I saw on the Iowa forum that Angelo Ferrari was visiting the UW this weekend. Does anyone know if that is true?
Yes Vsmf, I can confirm
Cool thanks
UW no longer in top three per Flo.
Angelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Quote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
Quote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
At Iowa? Yes
Quote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
Quote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
The issue with Penn State is going to be that kids will leave after a couple of years if they see the writing on the wall of not being able to crack the lineup.
So there will be kids to pickup on transfer or will want to move closer to home. Kids who are that talented will not want to wrestle out their career as backups if they think they can AA somewhere else. It has already happened with their former 197 and 285.
I think you'll see plenty of wrestlers content to stay there for the money as back ups.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
Quote from: MNbadger on June 03, 2023, 11:53:30 AMI think you'll see plenty of wrestlers content to stay there for the money as back ups. Quote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
I don't think so. We just saw them lose a Freshmen AA when he lost his spot in the lineup when Dean came in(Beard to Lehigh).
I'm sure some will, but I REALLY doubt you're going to see all those kids from '65 up sticking around if they've got kids in their own class or a year ahead of them knocking them off.
But perhaps you're right.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
125 has been a weak spot since Suriano left. Robbie Howard can't stay healthy and their backups have been weak. They brought in McHenry, but I don't think he is likely to AA. Hopefully, Robbie Howard can get healthy or they can find someone to takeover that spot. While their recruiting has been good, they may be hard pressed to get the 5 titlists they had when they had Nick Lee, RBY, Brooks, Starocci and Dean once all of them move on. Meanwhile, Iowa looks to land the three Ferraris and has a potential future champ in Gabe Arnold. If PSU is unlucky with injuries or development, they could potentially lose to Iowa. I hope not as I like PSU more than Iowa, but Iowa has a corral of real horses now and they have a lot of money to throw around to entice transfers, so it would be foolish to ever count them out.
Quote from: BadgerOne on June 05, 2023, 05:03:31 PMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
125 has been a weak spot since Suriano left. Robbie Howard can't stay healthy and their backups have been weak. They brought in McHenry, but I don't think he is likely to AA. Hopefully, Robbie Howard can get healthy or they can find someone to takeover that spot. While their recruiting has been good, they may be hard pressed to get the 5 titlists they had when they had Nick Lee, RBY, Brooks, Starocci and Dean once all of them move on. Meanwhile, Iowa looks to land the three Ferraris and has a potential future champ in Gabe Arnold. If PSU is unlucky with injuries or development, they could potentially lose to Iowa. I hope not as I like PSU more than Iowa, but Iowa has a corral of real horses now and they have a lot of money to throw around to entice transfers, so it would be foolish to ever count them out.
LOL...you lost me at 3 at the THREE Ferrari's.
Read through this and look at the number of world medalists who've yet to even put on a Penn State signlet...nevermind the Freshmen and Soph like Mesenbrink, Haines, Van Ness, Facundo and Nagao...it's really not even close.
You count on AJ or Anthony to turn Iowa's tides. I'll take blue chip recruits with world medals who haven't shot at teammates houses or been arrested for serious felonies.
And Angelo is behind Haines and Mesenbrink and it's not particularly close at this point.
https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/26761
Quote from: Vir Fortis on June 06, 2023, 02:28:20 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 05, 2023, 05:03:31 PMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
125 has been a weak spot since Suriano left. Robbie Howard can't stay healthy and their backups have been weak. They brought in McHenry, but I don't think he is likely to AA. Hopefully, Robbie Howard can get healthy or they can find someone to takeover that spot. While their recruiting has been good, they may be hard pressed to get the 5 titlists they had when they had Nick Lee, RBY, Brooks, Starocci and Dean once all of them move on. Meanwhile, Iowa looks to land the three Ferraris and has a potential future champ in Gabe Arnold. If PSU is unlucky with injuries or development, they could potentially lose to Iowa. I hope not as I like PSU more than Iowa, but Iowa has a corral of real horses now and they have a lot of money to throw around to entice transfers, so it would be foolish to ever count them out.
LOL...you lost me at 3 at the THREE Ferrari's.
Read through this and look at the number of world medalists who've yet to even put on a Penn State signlet...nevermind the Freshmen and Soph like Mesenbrink, Haines, Van Ness, Facundo and Nagao...it's really not even close.
You count on AJ or Anthony to turn Iowa's tides. I'll take blue chip recruits with world medals who haven't shot at teammates houses or been arrested for serious felonies.
And Angelo is behind Haines and Mesenbrink and it's not particularly close at this point.
https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/26761
I would agree with you if your time horizon were a year or two, but if you look out five years or more, the landscape could change and while I still favor PSU to say it won't be close is nuts. Iowa may be able to eventually field all three Ferraris and Arnold and I didn't even mention Keuter who is ranked #2 overall in his class. Iowa potentially could be very loaded in the upperweights. Iowa also flipped Bono's top 2024 recruit Miguel Estrada and historically have excelled in bringing in title contending and AA transfers (DeSanto, Real Woods, Eierman, Lugo etc.) or flipping elite guys (Cass, Marinelli). They also have the money to flip more talented wrestlers as PSU's starting opportunities vanish and Iowa has their new facility opening up and lots of money to entice wrestlers. I expect Iowa will have the opportunity to bring in some elite light weights which they are known for and with Spencer Lee training there, I would be surprised if they are not loaded there in next five years. Iowa did win a title recently and were favored to win during the Covid year a few years ago and PSU can't sign everyone, so Iowa has conservatively at least a 30% chance at a title in next five year and it will surely be a battle. I am no fan of Iowa at all, but I won't underestimate them either.
Quote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:16:37 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 09:48:33 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 06, 2023, 02:28:20 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 05, 2023, 05:03:31 PMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
125 has been a weak spot since Suriano left. Robbie Howard can't stay healthy and their backups have been weak. They brought in McHenry, but I don't think he is likely to AA. Hopefully, Robbie Howard can get healthy or they can find someone to takeover that spot. While their recruiting has been good, they may be hard pressed to get the 5 titlists they had when they had Nick Lee, RBY, Brooks, Starocci and Dean once all of them move on. Meanwhile, Iowa looks to land the three Ferraris and has a potential future champ in Gabe Arnold. If PSU is unlucky with injuries or development, they could potentially lose to Iowa. I hope not as I like PSU more than Iowa, but Iowa has a corral of real horses now and they have a lot of money to throw around to entice transfers, so it would be foolish to ever count them out.
LOL...you lost me at 3 at the THREE Ferrari's.
Read through this and look at the number of world medalists who've yet to even put on a Penn State signlet...nevermind the Freshmen and Soph like Mesenbrink, Haines, Van Ness, Facundo and Nagao...it's really not even close.
You count on AJ or Anthony to turn Iowa's tides. I'll take blue chip recruits with world medals who haven't shot at teammates houses or been arrested for serious felonies.
And Angelo is behind Haines and Mesenbrink and it's not particularly close at this point.
https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/26761
I would agree with you if your time horizon were a year or two, but over the next five years or more, the landscape could change and while I still favor PSU to say it won't be close is nuts. Iowa may be able to eventually field all three Ferraris and Arnold and I didn't even mention Keuter who is ranked #2 overall in his class. Iowa potentially could be very loaded in the upperweights. Iowa also flipped Bono's top 2024 recruit Miguel Estrada and historically have excelled in bringing in title contending and AA transfers (DeSanto, Real Woods, Eierman, Lugo etc.) or flipping elite guys (Cass, Marinelli). They also have the opportunity to flip more talented wrestlers as PSU's starting opportunities vanish and Iowa has their new facility opening up and lots of money to entice wrestlers. I expect Iowa will have the opportunity to bring in some elite light weights which they are known for and with Spencer Lee training there, I would be surprised if they are not loaded there in next five years. Iowa did win a title recently and were favored to win during the Covid year a few years ago and PSU can't sign everyone, so Iowa has conservatively at least a 30% chance at a title in next five year and it will surely be a battle. I am no fan of Iowa at all, but I won't underestimate them either.
Quote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:17:39 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:16:37 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 09:48:33 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 06, 2023, 02:28:20 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 05, 2023, 05:03:31 PMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
125 has been a weak spot since Suriano left. Robbie Howard can't stay healthy and their backups have been weak. They brought in McHenry, but I don't think he is likely to AA. Hopefully, Robbie Howard can get healthy or they can find someone to takeover that spot. While their recruiting has been good, they may be hard pressed to get the 5 titlists they had when they had Nick Lee, RBY, Brooks, Starocci and Dean once all of them move on. Meanwhile, Iowa looks to land the three Ferraris and has a potential future champ in Gabe Arnold. If PSU is unlucky with injuries or development, they could potentially lose to Iowa. I hope not as I like PSU more than Iowa, but Iowa has a corral of real horses now and they have a lot of money to throw around to entice transfers, so it would be foolish to ever count them out.
LOL...you lost me at 3 at the THREE Ferrari's.
Read through this and look at the number of world medalists who've yet to even put on a Penn State signlet...nevermind the Freshmen and Soph like Mesenbrink, Haines, Van Ness, Facundo and Nagao...it's really not even close.
You count on AJ or Anthony to turn Iowa's tides. I'll take blue chip recruits with world medals who haven't shot at teammates houses or been arrested for serious felonies.
And Angelo is behind Haines and Mesenbrink and it's not particularly close at this point.
https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/26761
I would agree with you if your time horizon were a year or two, but over the next five years or more, the landscape could change and while I still favor PSU to say it won't be close is nuts. Iowa may be able to eventually field all three Ferraris and Arnold and I didn't even mention Keuter who is ranked #2 overall in his class. Iowa potentially could be very loaded in the upperweights. Iowa also flipped Bono's top 2024 recruit Miguel Estrada and historically have excelled in bringing in title contending and AA transfers (DeSanto, Real Woods, Eierman, Lugo etc.) or flipping elite guys (Cass, Marinelli). They also have the opportunity to flip more talented wrestlers as PSU's starting opportunities vanish and Iowa has their new facility opening up and lots of money to entice wrestlers. I expect Iowa will have the opportunity to bring in some elite light weights which they are known for and with Spencer Lee training there, I would be surprised if they are not loaded there in next five years. Iowa did win a title recently and were favored to win during the Covid year a few years ago and PSU can't sign everyone, so Iowa has conservatively at least a 30% chance at a title in next five year and it will surely be a battle. I am no fan of Iowa at all, but I won't underestimate them either.
I'm not particularly interested if you agree with me. Penn State is recruiting at a level we've never seen before. Not over a 3 year period. I think they've got...7 of the top ~20 in '24. They had a loaded Freshmen class and they ADD Mesenbrink, Nagao. Lillendahl might not hit, or Sealey or Ryder or whowever. They've basically got two deep at every weight class and...what, 5-6 World Champs or Medalists(not including Haines).
And the 3 Ferrari's. Did AJ's sexual assault case go away? He MAY have 2 years of eligibility left.
I also don't wanna hear anything from you about Estrada. He wasn't impressive as a UW recruit, why would he be as an Iowa recruit?
Quote from: Vir Fortis on June 12, 2023, 04:25:35 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:17:39 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:16:37 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 09:48:33 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 06, 2023, 02:28:20 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 05, 2023, 05:03:31 PMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
125 has been a weak spot since Suriano left. Robbie Howard can't stay healthy and their backups have been weak. They brought in McHenry, but I don't think he is likely to AA. Hopefully, Robbie Howard can get healthy or they can find someone to takeover that spot. While their recruiting has been good, they may be hard pressed to get the 5 titlists they had when they had Nick Lee, RBY, Brooks, Starocci and Dean once all of them move on. Meanwhile, Iowa looks to land the three Ferraris and has a potential future champ in Gabe Arnold. If PSU is unlucky with injuries or development, they could potentially lose to Iowa. I hope not as I like PSU more than Iowa, but Iowa has a corral of real horses now and they have a lot of money to throw around to entice transfers, so it would be foolish to ever count them out.
LOL...you lost me at 3 at the THREE Ferrari's.
Read through this and look at the number of world medalists who've yet to even put on a Penn State signlet...nevermind the Freshmen and Soph like Mesenbrink, Haines, Van Ness, Facundo and Nagao...it's really not even close.
You count on AJ or Anthony to turn Iowa's tides. I'll take blue chip recruits with world medals who haven't shot at teammates houses or been arrested for serious felonies.
And Angelo is behind Haines and Mesenbrink and it's not particularly close at this point.
https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/26761
I would agree with you if your time horizon were a year or two, but over the next five years or more, the landscape could change and while I still favor PSU to say it won't be close is nuts. Iowa may be able to eventually field all three Ferraris and Arnold and I didn't even mention Keuter who is ranked #2 overall in his class. Iowa potentially could be very loaded in the upperweights. Iowa also flipped Bono's top 2024 recruit Miguel Estrada and historically have excelled in bringing in title contending and AA transfers (DeSanto, Real Woods, Eierman, Lugo etc.) or flipping elite guys (Cass, Marinelli). They also have the opportunity to flip more talented wrestlers as PSU's starting opportunities vanish and Iowa has their new facility opening up and lots of money to entice wrestlers. I expect Iowa will have the opportunity to bring in some elite light weights which they are known for and with Spencer Lee training there, I would be surprised if they are not loaded there in next five years. Iowa did win a title recently and were favored to win during the Covid year a few years ago and PSU can't sign everyone, so Iowa has conservatively at least a 30% chance at a title in next five year and it will surely be a battle. I am no fan of Iowa at all, but I won't underestimate them either.
I'm not particularly interested if you agree with me. Penn State is recruiting at a level we've never seen before. Not over a 3 year period. I think they've got...7 of the top ~20 in '24. They had a loaded Freshmen class and they ADD Mesenbrink, Nagao. Lillendahl might not hit, or Sealey or Ryder or whowever. They've basically got two deep at every weight class and...what, 5-6 World Champs or Medalists(not including Haines).
And the 3 Ferrari's. Did AJ's sexual assault case go away? He MAY have 2 years of eligibility left.
I also don't wanna hear anything from you about Estrada. He wasn't impressive as a UW recruit, why would he be as an Iowa recruit?
PSU will lose a lot of fire power when Brooks, Starocci and Kerk are done. Who knows if the new kids will be folkstyle studs or not. I hope so, but I don't see any sure fire champs like Brooks, Starocci, RBY and Nick Lee were and Nickal, Nolf and Zain were before them. Meanwhile I think AJ if he gets past his legal problems (remember Gable Stevenson was charged with some serious stuff too and it was eventually dropped) would be the favorite if he could return at 197 and a contender at heavyweight. I also think Angelo would be a title contender right away. Gabe Arnold looks like a stud. Iowa will get the recruits and transfers to build up the roster over the next five years. I don't like Iowa but they aren't going away and some years will battle PSU closely and might even pull out a title. I think Iowa's chance of winning a title in next five years are better than Wisconsin's chances of fielding a top ten team at NCAAs in the same time frame.
Quote from: BadgerOne on June 12, 2023, 08:09:13 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 12, 2023, 04:25:35 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:17:39 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:16:37 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 09:48:33 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 06, 2023, 02:28:20 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 05, 2023, 05:03:31 PMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
125 has been a weak spot since Suriano left. Robbie Howard can't stay healthy and their backups have been weak. They brought in McHenry, but I don't think he is likely to AA. Hopefully, Robbie Howard can get healthy or they can find someone to takeover that spot. While their recruiting has been good, they may be hard pressed to get the 5 titlists they had when they had Nick Lee, RBY, Brooks, Starocci and Dean once all of them move on. Meanwhile, Iowa looks to land the three Ferraris and has a potential future champ in Gabe Arnold. If PSU is unlucky with injuries or development, they could potentially lose to Iowa. I hope not as I like PSU more than Iowa, but Iowa has a corral of real horses now and they have a lot of money to throw around to entice transfers, so it would be foolish to ever count them out.
LOL...you lost me at 3 at the THREE Ferrari's.
Read through this and look at the number of world medalists who've yet to even put on a Penn State signlet...nevermind the Freshmen and Soph like Mesenbrink, Haines, Van Ness, Facundo and Nagao...it's really not even close.
You count on AJ or Anthony to turn Iowa's tides. I'll take blue chip recruits with world medals who haven't shot at teammates houses or been arrested for serious felonies.
And Angelo is behind Haines and Mesenbrink and it's not particularly close at this point.
https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/26761
I would agree with you if your time horizon were a year or two, but over the next five years or more, the landscape could change and while I still favor PSU to say it won't be close is nuts. Iowa may be able to eventually field all three Ferraris and Arnold and I didn't even mention Keuter who is ranked #2 overall in his class. Iowa potentially could be very loaded in the upperweights. Iowa also flipped Bono's top 2024 recruit Miguel Estrada and historically have excelled in bringing in title contending and AA transfers (DeSanto, Real Woods, Eierman, Lugo etc.) or flipping elite guys (Cass, Marinelli). They also have the opportunity to flip more talented wrestlers as PSU's starting opportunities vanish and Iowa has their new facility opening up and lots of money to entice wrestlers. I expect Iowa will have the opportunity to bring in some elite light weights which they are known for and with Spencer Lee training there, I would be surprised if they are not loaded there in next five years. Iowa did win a title recently and were favored to win during the Covid year a few years ago and PSU can't sign everyone, so Iowa has conservatively at least a 30% chance at a title in next five year and it will surely be a battle. I am no fan of Iowa at all, but I won't underestimate them either.
I'm not particularly interested if you agree with me. Penn State is recruiting at a level we've never seen before. Not over a 3 year period. I think they've got...7 of the top ~20 in '24. They had a loaded Freshmen class and they ADD Mesenbrink, Nagao. Lillendahl might not hit, or Sealey or Ryder or whowever. They've basically got two deep at every weight class and...what, 5-6 World Champs or Medalists(not including Haines).
And the 3 Ferrari's. Did AJ's sexual assault case go away? He MAY have 2 years of eligibility left.
I also don't wanna hear anything from you about Estrada. He wasn't impressive as a UW recruit, why would he be as an Iowa recruit?
PSU will lose a lot of fire power when Brooks, Starocci and Kerk are done. Who knows if the new kids will be folkstyle studs or not. I hope so, but I don't see any sure fire champs like Brooks, Starocci, RBY and Nick Lee were and Nickal, Nolf and Zain were before them. Meanwhile I think AJ if he gets past his legal problems (remember Gable Stevenson was charged with some serious stuff too and it was eventually dropped) would be the favorite if he could return at 197 and a contender at heavyweight. I also think Angelo would be a title contender right away. Gabe Arnold looks like a stud. Iowa will get the recruits and transfers to build up the roster over the next five years. I don't like Iowa but they aren't going away and some years will battle PSU closely and might even pull out a title. I think Iowa's chance of winning a title in next five years are better than Wisconsin's chances of fielding a top ten team at NCAAs in the same time frame.
You don't? You don't see any surefire studs LIKE Starocci, Brooks, Lee and RBY were? They've got higher rated recruits in just one class.
They have 5 of the top 10 overall recruits for the 2024 class. They've got 6 of 7 world medalists coming in. Maybe your vision is a bit cloudy.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on June 16, 2023, 08:47:45 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 12, 2023, 08:09:13 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 12, 2023, 04:25:35 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:17:39 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:16:37 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 09:48:33 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 06, 2023, 02:28:20 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 05, 2023, 05:03:31 PMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
125 has been a weak spot since Suriano left. Robbie Howard can't stay healthy and their backups have been weak. They brought in McHenry, but I don't think he is likely to AA. Hopefully, Robbie Howard can get healthy or they can find someone to takeover that spot. While their recruiting has been good, they may be hard pressed to get the 5 titlists they had when they had Nick Lee, RBY, Brooks, Starocci and Dean once all of them move on. Meanwhile, Iowa looks to land the three Ferraris and has a potential future champ in Gabe Arnold. If PSU is unlucky with injuries or development, they could potentially lose to Iowa. I hope not as I like PSU more than Iowa, but Iowa has a corral of real horses now and they have a lot of money to throw around to entice transfers, so it would be foolish to ever count them out.
LOL...you lost me at 3 at the THREE Ferrari's.
Read through this and look at the number of world medalists who've yet to even put on a Penn State signlet...nevermind the Freshmen and Soph like Mesenbrink, Haines, Van Ness, Facundo and Nagao...it's really not even close.
You count on AJ or Anthony to turn Iowa's tides. I'll take blue chip recruits with world medals who haven't shot at teammates houses or been arrested for serious felonies.
And Angelo is behind Haines and Mesenbrink and it's not particularly close at this point.
https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/26761
I would agree with you if your time horizon were a year or two, but over the next five years or more, the landscape could change and while I still favor PSU to say it won't be close is nuts. Iowa may be able to eventually field all three Ferraris and Arnold and I didn't even mention Keuter who is ranked #2 overall in his class. Iowa potentially could be very loaded in the upperweights. Iowa also flipped Bono's top 2024 recruit Miguel Estrada and historically have excelled in bringing in title contending and AA transfers (DeSanto, Real Woods, Eierman, Lugo etc.) or flipping elite guys (Cass, Marinelli). They also have the opportunity to flip more talented wrestlers as PSU's starting opportunities vanish and Iowa has their new facility opening up and lots of money to entice wrestlers. I expect Iowa will have the opportunity to bring in some elite light weights which they are known for and with Spencer Lee training there, I would be surprised if they are not loaded there in next five years. Iowa did win a title recently and were favored to win during the Covid year a few years ago and PSU can't sign everyone, so Iowa has conservatively at least a 30% chance at a title in next five year and it will surely be a battle. I am no fan of Iowa at all, but I won't underestimate them either.
I'm not particularly interested if you agree with me. Penn State is recruiting at a level we've never seen before. Not over a 3 year period. I think they've got...7 of the top ~20 in '24. They had a loaded Freshmen class and they ADD Mesenbrink, Nagao. Lillendahl might not hit, or Sealey or Ryder or whowever. They've basically got two deep at every weight class and...what, 5-6 World Champs or Medalists(not including Haines).
And the 3 Ferrari's. Did AJ's sexual assault case go away? He MAY have 2 years of eligibility left.
I also don't wanna hear anything from you about Estrada. He wasn't impressive as a UW recruit, why would he be as an Iowa recruit?
PSU will lose a lot of fire power when Brooks, Starocci and Kerk are done. Who knows if the new kids will be folkstyle studs or not. I hope so, but I don't see any sure fire champs like Brooks, Starocci, RBY and Nick Lee were and Nickal, Nolf and Zain were before them. Meanwhile I think AJ if he gets past his legal problems (remember Gable Stevenson was charged with some serious stuff too and it was eventually dropped) would be the favorite if he could return at 197 and a contender at heavyweight. I also think Angelo would be a title contender right away. Gabe Arnold looks like a stud. Iowa will get the recruits and transfers to build up the roster over the next five years. I don't like Iowa but they aren't going away and some years will battle PSU closely and might even pull out a title. I think Iowa's chance of winning a title in next five years are better than Wisconsin's chances of fielding a top ten team at NCAAs in the same time frame.
You don't? You don't see any surefire studs LIKE Starocci, Brooks, Lee and RBY were? They've got higher rated recruits in just one class.
They have 5 of the top 10 overall recruits for the 2024 class. They've got 6 of 7 world medalists coming in. Maybe your vision is a bit cloudy.
I agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I. Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!
Quote from: littleguy301 on June 17, 2023, 10:52:42 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 16, 2023, 08:47:45 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 12, 2023, 08:09:13 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 12, 2023, 04:25:35 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:17:39 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:16:37 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 09:48:33 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 06, 2023, 02:28:20 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 05, 2023, 05:03:31 PMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
125 has been a weak spot since Suriano left. Robbie Howard can't stay healthy and their backups have been weak. They brought in McHenry, but I don't think he is likely to AA. Hopefully, Robbie Howard can get healthy or they can find someone to takeover that spot. While their recruiting has been good, they may be hard pressed to get the 5 titlists they had when they had Nick Lee, RBY, Brooks, Starocci and Dean once all of them move on. Meanwhile, Iowa looks to land the three Ferraris and has a potential future champ in Gabe Arnold. If PSU is unlucky with injuries or development, they could potentially lose to Iowa. I hope not as I like PSU more than Iowa, but Iowa has a corral of real horses now and they have a lot of money to throw around to entice transfers, so it would be foolish to ever count them out.
LOL...you lost me at 3 at the THREE Ferrari's.
Read through this and look at the number of world medalists who've yet to even put on a Penn State signlet...nevermind the Freshmen and Soph like Mesenbrink, Haines, Van Ness, Facundo and Nagao...it's really not even close.
You count on AJ or Anthony to turn Iowa's tides. I'll take blue chip recruits with world medals who haven't shot at teammates houses or been arrested for serious felonies.
And Angelo is behind Haines and Mesenbrink and it's not particularly close at this point.
https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/26761
I would agree with you if your time horizon were a year or two, but over the next five years or more, the landscape could change and while I still favor PSU to say it won't be close is nuts. Iowa may be able to eventually field all three Ferraris and Arnold and I didn't even mention Keuter who is ranked #2 overall in his class. Iowa potentially could be very loaded in the upperweights. Iowa also flipped Bono's top 2024 recruit Miguel Estrada and historically have excelled in bringing in title contending and AA transfers (DeSanto, Real Woods, Eierman, Lugo etc.) or flipping elite guys (Cass, Marinelli). They also have the opportunity to flip more talented wrestlers as PSU's starting opportunities vanish and Iowa has their new facility opening up and lots of money to entice wrestlers. I expect Iowa will have the opportunity to bring in some elite light weights which they are known for and with Spencer Lee training there, I would be surprised if they are not loaded there in next five years. Iowa did win a title recently and were favored to win during the Covid year a few years ago and PSU can't sign everyone, so Iowa has conservatively at least a 30% chance at a title in next five year and it will surely be a battle. I am no fan of Iowa at all, but I won't underestimate them either.
I'm not particularly interested if you agree with me. Penn State is recruiting at a level we've never seen before. Not over a 3 year period. I think they've got...7 of the top ~20 in '24. They had a loaded Freshmen class and they ADD Mesenbrink, Nagao. Lillendahl might not hit, or Sealey or Ryder or whowever. They've basically got two deep at every weight class and...what, 5-6 World Champs or Medalists(not including Haines).
And the 3 Ferrari's. Did AJ's sexual assault case go away? He MAY have 2 years of eligibility left.
I also don't wanna hear anything from you about Estrada. He wasn't impressive as a UW recruit, why would he be as an Iowa recruit?
PSU will lose a lot of fire power when Brooks, Starocci and Kerk are done. Who knows if the new kids will be folkstyle studs or not. I hope so, but I don't see any sure fire champs like Brooks, Starocci, RBY and Nick Lee were and Nickal, Nolf and Zain were before them. Meanwhile I think AJ if he gets past his legal problems (remember Gable Stevenson was charged with some serious stuff too and it was eventually dropped) would be the favorite if he could return at 197 and a contender at heavyweight. I also think Angelo would be a title contender right away. Gabe Arnold looks like a stud. Iowa will get the recruits and transfers to build up the roster over the next five years. I don't like Iowa but they aren't going away and some years will battle PSU closely and might even pull out a title. I think Iowa's chance of winning a title in next five years are better than Wisconsin's chances of fielding a top ten team at NCAAs in the same time frame.
You don't? You don't see any surefire studs LIKE Starocci, Brooks, Lee and RBY were? They've got higher rated recruits in just one class.
They have 5 of the top 10 overall recruits for the 2024 class. They've got 6 of 7 world medalists coming in. Maybe your vision is a bit cloudy.
I agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I. Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!
Yeah, but so does Iowa. They just added two AAs to their roster from the portal and they still have a ton of money and the largest fanbase to keep the spigot running. While PSU may win many more titles in the future, Iowa will be able to narrow the gap and some years, will keep it interesting. Meanwhile Bono's ship is rudderless and a podium team seems like a pipedream.
Quote from: littleguy301 on June 17, 2023, 10:52:42 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 16, 2023, 08:47:45 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 12, 2023, 08:09:13 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 12, 2023, 04:25:35 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:17:39 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:16:37 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 09:48:33 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 06, 2023, 02:28:20 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 05, 2023, 05:03:31 PMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
125 has been a weak spot since Suriano left. Robbie Howard can't stay healthy and their backups have been weak. They brought in McHenry, but I don't think he is likely to AA. Hopefully, Robbie Howard can get healthy or they can find someone to takeover that spot. While their recruiting has been good, they may be hard pressed to get the 5 titlists they had when they had Nick Lee, RBY, Brooks, Starocci and Dean once all of them move on. Meanwhile, Iowa looks to land the three Ferraris and has a potential future champ in Gabe Arnold. If PSU is unlucky with injuries or development, they could potentially lose to Iowa. I hope not as I like PSU more than Iowa, but Iowa has a corral of real horses now and they have a lot of money to throw around to entice transfers, so it would be foolish to ever count them out.
LOL...you lost me at 3 at the THREE Ferrari's.
Read through this and look at the number of world medalists who've yet to even put on a Penn State signlet...nevermind the Freshmen and Soph like Mesenbrink, Haines, Van Ness, Facundo and Nagao...it's really not even close.
You count on AJ or Anthony to turn Iowa's tides. I'll take blue chip recruits with world medals who haven't shot at teammates houses or been arrested for serious felonies.
And Angelo is behind Haines and Mesenbrink and it's not particularly close at this point.
https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/26761
I would agree with you if your time horizon were a year or two, but over the next five years or more, the landscape could change and while I still favor PSU to say it won't be close is nuts. Iowa may be able to eventually field all three Ferraris and Arnold and I didn't even mention Keuter who is ranked #2 overall in his class. Iowa potentially could be very loaded in the upperweights. Iowa also flipped Bono's top 2024 recruit Miguel Estrada and historically have excelled in bringing in title contending and AA transfers (DeSanto, Real Woods, Eierman, Lugo etc.) or flipping elite guys (Cass, Marinelli). They also have the opportunity to flip more talented wrestlers as PSU's starting opportunities vanish and Iowa has their new facility opening up and lots of money to entice wrestlers. I expect Iowa will have the opportunity to bring in some elite light weights which they are known for and with Spencer Lee training there, I would be surprised if they are not loaded there in next five years. Iowa did win a title recently and were favored to win during the Covid year a few years ago and PSU can't sign everyone, so Iowa has conservatively at least a 30% chance at a title in next five year and it will surely be a battle. I am no fan of Iowa at all, but I won't underestimate them either.
I'm not particularly interested if you agree with me. Penn State is recruiting at a level we've never seen before. Not over a 3 year period. I think they've got...7 of the top ~20 in '24. They had a loaded Freshmen class and they ADD Mesenbrink, Nagao. Lillendahl might not hit, or Sealey or Ryder or whowever. They've basically got two deep at every weight class and...what, 5-6 World Champs or Medalists(not including Haines).
And the 3 Ferrari's. Did AJ's sexual assault case go away? He MAY have 2 years of eligibility left.
I also don't wanna hear anything from you about Estrada. He wasn't impressive as a UW recruit, why would he be as an Iowa recruit?
PSU will lose a lot of fire power when Brooks, Starocci and Kerk are done. Who knows if the new kids will be folkstyle studs or not. I hope so, but I don't see any sure fire champs like Brooks, Starocci, RBY and Nick Lee were and Nickal, Nolf and Zain were before them. Meanwhile I think AJ if he gets past his legal problems (remember Gable Stevenson was charged with some serious stuff too and it was eventually dropped) would be the favorite if he could return at 197 and a contender at heavyweight. I also think Angelo would be a title contender right away. Gabe Arnold looks like a stud. Iowa will get the recruits and transfers to build up the roster over the next five years. I don't like Iowa but they aren't going away and some years will battle PSU closely and might even pull out a title. I think Iowa's chance of winning a title in next five years are better than Wisconsin's chances of fielding a top ten team at NCAAs in the same time frame.
You don't? You don't see any surefire studs LIKE Starocci, Brooks, Lee and RBY were? They've got higher rated recruits in just one class.
They have 5 of the top 10 overall recruits for the 2024 class. They've got 6 of 7 world medalists coming in. Maybe your vision is a bit cloudy.
I agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I. Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!
Is this Kerkorian related to Dr Death? Game over if that's the case :)
Quote from: bigoil on June 17, 2023, 04:26:43 PMQuote from: littleguy301 on June 17, 2023, 10:52:42 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 16, 2023, 08:47:45 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 12, 2023, 08:09:13 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 12, 2023, 04:25:35 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:17:39 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 10:16:37 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 06, 2023, 09:48:33 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 06, 2023, 02:28:20 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 05, 2023, 05:03:31 PMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 02, 2023, 11:50:41 PMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on June 01, 2023, 11:57:51 AMQuote from: harley25 on June 01, 2023, 08:02:07 AMQuote from: wrestle_4ever on May 31, 2023, 11:11:42 PMAngelo to Iowa this evening.
NCAA wrestling has now become Penn St vs. The Ferrari's. Welcome to the show.
Do you honestly think they will remain eligible?
I hope not harley. At the same time, tho, they seem to be the last hope against the blue and white
There is no hope against Penn State. At least not in the short term. They're adding guys like the Mirasola brothers who...aren't even the highest rated recruits at their own weight. And we all know how good they are, but they went there to take on the challenges of winning spots with SO much incoming talent like Ryder, Sealey, Barr among others.
Haines, a returning runner up as a True Freshmen. Last time he stepped foot on a mat with Mitchell Mesenbrink, I believe Mesenbrink beat him the first two in a 2 out of 3 for the U20 World Championships(where he took a silver).
And again, they seemingly stole Cornell's next generation of stars(minus Shapiro) with the Gibson brothers who are close to the Bassetts(their cousins).
They're recruiting right now is just so far beyond anyone else and they generally get the most out of the kids they have. Plus, they had 3 Freshmen last year who went 3rd, 2nd and DNP at the deepest, toughest weight in Van Ness, Haines and Facundo.
Don't know what's gonna happen in 4-5 years, but unless Cael, Cunningham and the NLWC all just stop developing Wrestlers, this looks like a team that could easily have 10 AAs and 5 or more guys challenging for NCs.
I forgot about Luke Lillendahl, Kasak and others. They're recruiting elite Wrestlers at 2 deep at each weight.
https://nittanysportsnow.com/2023/05/penn-state-wrestling-recruiting-a-breakdown-of-2023-24-commits/
125 has been a weak spot since Suriano left. Robbie Howard can't stay healthy and their backups have been weak. They brought in McHenry, but I don't think he is likely to AA. Hopefully, Robbie Howard can get healthy or they can find someone to takeover that spot. While their recruiting has been good, they may be hard pressed to get the 5 titlists they had when they had Nick Lee, RBY, Brooks, Starocci and Dean once all of them move on. Meanwhile, Iowa looks to land the three Ferraris and has a potential future champ in Gabe Arnold. If PSU is unlucky with injuries or development, they could potentially lose to Iowa. I hope not as I like PSU more than Iowa, but Iowa has a corral of real horses now and they have a lot of money to throw around to entice transfers, so it would be foolish to ever count them out.
LOL...you lost me at 3 at the THREE Ferrari's.
Read through this and look at the number of world medalists who've yet to even put on a Penn State signlet...nevermind the Freshmen and Soph like Mesenbrink, Haines, Van Ness, Facundo and Nagao...it's really not even close.
You count on AJ or Anthony to turn Iowa's tides. I'll take blue chip recruits with world medals who haven't shot at teammates houses or been arrested for serious felonies.
And Angelo is behind Haines and Mesenbrink and it's not particularly close at this point.
https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/26761
I would agree with you if your time horizon were a year or two, but over the next five years or more, the landscape could change and while I still favor PSU to say it won't be close is nuts. Iowa may be able to eventually field all three Ferraris and Arnold and I didn't even mention Keuter who is ranked #2 overall in his class. Iowa potentially could be very loaded in the upperweights. Iowa also flipped Bono's top 2024 recruit Miguel Estrada and historically have excelled in bringing in title contending and AA transfers (DeSanto, Real Woods, Eierman, Lugo etc.) or flipping elite guys (Cass, Marinelli). They also have the opportunity to flip more talented wrestlers as PSU's starting opportunities vanish and Iowa has their new facility opening up and lots of money to entice wrestlers. I expect Iowa will have the opportunity to bring in some elite light weights which they are known for and with Spencer Lee training there, I would be surprised if they are not loaded there in next five years. Iowa did win a title recently and were favored to win during the Covid year a few years ago and PSU can't sign everyone, so Iowa has conservatively at least a 30% chance at a title in next five year and it will surely be a battle. I am no fan of Iowa at all, but I won't underestimate them either.
I'm not particularly interested if you agree with me. Penn State is recruiting at a level we've never seen before. Not over a 3 year period. I think they've got...7 of the top ~20 in '24. They had a loaded Freshmen class and they ADD Mesenbrink, Nagao. Lillendahl might not hit, or Sealey or Ryder or whowever. They've basically got two deep at every weight class and...what, 5-6 World Champs or Medalists(not including Haines).
And the 3 Ferrari's. Did AJ's sexual assault case go away? He MAY have 2 years of eligibility left.
I also don't wanna hear anything from you about Estrada. He wasn't impressive as a UW recruit, why would he be as an Iowa recruit?
PSU will lose a lot of fire power when Brooks, Starocci and Kerk are done. Who knows if the new kids will be folkstyle studs or not. I hope so, but I don't see any sure fire champs like Brooks, Starocci, RBY and Nick Lee were and Nickal, Nolf and Zain were before them. Meanwhile I think AJ if he gets past his legal problems (remember Gable Stevenson was charged with some serious stuff too and it was eventually dropped) would be the favorite if he could return at 197 and a contender at heavyweight. I also think Angelo would be a title contender right away. Gabe Arnold looks like a stud. Iowa will get the recruits and transfers to build up the roster over the next five years. I don't like Iowa but they aren't going away and some years will battle PSU closely and might even pull out a title. I think Iowa's chance of winning a title in next five years are better than Wisconsin's chances of fielding a top ten team at NCAAs in the same time frame.
You don't? You don't see any surefire studs LIKE Starocci, Brooks, Lee and RBY were? They've got higher rated recruits in just one class.
They have 5 of the top 10 overall recruits for the 2024 class. They've got 6 of 7 world medalists coming in. Maybe your vision is a bit cloudy.
I agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I. Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!
Is this Kerkorian related to Dr Death? Game over if that's the case :)
Kerk! Auto correct sucks but he is the highest returning place Winner and that could mean lights put for many HWT!
Quote from: littleguy301 on June 17, 2023, 10:52:42 AMI agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I. Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!
It's really unprecedented. And it's not just the upper weights with PSU. Those are a little more ridiculous than the others, but they're doubling/tripling up at the light weights and they still have Robbie Howard and now Nagao who have 7 years left between the two. Lillendahl, Gibson, Kasak...it's really not even worth doing this anymore. It's not comparable and that's before accounting for how PSU develops Wrestlers. The growth at PSU is as impressive as their recruiting...which until very recently, hasn't been THAT good. Cael brought some great Wrestlers with him, but it's not like he's just had more talent. He's developed Wrestlers. Guys like Cassar who was struggling to make the lineup, jumps up to HWT and runs through the weight class and is the only one to beat Gable Stevenson.
They'll likely lose several guys due to transfer and they'll KEEP picking up studs, but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy. If it was an open, I believe there are weights they'd very possibly have multiple Wrestlers at. This next year, 157 pops to mind.
The gap between them and anyone else is enormous. And it's not hard to see why. Looking at the Open, Trials, Final X, you've got NLWC on NLWC crime!
Lee, Zain, Dake, Taylor, Snyder...and guys like Nolf, Gilman, Brooks.
Well, you can see why guys would keep getting better and better - just imagine those practice sessions....
Quote from: Vir Fortis on June 24, 2023, 03:11:12 AMQuote from: littleguy301 on June 17, 2023, 10:52:42 AMI agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I. Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!
It's really unprecedented. And it's not just the upper weights with PSU. Those are a little more ridiculous than the others, but they're doubling/tripling up at the light weights and they still have Robbie Howard and now Nagao who have 7 years left between the two. Lillendahl, Gibson, Kasak...it's really not even worth doing this anymore. It's not comparable and that's before accounting for how PSU develops Wrestlers. The growth at PSU is as impressive as their recruiting...which until very recently, hasn't been THAT good. Cael brought some great Wrestlers with him, but it's not like he's just had more talent. He's developed Wrestlers. Guys like Cassar who was struggling to make the lineup, jumps up to HWT and runs through the weight class and is the only one to beat Gable Stevenson.
They'll likely lose several guys due to transfer and they'll KEEP picking up studs, but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy. If it was an open, I believe there are weights they'd very possibly have multiple Wrestlers at. This next year, 157 pops to mind.
The gap between them and anyone else is enormous. And it's not hard to see why. Looking at the Open, Trials, Final X, you've got NLWC on NLWC crime!
Lee, Zain, Dake, Taylor, Snyder...and guys like Nolf, Gilman, Brooks.
but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy.Their second stringers would not win a team trophy. Now you are just talking nonsense. Give it a rest!
Quote from: BadgerOne on June 24, 2023, 10:52:25 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 24, 2023, 03:11:12 AMQuote from: littleguy301 on June 17, 2023, 10:52:42 AMI agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I. Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!
It's really unprecedented. And it's not just the upper weights with PSU. Those are a little more ridiculous than the others, but they're doubling/tripling up at the light weights and they still have Robbie Howard and now Nagao who have 7 years left between the two. Lillendahl, Gibson, Kasak...it's really not even worth doing this anymore. It's not comparable and that's before accounting for how PSU develops Wrestlers. The growth at PSU is as impressive as their recruiting...which until very recently, hasn't been THAT good. Cael brought some great Wrestlers with him, but it's not like he's just had more talent. He's developed Wrestlers. Guys like Cassar who was struggling to make the lineup, jumps up to HWT and runs through the weight class and is the only one to beat Gable Stevenson.
They'll likely lose several guys due to transfer and they'll KEEP picking up studs, but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy. If it was an open, I believe there are weights they'd very possibly have multiple Wrestlers at. This next year, 157 pops to mind.
The gap between them and anyone else is enormous. And it's not hard to see why. Looking at the Open, Trials, Final X, you've got NLWC on NLWC crime!
Lee, Zain, Dake, Taylor, Snyder...and guys like Nolf, Gilman, Brooks.
but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy.
Their second stringers would not win a team trophy. Now you are just talking nonsense. Give it a rest!
Maybe not win but I will.bet you theyfi ish top 5. I am sure no one wants to hear that from wisco sin but what PSU is doing they may have world.tesm medalist as back up so let think this over!
What PSU is doing is unheard of at this level!
Gentlemen, you are seeing the end of our sport as we know it...and any number of other non-profit sponsored collegiate sports. And it will come sooner than you think. Put football and mens basketball is a separate box because they actually make money for their respective schools - they will, and have been, treated differently. But NIL money and its concentration at a limited number of wrestling programs will create a very limited number of "haves" and many "have nots." Once that imbalance becomes the norm, the perennial (limited number of) winners will be identified - as will the non-winners, i.e., the "losers." The supporters of the losers will quickly lose interest and move on to other fandom-interests (it is just our nature as fans) and will most certainly abandon support for minor collegiate sports; PSU and Iowa maybe the kings, but their kingdom will only include four programs - all of the others will have been disbanded/dismantled. Wrestling as we know it will be absorbed by professional MMA-type endeavors and lose their once strong affiliation with specific schools (and their athletic supporters).
Professional sports, e.g., NFL, NBA, etc., only survive because the games' managers ensure that a certain amount of the wealth is spread around to ensure a competitive environment where even losers have chance at success. Collegiate wrestling cannot make the same boast under these current dynamics; repeatedly heading into PSU or Iowa and coming out with one or no wins will lose its competitive appeal to the average fan, and there aren't enough interested billionaire fans to come to the rescue of the uncompetitive teams.
This move away from limited scholarships and toward paying amateur athletes unequal wages is our sport's death knell - and you will see the end of the sport within a decade. Think it can't happen? Remember collegiate boxing? I thought not.
Quote from: littleguy301 on June 25, 2023, 02:23:21 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 24, 2023, 10:52:25 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 24, 2023, 03:11:12 AMQuote from: littleguy301 on June 17, 2023, 10:52:42 AMI agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I. Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!
It's really unprecedented. And it's not just the upper weights with PSU. Those are a little more ridiculous than the others, but they're doubling/tripling up at the light weights and they still have Robbie Howard and now Nagao who have 7 years left between the two. Lillendahl, Gibson, Kasak...it's really not even worth doing this anymore. It's not comparable and that's before accounting for how PSU develops Wrestlers. The growth at PSU is as impressive as their recruiting...which until very recently, hasn't been THAT good. Cael brought some great Wrestlers with him, but it's not like he's just had more talent. He's developed Wrestlers. Guys like Cassar who was struggling to make the lineup, jumps up to HWT and runs through the weight class and is the only one to beat Gable Stevenson.
They'll likely lose several guys due to transfer and they'll KEEP picking up studs, but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy. If it was an open, I believe there are weights they'd very possibly have multiple Wrestlers at. This next year, 157 pops to mind.
The gap between them and anyone else is enormous. And it's not hard to see why. Looking at the Open, Trials, Final X, you've got NLWC on NLWC crime!
Lee, Zain, Dake, Taylor, Snyder...and guys like Nolf, Gilman, Brooks.
but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy.
Their second stringers would not win a team trophy. Now you are just talking nonsense. Give it a rest!
Maybe not win but I will.bet you theyfi ish top 5. I am sure no one wants to hear that from wisco sin but what PSU is doing they may have world.tesm medalist as back up so let think this over!
What PSU is doing is unheard of at this level!
Backups finishing top 5??? Not a chance! Look at PSU historically and they haven't had more than two, possibly three backups on one roster who were AA material and probably low AAs. You have to have several high AAs to finish top 5. PSU's A squad will undoubtedly have many high AAs, but the second stringers hypothetically would have ony a few AAs at best. Many guys who are stuck behind a high AA will look to transfer. Also, just because a guy won some international medals doesn't make him a high AA otherwise Amos and Rowley would have produced more than 0 NCAA points. So some of the guys you are hyping won't even produce at NCAAs. Robbie Howard was another guy who was hyped up quite a bit, but due to injuries, he's been a non-factor at NCAAs. I realize PSU is a powerhouse and will be favored often in the future to win as long as Cael is in charge but some of you get carried away into crazy thinking.
Quote from: npope on June 25, 2023, 06:53:23 AMGentlemen, you are seeing the end of our sport as we know it...and any number of other non-profit sponsored collegiate sports. And it will come sooner than you think. Put football and mens basketball is a separate box because they actually make money for their respective schools - they will, and have been, treated differently. But NIL money and its concentration at a limited number of wrestling programs will create a very limited number of "haves" and many "have nots." Once that imbalance becomes the norm, the perennial (limited number of) winners will be identified - as will the non-winners, i.e., the "losers." The supporters of the losers will quickly lose interest and move on to other fandom-interests (it is just our nature as fans) and will most certainly abandon support for minor collegiate sports; PSU and Iowa maybe the kings, but their kingdom will only include four programs - all of the others will have been disbanded/dismantled. Wrestling as we know it will be absorbed by professional MMA-type endeavors and lose their once strong affiliation with specific schools (and their athletic supporters).
Professional sports, e.g., NFL, NBA, etc., only survive because the games' managers ensure that a certain amount of the wealth is spread around to ensure a competitive environment where even losers have chance at success. Collegiate wrestling cannot make the same boast under these current dynamics; repeatedly heading into PSU or Iowa and coming out with one or no wins will lose its competitive appeal to the average fan, and there aren't enough interested billionaire fans to come to the rescue of the uncompetitive teams.
This move away from limited scholarships and toward paying amateur athletes unequal wages is our sport's death knell - and you will see the end of the sport within a decade. Think it can't happen? Remember collegiate boxing? I thought not.
I agree!
I have been sounding this alarm to my friends as soon as the NIL thing was on the horizon. In reality, FB and BB have been doing this forever albeit "illegally". The NCAA would "catch" some lesser programs and crush them for effect all the while allowing a Wild West scenario to play out.
The one thing I will add is that it won't just be "non revenue" sports. The reality is that most DI football programs do not make money either. They will be gone as well.
Lastly, you laid it out better than I could have.
Quote from: npope on June 25, 2023, 06:53:23 AMGentlemen, you are seeing the end of our sport as we know it...and any number of other non-profit sponsored collegiate sports. And it will come sooner than you think. Put football and mens basketball is a separate box because they actually make money for their respective schools - they will, and have been, treated differently. But NIL money and its concentration at a limited number of wrestling programs will create a very limited number of "haves" and many "have nots." Once that imbalance becomes the norm, the perennial (limited number of) winners will be identified - as will the non-winners, i.e., the "losers." The supporters of the losers will quickly lose interest and move on to other fandom-interests (it is just our nature as fans) and will most certainly abandon support for minor collegiate sports; PSU and Iowa maybe the kings, but their kingdom will only include four programs - all of the others will have been disbanded/dismantled. Wrestling as we know it will be absorbed by professional MMA-type endeavors and lose their once strong affiliation with specific schools (and their athletic supporters).
Professional sports, e.g., NFL, NBA, etc., only survive because the games' managers ensure that a certain amount of the wealth is spread around to ensure a competitive environment where even losers have chance at success. Collegiate wrestling cannot make the same boast under these current dynamics; repeatedly heading into PSU or Iowa and coming out with one or no wins will lose its competitive appeal to the average fan, and there aren't enough interested billionaire fans to come to the rescue of the uncompetitive teams.
This move away from limited scholarships and toward paying amateur athletes unequal wages is our sport's death knell - and you will see the end of the sport within a decade. Think it can't happen? Remember collegiate boxing? I thought not.
Quote from: BadgerOne on June 25, 2023, 07:52:46 AMQuote from: littleguy301 on June 25, 2023, 02:23:21 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 24, 2023, 10:52:25 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 24, 2023, 03:11:12 AMQuote from: littleguy301 on June 17, 2023, 10:52:42 AMI agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I. Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!
It's really unprecedented. And it's not just the upper weights with PSU. Those are a little more ridiculous than the others, but they're doubling/tripling up at the light weights and they still have Robbie Howard and now Nagao who have 7 years left between the two. Lillendahl, Gibson, Kasak...it's really not even worth doing this anymore. It's not comparable and that's before accounting for how PSU develops Wrestlers. The growth at PSU is as impressive as their recruiting...which until very recently, hasn't been THAT good. Cael brought some great Wrestlers with him, but it's not like he's just had more talent. He's developed Wrestlers. Guys like Cassar who was struggling to make the lineup, jumps up to HWT and runs through the weight class and is the only one to beat Gable Stevenson.
They'll likely lose several guys due to transfer and they'll KEEP picking up studs, but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy. If it was an open, I believe there are weights they'd very possibly have multiple Wrestlers at. This next year, 157 pops to mind.
The gap between them and anyone else is enormous. And it's not hard to see why. Looking at the Open, Trials, Final X, you've got NLWC on NLWC crime!
Lee, Zain, Dake, Taylor, Snyder...and guys like Nolf, Gilman, Brooks.
but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy.
Their second stringers would not win a team trophy. Now you are just talking nonsense. Give it a rest!
Maybe not win but I will.bet you theyfi ish top 5. I am sure no one wants to hear that from wisco sin but what PSU is doing they may have world.tesm medalist as back up so let think this over!
What PSU is doing is unheard of at this level!
Backups finishing top 5??? Not a chance! Look at PSU historically and they haven't had more than two, possibly three backups on one roster who were AA material and probably low AAs. You have to have several high AAs to finish top 5. PSU's A squad will undoubtedly have many high AAs, but the second stringers hypothetically would have ony a few AAs at best. Many guys who are stuck behind a high AA will look to transfer. Also, just because a guy won some international medals doesn't make him a high AA otherwise Amos and Rowley would have produced more than 0 NCAA points. So some of the guys you are hyping won't even produce at NCAAs. Robbie Howard was another guy who was hyped up quite a bit, but due to injuries, he's been a non-factor at NCAAs. I realize PSU is a powerhouse and will be favored often in the future to win as long as Cael is in charge but some of you get carried away into crazy thinking.
Maybe I was getting carried away a.vit. though I will say if they have 2 to 3 low AA. That is enough to place top 15ish overall.
If PSU has had this 10 year run they are.just reloading much did Iowa in their historic run also.
Why are the senior level guys all running to the nitty lions wrestling club. They are doing something right.
PSU has put the plan out there to.be successful and while some want to be AA or natty champs others want that world medal also.
Money talks and gets kid through some tough times. Whoever has the cash is.going to be at the top in today's environment!
College boxing was disbanded by the NCAA after almost all of the schools dropped it because athletes were dying because of injuries sustained while competing. Nothing to do with NIL or professional boxing. Wisconsin was considered an elite team and even they dropped the sport after one of their athletes died from injuries.
Collegiate wrestling isn't going anywhere. Pretty sure it was 3-4 schools running roughshod over everyone else 30 years ago also. I don't recall Slippery Rock bringing home a team trophy in the 90's. But I do remember Iowa looking unstoppable. But yet a team did eventually come along and take Iowa down.
The point wasn't that they are similar sports but rather, that a fully embraced NCAA sport can disappear in the blink of an eye - look no further than NCAA boxing. Hope you're around in five years to continue this conversation.
I believe alot od this NIL money in the non profit sports is a tad over blown to some extent.
Lots of these kids aren't on big scholarships and do have to pay for their schooling and believe it or not they have to pay taxes on this money.
So I hear of all this money being thrown around and athletes like world team members are making far less than what I hear these college athletes in wrestling are making and I would think that wouldn't sit well with the world team members.
I some what agree with you npope that if it isn't regulated to some degree the colleges will look at non revenue sports and look to cut them if millions are going to athletes and colleges are losing millions. Which I don't believe that is the case in alot of this.
I am sure athletes are getting a good amount don't get.me wrong but I also believe some of the dollar amounts are over blown to some degree.
Cost of school
Living expense
Taxes
What the NIL involves
Just a few things to look at in the long run.
What do you think the World Team members can do about how much collegiate athletes get paid? If they have eligibility, they can partake. Otherwise they are two different things.
Everyone has living expenses, taxes, and school costs. NIL is separate from their scholarship. I posted this before, if a 5th place AA gets $100,000 your base team salary is $1,000,000 per season if you expect to be in the running for a team trophy.
Quote from: littleguy301 on June 25, 2023, 08:50:07 PMI believe alot od this NIL money in the non profit sports is a tad over blown to some extent.
Lots of these kids aren't on big scholarships and do have to pay for their schooling and believe it or not they have to pay taxes on this money.
So I hear of all this money being thrown around and athletes like world team members are making far less than what I hear these college athletes in wrestling are making and I would think that wouldn't sit well with the world team members.
I some what agree with you npope that if it isn't regulated to some degree the colleges will look at non revenue sports and look to cut them if millions are going to athletes and colleges are losing millions. Which I don't believe that is the case in alot of this.
I am sure athletes are getting a good amount don't get.me wrong but I also believe some of the dollar amounts are over blown to some degree.
Cost of school
Living expense
Taxes
What the NIL involves
Just a few things to look at in the long run.
Quote from: MNbadger on June 25, 2023, 10:16:32 PMWhat do you think the World Team members can do about how much collegiate athletes get paid? If they have eligibility, they can partake. Otherwise they are two different things.
Your missing the point. These RTC athletes working with the college athletes will be making much much less money than th themes and they have alot more credentials.
The 100k old be to cover 30k education and room and board. What are these schools going to kick off kids all ready on scholarships to Brin these transfers in for 1 year. NIL is also being used as a way to get their school paid for also.
Do we now rename scholarships as 100k, 50k, 250k depends on where you go.
I agree other than one premise. It is not the losses of "fandoms" that will kill the sport as much as administrators themselves.
Lots of wrestling teams have very few fans now and never had many just like other olympic non-revenue sports. Universities offer these under and outdated model of collegiate athletics. Some universities sponsor a lot more sports than others.
Now that the model of collegiate athletics is altered to a more professional model and that altruistic athletic dept is going to start dropping sports beyond just wrestling. But wrestling is going to be hit the hardest first because it has the fewest amount of D1 teams. At some point there are going to be about 25-30 30 D1 teams total in the country. Which ones can last that long? The other problem with wrestling is the "olympic sports" model. Folkstyle wrestling is not an olympic sport. Maybe more NIL type money will funnel to national training centers for freestyle and greco rather than to universities.
Wrestling is headed to the D3 model. D3 schools want lots of wrestlers because sports are a way of recruiting students to pay tuition.
Quote from: littleguy301 on June 25, 2023, 02:23:21 AMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 24, 2023, 10:52:25 AMQuote from: Vir Fortis on June 24, 2023, 03:11:12 AMQuote from: littleguy301 on June 17, 2023, 10:52:42 AMI agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I. Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!
It's really unprecedented. And it's not just the upper weights with PSU. Those are a little more ridiculous than the others, but they're doubling/tripling up at the light weights and they still have Robbie Howard and now Nagao who have 7 years left between the two. Lillendahl, Gibson, Kasak...it's really not even worth doing this anymore. It's not comparable and that's before accounting for how PSU develops Wrestlers. The growth at PSU is as impressive as their recruiting...which until very recently, hasn't been THAT good. Cael brought some great Wrestlers with him, but it's not like he's just had more talent. He's developed Wrestlers. Guys like Cassar who was struggling to make the lineup, jumps up to HWT and runs through the weight class and is the only one to beat Gable Stevenson.
They'll likely lose several guys due to transfer and they'll KEEP picking up studs, but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy. If it was an open, I believe there are weights they'd very possibly have multiple Wrestlers at. This next year, 157 pops to mind.
The gap between them and anyone else is enormous. And it's not hard to see why. Looking at the Open, Trials, Final X, you've got NLWC on NLWC crime!
Lee, Zain, Dake, Taylor, Snyder...and guys like Nolf, Gilman, Brooks.
but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy.
Their second stringers would not win a team trophy. Now you are just talking nonsense. Give it a rest!
Maybe not win but I will.bet you theyfi ish top 5. I am sure no one wants to hear that from wisco sin but what PSU is doing they may have world.tesm medalist as back up so let think this over!
What PSU is doing is unheard of at this level!
I mean...if you're saying they're 5th, they're just one spot out of a team trophy.
I don't think BadgerOne actually understands or realizes the talent PSU has coming in. I think you'll see plenty of guys transferring out because they may be stuck.
But even at 125, you've got guys like Howard, Davis(who barely gets talked about as he's the "measley" 30th ranked recruit). Nasdeo is the 91st ranked PFP recruit. Lillendahl(#2). Gibson(#8). Nagao(5th as a Freshmen).
That's 125 and 133 the next couple years(and I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple guys). LOL...it's ridiculous. Kasak will be there at the same time Van Ness, Mesenbrink, Haines(top 2 in the Country right now IMO at 157). Erik Gibson is also projected to Wrestle there. So a just two weights where they've had a Freshmen who took 3rd and a runner-up, they're adding ridiculous talent and depth. And that's not even touching the upper weights where they've got even more depth.
This really is just unprecedented. PSU has been dominating with a couple of top 10 Wrestlers a year(maybe). Now they're getting 6 in a class+2 AA transfers, a kid like Mesenbrink. I think PSU's biggest competition for the foreseeable future is going to be in the room.
Quote from: Troy Grindle on June 25, 2023, 07:32:59 PMCollege boxing was disbanded by the NCAA after almost all of the schools dropped it because athletes were dying because of injuries sustained while competing. Nothing to do with NIL or professional boxing. Wisconsin was considered an elite team and even they dropped the sport after one of their athletes died from injuries.
Collegiate wrestling isn't going anywhere. Pretty sure it was 3-4 schools running roughshod over everyone else 30 years ago also. I don't recall Slippery Rock bringing home a team trophy in the 90's. But I do remember Iowa looking unstoppable. But yet a team did eventually come along and take Iowa down.
I agree with this completely. Ultimately...is this really any different than Iowa's dominance in the 80s? You might not have seen it coming as clearly as you can see it with PSU right now, but one team dominating isn't going to kill the sport because that's how it's always been. Boise State still competes in Football even though 'Bama and UGA get 15 top 250 recruits.
Success means different things for different programs. It's not win the NC or bust for the vast majority of teams or Wrestling never would have grown.
I'd guess there are fewer different schools to win a National Title as a team in Wrestling than any other sport. It's basically Okie State, Iowa, Iowa State, Penn State and then a few other programs have a title. Oklahoma, Minnesota, ASU...I think MSU and Indiana won titles in the early years.
Vir Fortis tell me which PSU backups could hypothetically AA next year. Other than 165 where there is both Facundo and Messenbrink, I don't see any backups that would score many points at NCAAs. Put up or shut up! You claim the second team is a podium team, but you can't use any starters so Howard, Nagao, Barlett, Van Ness, Haines, the starter between Facundo and Messenbrink, Staroccci, Truax and Kerkvliet can't be in the lineup. Give the lineup of backups that is a podium team, so we can all see how ridiculous your assertions are.
Quote from: littleguy301 on June 26, 2023, 05:54:00 AMQuote from: MNbadger on June 25, 2023, 10:16:32 PMWhat do you think the World Team members can do about how much collegiate athletes get paid? If they have eligibility, they can partake. Otherwise they are two different things.
Your missing the point. These RTC athletes working with the college athletes will be making much much less money than th themes and they have alot more credentials.
The 100k old be to cover 30k education and room and board. What are these schools going to kick off kids all ready on scholarships to Brin these transfers in for 1 year. NIL is also being used as a way to get their school paid for also.
Do we now rename scholarships as 100k, 50k, 250k depends on where you go.
Not $30,000 but rather $50,000 to gross up for taxes as I think you may have pointed out earlier.
How crazy is it that it's even being discussed that Gable could possibly be at Iowa? Certainly no fan of the U but if he wrestles, it has to be Minnesota right? Well not if Iowa offers $500K, $1M?
Quote from: bigoil on June 26, 2023, 07:41:39 PMQuote from: littleguy301 on June 26, 2023, 05:54:00 AMQuote from: MNbadger on June 25, 2023, 10:16:32 PMWhat do you think the World Team members can do about how much collegiate athletes get paid? If they have eligibility, they can partake. Otherwise they are two different things.
Your missing the point. These RTC athletes working with the college athletes will be making much much less money than th themes and they have alot more credentials.
The 100k old be to cover 30k education and room and board. What are these schools going to kick off kids all ready on scholarships to Brin these transfers in for 1 year. NIL is also being used as a way to get their school paid for also.
Do we now rename scholarships as 100k, 50k, 250k depends on where you go.
Not $30,000 but rather $50,000 to gross up for taxes as I think you may have pointed out earlier.
How crazy is it that it's even being discussed that Gable could possibly be at Iowa? Certainly no fan of the U but if he wrestles, it has to be Minnesota right? Well not if Iowa offers $500K, $1M?
Well if iowa offers 1 million o Gable to wrestle npope is going to be right. Their is alot of grumbling in Iowa during/after covid about athletic department money. I know NIL is privately raised buy is really going to cast a serious doubt as to how much colleges are going to fund sports.
What is going on with gambling for Iowa athletes that I've been hearing about, especially in regards to the wrestling team.
Quote from: bigoil on June 27, 2023, 10:21:34 AMWhat is going on with gambling for Iowa athletes that I've been hearing about, especially in regards to the wrestling team.
Several Iowa wrestlers are currently being questioned and investigated, but the NCAA just released new guidelines that will mitigate any potential suspensions. They will most likely receive a more lenient punishment for those that gambled under 200.00.
The NCAA has to be careful with this investigation because there are kids on every team in the NCAA playing fantasy football or playing poker on-line or playing in a Thursday night poker game. These kids were betting on the NFL "not" NCAA games, still against the rules and suspensions are likely.
I understand how gambling could kill sports so I understand the concern and NCAA penalty's, But these kids didn't commit a crime so I hope they are dealt with fairly.
With Iowa bringing in the NDSU AA they covered their lineup if they lose anyone.
the Gable rumor going to Iowa is beyond funny!! Gable has been all over the media saying "if" the WWE allows him to wrestle he would return to MN. Don't believe the trolls.
Quote from: BadgerOne on June 26, 2023, 07:13:10 PMVir Fortis tell me which PSU backups could hypothetically AA next year. Other than 165 where there is both Facundo and Messenbrink, I don't see any backups that would score many points at NCAAs. Put up or shut up! You claim the second team is a podium team, but you can't use any starters so Howard, Nagao, Barlett, Van Ness, Haines, the starter between Facundo and Messenbrink, Staroccci, Truax and Kerkvliet can't be in the lineup. Give the lineup of backups that is a podium team, so we can all see how ridiculous your assertions are.
I believe I was pretty clear when I said IF they kept everyone(which I don't think they'll do as backup AA's tend to transfer like Beard)...and in several years and then you moved the goalposts to next year.
And going back and reading my posts, it's kinda obnoxious how many times I've listed their recruits. But lets just start with take 84/97. You could have the Mirasola brothers or you could have Barr and Ryder(who is skipping his Sr year to train with the NLWC). Whoever are the backups there. They could be AAs.
'25/'33-Nagao/Lillendahl/Gibson/Nasdeo/Wetzel/Brock Weiss Whoever is the backup there in a couple years
'49-'65-Kasak/Van Ness/Erik Gibson/Messenbrink/Haines/Facundo/Sealy
And I'm missing so many guys and this is silly. But there, I put up. Take pick a starter and then there are 2-3 guys at each spot who's not even there yet in most cases who could end up AAs. And it's not like it's a reach since there are weights with multiple World Medalists or Freshmen AAs.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on August 14, 2023, 07:08:20 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on June 26, 2023, 07:13:10 PMVir Fortis tell me which PSU backups could hypothetically AA next year. Other than 165 where there is both Facundo and Messenbrink, I don't see any backups that would score many points at NCAAs. Put up or shut up! You claim the second team is a podium team, but you can't use any starters so Howard, Nagao, Barlett, Van Ness, Haines, the starter between Facundo and Messenbrink, Staroccci, Truax and Kerkvliet can't be in the lineup. Give the lineup of backups that is a podium team, so we can all see how ridiculous your assertions are.
I believe I was pretty clear when I said IF they kept everyone(which I don't think they'll do as backup AA's tend to transfer like Beard)...and in several years and then you moved the goalposts to next year.
And going back and reading my posts, it's kinda obnoxious how many times I've listed their recruits. But lets just start with take 84/97. You could have the Mirasola brothers or you could have Barr and Ryder(who is skipping his Sr year to train with the NLWC). Whoever are the backups there. They could be AAs.
'25/'33-Nagao/Lillendahl/Gibson/Nasdeo/Wetzel/Brock Weiss Whoever is the backup there in a couple years
'49-'65-Kasak/Van Ness/Erik Gibson/Messenbrink/Haines/Facundo/Sealy
And I'm missing so many guys and this is silly. But there, I put up. Take pick a starter and then there are 2-3 guys at each spot who's not even there yet in most cases who could end up AAs. And it's not like it's a reach since there are weights with multiple World Medalists or Freshmen AAs.
There you go again! I don't see a bunch of backups whether or not they were former medalists like Braxon Amos or James Rowley, being a podium team. And you admit if they are good enough to AA they will likely transfer (and I agree with that, which is where you have moved your goalposts). I'd say its close to zero percent chance that PSU's backups could finish top 5 in the AAs. Guys want to start and other schools like Iowa, Michigan and Ohio State are viable alternatives. Plus, there are a significant number of age level medalists that never AA or high AA in college and Wisconsin has had a couple of these guys and because your hypothetical team is comprised of backups, they are even more likely to not AA than the typical medalist.
Can you posters please stop using the "QUOTE"box when you post a reply? I ain't got that much time to waste scrolling endlessly to get to your actual new comments.
Plus my eyes are about to fall out of my head when I see all the vertical lines while scrolling on my phone.
Thanks in advance.
Quote from: BadgerOne on August 15, 2023, 09:03:42 AMThere you go again! I don't see a bunch of backups whether or not they were former medalists like Braxon Amos or James Rowley, being a podium team. And you admit if they are good enough to AA they will likely transfer (and I agree with that, which is where you have moved your goalposts). I'd say its close to zero percent chance that PSU's backups could finish top 5 in the AAs. Guys want to start and other schools like Iowa, Michigan and Ohio State are viable alternatives. Plus, there are a significant number of age level medalists that never AA or high AA in college and Wisconsin has had a couple of these guys and because your hypothetical team is comprised of backups, they are even more likely to not AA than the typical medalist.
I did? Don't think so. I think I said there's every chance they could lose to ANOTHER Word Champ or Medalist and then transfer because they're behind a NC or AA.
But I also gotta say I'm just all not that interested in what you can or cannot see.
It's not like there's a History of this with PSU. Bubba Jenkins DEFINITELY didn't take a 2nd, then transfer because PSU was loaded at 149/57/65 and Wrestle another Penn State kid in the finals or Beard didn't just take a 7th and then have Dean recruited over him.
I guess you could keep going on about it or we could just...ya know, see what happens?
Quote from: Vir Fortis on September 02, 2023, 09:50:19 PMQuote from: BadgerOne on August 15, 2023, 09:03:42 AMThere you go again! I don't see a bunch of backups whether or not they were former medalists like Braxon Amos or James Rowley, being a podium team. And you admit if they are good enough to AA they will likely transfer (and I agree with that, which is where you have moved your goalposts). I'd say its close to zero percent chance that PSU's backups could finish top 5 in the AAs. Guys want to start and other schools like Iowa, Michigan and Ohio State are viable alternatives. Plus, there are a significant number of age level medalists that never AA or high AA in college and Wisconsin has had a couple of these guys and because your hypothetical team is comprised of backups, they are even more likely to not AA than the typical medalist.
I did? Don't think so. I think I said there's every chance they could lose to ANOTHER Word Champ or Medalist and then transfer because they're behind a NC or AA.
But I also gotta say I'm just all not that interested in what you can or cannot see.
It's not like there's a History of this with PSU. Bubba Jenkins DEFINITELY didn't take a 2nd, then transfer because PSU was loaded at 149/57/65 and Wrestle another Penn State kid in the finals or Beard didn't just take a 7th and then have Dean recruited over him.
I guess you could keep going on about it or we could just...ya know, see what happens?
You started this rant about PSU backups, so you are the one going on about it, and I've just responded to it. I couldn't care less if you are interested or not in what I see, though I don't think I used that term. Likewise, I am not interested in what you see. But it's an open board and you have right to state your opinions just as I have right to state mine, whether anybody cares or not.
So. Angelo Ferrari.
Thoughts?
What about him?
He went to Iowa, saw him wrestle the other night with Iowa guys in his corner. ;D
Quote from: leg turk on September 04, 2023, 03:39:32 PMWhat about him?
The title of this thread is Angelo Ferrari.
I thought he looked good at Who's Number One. His dad looks like he could rip a person in half if he wanted to.