Whats up with Wisc NCAA #S

Started by factfinder, March 12, 2023, 07:48:06 AM

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factfinder

The Annual Flo numbers of NCAA Qualifiers by state came out on Friday.
They show the recent and past trends so it's fun to see if each state is improving or declining.
Unfortunately Wisconsin is declining.
from 2002--2013 Wisconsin averaged 7.8 qualifiers a year.
from 2013--2023 Wisconsin has only averaged 5.5 qualifiers.
I believe thats a -29% decrease over the past 10 years.
In 2023 WI has 6 qualifiers.
This isn't a reflection of the entire states progress but it does show Wisc isn't keeping up to Mich, MN, iL and Iowa for putting out NCAA Qualifiers as each of the neighboring states have seen a strong increase in qualifiers.
MN 2002-2013 ave (only 7.0) sense 2013 11.6, 2023-12. thats a 34% increase.
Il 2002- 2013 ave (15.1) sence 2013 26.0, 2023 -32. Thats a 100% increase. INSANE!!
IA 2002- 2013 ave (13.5) sence 2013 13.3, 2023 16. Flat.
MI 2003 -2013 ave (13.7) sense 2013 16.3, 2023 16. Thats a 16% increase.

Ledger

On the bright side, if you consider the WI highschool class of 2024, I think we'll have a lock on 5 qualifiers for several years from just that class alone.  We could surpass 10 total qualifiers by 2026 assuming at least 2 qualifiers from each of the other 3 classes.

bigoil

Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 07:48:06 AMThe Annual Flo numbers of NCAA Qualifiers by state came out on Friday.
They show the recent and past trends so it's fun to see if each state is improving or declining.
Unfortunately Wisconsin is declining.
from 2002--2013 Wisconsin averaged 7.8 qualifiers a year.
from 2013--2023 Wisconsin has only averaged 5.5 qualifiers.
I believe thats a -29% decrease over the past 10 years.
In 2023 WI has 6 qualifiers.
This isn't a reflection of the entire states progress but it does show Wisc isn't keeping up to Mich, MN, iL and Iowa for putting out NCAA Qualifiers as each of the neighboring states have seen a strong increase in qualifiers.
MN 2002-2013 ave (only 7.0) sense 2013 11.6, 2023-12. thats a 34% increase.
Il 2002- 2013 ave (15.1) sence 2013 26.0, 2023 -32. Thats a 100% increase. INSANE!!
IA 2002- 2013 ave (13.5) sence 2013 13.3, 2023 16. Flat.
MI 2003 -2013 ave (13.7) sense 2013 16.3, 2023 16. Thats a 16% increase.
How much of the MN success is Pinnacle, when was that club started?
What is the MN USA program doing different?

I'm just asking questions on how/why MN has pulled so far ahead.

factfinder

Quote from: Ledger on March 12, 2023, 08:24:44 AMOn the bright side, if you consider the WI highschool class of 2024, I think we'll have a lock on 5 qualifiers for several years from just that class alone.  We could surpass 10 total qualifiers by 2026 assuming at least 2 qualifiers from each of the other 3 classes.
Each of those other states have several grades in a row like the 2024 class and about 3 out of a group like that will qualify statistically, not saying more won't but statistically you need a grade to put out 10 to get 3 through.The MN 2023 grade is deeper than the 2024 grade of WI, so its all averages. The 2022 class of MI is crazy as is the 2023 class in Iowa. 
To catch up to 12-16 NCAA qualifiers you need 5 deep grades in a row or 3 super stars like o'tool, Parker and Buchanan that will do it 4-5 years each, most hammers are lucky to qualify 1 or 2 times.



factfinder

#4
Quote from: bigoil on March 12, 2023, 08:46:30 AM
Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 07:48:06 AMThe Annual Flo numbers of NCAA Qualifiers by state came out on Friday.
They show the recent and past trends so it's fun to see if each state is improving or declining.
Unfortunately Wisconsin is declining.
from 2002--2013 Wisconsin averaged 7.8 qualifiers a year.
from 2013--2023 Wisconsin has only averaged 5.5 qualifiers.
I believe thats a -29% decrease over the past 10 years.
In 2023 WI has 6 qualifiers.
This isn't a reflection of the entire states progress but it does show Wisc isn't keeping up to Mich, MN, iL and Iowa for putting out NCAA Qualifiers as each of the neighboring states have seen a strong increase in qualifiers.
MN 2002-2013 ave (only 7.0) sense 2013 11.6, 2023-12. thats a 34% increase.
Il 2002- 2013 ave (15.1) sence 2013 26.0, 2023 -32. Thats a 100% increase. INSANE!!
IA 2002- 2013 ave (13.5) sence 2013 13.3, 2023 16. Flat.
MI 2003 -2013 ave (13.7) sense 2013 16.3, 2023 16. Thats a 16% increase.
How much of the MN success is Pinnacle, when was that club started?
What is the MN USA program doing different?

I'm just asking questions on how/why MN has pulled so far ahead.
MN Elite started around 2008 and Pinnacle around 2009, they both produce qualifiers, some of WI qualifiers go to pinnacle as well.

factfinder

Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 09:00:44 AM
Quote from: bigoil on March 12, 2023, 08:46:30 AM
Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 07:48:06 AMThe Annual Flo numbers of NCAA Qualifiers by state came out on Friday.
They show the recent and past trends so it's fun to see if each state is improving or declining.
Unfortunately Wisconsin is declining.
from 2002--2013 Wisconsin averaged 7.8 qualifiers a year.
from 2013--2023 Wisconsin has only averaged 5.5 qualifiers.
I believe thats a -29% decrease over the past 10 years.
In 2023 WI has 6 qualifiers.
This isn't a reflection of the entire states progress but it does show Wisc isn't keeping up to Mich, MN, iL and Iowa for putting out NCAA Qualifiers as each of the neighboring states have seen a strong increase in qualifiers.
MN 2002-2013 ave (only 7.0) sense 2013 11.6, 2023-12. thats a 34% increase.
Il 2002- 2013 ave (15.1) sence 2013 26.0, 2023 -32. Thats a 100% increase. INSANE!!
IA 2002- 2013 ave (13.5) sence 2013 13.3, 2023 16. Flat.
MI 2003 -2013 ave (13.7) sense 2013 16.3, 2023 16. Thats a 16% increase.
How much of the MN success is Pinnacle, when was that club started?
What is the MN USA program doing different?

I'm just asking questions on how/why MN has pulled so far ahead.
MN Elite started around 2010 and Pinnacle around 2013, they both produce qualifiers.
IMO WWF is a stronger organization then MNUSA, better participation for sure. MN is divided between USA wrestling and NYWA.

bigoil

Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 09:03:00 AM
Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 09:00:44 AM
Quote from: bigoil on March 12, 2023, 08:46:30 AM
Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 07:48:06 AMThe Annual Flo numbers of NCAA Qualifiers by state came out on Friday.
They show the recent and past trends so it's fun to see if each state is improving or declining.
Unfortunately Wisconsin is declining.
from 2002--2013 Wisconsin averaged 7.8 qualifiers a year.
from 2013--2023 Wisconsin has only averaged 5.5 qualifiers.
I believe thats a -29% decrease over the past 10 years.
In 2023 WI has 6 qualifiers.
This isn't a reflection of the entire states progress but it does show Wisc isn't keeping up to Mich, MN, iL and Iowa for putting out NCAA Qualifiers as each of the neighboring states have seen a strong increase in qualifiers.
MN 2002-2013 ave (only 7.0) sense 2013 11.6, 2023-12. thats a 34% increase.
Il 2002- 2013 ave (15.1) sence 2013 26.0, 2023 -32. Thats a 100% increase. INSANE!!
IA 2002- 2013 ave (13.5) sence 2013 13.3, 2023 16. Flat.
MI 2003 -2013 ave (13.7) sense 2013 16.3, 2023 16. Thats a 16% increase.
How much of the MN success is Pinnacle, when was that club started?
What is the MN USA program doing different?

I'm just asking questions on how/why MN has pulled so far ahead.
MN Elite started around 2010 and Pinnacle around 2013, they both produce qualifiers.
IMO WWF is a stronger organization then MNUSA, better participation for sure. MN is divided between USA wrestling and NYWA.
Good to know, are UM coaches involved in either?

Ghetto

Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 09:00:44 AM
Quote from: bigoil on March 12, 2023, 08:46:30 AM
Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 07:48:06 AMThe Annual Flo numbers of NCAA Qualifiers by state came out on Friday.
They show the recent and past trends so it's fun to see if each state is improving or declining.
Unfortunately Wisconsin is declining.
from 2002--2013 Wisconsin averaged 7.8 qualifiers a year.
from 2013--2023 Wisconsin has only averaged 5.5 qualifiers.
I believe thats a -29% decrease over the past 10 years.
In 2023 WI has 6 qualifiers.
This isn't a reflection of the entire states progress but it does show Wisc isn't keeping up to Mich, MN, iL and Iowa for putting out NCAA Qualifiers as each of the neighboring states have seen a strong increase in qualifiers.
MN 2002-2013 ave (only 7.0) sense 2013 11.6, 2023-12. thats a 34% increase.
Il 2002- 2013 ave (15.1) sence 2013 26.0, 2023 -32. Thats a 100% increase. INSANE!!
IA 2002- 2013 ave (13.5) sence 2013 13.3, 2023 16. Flat.
MI 2003 -2013 ave (13.7) sense 2013 16.3, 2023 16. Thats a 16% increase.
How much of the MN success is Pinnacle, when was that club started?
What is the MN USA program doing different?

I'm just asking questions on how/why MN has pulled so far ahead.
MN Elite started around 2010 and Pinnacle around 2013, they both produce qualifiers, some of WI qualifiers go to pinnacle as well.

Without digging too far into the weeds, do you have information on WI kids who go to Pinnacle? Went there who qualified?

For example, we can trace O'Toole and Keckeisen straight back to AWA. By area, Stephen Buchanan might be a Pinnacle guy. Possibly Koy Hopke.
As long as we are keeping score, I've got something to prove

memyselfandi

If you look at division 2 and 3 Wisconsin is doing great.  We had tons of qualifiers and All-American in those divsions

Vir Fortis


factfinder

#10
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 12, 2023, 10:38:02 AMWhat year did AWA start?
Pinnacle had a small group (20 kids) going in 2008, and they formed a partnership and opened there first facility in 2010 (I looked up the wrong info)
According to the AWA web site they opened their first facility in 2011.

littleguy301

Quote from: Ghetto on March 12, 2023, 09:52:04 AM
Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 09:00:44 AM
Quote from: bigoil on March 12, 2023, 08:46:30 AM
Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 07:48:06 AMThe Annual Flo numbers of NCAA Qualifiers by state came out on Friday.
They show the recent and past trends so it's fun to see if each state is improving or declining.
Unfortunately Wisconsin is declining.
from 2002--2013 Wisconsin averaged 7.8 qualifiers a year.
from 2013--2023 Wisconsin has only averaged 5.5 qualifiers.
I believe thats a -29% decrease over the past 10 years.
In 2023 WI has 6 qualifiers.
This isn't a reflection of the entire states progress but it does show Wisc isn't keeping up to Mich, MN, iL and Iowa for putting out NCAA Qualifiers as each of the neighboring states have seen a strong increase in qualifiers.
MN 2002-2013 ave (only 7.0) sense 2013 11.6, 2023-12. thats a 34% increase.
Il 2002- 2013 ave (15.1) sence 2013 26.0, 2023 -32. Thats a 100% increase. INSANE!!
IA 2002- 2013 ave (13.5) sence 2013 13.3, 2023 16. Flat.
MI 2003 -2013 ave (13.7) sense 2013 16.3, 2023 16. Thats a 16% increase.
How much of the MN success is Pinnacle, when was that club started?
What is the MN USA program doing different?

I'm just asking questions on how/why MN has pulled so far ahead.
MN Elite started around 2010 and Pinnacle around 2013, they both produce qualifiers, some of WI qualifiers go to pinnacle as well.

Without digging too far into the weeds, do you have information on WI kids who go to Pinnacle? Went there who qualified?

For example, we can trace O'Toole and Keckeisen straight back to AWA. By area, Stephen Buchanan might be a Pinnacle guy. Possibly Koy Hopke.


Not sure if pinnicle has any WI qualifiers to be honest. I could be wrong. Buchanan was not pinnacle

Crass has had a few. Joles and Buchanan I think could be more.

Wisconsin has dad several d2 and d3 qualifiers.
If life is tough,,,,wear a helmet

littleguy301

Quote from: bigoil on March 12, 2023, 09:07:03 AM
Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 09:03:00 AM
Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 09:00:44 AM
Quote from: bigoil on March 12, 2023, 08:46:30 AM
Quote from: factfinder on March 12, 2023, 07:48:06 AMThe Annual Flo numbers of NCAA Qualifiers by state came out on Friday.
They show the recent and past trends so it's fun to see if each state is improving or declining.
Unfortunately Wisconsin is declining.
from 2002--2013 Wisconsin averaged 7.8 qualifiers a year.
from 2013--2023 Wisconsin has only averaged 5.5 qualifiers.
I believe thats a -29% decrease over the past 10 years.
In 2023 WI has 6 qualifiers.
This isn't a reflection of the entire states progress but it does show Wisc isn't keeping up to Mich, MN, iL and Iowa for putting out NCAA Qualifiers as each of the neighboring states have seen a strong increase in qualifiers.
MN 2002-2013 ave (only 7.0) sense 2013 11.6, 2023-12. thats a 34% increase.
Il 2002- 2013 ave (15.1) sence 2013 26.0, 2023 -32. Thats a 100% increase. INSANE!!
IA 2002- 2013 ave (13.5) sence 2013 13.3, 2023 16. Flat.
MI 2003 -2013 ave (13.7) sense 2013 16.3, 2023 16. Thats a 16% increase.
How much of the MN success is Pinnacle, when was that club started?
What is the MN USA program doing different?

I'm just asking questions on how/why MN has pulled so far ahead.
MN Elite started around 2010 and Pinnacle around 2013, they both produce qualifiers.
IMO WWF is a stronger organization then MNUSA, better participation for sure. MN is divided between USA wrestling and NYWA.
Good to know, are UM coaches involved in either?

Yes the are! Plus all the coaches have kids involved in those age groups also.
If life is tough,,,,wear a helmet

DocWrestling

So which is more important to building an NCAA qualifier?  The high school staff, the HS offseason club, or the college coach?  Trying to say it not all combined is silly.
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

mike

#14
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 12, 2023, 06:59:33 PMSo which is more important to building an NCAA qualifier?  The high school staff, the HS offseason club, or the college coach?  Trying to say it not all combined is silly.

1. Initially club to develop and get wrestler to college level
2. College coach to perfect the wrestler
3. High school staff

Definitely all 3 play important roles