but the OP didn't specify.  Nick Becker as head coach in the Big Ten would be a tough sell to the Wisconsin AD as he didn't even wrestle D1 in college.  I think all or most Big Ten wrestling head coaches have been former D1 wrestlers and usually quite accomplished ones. 
It would be a tough sell for any D2 wrestler to coach at any level of D1 which is why I assumed they were talking about Luke.

I agree with what you've said, if the Becker in question is LUke Becker.  The reason I assumed Nick Becker is that Ben Askren brought up Nick Becker's name as someone who he thinks is a good coach under the thread "Badgers under Bono".  Someone else in a later thread mentioned they thought Askren or Becker (didn't specify first name) would help instate recruiting, so since Ben Askren had mentioned specifically Nick B earlier, I assumed they were also referring to Nick Becker here due to his connection to Wisconsin, though I could be mistaken.