Vote on weight classes

Started by Aquinaswrestling, March 01, 2023, 02:56:48 PM

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Ghetto

Quote from: ThumbWrestler on March 13, 2023, 03:37:46 PMCoaches should give everyone a chance to wrestle varsity. Fill the weight classes. Participation is the key. Actually going from the practice room to the mat is the key. Want parents more involved, let them watch their kid wrestle varsity.

And regionals... allow more than 1 wrestler per team per weight. Let as many kids try to qualify as want to.

Can't tell you how many 'duals' I've been to where a varsity slot could have been taken by a jv kid, even if he/she was going to get beat. Losing is part of learning.



One of the reasons we are even voting on less weights is that we don't have enough kids. Throwing kids out there to get their tails kicked is definitely a reason (excuse) that kids quit. They don't stick around if they get mangled week after week.
As long as we are keeping score, I've got something to prove

Ghetto

Someone far smarter than me had this suggestion, so I take no credit for it. And yes, I know we aren't voting on this.

Why not have 12 weights during the regular season, and go to 14 for the state tournament series? Qualify for team state by winning your conference dual tournament or something. Football somehow knows how to do a playoff system. Why not us?

Then there's no argument on "this kid can't make it to state cuz we cut one weight". It also brings the number down for duals, reduces the time tournaments take, and a million other reasons why we might cut weights in the first place.
As long as we are keeping score, I've got something to prove

CoachC

I voted for 12 weights, and did so with 50 kids on our team.  I have no problem recruiting kids and having healthy numbers and filling 14 weights.  I coach football to do just that.  With that said even with 50 kids in the room, it is a real struggle to fill all 14 weights with Varsity caliber wrestlers and I absolutely hate wrestling kids varsity before they are ready.  The vast majority of my wrestlers come out for the first time in high school.  Personally with 12 weights, I would hope that it would lead to more JV opportunities or JV duals.  Our JV wrestlers need that team aspect to keep them engaged and motivated.  The more comradery we can build with those new wrestlers, the more likely we are to keep them out and grow the sport in my opinion. 

rankwizard

Quote from: CoachC on March 14, 2023, 10:28:47 AMI voted for 12 weights, and did so with 50 kids on our team.  I have no problem recruiting kids and having healthy numbers and filling 14 weights.  I coach football to do just that.  With that said even with 50 kids in the room, it is a real struggle to fill all 14 weights with Varsity caliber wrestlers and I absolutely hate wrestling kids varsity before they are ready.  The vast majority of my wrestlers come out for the first time in high school.  Personally with 12 weights, I would hope that it would lead to more JV opportunities or JV duals.  Our JV wrestlers need that team aspect to keep them engaged and motivated.  The more comradery we can build with those new wrestlers, the more likely we are to keep them out and grow the sport in my opinion. 

What is your definition of "varsity caliber"?

Just because a kid can't rack up a winning varsity record and compete for a spot at individual state doesn't mean that they can't hold a varsity spot.

Numbers

Varsity caliber
Is it 25-30 winning percentage (excluding forfeits)?
Or maybe does not lose in less than 6 minutes more than half the time?

Ghetto

Quote from: rankwizard on March 14, 2023, 12:43:23 PM
Quote from: CoachC on March 14, 2023, 10:28:47 AMI voted for 12 weights, and did so with 50 kids on our team.  I have no problem recruiting kids and having healthy numbers and filling 14 weights.  I coach football to do just that.  With that said even with 50 kids in the room, it is a real struggle to fill all 14 weights with Varsity caliber wrestlers and I absolutely hate wrestling kids varsity before they are ready.  The vast majority of my wrestlers come out for the first time in high school.  Personally with 12 weights, I would hope that it would lead to more JV opportunities or JV duals.  Our JV wrestlers need that team aspect to keep them engaged and motivated.  The more comradery we can build with those new wrestlers, the more likely we are to keep them out and grow the sport in my opinion. 

What is your definition of "varsity caliber"?

Just because a kid can't rack up a winning varsity record and compete for a spot at individual state doesn't mean that they can't hold a varsity spot.

Anyone with a .200 winning percentage was the line for me, though it should probably be higher in an era of scrambles.
As long as we are keeping score, I've got something to prove

Coach V

Imagine if in baseball, they just took an out every time a "non-varsity caliber" player came to bat, or you played without a 2nd baseman because he isn't,"varsity caliber". If he/she is the best kid you have at your school, that's your varsity.  I use them for duals for sure. Part of the chess match. Individual tournaments are at the discretion of the coach on how to develop them. Most varsity tournaments allow for more matches against opponents of the same caliber later in the tournament. If you can go 0-2,1-2 at some tournaments, and get better. Learn to battle first. Wrestling is tough, so is life. just sayin
You dont wrestle,your a wrestler

bigoil

Quote from: Coach V on March 15, 2023, 07:46:59 AMImagine if in baseball, they just took an out every time a "non-varsity caliber" player came to bat, or you played without a 2nd baseman because he isn't,"varsity caliber". If he/she is the best kid you have at your school, that's your varsity.  I use them for duals for sure. Part of the chess match. Individual tournaments are at the discretion of the coach on how to develop them. Most varsity tournaments allow for more matches against opponents of the same caliber later in the tournament. If you can go 0-2,1-2 at some tournaments, and get better. Learn to battle first. Wrestling is tough, so is life. just sayin
There are times that you haven't sent out a kid though, so there is discretion that you do use.

I've seen kids who could have used development on jv, but the team I coached was always short kids and we sent out raw freshman, they weren't in the room sophomore year.

DocWrestling

Kids badly want to be on varsity to say they are on varsity.  Then they seldom get their hand raised and see teammates who are even better than them having more fun winning on JV.  They soon realize being on varsity because they weigh the right amount is not that great and then the shine is off.  Hopefully the coach recognizes soon enough or that kid is done wrestling.

Truth is that this happens most in the light weights because that is where most of the holes in lineups are.  There are a ton of stud lightweights but so many others that should not be varsity.
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

DocWrestling

I think...
1) There should be a different amount of weights for duals and tournaments
2) There should be different weight classes for JV duals.  They are younger wrestlers primarily and weigh less so all the weight classes should be 4-5 lbs less for JV.
3) All JV events should use weight classes and stop treating JV's like they are in a 3rd grade local tournament
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

wrastle63

Quote from: Coach V on March 15, 2023, 07:46:59 AMImagine if in baseball, they just took an out every time a "non-varsity caliber" player came to bat, or you played without a 2nd baseman because he isn't,"varsity caliber". If he/she is the best kid you have at your school, that's your varsity.  I use them for duals for sure. Part of the chess match. Individual tournaments are at the discretion of the coach on how to develop them. Most varsity tournaments allow for more matches against opponents of the same caliber later in the tournament. If you can go 0-2,1-2 at some tournaments, and get better. Learn to battle first. Wrestling is tough, so is life. just sayin
EXACTLY! We have all seen this in multiple sports. What about the team that isn't varisty caliber? Should they be forced to only wrestle JV? If a basketball team goes 4-20 should they be forced to only compete on the JV level? We are our own worst enemey....

DocWrestling

If you cannot understand that wrestling is different then I don't know what to say but here goes.

Wrestling is one on one out there all by yourself.  Completely different than a team sport hiding and inexperienced kid in a team competition.

Wrestling is a combat physical sport.  It is more intense because of that.  Nobody likes getting beat up anywhere especially on a mat all by themselves with friends and family watching.  Is there any sport that is more humiliating than going out on a mat and getting whipped and pinned?  I agree it can build great character but may not be enough for that wrestler to keep coming back for more.

 Being on varsity does not keep kids in the sport.  Heck getting a letter does not even mean much anymore.  The one thing that keeps kids wrestling is validation for their hard work by getting their hand raised.
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

wrastle63

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 15, 2023, 10:41:29 AMIf you cannot understand that wrestling is different then I don't know what to say but here goes.

Wrestling is one on one out there all by yourself.  Completely different than a team sport hiding and inexperienced kid in a team competition.

Wrestling is a combat physical sport.  It is more intense because of that.  Nobody likes getting beat up anywhere especially on a mat all by themselves with friends and family watching.  Is there any sport that is more humiliating than going out on a mat and getting whipped and pinned?  I agree it can build great character but may not be enough for that wrestler to keep coming back for more.

 Being on varsity does not keep kids in the sport.  Heck getting a letter does not even mean much anymore.  The one thing that keeps kids wrestling is validation for their hard work by getting their hand raised.
Actually it does in a lot of cases.

Coach V

Doc- baseball- pitcher vs batter- 1 on 1- strikeout- kinda the same as a pin. Error in the field, getting scored on, if it gives up a run, then its giving up a major, 2 runs- a tech, etc

1- Different weight classes for duals and tournaments is a tough with weight decent plans and who wrestles when, but it is an interesting concept- would have to see the weights and think some more.

2- again, could be problems if you need them on varsity sometimes with different weights. I do like the lower weight class for them.

3- agree. Tough with lower numbers at some tournaments and we want mat time for JV.
You dont wrestle,your a wrestler

Coach V

Big Oil- that's the chess match  ;)
You dont wrestle,your a wrestler