Our only Division I program in the state has not been able to bring in almost any of the incredible talent over the past couple years in the state. It may be unknown how far this talent will go in college, but I have never seen our Badger program not be able to pull in almost any of the blue chippers from Wisconsin. I do not see it much better from outside of Wisconsin. Blame can be shared by many for our current state of affairs. I just don't see how Bono can overcome this and build a program above the bottom half of the big ten standings. It is starting to feel like the BD era.
Its the Barry Davis era all over again. This program is the same as it was under Barry Davis. No one cares that you may have a couple hundred more people in the seats or the "atmosphere" is better - that dont result in wins. This is a bottom tier program going nowhere fast. Its a sad day when NO blue chip recruits want to commit to their hometown program. That alone says alot about Bono and the leadership of the program.
Quote from: wrestle03 on May 08, 2023, 10:44:00 AMIts the Barry Davis era all over again. This program is the same as it was under Barry Davis. No one cares that you may have a couple hundred more people in the seats or the "atmosphere" is better - that dont result in wins. This is a bottom tier program going nowhere fast. Its a sad day when NO blue chip recruits want to commit to their hometown program. That alone says alot about Bono and the leadership of the program.
It is not the BD era. There is more excitement, passion, and wrestling knowledge as a state. The attendance and following of the Badger program is up. We are still getting great recruits from out of state and basically the same results from the BD era.
The problem is the talent coming out the state is growing and the number of kids going to Wisconsin is decreasing. Take the positive changes that Bono and Co have helped produce and move forward. Time for a change.
To add after this season we are losing Barnett and Austin Gomez. At this point unless someone makes a big jump we will have 1 returning AA in Hamiti and ZERO top 50 prospects since Hamiti and Amos came in.
thru 5 years
Davis 40-35-3 B1G 9-17-1 B1G champs-5 AA-10 NCAA Champs 1
Bono 41-28 B1G 15-26 B1G champs-2 AA-9 NCAA Champs 0
Any better....No
Running in place....Yes
Are you saying Barry's first 5 years was 40-35-3? His last 5 years he was 39-28
The next six months will tell a lot. The recruiting is currently in a terrible spot. Having said that, we are a big 10 school so you would think we should be able to attract top talent. If they can't, then it won't be long before a decision will need to be made to move on.
Easy for a coach to recruit against the Badgers when another coach can say "even the kids in Wisconsin don't want to wrestle for Wisconsin"
I do not advocate for coaches to be fired unless they are doing something illegal or unethical and as far as I know Bono is not or has not done any of that. I did not advocate that Barry Davis get fired and I feel the same way about Chris Bono. Not saying either way if he deserves to stay or go. I will support him while he is here and if we have a new coach next week, next month, next year etc.. I will support him as well.
My question for those of you who want him gone. What are you doing about it? Are you bringing up your concerns to Chris McIntosh? Can you reach him by phone or email? Can you show up at the athletic office and ask to see him? Are you reaching out to the biggest donors (have no idea who that would be) to express your feelings? Just curious because clearly some of you feel very strongly about this but I doubt there will be any traction from this forum.
Quote from: heavy9278 on May 08, 2023, 12:22:57 PMthru 5 years
Davis 40-35-3 B1G 9-17-1 B1G champs-5 AA-10 NCAA Champs 1
Bono 41-28 B1G 15-26 B1G champs-2 AA-9 NCAA Champs 0
Any better....No
Running in place....Yes
So Davis was 31-18 outside of the Big Ten and
Bono is 26-2 outside of the Big Ten?
And Penn State, Nebraska and Rutgers were not in the Big Ten years ago?
Quote from: DocWrestling on May 08, 2023, 02:21:58 PMEasy for a coach to recruit against the Badgers when another coach can say "even the kids in Wisconsin don't want to wrestle for Wisconsin"
You must have talked to a parent of a recruit?
Whether you believe me or not I have heard basically the same thing from a D1 coach when talking about Wisconsin.
I don't know much outside my little world.
How many kids actually did Bono get into the living room and sat down and got to talk to the recruits?
I know there was several decent recruits that never got one phone call or an Instagram like! That is pretty sad if you ask me. State champs that don't even get a simple phone call or text message from the state coach.
If Bono cannt reach out to top state kids why should any of them really want to stay in the home state.
Quote from: wrestle03 on May 08, 2023, 10:44:00 AMIts the Barry Davis era all over again. This program is the same as it was under Barry Davis. No one cares that you may have a couple hundred more people in the seats or the "atmosphere" is better - that dont result in wins. This is a bottom tier program going nowhere fast. Its a sad day when NO blue chip recruits want to commit to their hometown program. That alone says alot about Bono and the leadership of the program.
At this point BD was at least out and about and talked with the states top kids. At least BD was in the living room of moat of the top kids.
2023 has been a darn tough year all the way around. I still have hope but I can see why many are discouraged, I know that I am. I like that the Field House seems to have more excitement, though at the end of the day only consistent W's keep that going. I think the coach will be around for a while, but it seems as though the program is really at a cross-roads and needs some good things to happen very soon. It is hard to come back from a feeling of irrelevancy.
Quote from: PAUL on May 08, 2023, 10:08:05 PM2023 has been a darn tough year all the way around. I still have hope but I can see why many are discouraged, I know that I am. I like that the Field House seems to have more excitement, though at the end of the day only consistent W's keep that going. I think the coach will be around for a while, but it seems as though the program is really at a cross-roads and needs some good things to happen very soon. It is hard to come back from a feeling of irrelevancy.
I agree. I think the field house is getting better crowds and more chatter around the program.
I keep hearing the Badgers have the money but I am not sure if they really do. We are talking millions in order to compete with the big dogs! Millions not 20k a mouth situation. It is going to be difficult so Bono needs to get out and recruit and fund raise at the same time!
I don't think Bono can fix himself to fix this situation. Wonder what he was thinking when the situation with Ben developed. He had to know enough about Ben to know what things would push his buttons. It is a sad situation
I want Bono and the Badgers to succeed. So many missed opportunities because of ego. Kids and parents make their own choices on college. If Askren was a badger wrestling supporter there is not a guarantee that kids would all come, but his very vocal feelings on Bono have made it difficult for anyone of high calibre to come to UW. We need a change.
UW is so far from competing with PSU/Iowa, and even UMich/OSU/Cornell. Current facilities, NIL, RTC, etc will make it hard to even compete with Mizzu/NCST/OKST/etc. What Wisconsin does have though is strong wrestling from WIAA/WWF/Clubs/etc. At a bare minimum, UW needs leadership that can connect to that. With that alone UW can be a team Wisconsinites are proud of and possibly be in the race for a trophy. I am a support of Bono and Co., but it just isn't working here.
Quote from: rjchev141 on May 09, 2023, 10:49:12 AMUW is so far from competing with PSU/Iowa, and even UMich/OSU/Cornell. Current facilities, NIL, RTC, etc will make it hard to even compete with Mizzu/NCST/OKST/etc. What Wisconsin does have though is strong wrestling from WIAA/WWF/Clubs/etc. At a bare minimum, UW needs leadership that can connect to that. With that alone UW can be a team Wisconsinites are proud of and possibly be in the race for a trophy. I am a support of Bono and Co., but it just isn't working here.
Hard to argue with any of that
Quote from: rjchev141 on May 09, 2023, 10:49:12 AMUW is so far from competing with PSU/Iowa, and even UMich/OSU/Cornell. Current facilities, NIL, RTC, etc will make it hard to even compete with Mizzu/NCST/OKST/etc. What Wisconsin does have though is strong wrestling from WIAA/WWF/Clubs/etc. At a bare minimum, UW needs leadership that can connect to that. With that alone UW can be a team Wisconsinites are proud of and possibly be in the race for a trophy. I am a support of Bono and Co., but it just isn't working here.
Nailed it.
The in-state recruiting is a huge problem. No excuse for what happened this year.
That being said, I don't have any expectations for UW-Madison as a power wrestling program. Just isn't going to happen, no matter who the coach is. Especially now w/ NIL. Go ahead and fire him. Who's going to replace him? You'll just get more of the same no matter who it is. If it's even possible, it will take SEVERAL years to turn this program around.
I agree Army. Not sure if Wisconsin will have a junior class like this in a while. Don't get me wrong, Wisconsin has a lot of talented wrestlers still in the pipeline. Peterson, Neitzel, Crook, Koch, Herm, Wolbert, Peters and many more. We need to get them in a W singlet.
Quote from: Army Ant on May 09, 2023, 12:14:29 PMThe in-state recruiting is a huge problem. No excuse for what happened this year.
. Go ahead and fire him. Who's going to replace him?
Well, there is a certain severely underpaid assistant coach (compared to ours) nearby.
Quote from: Army Ant on May 09, 2023, 12:14:29 PMThe in-state recruiting is a huge problem. No excuse for what happened this year.
That being said, I don't have any expectations for UW-Madison as a power wrestling program. Just isn't going to happen, no matter who the coach is. Especially now w/ NIL. Go ahead and fire him. Who's going to replace him? You'll just get more of the same no matter who it is. If it's even possible, it will take SEVERAL years to turn this program around.
You kind of contradict yourself at the end, but I'll focus on the first part...Why do you say this? Why is the expectation for UW to be a power wrestling program unreasonable? We have a huge alumni-base. Great university. In-state talent base continues to grow. There's great movement in the NIL space with football and basketball. I know non-revenue sports athletes are able take part in the Varsity Collective efforts that have been set up. There's actually no reason that we can't be in a spot where we are able to compete in that tier behind PSU, IMO.
Quote from: head57 on May 09, 2023, 01:05:55 PMQuote from: Army Ant on May 09, 2023, 12:14:29 PMThe in-state recruiting is a huge problem. No excuse for what happened this year.
That being said, I don't have any expectations for UW-Madison as a power wrestling program. Just isn't going to happen, no matter who the coach is. Especially now w/ NIL. Go ahead and fire him. Who's going to replace him? You'll just get more of the same no matter who it is. If it's even possible, it will take SEVERAL years to turn this program around.
You kind of contradict yourself at the end, but I'll focus on the first part...Why do you say this? Why is the expectation for UW to be a power wrestling program unreasonable? We have a huge alumni-base. Great university. In-state talent base continues to grow. There's great movement in the NIL space with football and basketball. I know non-revenue sports athletes are able take part in the Varsity Collective efforts that have been set up. There's actually no reason that we can't be in a spot where we are able to compete in that tier behind PSU, IMO.
Well your right but outside a couple of in state recruits Bono hasn't landed a single one of the big name recruits and hopefully it changes. Kids just aren't looking to Madison right now.
Quote from: head57 on May 09, 2023, 01:05:55 PMQuote from: Army Ant on May 09, 2023, 12:14:29 PMThe in-state recruiting is a huge problem. No excuse for what happened this year.
That being said, I don't have any expectations for UW-Madison as a power wrestling program. Just isn't going to happen, no matter who the coach is. Especially now w/ NIL. Go ahead and fire him. Who's going to replace him? You'll just get more of the same no matter who it is. If it's even possible, it will take SEVERAL years to turn this program around.
You kind of contradict yourself at the end, but I'll focus on the first part...Why do you say this? Why is the expectation for UW to be a power wrestling program unreasonable? We have a huge alumni-base. Great university. In-state talent base continues to grow. There's great movement in the NIL space with football and basketball. I know non-revenue sports athletes are able take part in the Varsity Collective efforts that have been set up. There's actually no reason that we can't be in a spot where we are able to compete in that tier behind PSU, IMO.
In Vegas there on the light side of 15 AA from Wisconsin and Rivera and future recruit Condon we the only 2 Badgers that AA. In my eyes that is like 12 to 13 u17 and u20 kids the badgers missed out in the state!
I keep hearing not many Bono even got a chance to sit at the dinner table with and talk wrestling. I hope Bono reached out to most of them.
Think about that, 12 or so AA at the open from Wisconsin that are wrestling out of state!
I hope Bono can lock down a few of the u 15 class!
Don't kid yourself that the varsity collective is some booster club for all sports. If they started giving donated money to wrestlers then people would stop donating. As a donor/booster you have the choice what sport(s) you want to support. They ask.
To get NIL money to wrestlers it has to come directly from a donor that wants it to go to wrestlers. The overwhelming number of donors want their money to go to basketball and football. Then hockey and volleyball have some donors. Rest of sports are on their own
Quote from: wrestling for fun on May 09, 2023, 01:03:03 PMQuote from: Army Ant on May 09, 2023, 12:14:29 PMThe in-state recruiting is a huge problem. No excuse for what happened this year.
. Go ahead and fire him. Who's going to replace him?
Well, there is a certain severely underpaid assistant coach (compared to ours) nearby.
I'm assuming you mean Brandvold?
Quote from: Grapl on May 10, 2023, 09:14:02 AMQuote from: wrestling for fun on May 09, 2023, 01:03:03 PMQuote from: Army Ant on May 09, 2023, 12:14:29 PMThe in-state recruiting is a huge problem. No excuse for what happened this year.
. Go ahead and fire him. Who's going to replace him?
Well, there is a certain severely underpaid assistant coach (compared to ours) nearby.
I'm assuming you mean Brandvold?
Brandvold would be great.
Damian Hahn, Bono's replacement at SDSU, is doing some amazing things as well. He is rumored to have just turned down the OU job (which no one wanted for some reason). He found a huge donor and has a great new facility, has a world teamer as well, and clearly has quite the pipeline in MN.
Jake Sueflohn has spent quite a bit of time as an Assistant Coach at Purdue, has the AWA connection and Purdue is currently catching up to UW as a team and clearly doing better then UW regarding recruits. Their coaching staff is amazing.
If I spent more then 2 minutes, I could have a couple other suggestions as well. Point is plenty of mid major coaches and assistant coaches would jump at the chance to be Head Coach at UW.
The Askren situation has killed Bono. It would be best for the program for Bono to go elsewhere at this point. Not saying he is at total fault in the situation (no clue) but the situation has ruined the direction of the program and I don't think there is any way to recover.
In state recruiting would likely be a little better with Brandvold but he isn't going to land the AWA kids at much more of a consistency than Bono. Go with one of the Askrens or Becker if you want to secure the best talent in your home state. All of these guys can obviously coach a kid up but none of that is important if you don't get the talent in the door in the first place. The #1 priority has to be to start landing AWA wrestlers because that is where most of the D1 talent in the state is coming out of. I don't like what has happened with the negative recruiting against Wisconsin but the reality of the situation is that it isn't going to stop until a change is made.
Quote from: Chedd on May 10, 2023, 09:28:51 AMThe Askren situation has killed Bono. It would be best for the program for Bono to go elsewhere at this point. Not saying he is at total fault in the situation (no clue) but the situation has ruined the direction of the program and I don't think there is any way to recover.
In state recruiting would likely be a little better with Brandvold but he isn't going to land the AWA kids at much more of a consistency than Bono. Go with one of the Askrens or Becker if you want to secure the best talent in your home state. All of these guys can obviously coach a kid up but none of that is important if you don't get the talent in the door in the first place. The #1 priority has to be to start landing AWA wrestlers because that is where most of the D1 talent in the state is coming out of. I don't like what has happened with the negative recruiting against Wisconsin but the reality of the situation is that it isn't going to stop until a change is made.
So, Askren as the "king maker" (if not the king himself)? The power behind the throne? Hhhhmmm. Interesting scenario.
Quote from: npope on May 10, 2023, 10:15:50 AMQuote from: Chedd on May 10, 2023, 09:28:51 AMThe Askren situation has killed Bono. It would be best for the program for Bono to go elsewhere at this point. Not saying he is at total fault in the situation (no clue) but the situation has ruined the direction of the program and I don't think there is any way to recover.
In state recruiting would likely be a little better with Brandvold but he isn't going to land the AWA kids at much more of a consistency than Bono. Go with one of the Askrens or Becker if you want to secure the best talent in your home state. All of these guys can obviously coach a kid up but none of that is important if you don't get the talent in the door in the first place. The #1 priority has to be to start landing AWA wrestlers because that is where most of the D1 talent in the state is coming out of. I don't like what has happened with the negative recruiting against Wisconsin but the reality of the situation is that it isn't going to stop until a change is made.
So, Askren as the "king maker" (if not the king himself)? The power behind the throne? Hhhhmmm. Interesting scenario.
Honestly we would have the majority of these guys leaving on the UW team if he was the coach. Would we have Hamiti, Barnett, Gomez, etc? Not sure.
Quote from: wrastle63 on May 10, 2023, 10:19:16 AMQuote from: npope on May 10, 2023, 10:15:50 AMQuote from: Chedd on May 10, 2023, 09:28:51 AMThe Askren situation has killed Bono. It would be best for the program for Bono to go elsewhere at this point. Not saying he is at total fault in the situation (no clue) but the situation has ruined the direction of the program and I don't think there is any way to recover.
In state recruiting would likely be a little better with Brandvold but he isn't going to land the AWA kids at much more of a consistency than Bono. Go with one of the Askrens or Becker if you want to secure the best talent in your home state. All of these guys can obviously coach a kid up but none of that is important if you don't get the talent in the door in the first place. The #1 priority has to be to start landing AWA wrestlers because that is where most of the D1 talent in the state is coming out of. I don't like what has happened with the negative recruiting against Wisconsin but the reality of the situation is that it isn't going to stop until a change is made.
So, Askren as the "king maker" (if not the king himself)? The power behind the throne? Hhhhmmm. Interesting scenario.
Honestly we would have the majority of these guys leaving on the UW team if he was the coach. Would we have Hamiti, Barnett, Gomez, etc? Not sure.
Well, one option would be to elevate Jon Reader to head coach and bring in a Brandvold or Becker as the #2 guy (Becker would make twice as much money, so he might consider it, and Brandvold is the #3 guy and probably would get a nice pay bump too). The problem with the Bono and Reader duo is their strengths are pretty much duplicative--high energy, positive mindset, go-getters who preach the hustle, effort, attitude mantra. I don't think either is known for their prowess with teaching high end technique or match strategy that is where Brandvold and Becker excel. Plus Reader doesn't carry the personal baggage that Bono does and purportedly Ben likes Reader but dislikes Bono. Maybe Reader and Brandvold/Becker would repair the AWA relationship and start being able to recruit AWA while keeping Reader and perhaps Gross would secure Hamiti and Barnett stay and perhaps Gomez too.
Quote from: Grapl on May 10, 2023, 09:14:02 AMQuote from: wrestling for fun on May 09, 2023, 01:03:03 PMQuote from: Army Ant on May 09, 2023, 12:14:29 PMThe in-state recruiting is a huge problem. No excuse for what happened this year.
. Go ahead and fire him. Who's going to replace him?
Well, there is a certain severely underpaid assistant coach (compared to ours) nearby.
I'm assuming you mean Brandvold?
Yes, you assumed correctly. Someone who has a record of developing, recruiting, ties to the state and an infectious personality without ego. Just watching him work the room of parents and coaches at the AWA/Pinnacle event really stood out to me especially in contrast to Wisconsin's representation there.
Honestly there is only one coach that could come into Wisconsin at this point and have an immediate impact and put the team into the top 4 within 2 years.
NCAA Champion
CEO/CFO type of a person
Knows Wisconsin Wrestling like the back of his hand
Multiple Degrees
Get's along well with Ben
Could bring in an assistant at the level of a Jason Nolf
Is well respected
Interacts extremely well with WWF
Could possibly sway several past AA's to enter the portal next year
Quote from: hornbuckleb on May 10, 2023, 12:10:03 PMHonestly there is only one coach that could come into Wisconsin at this point and have an immediate impact and put the team into the top 4 within 2 years.
NCAA Champion
CEO/CFO type of a person
Knows Wisconsin Wrestling like the back of his hand
Multiple Degrees
Get's along well with Ben
Could bring in an assistant at the level of a Jason Nolf
Is well respected
Interacts extremely well with WWF
Could possibly sway several past AA's to enter the portal next year
Just say it.....Max Askren?
Quote from: Grapl on May 10, 2023, 01:12:14 PMQuote from: hornbuckleb on May 10, 2023, 12:10:03 PMHonestly there is only one coach that could come into Wisconsin at this point and have an immediate impact and put the team into the top 4 within 2 years.
NCAA Champion
CEO/CFO type of a person
Knows Wisconsin Wrestling like the back of his hand
Multiple Degrees
Get's along well with Ben
Could bring in an assistant at the level of a Jason Nolf
Is well respected
Interacts extremely well with WWF
Could possibly sway several past AA's to enter the portal next year
Just say it.....Max Askren?
Yep!
He absolutely has the potential to have an immediate impact.
Let's take it one more step now and include Ben into the mix, but with no affiliation with the Badgers.
So what would his role be then?
Hint: There is an enormous amount of cash for NIL along Interstates 43 and 94 that is ready to be plucked.
Would be all for Max. I'm not sure he brings the same level of excitement as his brother would but he also seems like a cooler head and more polished.
A coaching change is likely a few years away. I see Bono and company doing enough to tread water for the next few years. Him jumping ship would not surprise me though. He has to see the writing on the wall
Quote from: DocWrestling on May 09, 2023, 08:18:32 PMDon't kid yourself that the varsity collective is some booster club for all sports. If they started giving donated money to wrestlers then people would stop donating. As a donor/booster you have the choice what sport(s) you want to support. They ask.
To get NIL money to wrestlers it has to come directly from a donor that wants it to go to wrestlers. The overwhelming number of donors want their money to go to basketball and football. Then hockey and volleyball have some donors. Rest of sports are on their own
I'm not kidding myself. I don't think I said any different. I actually had a couple of lines in there about fans needing to open up the pocket books (a thousand fans giving a chunk of money annually does add up), but I decided I didn't want to open that can of worms. Why do Michigan and OSU have this secret trove of money that we apparently do not? They've got even more resources allocated to football than we do.
I remember Ben being on the board when the job was posting expressing Bono as the guy he could get behind (besides himself). Has it ever been made clear just how that relationship disintegrated? I know some things have bene alluded to, but I've never been able to piece together just how things seemed to fall apart so quickly. I'll take DMs if nobody wants to open that can of worms here!
Quote from: head57 on May 10, 2023, 02:30:24 PMI remember Ben being on the board when the job was posting expressing Bono as the guy he could get behind (besides himself). Has it ever been made clear just how that relationship disintegrated? I know some things have bene alluded to, but I've never been able to piece together just how things seemed to fall apart so quickly. I'll take DMs if nobody wants to open that can of worms here!
One side of the story is explained in a very nicely done wiwrestle Rofkin interview with Ben. Much of this issue is because there is a lack of communication from other side. Some of us would very much like the current to succeed but do not see a clear direction.
The Askren situation has killed Bono. It would be best for the program for Bono to go elsewhere at this point. Not saying he is at total fault in the situation (no clue) but the situation has ruined the direction of the program and I don't think there is any way to recover.
I have a great idea! UW should end the wrestling program in order to spite the Askrens (and any other anti-UW coaches club level or otherwise) and basically tell them since you are so determined to block us from recruiting your athletes, we're not going to waste any more money trying to keep competing in the sport we have no chance to do so. There! How 'bout that? Up Yours AWA! To paraphrase Nixon: "You won't have UW wrestling to kick around anymore".
Notice we're talking club coaches here. Whatever happened to the high school coach, hmm? Apparently they're just wallflowers at this point when it comes to influencing where these athletes sign for college.
"I'm assuming you mean Brandvold?"
"Yes, you assumed correctly. Someone who has a record of developing, recruiting, ties to the state and an infectious personality without ego. Just watching him work the room of parents and coaches at the AWA/Pinnacle event really stood out to me especially in contrast to Wisconsin's representation there.
I find it lovely some fans here now have high regard for Trevor Branvold because as it turns out HE WAS ON THE UW STAFF BEFORE! In fact some considered him BD's heir apparent. But of course we didn't want that at time. No sir! Complete break from the past, complete break from the winningest coach in UW history. We hired the hottest college coaching prospect around, paid him double what BD made and included his right-hand man and a kid he happened to coach to an NCAA title with a great personal story. And he still can't recruit? When is it going to sink in around here that it isn't the coach, it's what the coach has to work with, that's the problem. Here's the most intelligent thing I've read in this thread:
I don't have any expectations for UW-Madison as a power wrestling program. Just isn't going to happen, no matter who the coach is. Especially now w/ NIL. Go ahead and fire him. Who's going to replace him? You'll just get more of the same no matter who it is. If it's even possible, it will take SEVERAL years to turn this program around.
Unless of course that coach has been knighted by "The King of Wisconsin Wrestling".
"So, Askren as the "king maker" (if not the king himself)? The power behind the throne? Hhhhmmm. Interesting scenario."
Although I will say whoever advocated hiring Max had a momentary lapse of brilliance. I mean, Ben wouldn't find a way to hate on his brother if he became UW head coach, would he?
"The problem with the Bono and Reader duo is their strengths are pretty much duplicative--high energy, positive mindset, go-getters who preach the hustle, effort, attitude mantra. I don't think either is known for their prowess with teaching high end technique or match strategy that is where Brandvold and Becker excel. Plus Reader doesn't carry the personal baggage that Bono does and purportedly Ben likes Reader but dislikes Bono. Maybe Reader and Brandvold/Becker would repair the AWA relationship and start being able to recruit AWA while keeping Reader and perhaps Gross would secure Hamiti and Barnett stay and perhaps Gomez too.
Yes that's what Reader and Gross need to do, stage a coup. We're headed towards the booby hatch here.
"Its the Barry Davis era all over again."
Lord if that were only true. And even if it was, Barry is still the winningest coach in UW history like it or not. It's a disgrace the lack of respect Barry Davis gets around here and a good indication of the mindset of some of the people who call themselves Wisconsin wrestling "fans" have. If I were Bono I wouldn't just resign because I have no money to work with in comparison to the best schools in the country, I have a wrestling room with concrete pillars in it and the wrestling coaches outside the University put me down, it's because it doesn't matter what success you can earn at UW. If they can't treat right the school's winning coach who also Big Ten and Olympic champion wrestler, it means they don't respect anyone.
"Jake Sueflohn has spent quite a bit of time as an Assistant Coach at Purdue, has the AWA connection and Purdue is currently catching up to UW as a team and clearly doing better then UW regarding recruits. Their coaching staff is amazing."
What was UW's lone B1G win this season? 28-9 against Purdue with the great Jake Suefelon on the amazing coaching staff! Wake me when they finally finish seventh in the league standings.
"You guys don't want to hear it, but I will say it. You can only treat people poorly for so long. Before the places you have been to before and the people you have engaged with finally have a story to tell. And truthfully the story on Bono is not a good one. He isn't well liked among other coaches. He has been to three programs as a head coach and chased 75% of the athletes at each school he inherited away. Destroyed relationships with donors and friends the two previous locations. Has already begun to lose support here in this state. He uses people as a bridge to get what he wants. Bono lost me as a supporter his very first year. I won't go into detail. But that team needed a pillar someone to rally around after losing a teammate. He became their biggest obstacle. Don't believe me? Go talk to anyone that was on that team. (Of course, those guys are just pawns to some of you as well)"
Okay, you've just accused Bono of....what exactly? Not treating the Stickley family right? I mean what are you talking about? Hmmm? I'd like to know but, oh, alas, you won't go into detail for the rest of the class. Fine. Continue spouting.
Someone else also mentioned Bono also alienated people over the Wisconsin Wrestling Federation? I'm curious how you can possibly do that? in all seriousness. Everyone keeps saying "Ego! Ego! Ego!" in regards to Bono. Let the record show the yearning need on the Wisconsin Wrestling Forum for a little Barry Davis humility after it had been trashed for over decade. The grass isn't always greener on the other side I guess.
I don't know what else to say really because I've said it all before and in my most recent posts at the end of each season I don't wish to repeat myself. I guess I'll just have to work off everyone else's comments, dumb or otherwise.
That was a very long post. And I agree with most of it.
We were excited with the transition from Davis to Bono. That should have led to an influx of talent within the state, as it was before the beef between AWA and Bono started. It also should, in theory, have increased donor money and contributions. That didn't happen either.
Truth is, we want the coach to build a dynasty by themselves. You do it, and we will sit idly by and make demands.
Quote from: wrestlemania on May 12, 2023, 08:24:30 PMThe Askren situation has killed Bono. It would be best for the program for Bono to go elsewhere at this point. Not saying he is at total fault in the situation (no clue) but the situation has ruined the direction of the program and I don't think there is any way to recover.
I have a great idea! UW should end the wrestling program in order to spite the Askrens (and any other anti-UW coaches club level or otherwise) and basically tell them since you are so determined to block us from recruiting your athletes, we're not going to waste any more money trying to keep competing in the sport we have no chance to do so. There! How 'bout that? Up Yours AWA! To paraphrase Nixon: "You won't have UW wrestling to kick around anymore".
Notice we're talking club coaches here. Whatever happened to the high school coach, hmm? Apparently they're just wallflowers at this point when it comes to influencing where these athletes sign for college.
"I'm assuming you mean Brandvold?"
"Yes, you assumed correctly. Someone who has a record of developing, recruiting, ties to the state and an infectious personality without ego. Just watching him work the room of parents and coaches at the AWA/Pinnacle event really stood out to me especially in contrast to Wisconsin's representation there.
I find it lovely some fans here now have high regard for Trevor Branvold because as it turns out HE WAS ON THE UW STAFF BEFORE! In fact some considered him BD's heir apparent. But of course we didn't want that at time. No sir! Complete break from the past, complete break from the winningest coach in UW history. We hired the hottest college coaching prospect around, paid him double what BD made and included his right-hand man and a kid he happened to coach to an NCAA title with a great personal story. And he still can't recruit? When is it going to sink in around here that it isn't the coach, it's what the coach has to work with, that's the problem. Here's the most intelligent thing I've read in this thread:
I don't have any expectations for UW-Madison as a power wrestling program. Just isn't going to happen, no matter who the coach is. Especially now w/ NIL. Go ahead and fire him. Who's going to replace him? You'll just get more of the same no matter who it is. If it's even possible, it will take SEVERAL years to turn this program around.
Unless of course that coach has been knighted by "The King of Wisconsin Wrestling".
"So, Askren as the "king maker" (if not the king himself)? The power behind the throne? Hhhhmmm. Interesting scenario."
Although I will say whoever advocated hiring Max had a momentary lapse of brilliance. I mean, Ben wouldn't find a way to hate on his brother if he became UW head coach, would he?
"The problem with the Bono and Reader duo is their strengths are pretty much duplicative--high energy, positive mindset, go-getters who preach the hustle, effort, attitude mantra. I don't think either is known for their prowess with teaching high end technique or match strategy that is where Brandvold and Becker excel. Plus Reader doesn't carry the personal baggage that Bono does and purportedly Ben likes Reader but dislikes Bono. Maybe Reader and Brandvold/Becker would repair the AWA relationship and start being able to recruit AWA while keeping Reader and perhaps Gross would secure Hamiti and Barnett stay and perhaps Gomez too.
Yes that's what Reader and Gross need to do, stage a coup. We're headed towards the booby hatch here.
"Its the Barry Davis era all over again."
Lord if that were only true. And even if it was, Barry is still the winningest coach in UW history like it or not. It's a disgrace the lack of respect Barry Davis gets around here and a good indication of the mindset of some of the people who call themselves Wisconsin wrestling "fans" have. If I were Bono I wouldn't just resign because I have no money to work with in comparison to the best schools in the country, I have a wrestling room with concrete pillars in it and the wrestling coaches outside the University put me down, it's because it doesn't matter what success you can earn at UW. If they can't treat right the school's winning coach who also Big Ten and Olympic champion wrestler, it means they don't respect anyone.
"Jake Sueflohn has spent quite a bit of time as an Assistant Coach at Purdue, has the AWA connection and Purdue is currently catching up to UW as a team and clearly doing better then UW regarding recruits. Their coaching staff is amazing."
What was UW's lone B1G win this season? 28-9 against Purdue with the great Jake Suefelon on the amazing coaching staff! Wake me when they finally finish seventh in the league standings.
"You guys don't want to hear it, but I will say it. You can only treat people poorly for so long. Before the places you have been to before and the people you have engaged with finally have a story to tell. And truthfully the story on Bono is not a good one. He isn't well liked among other coaches. He has been to three programs as a head coach and chased 75% of the athletes at each school he inherited away. Destroyed relationships with donors and friends the two previous locations. Has already begun to lose support here in this state. He uses people as a bridge to get what he wants. Bono lost me as a supporter his very first year. I won't go into detail. But that team needed a pillar someone to rally around after losing a teammate. He became their biggest obstacle. Don't believe me? Go talk to anyone that was on that team. (Of course, those guys are just pawns to some of you as well)"
Okay, you've just accused Bono of....what exactly? Not treating the Stickley family right? I mean what are you talking about? Hmmm? I'd like to know but, oh, alas, you won't go into detail for the rest of the class. Fine. Continue spouting.
Someone else also mentioned Bono also alienated people over the Wisconsin Wrestling Federation? I'm curious how you can possibly do that? in all seriousness. Everyone keeps saying "Ego! Ego! Ego!" in regards to Bono. Let the record show the yearning need on the Wisconsin Wrestling Forum for a little Barry Davis humility after it had been trashed for over decade. The grass isn't always greener on the other side I guess.
I don't know what else to say really because I've said it all before and in my most recent posts at the end of each season I don't wish to repeat myself. I guess I'll just have to work off everyone else's comments, dumb or otherwise.
I dwell on this to much but here it goes. Bono and Reader were at new Richmond last summer for a camp and the fargo team camp was in river falls at the same time. 20 minutes apart at the most and Bono couldn't drop by the fargo team camp. I found that not a smart move on Bono part not to stop by the state camp. Every other d1 state coach went to their states camps but bono was the lone hold out.
Badgers are ranked 14th in duals and 11th in tournament polls per wrestlestat.
Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on May 14, 2023, 03:00:53 PMBadgers are ranked 14th in duals and 11th in tournament polls per wrestlestat.
FYI - This has not been updated since Gomez announced he wasn't coming back. Has Gomez as starter at 149 and Scharenbrock at 157.
Quote from: hornbuckleb on May 10, 2023, 12:10:03 PMHonestly there is only one coach that could come into Wisconsin at this point and have an immediate impact and put the team into the top 4 within 2 years.
NCAA Champion
CEO/CFO type of a person
Knows Wisconsin Wrestling like the back of his hand
Multiple Degrees
Get's along well with Ben
Could bring in an assistant at the level of a Jason Nolf
Is well respected
Interacts extremely well with WWF
Could possibly sway several past AA's to enter the portal next year
Not bad but how about these qualifications for the Head Coach at Wisconsin:
3x NCAA All-American
NCAA champion
NWCA assistant coach of the year
2x US National champion
2x World Cup champion
3x World team member
Has two NCAA champions and world team members as assistant coaches
CEO/CFO type multiple Division 1 wrestling programs
Head Coach of an NCAA national champ and multiple AAs
National Wrestling Hall of Fame member
Interacts extremely well with WWF and state high school coaches
Has landed past AA's in the transfer portal
Quote from: Chedd on May 10, 2023, 09:28:51 AMThe Askren situation has killed Bono. It would be best for the program for Bono to go elsewhere at this point. Not saying he is at total fault in the situation (no clue) but the situation has ruined the direction of the program and I don't think there is any way to recover.
In state recruiting would likely be a little better with Brandvold but he isn't going to land the AWA kids at much more of a consistency than Bono. Go with one of the Askrens or Becker if you want to secure the best talent in your home state. All of these guys can obviously coach a kid up but none of that is important if you don't get the talent in the door in the first place. The #1 priority has to be to start landing AWA wrestlers because that is where most of the D1 talent in the state is coming out of. I don't like what has happened with the negative recruiting against Wisconsin but the reality of the situation is that it isn't going to stop until a change is made.
What am I missing here? AWA is a nice youth/U17 program and has elevated the quality of wrestling within the state of Wisconsin. Something I think we all can agree on.
However, from an NCAA Division 1 perspective, AWA has done very little over the last decade. There has been just 3 guys that has reached the podium at the NCAA tournament. There has only been 7 AA's which comes to <1% of the total AA's possible. A nice club yes. A great or elite club, not so much. Not a club that will help UW in the quest to becoming a Top 10 team nationally
Now to be fair, AWA does seem to be trending in the right direction but let's see how it plays out over the next 5 years
Novice, I think you're missing a lot. Saying AWA isn't a great or elite club is crazy. It's hard to believe your average nice clubs having 10-15 kids in the wrestling room that are going to top division 1 colleges for wrestling. If you don't think by having these kids at Wisconsin won't help them being in the top 10 is crazier. I'm pretty sure you don't go to Penn State being an average wrestler or just going to the just nice clubs.
So every kid that goes D1 has to win a national championship, for that club to be an elite club?
Quote from: novice wrestler on May 15, 2023, 08:38:34 AMQuote from: hornbuckleb on May 10, 2023, 12:10:03 PMHonestly there is only one coach that could come into Wisconsin at this point and have an immediate impact and put the team into the top 4 within 2 years.
NCAA Champion
CEO/CFO type of a person
Knows Wisconsin Wrestling like the back of his hand
Multiple Degrees
Get's along well with Ben
Could bring in an assistant at the level of a Jason Nolf
Is well respected
Interacts extremely well with WWF
Could possibly sway several past AA's to enter the portal next year
Not bad but how about these qualifications for the Head Coach at Wisconsin:
3x NCAA All-American
NCAA champion
NWCA assistant coach of the year
2x US National champion
2x World Cup champion
3x World team member
Has two NCAA champions and world team members as assistant coaches
CEO/CFO type multiple Division 1 wrestling programs
Head Coach of an NCAA national champ and multiple AAs
National Wrestling Hall of Fame member
Interacts extremely well with WWF and state high school coaches
Has landed past AA's in the transfer portal
So top 4 Team in 2 years then? Correct :-X
Quote from: hornbuckleb on May 15, 2023, 03:45:46 PMQuote from: novice wrestler on May 15, 2023, 08:38:34 AMQuote from: hornbuckleb on May 10, 2023, 12:10:03 PMHonestly there is only one coach that could come into Wisconsin at this point and have an immediate impact and put the team into the top 4 within 2 years.
NCAA Champion
CEO/CFO type of a person
Knows Wisconsin Wrestling like the back of his hand
Multiple Degrees
Get's along well with Ben
Could bring in an assistant at the level of a Jason Nolf
Is well respected
Interacts extremely well with WWF
Could possibly sway several past AA's to enter the portal next year
Not bad but how about these qualifications for the Head Coach at Wisconsin:
3x NCAA All-American
NCAA champion
NWCA assistant coach of the year
2x US National champion
2x World Cup champion
3x World team member
Has two NCAA champions and world team members as assistant coaches
CEO/CFO type multiple Division 1 wrestling programs
Head Coach of an NCAA national champ and multiple AAs
National Wrestling Hall of Fame member
Interacts extremely well with WWF and state high school coaches
Has landed past AA's in the transfer portal
So top 4 Team in 2 years then? Correct :-X
Just comparing resumes that all. You are the one stating your guy on paper would have an immediate impact. Not sure how you came to that assumption though
Quote from: WrestlerSB80 on May 15, 2023, 09:23:03 AMNovice, I think you're missing a lot. Saying AWA isn't a great or elite club is crazy. It's hard to believe your average nice clubs having 10-15 kids in the wrestling room that are going to top division 1 colleges for wrestling. If you don't think by having these kids at Wisconsin won't help them being in the top 10 is crazier. I'm pretty sure you don't go to Penn State being an average wrestler or just going to the just nice clubs.
So every kid that goes D1 has to win a national championship, for that club to be an elite club?
Let me clarify this for you. On the state level or maybe even regional level, AWA is a elite club. On the national level, it is a good program. There are at least 2-3 youth training centers in NJ, PA that have more elite/D1 AAs that AWA. Take that along with 1-2 youth training centers in NY, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa not to mention some in Minnesota etc that have more success on the D1 level.
AWA national is not a top 10 program, probably more of a 15-20 top program. AWA is good and that is nothing to be ashamed of. They have good coaches that work hard and have had some success. AWA is trending to have more D1 AA success in the future
The main point I am trying to make is that AWA nationally is no better or worse than UW wrestling has been nationally, yet so many folks act like AWA is so superior. The facts over the last 10 years just don't show that. Just wish the Askern's would stop with the negative attacks on the UW program and coaches. They really don't have the national record to stand on.
Quote from: novice wrestler on May 16, 2023, 09:20:03 AMLet me clarify this for you. On the state level or maybe even regional level, AWA is a elite club. On the national level, it is a good program. There are at least 2-3 youth training centers in NJ, PA that have more elite/D1 AAs that AWA. Take that along with 1-2 youth training centers in NY, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa not to mention some in Minnesota etc that have more success on the D1 level.
AWA national is not a top 10 program, probably more of a 15-20 top program. AWA is good and that is nothing to be ashamed of. They have good coaches that work hard and have had some success. AWA is trending to have more D1 AA success in the future
The main point I am trying to make is that AWA nationally is no better or worse than UW wrestling has been nationally, yet so many folks act like AWA is so superior. The facts over the last 10 years just don't show that. Just wish the Askern's would stop with the negative attacks on the UW program and coaches. They really don't have the national record to stand on.
Did you happen to watch last years Fargo, U16 Duals, Junior Duals, Junior World Championship's, D1/D2/D3 NCAA's or the US Open? I would recommend you watch these prior to saying that AWA is "not" an elite club.
Quote from: novice wrestler on May 16, 2023, 09:01:32 AMQuote from: hornbuckleb on May 15, 2023, 03:45:46 PMQuote from: novice wrestler on May 15, 2023, 08:38:34 AMQuote from: hornbuckleb on May 10, 2023, 12:10:03 PMHonestly there is only one coach that could come into Wisconsin at this point and have an immediate impact and put the team into the top 4 within 2 years.
NCAA Champion
CEO/CFO type of a person
Knows Wisconsin Wrestling like the back of his hand
Multiple Degrees
Get's along well with Ben
Could bring in an assistant at the level of a Jason Nolf
Is well respected
Interacts extremely well with WWF
Could possibly sway several past AA's to enter the portal next year
Not bad but how about these qualifications for the Head Coach at Wisconsin:
3x NCAA All-American
NCAA champion
NWCA assistant coach of the year
2x US National champion
2x World Cup champion
3x World team member
Has two NCAA champions and world team members as assistant coaches
CEO/CFO type multiple Division 1 wrestling programs
Head Coach of an NCAA national champ and multiple AAs
National Wrestling Hall of Fame member
Interacts extremely well with WWF and state high school coaches
Has landed past AA's in the transfer portal
So top 4 Team in 2 years then? Correct :-X
Just comparing resumes that all. You are the one stating your guy on paper would have an immediate impact. Not sure how you came to that assumption though
You are right, it is just an assumption with no guarantees, and I am in no way saying that Bono is not a guy that couldn't right the ship yet, but if there was a new coach brought in my pick would be Max. Not because he is a flashy pick, but because he is highly intelligent, can develop wrestlers and has that "X" factor that could make Wisconsin the place to be. I also think you would see quite a few Wisconsinites in the portal soon thereafter.
So that's my assumption, but you know what happens when you assume, it makes an inappropriate term out of u and me ;)
If resumes actually were the deciding factor why would we ever have gotten rid of:
Davis' Career Highlights
1983 Pan-Am Gold Medalist
1983 World Team Member
Two-time Olympian (Los Angeles, 1984 & Seoul, South Korea, 1988)
1984 Olympic Silver Medalist at 125.5 lbs.
Three-time NCAA champion (1982, `83, `85)
Four-time All-American
One of nine wrestlers to win four Big Ten titles
1985 Big Ten Conference Athlete of the Year
Member of the National Iowa Varsity Club Athletic Hall of Fame
1986 World Bronze Medalist
1987 World Silver Medalist
Coached eight Big Ten champions (Trevor Brandvold, Keith Davison, Matt Hanutke, Eric Jetton, Donny Pritzlaff, Kevin Wilmot, Tom Clum and Andrew Howe)
Coached 22 All-Americans (Kevin Black, Tony Black, Trevor Brandvold, Kole Clauson, Tom Clum, Keith Davison, Ryan Flaherty, Tyler Graff, Matt Hanutke, Craig Henning, Dallas Herbst, Grant Hoerr, Andrew Howe, Eric Jetton, Kyle Massey, Donny Pritzlaff, Kyle Ruschell, Zach Tanelli, Tyler Turner, Cory Wallman, Kevin Wilmot and Jeff Walter)
Coached three NCAA champions (Andrew Howe, Donny Pritzlaff, Jeff Walter)
Coached 63 wrestlers to a total of 91 NCAA appearances in 16 seasons at Wisconsin
Recognized by National Wrestling Hall of Fame as 2007 Distinguished Member
Has the second-most wins of any Badger coach and reached the 150-win milestone during the 2007-08 season.
NWCA National Coach of the Year in 2010
Helped Badgers tie for best finish in school history in 2010 when Wisconsin placed fourth at the NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships
Quote from: novice wrestler on May 16, 2023, 09:20:03 AMQuote from: WrestlerSB80 on May 15, 2023, 09:23:03 AMNovice, I think you're missing a lot. Saying AWA isn't a great or elite club is crazy. It's hard to believe your average nice clubs having 10-15 kids in the wrestling room that are going to top division 1 colleges for wrestling. If you don't think by having these kids at Wisconsin won't help them being in the top 10 is crazier. I'm pretty sure you don't go to Penn State being an average wrestler or just going to the just nice clubs.
So every kid that goes D1 has to win a national championship, for that club to be an elite club?
Let me clarify this for you. On the state level or maybe even regional level, AWA is a elite club. On the national level, it is a good program. There are at least 2-3 youth training centers in NJ, PA that have more elite/D1 AAs that AWA. Take that along with 1-2 youth training centers in NY, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa not to mention some in Minnesota etc that have more success on the D1 level.
AWA national is not a top 10 program, probably more of a 15-20 top program. AWA is good and that is nothing to be ashamed of. They have good coaches that work hard and have had some success. AWA is trending to have more D1 AA success in the future
The main point I am trying to make is that AWA nationally is no better or worse than UW wrestling has been nationally, yet so many folks act like AWA is so superior. The facts over the last 10 years just don't show that. Just wish the Askern's would stop with the negative attacks on the UW program and coaches. They really don't have the national record to stand on.
I don't know all the details but I do agree that I wish the negative attacks would stop. It isn't a good look for anybody involved.
AWA does have the national record to stand on and are definitely on the rise nationally. The problem with comparing AWA to those other clubs/training centers in other states is that UW can't really look at those other clubs as potential feeder programs like they could with a top 10 club in their own backyard.
Novice, you are a moron!
Here are some stats for you
NCAA Points
2021- AWA- 32.5. Badgers 18.5
2022- AWA- 42. Badgers 38.5
2023- AWA- 46. Badgers 29
Now this was all done without the help of scholarships or recruiting. We have 3 AAs from within a 20 minute radius of each other(Glendale, West Allis, Merton) who started with use before 6th grade. Not like Blair or Sem or other HSs that recruit from all over america, but from a very small geographic region in southern Wisconsin. The fact that you find this to be unimpressive just shows how deep your bias goes.
As I have previously stated the AWA Points number will likely only grow over the next few years as we have built a system that is producing a large amount of really high caliber D1 recruits. In fact we just won the U20 Freestyle division in Vegas last month.
I know there will always be haters, but I think it is time some of you stubborn old bastards jump aboard this train. It has left the station, is picking up speed and either you can jump on and enjoy the ride or just continue to cry as we keep on crushing it over the next few decades by helping thousands of kids from Wisconsin be the best they can be.
Ben I noticed WI overall didn't seem to do nearly as well in u17 and u15, unless I'm mistaken. Did u just not send as many at those younger levels?
Quote from: benaskren on May 16, 2023, 12:36:54 PMNovice, you are a moron!
Here are some stats for you
NCAA Points
2021- AWA- 32.5. Badgers 18.5
2022- AWA- 42. Badgers 38.5
2023- AWA- 46. Badgers 29
Now this was all done without the help of scholarships or recruiting. We have 3 AAs from within a 20 minute radius of each other(Glendale, West Allis, Merton) who started with use before 6th grade. Not like Blair or Sem or other HSs that recruit from all over america, but from a very small geographic region in southern Wisconsin. The fact that you find this to be unimpressive just shows how deep your bias goes.
As I have previously stated the AWA Points number will likely only grow over the next few years as we have built a system that is producing a large amount of really high caliber D1 recruits. In fact we just won the U20 Freestyle division in Vegas last month.
I know there will always be haters, but I think it is time some of you stubborn old bastards jump aboard this train. It has left the station, is picking up speed and either you can jump on and enjoy the ride or just continue to cry as we keep on crushing it over the next few decades by helping thousands of kids from Wisconsin be the best they can be.
When are you going to open something up in the North Central part of the State, little to no clubs North of Point/Rapids, lot of people waiting for something to open in the Wausau area or even farther North
Thanks
Quote from: benaskren on May 16, 2023, 12:36:54 PMNovice, you are a moron!
Here are some stats for you
NCAA Points
2021- AWA- 32.5. Badgers 18.5
2022- AWA- 42. Badgers 38.5
2023- AWA- 46. Badgers 29
Now this was all done without the help of scholarships or recruiting. We have 3 AAs from within a 20 minute radius of each other(Glendale, West Allis, Merton) who started with use before 6th grade. Not like Blair or Sem or other HSs that recruit from all over america, but from a very small geographic region in southern Wisconsin. The fact that you find this to be unimpressive just shows how deep your bias goes.
As I have previously stated the AWA Points number will likely only grow over the next few years as we have built a system that is producing a large amount of really high caliber D1 recruits. In fact we just won the U20 Freestyle division in Vegas last month.
I know there will always be haters, but I think it is time some of you stubborn old bastards jump aboard this train. It has left the station, is picking up speed and either you can jump on and enjoy the ride or just continue to cry as we keep on crushing it over the next few decades by helping thousands of kids from Wisconsin be the best they can be.
Not bad at all. Actually pretty good if you ask me.
Quote from: benaskren on May 16, 2023, 12:36:54 PMNovice, you are a moron!
Here are some stats for you
NCAA Points
2021- AWA- 32.5. Badgers 18.5
2022- AWA- 42. Badgers 38.5
2023- AWA- 46. Badgers 29
Now this was all done without the help of scholarships or recruiting. We have 3 AAs from within a 20 minute radius of each other(Glendale, West Allis, Merton) who started with use before 6th grade. Not like Blair or Sem or other HSs that recruit from all over america, but from a very small geographic region in southern Wisconsin. The fact that you find this to be unimpressive just shows how deep your bias goes.
As I have previously stated the AWA Points number will likely only grow over the next few years as we have built a system that is producing a large amount of really high caliber D1 recruits. In fact we just won the U20 Freestyle division in Vegas last month.
I know there will always be haters, but I think it is time some of you stubborn old bastards jump aboard this train. It has left the station, is picking up speed and either you can jump on and enjoy the ride or just continue to cry as we keep on crushing it over the next few decades by helping thousands of kids from Wisconsin be the best they can be.
I hope you realize that people in general are connected to the university in varying ways and will always care for UW wrestling in a way that they could never care for a club program (outside of the few who may have a child in the club program). "Get on board" isn't happening for most unless the success of AWA means something for the program we support and hope to see excel.
That doesn't mean there's any ill will at all. You guys have a good thing going.
Quote from: benaskren on May 16, 2023, 12:36:54 PMNovice, you are a moron!
Here are some stats for you
NCAA Points
2021- AWA- 32.5. Badgers 18.5
2022- AWA- 42. Badgers 38.5
2023- AWA- 46. Badgers 29
Now this was all done without the help of scholarships or recruiting. We have 3 AAs from within a 20 minute radius of each other(Glendale, West Allis, Merton) who started with use before 6th grade. Not like Blair or Sem or other HSs that recruit from all over america, but from a very small geographic region in southern Wisconsin. The fact that you find this to be unimpressive just shows how deep your bias goes.
As I have previously stated the AWA Points number will likely only grow over the next few years as we have built a system that is producing a large amount of really high caliber D1 recruits. In fact we just won the U20 Freestyle division in Vegas last month.
I know there will always be haters, but I think it is time some of you stubborn old bastards jump aboard this train. It has left the station, is picking up speed and either you can jump on and enjoy the ride or just continue to cry as we keep on crushing it over the next few decades by helping thousands of kids from Wisconsin be the best they can be.
Count this stubborn ol' bastard on board. Wasn't always the case. I remember parents not wanting to send kids to Askren camps because they thought it would be a lot of goofing around.
With one of the main bitches about Bono being he can not recruit elite instate talent, and Novice says AWA would help very little, where or which clubs should Bono draw the instate talent? By comparing the number of AAs in a club to a big ten school is kind of dumb. What are the stats comparing other Wisconsin clubs to AWA?
So Wisconsin high school 2024 grads at the top of the recruiting list have made verbal commitments. Who are the next tier 2024 recruits that have yet to verbal?
Wow...the Narcissism (excessive interest in or admiration of oneself) of BA is ridiculous. In Vegas all of those kids represented not only AWA, but their hometown programs, and more important Wisconsin. No matter who the Badger coach is...it will not work between AWA and the Badgers unless an Askren is in charge.
Crass trained has done pretty good. Joles, Buchanan and sonnets going to Wyoming. Plus a few I just cannt think of or forgot.
There is more that just AWA in wisconsin. Crass trained, victory, pinnacle and others around the state that are doing well turning out college level talent.
To place blame solely that AWA isn't working with the badgers, doesn't look like other clubs are putting kids in the badger room hand over fist!
Littleguy? I agree 100% with what you said, I don't hear any complaints about the Crass kids not going to Wisconsin. Those kids are hammers.
Quote from: Army Ant on May 16, 2023, 01:19:34 PMBen I noticed WI overall didn't seem to do nearly as well in u17 and u15, unless I'm mistaken. Did u just not send as many at those younger levels?
Bump
Quote from: WrestlerSB80 on May 17, 2023, 12:29:41 PMLittleguy? I agree 100% with what you said, I don't hear any complaints about the Crass kids not going to Wisconsin. Those kids are hammers.
Why don't the Crass kids go to Wisconsin?
Getting in state talent is a bit overrated in wrestling. Look at all the top teams, they recruit nationally. You only have 9.9 scholarships and you need a big 10 level wrestler at 10 weights. As a result, teams focus on weights they have needs at, which results in more in state guys going elsewhere at all colleges.
The problem is not Bono can't recruit WI kids. The problem is Bono can't any top kids.
"In fact we just won the U20 Freestyle division in Vegas last month."
Are we supposed to be impressed by this? In 20 years, if one asks one could easily find out who won the NCAA championship or a high school team title. In 20 years will we know or remember who won the U20 Freestyle Division in Vegas?
I know there will always be haters, but I think it is time some of you stubborn old bastards jump aboard this train. It has left the station, is picking up speed and either you can jump on and enjoy the ride or just continue to cry as we keep on crushing it over the next few decades by helping thousands of kids from Wisconsin be the best they can be.
I nominate myself as President of the "Stubborn Old Bastards" Club and if you PM me to join the club I'll find you an official T-shirt to wear ;)
Alright, the train has left the station. So where is it going? What exactly are you crushing? Is their a national championship for club programs? I've must have missed it. Is our erstwhile "Bag of Milk" just touting success for AWA members in NCAA competition? Bully for them but why would this matter or what's the point of comparing it to UW?
Ben Askren is really good at what he does and his students benefit greatly from what he does.
Having stated this, Wrestlemania makes good point saying "Bully for them but why would this matter or what's the point of comparing it to UW?".
The stats comparing UW points to AWA points are indicative of little. There are colleges that compare favorably and unfavorably using the same measuring stick.
There are other states where a club in that state compares favorably or unfavorably with that state's DI college or colleges.
States with varying numbers of private clubs and varying numbers of DI programs makes this kind of comparison moot.
In addition, private clubs are developing youth/high school wrestlers. DI programs are much less developmental, they are 99% about recruiting.
Army Ant- We had our 2nd best showing ever and would have been close to best ever if Kellen had not been injured 1st round.
Harley- You arent gonna have to wait very long.
Quote from: benaskren on May 17, 2023, 10:31:23 PMArmy Ant- We had our 2nd best showing ever and would have been close to best ever if Kellen had not been injured 1st round.
Harley- You arent gonna have to wait very long.
That is AWESOME, I hope we have the same definition of NORTh!!
Bono's recruiting problems aren't just with the AWA apparently, they're with clubs all over the state. As I've said before, the high school coach and the high school program is becoming an anachorism when it comes to recruiting nowadays and isn't just in wrestling. The same is true in a lot of different HS sports as college coaches recruit athletes based on what they do in AAU or JO or in clubs because it's where the elite players gather. I mean, parents pay a lot of money to have their kids compete in these organization for the elite. With high school, for the want of some small fees, you basically get everyone else, so college coaches look elsewhere to judge. I wonder if Bono has not made this adjustment yet and as a result, has needlessly alienated a lot people in state who could help him.
Ponder this too: If I was a coach of top college program, I would make sure my donors kick-in some of their money to these clubs to fund their activities. For the coach it's a way of maintaining access to the top performers and for the donors it's a way to help out the program and get a tax write-off to boot.
Quote from: benaskren on May 16, 2023, 12:36:54 PMNovice, you are a moron!
Here are some stats for you
NCAA Points
2021- AWA- 32.5. Badgers 18.5
2022- AWA- 42. Badgers 38.5
2023- AWA- 46. Badgers 29
Now this was all done without the help of scholarships or recruiting. We have 3 AAs from within a 20 minute radius of each other(Glendale, West Allis, Merton) who started with use before 6th grade. Not like Blair or Sem or other HSs that recruit from all over america, but from a very small geographic region in southern Wisconsin. The fact that you find this to be unimpressive just shows how deep your bias goes.
As I have previously stated the AWA Points number will likely only grow over the next few years as we have built a system that is producing a large amount of really high caliber D1 recruits. In fact we just won the U20 Freestyle division in Vegas last month.
I know there will always be haters, but I think it is time some of you stubborn old bastards jump aboard this train. It has left the station, is picking up speed and either you can jump on and enjoy the ride or just continue to cry as we keep on crushing it over the next few decades by helping thousands of kids from Wisconsin be the best they can be.
Thanks for the compliment and your response Ben, you helped prove the point I am trying to make. Your reply (and a few of your cohorts) to a person with a different viewpoint is to call them names and haters. The truth is that I have nothing against you, I don't even know you. I also have no ill will against AWA. I actually love to watch HS guys who also attend your club wrestle!
There are a large percentage of UW supporters who would just like you to dial down the rhetoric that you have been displaying over the last 10 years. Often things starts with showing just a little more humility, a modest or low view of one's own importance. Liked minded people can understand the importance of being positive especially in the time of adversity. I think we all can agree on that a positive relationship with UW and AWA would really help wrestling in the state of Wisconsin. This is the end game, nothing more
Quote from: benaskren on May 17, 2023, 10:31:23 PMArmy Ant- We had our 2nd best showing ever and would have been close to best ever if Kellen had not been injured 1st round.
Harley- You arent gonna have to wait very long.
Sounds good. I like to see WI natives succeed.
Quote from: novice wrestler on May 22, 2023, 09:10:55 AMQuote from: benaskren on May 16, 2023, 12:36:54 PMNovice, you are a moron!
Here are some stats for you
NCAA Points
2021- AWA- 32.5. Badgers 18.5
2022- AWA- 42. Badgers 38.5
2023- AWA- 46. Badgers 29
Now this was all done without the help of scholarships or recruiting. We have 3 AAs from within a 20 minute radius of each other(Glendale, West Allis, Merton) who started with use before 6th grade. Not like Blair or Sem or other HSs that recruit from all over america, but from a very small geographic region in southern Wisconsin. The fact that you find this to be unimpressive just shows how deep your bias goes.
As I have previously stated the AWA Points number will likely only grow over the next few years as we have built a system that is producing a large amount of really high caliber D1 recruits. In fact we just won the U20 Freestyle division in Vegas last month.
I know there will always be haters, but I think it is time some of you stubborn old bastards jump aboard this train. It has left the station, is picking up speed and either you can jump on and enjoy the ride or just continue to cry as we keep on crushing it over the next few decades by helping thousands of kids from Wisconsin be the best they can be.
Thanks for the compliment and your response Ben, you helped prove the point I am trying to make. Your reply (and a few of your cohorts) to a person with a different viewpoint is to call them names and haters. The truth is that I have nothing against you, I don't even know you. I also have no ill will against AWA. I actually love to watch HS guys who also attend your club wrestle!
There are a large percentage of UW supporters who would just like you to dial down the rhetoric that you have been displaying over the last 10 years. Often things starts with showing just a little more humility, a modest or low view of one's own importance. Liked minded people can understand the importance of being positive especially in the time of adversity. I think we all can agree on that a positive relationship with UW and AWA would really help wrestling in the state of Wisconsin. This is the end game, nothing more
I think the onus is on the UW coaching staff to meet any clubs more than half way. The clubs (e.g. AWA) can help UW-Madison a lot more than vice-versa. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes but if Bono isn't reaching out to these folks than they deserve whatever they get.
Is Barnett leaving also? if so, what the Heck is going on out there!
Quote from: wrestler_73 on May 23, 2023, 03:16:34 PMIs Barnett leaving also? if so, what the Heck is going on out there!
That would be strange. He was just in the corner with Reader coaching Gross at the World Team Trials Challenge Tournament.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on May 23, 2023, 03:58:20 PMQuote from: wrestler_73 on May 23, 2023, 03:16:34 PMIs Barnett leaving also? if so, what the Heck is going on out there!
That would be strange. He was just in the corner with Reader coaching Gross at the World Team Trials Challenge Tournament.
Going to be strange when Eric hosts the coaches in Hortonville on June 8th for a meet and greet.
Quote from: walden_hiker on May 23, 2023, 06:43:22 PMQuote from: wrestler_73 on May 23, 2023, 03:16:34 PMIs Barnett leaving also? if so, what the Heck is going on out there!
This off-season keeps getting worse. I wonder where he ends up.
Where have you seen him leaving? An anonymous poster asking if he is leaving, vs social media posts from he and the coaches promoting his camps and meet and greet.
Looking at his Twitter, it seems unlikely. He just tweeted he's open for private lessons in the Madison area.
Cue Leo DiCaprio...
Yeah, he must've entered the portal under a fake name before the 5/7 drop dead date. ::)
Quote from: bigoil on May 23, 2023, 06:34:21 PMQuote from: vsmf2010 on May 23, 2023, 03:58:20 PMQuote from: wrestler_73 on May 23, 2023, 03:16:34 PMIs Barnett leaving also? if so, what the Heck is going on out there!
That would be strange. He was just in the corner with Reader coaching Gross at the World Team Trials Challenge Tournament.
Going to be strange when Eric hosts the coaches in Hortonville on June 8th for a meet and greet.
Very nice! hope it is a good meet and greet!
Quote from: wrestler_73 on May 17, 2023, 08:23:23 AMWow...the Narcissism (excessive interest in or admiration of oneself) of BA is ridiculous. In Vegas all of those kids represented not only AWA, but their hometown programs, and more important Wisconsin. No matter who the Badger coach is...it will not work between AWA and the Badgers unless an Askren is in charge.
I wonder if that's why John Messenbrink doesn't seem to be a part of AWA any longer?
I think you pretty much nailed it here though. It's either got to be Askren, or someone who gets handpicked by Askren.
I understand the fandom. He made himself into an...extraordinary Wrestler despite limited athleticism. He did that all through creativity and an incredible work ethic. He even turned that into a...pretty successful UFC run.
But a B1G program isn't going to cater to ONE individual when determining who to hire because they run 6 sites that attract most of the high end in-state talent.
I can bet that Ben and Max talk to alot of head coaches to the point I bet alot of AD knows who Ben and Max are.
I would think if the Badgers are looking for a head coach I would think any school and the committee that is formed probably would have Ben or Max involved in a coach search.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on May 31, 2023, 04:21:56 PMQuote from: wrestler_73 on May 17, 2023, 08:23:23 AMWow...the Narcissism (excessive interest in or admiration of oneself) of BA is ridiculous. In Vegas all of those kids represented not only AWA, but their hometown programs, and more important Wisconsin. No matter who the Badger coach is...it will not work between AWA and the Badgers unless an Askren is in charge.
I wonder if that's why John Messenbrink doesn't seem to be a part of AWA any longer?
Please elaborate?
Quote from: Vir Fortis on May 31, 2023, 04:21:56 PMQuote from: wrestler_73 on May 17, 2023, 08:23:23 AMWow...the Narcissism (excessive interest in or admiration of oneself) of BA is ridiculous. In Vegas all of those kids represented not only AWA, but their hometown programs, and more important Wisconsin. No matter who the Badger coach is...it will not work between AWA and the Badgers unless an Askren is in charge.
I wonder if that's why John Messenbrink doesn't seem to be a part of AWA any longer?
I think you pretty much nailed it here though. It's either got to be Askren, or someone who gets handpicked by Askren.
I understand the fandom. He made himself into an...extraordinary Wrestler despite limited athleticism. He did that all through creativity and an incredible work ethic. He even turned that into a...pretty successful UFC run.
But a B1G program isn't going to cater to ONE individual when determining who to hire because they run 6 sites that attract most of the high end in-state talent.
Limited athleticism? Are you kidding me? I dont care who you are you are not a 4x NCAA finalist 2X NCAA Champion a NCAA Division One wrestler with a 153-8 record with limited athleticisim!!
Quote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:57:19 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on May 31, 2023, 04:21:56 PMQuote from: wrestler_73 on May 17, 2023, 08:23:23 AMWow...the Narcissism (excessive interest in or admiration of oneself) of BA is ridiculous. In Vegas all of those kids represented not only AWA, but their hometown programs, and more important Wisconsin. No matter who the Badger coach is...it will not work between AWA and the Badgers unless an Askren is in charge.
I wonder if that's why John Messenbrink doesn't seem to be a part of AWA any longer?
I think you pretty much nailed it here though. It's either got to be Askren, or someone who gets handpicked by Askren.
I understand the fandom. He made himself into an...extraordinary Wrestler despite limited athleticism. He did that all through creativity and an incredible work ethic. He even turned that into a...pretty successful UFC run.
But a B1G program isn't going to cater to ONE individual when determining who to hire because they run 6 sites that attract most of the high end in-state talent.
Limited athleticism? Are you kidding me? I dont care who you are you are not a 4x NCAA finalist 2X NCAA Champion a NCAA Division One wrestler with a 153-8 record with limited athleticisim!!
I believe bwn was a disc golf champ also while in college. Double champ!
Quote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:57:19 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on May 31, 2023, 04:21:56 PMQuote from: wrestler_73 on May 17, 2023, 08:23:23 AMWow...the Narcissism (excessive interest in or admiration of oneself) of BA is ridiculous. In Vegas all of those kids represented not only AWA, but their hometown programs, and more important Wisconsin. No matter who the Badger coach is...it will not work between AWA and the Badgers unless an Askren is in charge.
I wonder if that's why John Messenbrink doesn't seem to be a part of AWA any longer?
I think you pretty much nailed it here though. It's either got to be Askren, or someone who gets handpicked by Askren.
I understand the fandom. He made himself into an...extraordinary Wrestler despite limited athleticism. He did that all through creativity and an incredible work ethic. He even turned that into a...pretty successful UFC run.
But a B1G program isn't going to cater to ONE individual when determining who to hire because they run 6 sites that attract most of the high end in-state talent.
Limited athleticism? Are you kidding me? I dont care who you are you are not a 4x NCAA finalist 2X NCAA Champion a NCAA Division One wrestler with a 153-8 record with limited athleticisim!!
I think Ben himself would admit that his athleticism is not elite. His wrestling ability was, and he was/is smart enough to keep pushing the envelope of technique. Those things are what got him to the top of the mountain.
John is still coaching at AWA.
Quote from: Grapl on June 01, 2023, 08:47:12 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on May 31, 2023, 04:21:56 PMQuote from: wrestler_73 on May 17, 2023, 08:23:23 AMWow...the Narcissism (excessive interest in or admiration of oneself) of BA is ridiculous. In Vegas all of those kids represented not only AWA, but their hometown programs, and more important Wisconsin. No matter who the Badger coach is...it will not work between AWA and the Badgers unless an Askren is in charge.
I wonder if that's why John Messenbrink doesn't seem to be a part of AWA any longer?
Please elaborate?
People just post whatever they want, facts have nothing to do with anything anymore. Last week, Barnett was in the portal...based on nothing at all, just someone want to troll
Quote from: Ghetto on June 01, 2023, 10:35:55 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:57:19 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on May 31, 2023, 04:21:56 PMQuote from: wrestler_73 on May 17, 2023, 08:23:23 AMWow...the Narcissism (excessive interest in or admiration of oneself) of BA is ridiculous. In Vegas all of those kids represented not only AWA, but their hometown programs, and more important Wisconsin. No matter who the Badger coach is...it will not work between AWA and the Badgers unless an Askren is in charge.
I wonder if that's why John Messenbrink doesn't seem to be a part of AWA any longer?
I think you pretty much nailed it here though. It's either got to be Askren, or someone who gets handpicked by Askren.
I understand the fandom. He made himself into an...extraordinary Wrestler despite limited athleticism. He did that all through creativity and an incredible work ethic. He even turned that into a...pretty successful UFC run.
But a B1G program isn't going to cater to ONE individual when determining who to hire because they run 6 sites that attract most of the high end in-state talent.
Limited athleticism? Are you kidding me? I dont care who you are you are not a 4x NCAA finalist 2X NCAA Champion a NCAA Division One wrestler with a 153-8 record with limited athleticisim!!
I think Ben himself would admit that his athleticism is not elite. His wrestling ability was, and he was/is smart enough to keep pushing the envelope of technique. Those things are what got him to the top of the mountain.
I can buy not elite but they were also not limited :) Dude was a complete force
Quote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:57:19 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on May 31, 2023, 04:21:56 PMQuote from: wrestler_73 on May 17, 2023, 08:23:23 AMWow...the Narcissism (excessive interest in or admiration of oneself) of BA is ridiculous. In Vegas all of those kids represented not only AWA, but their hometown programs, and more important Wisconsin. No matter who the Badger coach is...it will not work between AWA and the Badgers unless an Askren is in charge.
I wonder if that's why John Messenbrink doesn't seem to be a part of AWA any longer?
I think you pretty much nailed it here though. It's either got to be Askren, or someone who gets handpicked by Askren.
I understand the fandom. He made himself into an...extraordinary Wrestler despite limited athleticism. He did that all through creativity and an incredible work ethic. He even turned that into a...pretty successful UFC run.
But a B1G program isn't going to cater to ONE individual when determining who to hire because they run 6 sites that attract most of the high end in-state talent.
Limited athleticism? Are you kidding me? I dont care who you are you are not a 4x NCAA finalist 2X NCAA Champion a NCAA Division One wrestler with a 153-8 record with limited athleticisim!!
That's not meant as an insult. Ben spoke about this himself. About adjustments he had to make during his RS Freshmen year.
The MORE important point here is that he worked, grinded and developed a style that...kinda changed the sport(I don't think that's an understatement). He built himself into a GREAT Wrestler despite not being as...quick or explosive as a lot of other D1 Wrestlers. I didn't think this was a hot take or a unique one.
He won by wearing guys out, by doing things other guys weren't doing, turning offense into defense and then he had insane grip and shoulder flexibility/strength.
Quote from: Ghetto on June 01, 2023, 10:35:55 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:57:19 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on May 31, 2023, 04:21:56 PMQuote from: wrestler_73 on May 17, 2023, 08:23:23 AMWow...the Narcissism (excessive interest in or admiration of oneself) of BA is ridiculous. In Vegas all of those kids represented not only AWA, but their hometown programs, and more important Wisconsin. No matter who the Badger coach is...it will not work between AWA and the Badgers unless an Askren is in charge.
I wonder if that's why John Messenbrink doesn't seem to be a part of AWA any longer?
I think you pretty much nailed it here though. It's either got to be Askren, or someone who gets handpicked by Askren.
I understand the fandom. He made himself into an...extraordinary Wrestler despite limited athleticism. He did that all through creativity and an incredible work ethic. He even turned that into a...pretty successful UFC run.
But a B1G program isn't going to cater to ONE individual when determining who to hire because they run 6 sites that attract most of the high end in-state talent.
Limited athleticism? Are you kidding me? I dont care who you are you are not a 4x NCAA finalist 2X NCAA Champion a NCAA Division One wrestler with a 153-8 record with limited athleticisim!!
I think Ben himself would admit that his athleticism is not elite. His wrestling ability was, and he was/is smart enough to keep pushing the envelope of technique. Those things are what got him to the top of the mountain.
Exactly. Nobody said he wasn't a "total force" or whatever. His accomplishments are...what they are. He was one of the most dominant College Wrestlers ever.
But he he wasn't like a Starocci or a Brooks...or for that matter a Woodley or Pendelton. He found ways to make up for that gap and he was successful.
On that front, that's far more impressive to me than a guy who's just naturally more physically gifted and dominates largely as a result of that. But I certainly meant no offense. 4X Finalist, 2X Champ...Olympian. I think that speaks to possibilities of our sport more than anything.
Quote from: benaskren on May 17, 2023, 10:31:23 PMArmy Ant- We had our 2nd best showing ever and would have been close to best ever if Kellen had not been injured 1st round.
Harley- You arent gonna have to wait very long.
Am I going to have to wait much longer?
It might already been said but after five seasons
Davis
37-41-3
6.6 ave B1G (only ten teams)
18.6 NCAA (did not include Davis interim year)
Bono
41-28
8.8 B1G (13 teams)
18.5 NCAA (four seasons) Davis was at 17 after four seasons
Just seeing the John Messenbrink comment up there. Uh, John is going strong and thriving within the AWA community. He has coached my son at a few different events. He ain't goin' no where. Sorry. I am a tad late to this convo.