Wisconsin Wrestling Online

5 years into the Chris Bono era in Madison
The question I have, Are the Badgers better under Bono then they were under Davis?
Just wondering everyone's opinion

FUNNY! I was just thinking that same question this morning. Answer - not seeing it. Still too many holes in the line up and the fire I thought I saw to grind out matches seems to be gone too. They seem to be hanging on at the end hoping it is enough.

Definitely a lateral coaching change. I thought things would've definitely got better, but I'm not seeing it. Lots of holes yet is right.

I think they are a good program.  I also think that the Wisconsin "leakage", whatever the reasons for it, really hurts the program both in terms of talent but also in the excitement factor.  Not to beat a dead horse (or start another dreadful 3 week argument on here) but I think the interest (and the success) would grow substantially if they were able to keep more of the in-state kids. 

And who on their team has had a better 2022-23 than their previous year??

Mark of a good coach is year over year improvement in athletes.  Dont see that happening with Bono, it is unfortunate for the athletes that they arent getting better guidance.

Maybe he can get lucky and pillage the transfer portal this offseason.

Quote from: heavy9278 on February 11, 2023, 05:24:33 PM5 years into the Chris Bono era in Madison
The question I have, Are the Badgers better under Bono then they were under Davis?
Just wondering everyone's opinion

Ask again in 5 weeks.

Barnett is better (he may have won 5-4 today but he was the aggressor), gomez is better, Model is better, Dean is great and also better, Amos is better.

Zargo I think was better, then was injured. Remember Joe never placed in NJ states, I'd say he has definitely improved since walking in.

Dow has improved as well, has more confidence.

Hilger is just good.

Otto didn't start last year so can't say much. 

I also believe some of these guys are trying new things.

Why does this question constantly come up? What are all of you looking for? A top 3 to 5 finish every year? That's ridiculous expectations outside of Penn State and Iowa.
I wonder if the Penn, Rutgers, NC state, Arizona state and numerous other schools fans do this stuff every year and question the leadership. Outside of Penn State and Iowa you're just not going to get that every year.
I think Bono, Reader and Gross are doing a good job. Especially when you have the biggest club in the state actively rooting against you and steering their kids elsewhere. A change in leadership to Ben Askren would be another lateral move in my opinion especially since he has zero NCAA head coaching experience. Yes I know he's great at wrestling and his club is very successful, that doesn't necessarily mean he is going to be a great Big10 coach. There really are only two great big10 coaches if your measurement is top 3 every year.

Bigoil(Mike), let me borrow your rose colored glasses and maybe ill see the same thing as you.

OC- I have had really high level success at everything I have tried, so I am sure I would do fine.  Don't really want to give up the freedom I have in my life to coach at a college.

A great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMBigoil(Mike), let me borrow your rose colored glasses and maybe ill see the same thing as you.

OC- I have had really high level success at everything I have tried, so I am sure I would do fine.  Don't really want to give up the freedom I have in my life to coach at a college.

A great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

Ben,

Who on my list isn't better?

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMBigoil(Mike), let me borrow your rose colored glasses and maybe ill see the same thing as you.

OC- I have had really high level success at everything I have tried, so I am sure I would do fine.  Don't really want to give up the freedom I have in my life to coach at a college.

A great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

Although I think Nick Becker is an excellent wrestler and coach I do not think he would be able to move UW into the top 3 to 5 year after year.

Quote from: heavy9278 on February 11, 2023, 05:24:33 PM5 years into the Chris Bono era in Madison
The question I have, Are the Badgers better under Bono then they were under Davis?
Just wondering everyone's opinion

It's a tough question to ask at this point.

You have the state's premier club and they are pretty open about refusing any contact with the Badgers(their top Wrestlers). So that's...not really different than with Davis, what's different is that those kids are consistently becoming D1 Studs.

Now you also have Pinnacle and the Cross Brothers who are working in less populated area's and they're producing some great athletes. Hopke could probably AA right not(not really, but he's very good).

So the level of talent in-state going to UW hasn't really changed.

But Bono is looking under every stone it would appear and finding some really good talent. Gross, Gomez, Hamiti, Zargo is a kid I think has a lot more upside, Amos was obviously a blue chip recruit.


Someone said ask in 5 weeks. I'll say give him until the end of next year. If you can get a kid like Davino, Ferrari or...that monster up in Amery, I'd argue things are moving in the right direction and getting better.


Covid also threw a wrench into things. Lets see how Rivera, Estrada, Rowley...there is a lot of young talent.


Hopefully we can all be grownup's and there can be a sit-down like adults. Until then, Wisconsin is not going to be the best version it can be. Frankly, even if they're winning, it still hurts as everyone here who is a Badger fan wants to see Sinclair, Millard, Messenbrink, Mirasola(s) and others who aren't considering Wisconsin wrestle at Wisconsin...basically the kids we've watched for years.

It's now "OWED" to anyone, we're not entitled, so please, anyone feigning outrage or benign talking points spare me. It's nice to see O'Toole win. It'd hit different if he did so at Wisconsin.



I'll also just add this...if you measuring the Badgers success vs Ohio State, Iowa and PSU, I think every team in the Country is going to fall WELL short.

PSU is getting BETTER the next few years with their young talent and then the Bassett and Gibson families along with...so many other elite wrestlers it'd almost be funny if it wasn't for Ohio State pulling in the best recruiting class in THEIR history last year and Iowa...IOWA pulling in THEIR best recruiting class ever this year. Seriously...if IOWA throws their best team out, Ohio State has THEIR best recruiting class(even better than the one with Phillips who was a Kyle Snyder, Spencer Lee type Recruit who just got burned out, but for those who don't remember...Logan Stieber was unanimously regarded as the #2 recruit...from his own HS...in his own class).



So we'll see. I'm optimistic though and I think Bono has them going the right way.

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 07:07:02 PMAnd who on their team has had a better 2022-23 than their previous year??

Mark of a good coach is year over year improvement in athletes.  Dont see that happening with Bono, it is unfortunate for the athletes that they arent getting better guidance.

Maybe he can get lucky and pillage the transfer portal this offseason.

The pettiness and adults in the room setting aside their collective egos that has been referenced in previous posts...guess that's not gonna happen, huh?

Did Gomez not beat YIANNI this year?

And the whole other list of Wrestlers already named?

Quote from: ocwrestler on February 11, 2023, 08:37:57 PM

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMBigoil(Mike), let me borrow your rose colored glasses and maybe ill see the same thing as you.

OC- I have had really high level success at everything I have tried, so I am sure I would do fine.  Don't really want to give up the freedom I have in my life to coach at a college.

A great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

Although I think Nick Becker is an excellent wrestler and coach I do not think he would be able to move UW into the top 3 to 5 year after year.

Ok, to be clear, I think with the talent that I alluded to with Ohio State;
https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-wrestling/2021/11/126649/ohio-state-signs-historic-recruiting-class-featuring-the-top-three-overall-prospects-in-the-class-of-2022

Iowa following THAT up with THEIR best recruiting class ever;
https://iowawrestlingblog.com/2022/11/hawks-sign-best-recruiting-class-ever/

And then Penn State who...again, as I've said since seeing him last year with Haines as another potential Freshman NC(it was not as likely when I said it as it is now) and the very real possibility he's going to have to redshirt or a guy like Facundo may get bumped out of the lineup due to the talent their bringing in...I don't think top 3 is a reasonable starting point for any HC. Just like I don't think expecting Fickell to get into the CFPs is reasonable. It takes everything going right at Wisconsin.


WITH THAT SAID...and again, now advocating for the removal of Bono, but can I ask why you think Becker wouldn't be a successful head coach?


I have absolutely ZERO doubt Becker would be a great coach at Wisconsin. I think had he chosen to Wrestle D1, he could have had a lot of success.

He also comes from a family almost annoyingly nice...when they're not ripping your arms off on the mat.
He'd have Brothers who would almost certainly help him and I believe he'd also be able to put together a great staff.


And Becker doesn't have an Ego. When his kids win, it's their win. It's not about him as you occasionally see with some coaches with the self promotion.


If for some reason Bono was not the Badgers Head Coach, there is not a better candidate I can think of to lead Wisconsin Wrestling. Again, granting he'd have trouble pushing them into the top 3 in the near term.

Of course...in a few short years, he'd no doubt get many of the same labels by some as I don't believe it's actually the Coach, but the institution some people take issue with.

"Maybe he can get lucky and pillage the transfer portal this offseason."

He'll have to since you seem to discourage your club's top wrestlers from even considering attending Wisconsin.

Our erstwhile "bag of milk" has decided to chime in from the peanut gallery with his observations on another University of Wisconsin wrestling head coach. Now one may say well he would be no different than you are or I am, just a fan, right? Someone interested in the sport, maybe passionate about it. However, I would argue given the responsibility that he has in the lives of young men as a trainer, mentor and guide, to continuously put down others who do put themselves on the line and whose employment status does stand or fall on wins and losses regardless of whether a loss was due to a bad call, bad injury or sheer bad luck, I think requires a little more respect, tact and a smidgen of humility that most coaches generally adopt lest one of their colleagues attacks them. Apparently Mr. Askren feels he's bound by none of this. You cut down Barry Davis, you're doing the same thing to Bono and you'll do the same to any UW head wrestling coach unless they kiss your rings, your butt or perhaps some other part of your anatomy or unless they give you something you want, perhaps one of your toadies as head coach (why even mention Nick Becker at all?)

Actually I think you had what you wanted or should have wanted, if not a head coaching position in Madison (which I think is smart lest you violate so many NCAA rules you'd put the Badgers on probation again), at least running the RTC. Yet for some penny-anne reason you decided you could no longer work there. Which is sad in a way because you lost whatever chance to have the opportunity to help or have input with the Badger wrestlers to improve themselves over the course of a season. Now what's left, slinging brickbats? Is that all?

As for Bono's tenure as head coach, it's pretty much a wash right now in comparison to other UW coaches from a record standpoint. Although given the fact it's rare when a UW wrestling team gets close enough to Iowa to even tie the Hawkeyes at all, he should be given some credit for that. The fact it was the largest crowd ever to witness a UW wrestling meet, I think he should be given some credit for that too. While the record hasn't been great this season in particular given a healthy Gomez (oh what do you know, a transfer!) and one figures a Midlands team title and dual wins over Illinois, Northwestern and Minnesota. Such are the breaks and hopefully he'll be healthy soon.

But here's the rub. If we've decided to move on from Coach Bono now (and moi all warned you UW's wrestling problems were bigger than one coach and continuously hiring and firing coaches would not necessarily fix them) I guarantee you since Mr. Askren seems to be bound and determined to be "King of Wisconsin Wrestling", you're not going to get a lot of applications, certainly not from leaders of other D-I programs. Because no coach worth their salt would enter into a situation where one's success depended upon the whims of a club director. No, being a head coach on the D-I level is fraught with challenges enough that one tries to avoid those that are avoidable.

And quite frankly Mr. Askren, what do you care? Your not a UW alumn. It's no skin off your nose what happens in Madison. So is it too much to ask you leave UW wrestling in peace and stop this ugly dispute even if you do hate the school and anything it seems connected to it? It benefits no one and simply divides fans in this state. For once just consider that silence sometimes is indeed gold.   

Quote from: wrestlemania on February 11, 2023, 11:30:20 PM
But here's the rub. If we've decided to move on from Coach Bono now (and moi all warned you UW's wrestling problems were bigger than one coach and continuously hiring and firing coaches would not necessarily fix them) I guarantee you since Mr. Askren seems to be bound and determined to be "King of Wisconsin Wrestling", you're not going to get a lot of applications, certainly not from leaders of other D-I programs. Because no coach worth their salt would enter into a situation where one's success depended upon the whims of club director. No, being a head coach on the D-I level is fraught with challenges enough that one tries to avoid those that are avoidable.

Brian Smith might be a good candidate  :o

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMOC- I have had really high level success at everything I have tried, so I am sure I would do fine.  Don't really want to give up the freedom I have in my life to coach at a college.

A great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

I think Ben would be a great hire and would have been a great hire 5 years ago.  Like he said he has had success at everything he's tried (except boxing).  I also think Bono is doing a better job now than Barry Davis did during the last 5 years or so that Davis ran the program.

I don't know if Ben will answer this, but would the handful of AWA wrestlers on the Badger roster be better / contributors if Nick Becker was the coach? or if Ben was the coach?

As an example, and not to single him out (even though I am), Aidan Medora was 135-6 with 2 state titles and 2 runner-up finishes in HS and was a Fargo runner-up, super 32 all-american,  and flo-nationals all-american but can't crack the badgers regular lineup and the couple chances he has had to wrestle in duals he has not performed well.

Josh Otto had similar accolades (better national rankings) coming out of HS too and he is in the starting lineup.

I know Medora didn't have a real HS team and has spent countless hours at AWA.  I'm sure he goes there to wrestle during holiday breaks and likely in the summer too.  Is the stall / slower progress in his development because of Bono / Reader / Gross or has he reached his potential?  If Ben or Nick Becker were the Badgers coach would they be able to get more out of a wrestler like Medora?

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMBigoil(Mike), let me borrow your rose colored glasses and maybe ill see the same thing as you.

OC- I have had really high level success at everything I have tried, so I am sure I would do fine.  Don't really want to give up the freedom I have in my life to coach at a college.

A great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

Parkside is done incredible! Won the NSIC, went into st cloud and handed them their first conference loss at home in like 12 years.

Nick has also become well known around the state to the wrestlers by getting involved in Fargo teams, communication and pimping up a program in the woods!

I had a chance to catch a dual at parkside this year. Nice place, fun environment and being a supporter of the other team in the dual, coach Becker wasnt above anything and said hi in passing. Supper cool and cannt say enough good things about what coach Becker is doing!

Quote from: wrestlemania on February 11, 2023, 11:30:20 PM"Maybe he can get lucky and pillage the transfer portal this offseason."

He'll have to since you seem to discourage your club's top wrestlers from even considering attending Wisconsin.

Our erstwhile "bag of milk" has decided to chime in from the peanut gallery with his observations on another University of Wisconsin wrestling head coach. Now one may say well he would be no different than you are or I am, just a fan, right? Someone interested in the sport, maybe passionate about it. However, I would argue given the responsibility that he has in the lives of young men as a trainer, mentor and guide, to continuously put down others who do put themselves on the line and whose employment status does stand or fall on wins and losses regardless of whether a loss was due to a bad call, bad injury or sheer bad luck, I think requires a little more respect, tact and a smidgen of humility that most coaches generally adopt lest or of their colleagues attacks them. Apparently Mr. Askren feels he's bound by none of this. You cut down Barry Davis, you're doing the same thing to Bono and you'll do the same to any UW head wrestling coach unless they kiss your rings, your butt or perhaps some other part of your anatomy or unless they give you something you want, perhaps one of your toadies as head coach (why even mention Nick Becker at all?)

Actually I think you had what you wanted or should have wanted, if not a head coaching position in Madison (which I think is smart lest you violate so many NCAA rules you'd put the Badgers on probation again), at least running the RTC. Yet for some penny-anne reason you decided you could no longer work there. Which is sad in a way because you lost whatever chance to have the opportunity to help or have input with the Badger wrestlers to improve themselves over the course of a season. Now what's left, slinging brickbats? Is that all?

As for Bono's tenure as head coach, it's pretty much a wash right now in comparison to other UW coaches from a record standpoint. Although given the fact it's rare when a UW wrestling team gets close enough to Iowa to even tie the Hawkeyes at all, he should be given some credit for that. The fact it was the largest crowd ever to witness a UW wrestling meet, I think he should be given some credit for that too. While the record hasn't been great this season in particular given a healthy Gomez (oh what do you know, a transfer!) and one figures a Midlands team title and dual wins over Illinois, Northwestern and Minnesota. Such are the breaks and hopefully he'll be healthy soon.

But here's the rub. If we've decided to move on from Coach Bono now (and moi all warned you UW's wrestling problems were bigger than one coach and continuously hiring and firing coaches would not necessarily fix them) I guarantee you since Mr. Askren seems to be bound and determined to be "King of Wisconsin Wrestling", you're not going to get a lot of applications, certainly not from leaders of other D-I programs. Because no coach worth their salt would enter into a situation where one's success depended upon the whims of club director. No, being a head coach on the D-I level is fraught with challenges enough that one tries to avoid those that are avoidable.

And quite frankly Mr. Askren, what do you care? Your not a UW alumn. It's no skin off your nose what happens in Madison. So is it too much to ask you leave UW wrestling in peace and stop this ugly dispute even if you do hate the school and anything it seems connected to it? It benefits no one and simply divides fans in this state. For once just consider that silence sometimes is indeed gold.   

I have no doubt you'll get a "cry more" as another did when they suggested that MAYBE it was unfair to the teammates of the kids who moved weights so that AWA kids wouldn't have to Wrestle each other.

It's that type of response that makes me roll my eyes when I hear that BONO is the childish one or whatever.

JMO,
The WI coaches are not just striking out at AWA but also at Pinnacle which has full instate reciprocity with Wisconsin and is considered a top 5 club in the nation (currently with 2 kids ranked #1 and #2 in D1). Wisconsin has 2 full states to recruit in with in-state tuition, so there are 5 or 6 clubs to recruit from that produce lots of Big10 wrestlers.
Ben Askren is always vilified on here but there seems to be a trend with most of the midwest clubs not just AWA, just saying. Maybe Ben and Max really do care about their kids and are truly putting the kids best interest's over the college the local fans root for??? Just a thought.
I am not saying Bono is a bad coach at all, but he is very intense and thats not a great fit for every kid. In Bono's defense he may realize that about himself and seek out the type of kid that fits his style the best as well (I would if I was him). And as a father of a kid that enjoyed AWA and Pinnacle they both run with a calm and efficient style that the kids at those clubs appreciate and respond to. 
I am shocked that coach Bono hasn't went to the Izzy club or Sebolt club that seem to have a similar coaching style?
You have to recruit kids that will respond to you, Eric B and Dean H both have an edge to them similar to Bono and it seems to be working well. The Badgers should have went hard after Rogotzke and Duchateau that wrestle with that same edge as Bono.
Lastly the Badgers need a big guy coach to attract the upper weights and a partner that Hilger and Braxton need. Hard to take a team seriously if you are a big guy that has no one to develop you.

Quote from: factfinder on February 12, 2023, 03:26:34 PMJMO,
The WI coaches are not just striking out at AWA but also at Pinnacle which has full instate reciprocity with Wisconsin and is considered a top 5 club in the nation (currently with 2 kids ranked #1 and #2 in D1). Wisconsin has 2 full states to recruit in with in-state tuition, so there are 5 or 6 clubs to recruit from that produce lots of Big10 wrestlers.
Ben Askren is always vilified on here but there seems to be a trend with most of the midwest clubs not just AWA, just saying. Maybe Ben and Max really do care about their kids and are truly putting the kids best interest's over the college the local fans root for??? Just a thought.
I am not saying Bono is a bad coach at all, but he is very intense and thats not a great fit for every kid. In Bono's defense he may realize that about himself and seek out the type of kid that fits his style the best as well (I would if I was him). And as a father of a kid that enjoyed AWA and Pinnacle they both run with a calm and efficient style that the kids at those clubs appreciate and respond to. 
I am shocked that coach Bono hasn't went to the Izzy club or Sebolt club that seem to have a similar coaching style?
You have to recruit kids that will respond to you, Eric B and Dean H both have an edge to them similar to Bono and it seems to be working well. The Badgers should have went hard after Rogotzke and Duchateau that wrestle with that same edge as Bono.
Lastly the Badgers need a big guy coach to attract the upper weights and a partner that Hilger and Braxton need. Hard to take a team seriously if you are a big guy that has no one to develop you.

Does Reader not qualify, in your estimation?

Quote from: smitty71 on February 12, 2023, 03:39:39 PM

Quote from: factfinder on February 12, 2023, 03:26:34 PMJMO,
The WI coaches are not just striking out at AWA but also at Pinnacle which has full instate reciprocity with Wisconsin and is considered a top 5 club in the nation (currently with 2 kids ranked #1 and #2 in D1). Wisconsin has 2 full states to recruit in with in-state tuition, so there are 5 or 6 clubs to recruit from that produce lots of Big10 wrestlers.
Ben Askren is always vilified on here but there seems to be a trend with most of the midwest clubs not just AWA, just saying. Maybe Ben and Max really do care about their kids and are truly putting the kids best interest's over the college the local fans root for??? Just a thought.
I am not saying Bono is a bad coach at all, but he is very intense and thats not a great fit for every kid. In Bono's defense he may realize that about himself and seek out the type of kid that fits his style the best as well (I would if I was him). And as a father of a kid that enjoyed AWA and Pinnacle they both run with a calm and efficient style that the kids at those clubs appreciate and respond to. 
I am shocked that coach Bono hasn't went to the Izzy club or Sebolt club that seem to have a similar coaching style?
You have to recruit kids that will respond to you, Eric B and Dean H both have an edge to them similar to Bono and it seems to be working well. The Badgers should have went hard after Rogotzke and Duchateau that wrestle with that same edge as Bono.
Lastly the Badgers need a big guy coach to attract the upper weights and a partner that Hilger and Braxton need. Hard to take a team seriously if you are a big guy that has no one to develop you.

Does Reader not qualify, in your estimation?

As what? a 184-285 pound coach? Not really, not saying he isn't a good coach but he isn't big enough to wrestle hard with those guys. I would assume he is great with 149-174 on the mat, he can clearly coach any weight.
Also coming into any program there is a likelihood that a good Assistant Coach will move on for a great opportunity, making the head coach the most important factor.
The Badgers need to add an additional high caliber big guy coach to match what they have with Gross or pull in some paid RTC athletes.
As a side note you would think Gross would be crushing the recruiting in his native of state of MN? He was also a member of MN Elite along with Hall, Gable, P. Kennedy, King, and many other current hammers.

Newton Smerchek is the Heavyweight Coach.

It's been a tough year for the Badgers.  Hope they finish strong and healthy.

Quote from: bigoil on February 12, 2023, 04:51:44 PMNewton Smerchek is the Heavyweight Coach.

Would you say he is a draw the way Gross is at the light weights? I like Gross's Big10 experience between Iowa and WI personally, and i think most Blue Chippers look at those types of factors.

Quote from: factfinder on February 12, 2023, 05:02:49 PM

Quote from: bigoil on February 12, 2023, 04:51:44 PMNewton Smerchek is the Heavyweight Coach.

Would you say he is a draw the way Gross is at the light weights? I like Gross's Big10 experience between Iowa and WI personally, and i think most Blue Chippers look at those types of factors.

Not many assistants with Gross's resume, maybe when the BIG allows for a 4th coach that will change.

Quote from: bigoil on February 12, 2023, 06:18:15 PM

Quote from: factfinder on February 12, 2023, 05:02:49 PM

Quote from: bigoil on February 12, 2023, 04:51:44 PMNewton Smerchek is the Heavyweight Coach.

Would you say he is a draw the way Gross is at the light weights? I like Gross's Big10 experience between Iowa and WI personally, and i think most Blue Chippers look at those types of factors.

Not many assistants with Gross's resume, maybe when the BIG allows for a 4th coach that will change.

I would say in the Big 10 most have a similar resume and most schools have several RTC coaches that fill the void.

It certainly puts Bono and Reader in a tough spot when both AWA and Pinnacle don't want anything to do with you.  This is not placing blame on anyone specifically, as I have no idea the details that got to this point, just stating a fact.  It will be an uphill battle for UW to have a deep team when we are severe recruiting disadvantages to both AWA and Pinnacle.

Haven't heard back from Ben on my rose colored glasses, which wrestlers I described haven't improved.

Also, Missouri has quite a few more transfers than the Badgers.

I personally feel like the UW program is in a better place under Bono.  While the wins haven't been at a level many of us hoped, there is an excitement surrounding the program that I don't remember existing under Davis.  As many posters have already stated, we are not Iowa or Penn St.  Nor is any other program in the Country.  I still believe there is a good chance that we have at least 3 or 4 wrestlers on the podium at the NCAAs.

You will never compete with the top teams recruiting primarily Wisconsin talent, but it does hurst when the largest elite clug actively works against the program.  Askren will never embrace UW and that goes back years in my opinion. His loyalty will always be with Missouri.  That doesn't mean however that UW has no chance at AWA kids.  There will be kids that were raised Wisconsin fans that no matter how much they respect Ben, will follow their hearts.   

Quote from: mkm13 on February 13, 2023, 08:20:01 AMIt certainly puts Bono and Reader in a tough spot when both AWA and Pinnacle don't want anything to do with you.  This is not placing blame on anyone specifically, as I have no idea the details that got to this point, just stating a fact.  It will be an uphill battle for UW to have a deep team when we are severe recruiting disadvantages to both AWA and Pinnacle.

My wish is both Bono and Reader would make themselves more visible in the state.

I agree with you need to recruit outside of Wisconsin to get to the top national spots but we need room guys also.

I feel Bono is still the guy for Wisconsin just would love to see alot more contact to Wisconsin kids.

Bono markets the program better than Davis.

How many high school coaches have had Bono or Reader stop by and say hi?   Maybe they don't have the same budget as football but Fickell and his staff have made it to probably 50+ high schools to say hi to the coaches and introduce themselves.  Mostly the top programs but the overwhelming majority don't have someone UW is recruiting right now.

Quote from: DocWrestling on February 13, 2023, 03:45:47 PMBono markets the program better than Davis.

How many high school coaches have had Bono or Reader stop by and say hi?   Maybe they don't have the same budget as football but Fickell and his staff have made it to probably 50+ high schools to say hi to the coaches and introduce themselves.  Mostly the top programs but the overwhelming majority don't have someone UW is recruiting right now.

How many has Bono made it to?

To be honest I remember seeing more contact from Davis over the years.

Hope it is working out, seriously I really do

Go rewatch a Badger dual from the Barry Davis era vs the current duals.

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 07:07:02 PMAnd who on their team has had a better 2022-23 than their previous year??

Mark of a good coach is year over year improvement in athletes.  Dont see that happening with Bono, it is unfortunate for the athletes that they arent getting better guidance.

Maybe he can get lucky and pillage the transfer portal this offseason.

Well it is nice to see Ben finally put his name to something other than an alias.  I am disappointed yet again with Ben and his obvious dislike for UW wrestling.  To say no one on the team has improved and thus Bono and staff are not good coaches is a little hypocritical.  All coaches on every level have had kids that may have not improved as much as they hoped from year to year.  Ben and AWA are no different!!! Have seen it at the state tournament numerous times.   One could very easily argue that the AWA kids are not getting good guidance especially with college choices. The pillage of the transfer portal comment shows a lack of understanding about the college environment today.  UW wrestling is no different that other wrestling programs and other sports, ask Coach Fickell. So enough of the inaccurate statements Ben, please.

Remember this is the same uninformed man who called out Coach Bono on Flo Wrestling about the Burwick situation.  When the facts came out, Bono had no real say in the matter and Ben you were wrong yet again.  Safe to assume you did not apologize for that.  Sad, sad, sad

Quote from: littleguy301 on February 14, 2023, 09:21:27 AM

Quote from: DocWrestling on February 13, 2023, 03:45:47 PMBono markets the program better than Davis.

How many high school coaches have had Bono or Reader stop by and say hi?   Maybe they don't have the same budget as football but Fickell and his staff have made it to probably 50+ high schools to say hi to the coaches and introduce themselves.  Mostly the top programs but the overwhelming majority don't have someone UW is recruiting right now.

Coach Bono has been at our H.S. and some of the neighboring schools for meet/greet, dual meets, and camps/clinics multiple times. He's working with the Wisconsin Weigh-in Club this spring in Sauk Prairie to bring himself, assistants, and wrestlers. I get that it's probably not ideal for him to make 3-4 hour treks away from madison on a regular basis during his season. I never saw JRobinson at any H.S. events in Northern MN when I was there either. Logistics. But yes, Bono and staff have absolutely been out and about.


How many has Bono made it to?

To be honest I remember seeing more contact from Davis over the years.

Hope it is working out, seriously I really do

Quote from: novice wrestler on February 14, 2023, 11:17:50 AM

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 07:07:02 PMAnd who on their team has had a better 2022-23 than their previous year??

Mark of a good coach is year over year improvement in athletes.  Dont see that happening with Bono, it is unfortunate for the athletes that they arent getting better guidance.

Maybe he can get lucky and pillage the transfer portal this offseason.

Well it is nice to see Ben finally put his name to something other than an alias.  I am disappointed yet again with Ben and his obvious dislike for UW wrestling.  To say no one on the team has improved and thus Bono and staff are not good coaches is a little hypocritical.  All coaches on every level have had kids that may have not improved as much as they hoped from year to year.  Ben and AWA are no different!!! Have seen it at the state tournament numerous times.   One could very easily argue that the AWA kids are not getting good guidance especially with college choices. The pillage of the transfer portal comment shows a lack of understanding about the college environment today.  UW wrestling is no different that other wrestling programs and other sports, ask Coach Fickell. So enough of the inaccurate statements Ben, please.

Remember this is the same uninformed man who called out Coach Bono on Flo Wrestling about the Burwick situation.  When the facts came out, Bono had no real say in the matter and Ben you were wrong yet again.  Safe to assume you did not apologize for that.  Sad, sad, sad

I didn't see that.

Yeah, anyone who put that on Bono, you'd assume if they had the integrity they claimed others didn't have, they'd own that.

I'll not be holding my breath.

Coaches have been in NE Wisconsin, Cheesehead, Bags tournament, Camps,...

Quote from: bigoil on February 14, 2023, 01:04:41 PMCoaches have been in NE Wisconsin, Cheesehead, Bags tournament, Camps,...

Ok.....I get it they have been around the state to some degree.

The staff was in New Richmond for a camp last summer. It was the same time as Fargo camp in River Falls. Didnt go to Fargo camp which is probably the biggest camp in the entire state to be at. That is where most of the top studs in the state were!

So they are hitting the state outside the northwest area except for the one time last summer and by handles accord hitting the area he is at.

I would guess he has a path beat down to Amery ;D

In the NW area sectional in all 3 divisions alot of good wrestlers to recruit or just contact. Lots of other head coaches have wandered the area alot more than the current coaches.

Jens Lanz is running a wrestling school as is the Crasses both former Badger wrestlers.

Just like to see a few NW wrestlers with the big W on their chest whether in the line up or on the team.

Not a RIP at all, more of a call out to not forget this area of the state to help build the program.

Fun fact......take the high school sectionals and which area has the most college AA in the past 25 years?

I would guess the SE sectional with the askrens and Alex d.

NW sectional
Henning
Brandvold
Black
Turner
Hartung
Baier

There is more but this is to be fun not a rip on any thing.

Still Bono can do the job, just maybe some more communication but Bono is still early into his tenure.

Quote from: littleguy301 on February 14, 2023, 01:33:53 PM

Quote from: bigoil on February 14, 2023, 01:04:41 PMCoaches have been in NE Wisconsin, Cheesehead, Bags tournament, Camps,...

Ok.....I get it they have been around the state to some degree.

The staff was in New Richmond for a camp last summer. It was the same time as Fargo camp in River Falls. Didnt go to Fargo camp which is probably the biggest camp in the entire state to be at. That is where most of the top studs in the state were!

So they are hitting the state outside the northwest area except for the one time last summer and by handles accord hitting the area he is at.

I would guess he has a path beat down to Amery ;D

In the NW area sectional in all 3 divisions alot of good wrestlers to recruit or just contact. Lots of other head coaches have wandered the area alot more than the current coaches.

Jens Lanz is running a wrestling school as is the Crasses both former Badger wrestlers.

Just like to see a few NW wrestlers with the big W on their chest whether in the line up or on the team.

Not a RIP at all, more of a call out to not forget this area of the state to help build the program.

I would have invested in a high speed rail to and from Amery at this point. Instead of Madison to Milwaukee, Madison to Amery.

Heavyweight is going to be just...INCREDIBLE in the next few years. Between Feldman, the Iowa kid, Hopke, Kerkvliet has 3 years left and I'm pretty sure there's a lot more kids I don't know about.

Quote from: Vir Fortis on February 14, 2023, 04:20:24 PM

Quote from: littleguy301 on February 14, 2023, 01:33:53 PM

Quote from: bigoil on February 14, 2023, 01:04:41 PMCoaches have been in NE Wisconsin, Cheesehead, Bags tournament, Camps,...

Ok.....I get it they have been around the state to some degree.

The staff was in New Richmond for a camp last summer. It was the same time as Fargo camp in River Falls. Didnt go to Fargo camp which is probably the biggest camp in the entire state to be at. That is where most of the top studs in the state were!

So they are hitting the state outside the northwest area except for the one time last summer and by handles accord hitting the area he is at.

I would guess he has a path beat down to Amery ;D

In the NW area sectional in all 3 divisions alot of good wrestlers to recruit or just contact. Lots of other head coaches have wandered the area alot more than the current coaches.

Jens Lanz is running a wrestling school as is the Crasses both former Badger wrestlers.

Just like to see a few NW wrestlers with the big W on their chest whether in the line up or on the team.

Not a RIP at all, more of a call out to not forget this area of the state to help build the program.

I would have invested in a high speed rail to and from Amery at this point. Instead of Madison to Milwaukee, Madison to Amery.

Heavyweight is going to be just...INCREDIBLE in the next few years. Between Feldman, the Iowa kid, Hopke, Kerkvliet has 3 years left and I'm pretty sure there's a lot more kids I don't know about.

Mullins also. I would be suprised if Keuter also wrestles. He is a 4 star football recruit also and his scholarship is all football but then head coach currently says he can wrestle but with the current Iowa football team nor sure how long Frentz leash is.

Maybe with Fickell in charge a transfer  ;D

High speed rail to our part I say maybe because I would certainly use it to speed down to Madison, especial state time ;D

Bono, Reader and staff, did weeklong camps all across the state last year and have been to many duals and tournaments. They are committed to Wisconsin. If you can't see that, it's because you don't want to.

Bono and Reader were both at the team sectional I attended last night. They talked with coaches, wrestlers and some of the fans from each school.

Quote from: littleguy301 on February 14, 2023, 09:21:27 AM

Quote from: DocWrestling on February 13, 2023, 03:45:47 PMBono markets the program better than Davis.

How many high school coaches have had Bono or Reader stop by and say hi?   Maybe they don't have the same budget as football but Fickell and his staff have made it to probably 50+ high schools to say hi to the coaches and introduce themselves.  Mostly the top programs but the overwhelming majority don't have someone UW is recruiting right now.

How many has Bono made it to?

To be honest I remember seeing more contact from Davis over the years.

Hope it is working out, seriously I really do

Last night at the Baraboo sectional, Bono and Reader were both there and went around shaking all the wrestlers and coaches hands.  Was nice to see them there.  they also come to North End Restaurant every Sept for a meet and greet with all of the local wrestling clubs and High schools. Pretty cool.

Quote from: Coach V on February 15, 2023, 08:49:03 AMBono, Reader and staff, did weeklong camps all across the state last year and have been to many duals and tournaments. They are committed to Wisconsin. If you can't see that, it's because you don't want to.

Please re read. Being in my part I have noticed 1 camp and I believe a second camp and that is all since Bono came over.

I am implying with Hopke inhopemthey come up for a few more it would help the area get more on board as a whole with backing the Badgers.

We see coaches that come from farther away to recruit our are much farther than 3 hours! They arent scared.

I have stated several times that Bono is the guy and I feel that also. If I dont put some squeak in the wheel we arent going to get any grease.

So, please re read and if you feel I am not looking hard prove that I have missed something. Remember Bono and Reader were 20 minutes away at the same time as the MOST important camp of the year and did not attend.

"Remember this is the same uninformed man who called out Coach Bono on Flo Wrestling about the Burwick situation.  When the facts came out, Bono had no real say in the matter and Ben you were wrong yet again.  Safe to assume you did not apologize for that.  Sad, sad, sad."

  He held Davis in contempt (a multiple B1G and NCAA Champ plus Olympic and international medalist) and he hates Bono so I guess what the next UW head wrestling coach will have to do is go his house and cook dinner to get his approval.

Otoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

Quote from: mkm13 on February 15, 2023, 09:00:23 PMOtoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

I picked Carr, but...I did NOT think he'd win with that type of ease. Just dominated that match. Carr looks like a big 65 and he really kinda neutralized O'Toole's scrambling.

Impressive. I would certainly think this would have O'Toole rethinking competing for 3rd next year at 174.

But I wouldn't be shocked if he flipped the script at the NCAAs. I just hope Carr Wrestles the B12s. I don't think it'll benefit him in any way. Better to take a MFF in the finals from a pragmatic view, but neither of these guys seem like they're going to duck a match.

Quote from: mkm13 on February 15, 2023, 09:00:23 PMOtoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

this is so idiotic, even if it was meant as sarcasm. Trying to take a shot at Ben and using a kids name to do it is low and pathetic.

in case your are just stupid, yes Keegan has improved. Became a world champ and a national champ while at Missouri and suffered his second loss in college on a night he wasnt at his best vs a exceptionally good kid with only 3 college losses.

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:12:57 AM

Quote from: mkm13 on February 15, 2023, 09:00:23 PMOtoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

this is so idiotic, even if it was meant as sarcasm. Trying to take a shot at Ben and using a kids name to do it is low and pathetic.

in case your are just stupid, yes Keegan has improved. Became a world champ and a national champ while at Missouri and suffered his second loss in college on a night he wasnt at his best vs a exceptionally good kid with only 3 college losses.

Obviously sarcasm, but it's ok for Ben Askren to do the same thing to Bono and UW wrestlers?  ::)

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 17, 2023, 08:25:01 AM

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:12:57 AM

Quote from: mkm13 on February 15, 2023, 09:00:23 PMOtoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

this is so idiotic, even if it was meant as sarcasm. Trying to take a shot at Ben and using a kids name to do it is low and pathetic.


in case your are just stupid, yes Keegan has improved. Became a world champ and a national champ while at Missouri and suffered his second loss in college on a night he wasnt at his best vs a exceptionally good kid with only 3 college losses.

Obviously sarcasm, but it's ok for Ben Askren to do the same thing to Bono and UW wrestlers?  ::)

I think it was sarcasm as well but no need to post it. and to answer your question, no its not ok.  Problem with the world, doing something wrong to try fixing what you believe is wrong.

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:36:11 AM

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 17, 2023, 08:25:01 AM

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:12:57 AM

Quote from: mkm13 on February 15, 2023, 09:00:23 PMOtoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

this is so idiotic, even if it was meant as sarcasm. Trying to take a shot at Ben and using a kids name to do it is low and pathetic.


in case your are just stupid, yes Keegan has improved. Became a world champ and a national champ while at Missouri and suffered his second loss in college on a night he wasnt at his best vs a exceptionally good kid with only 3 college losses.

Obviously sarcasm, but it's ok for Ben Askren to do the same thing to Bono and UW wrestlers?  ::)

I think it was sarcasm as well but no need to post it. and to answer your question, no its not ok.  Problem with the world, doing something wrong to try fixing what you believe is wrong.

But yet you post defending O'Toole, but didn't say a word about Ben doing the same thing.

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 17, 2023, 08:42:09 AM

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:36:11 AM

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 17, 2023, 08:25:01 AM

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:12:57 AM

Quote from: mkm13 on February 15, 2023, 09:00:23 PMOtoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

this is so idiotic, even if it was meant as sarcasm. Trying to take a shot at Ben and using a kids name to do it is low and pathetic.


in case your are just stupid, yes Keegan has improved. Became a world champ and a national champ while at Missouri and suffered his second loss in college on a night he wasnt at his best vs a exceptionally good kid with only 3 college losses.

Obviously sarcasm, but it's ok for Ben Askren to do the same thing to Bono and UW wrestlers?  ::)

I think it was sarcasm as well but no need to post it. and to answer your question, no its not ok.  Problem with the world, doing something wrong to try fixing what you believe is wrong.

But yet you post defending O'Toole, but didn't say a word about Ben doing the same thing.

correct! whats your point? That I didnt come to the defense of every WI wrestler when Ben used them to make his point about Bono being bad? I didnt feel the need, by the time I read it 30 other people did that.

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:48:52 AM

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 17, 2023, 08:42:09 AM

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:36:11 AM

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 17, 2023, 08:25:01 AM

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:12:57 AM

Quote from: mkm13 on February 15, 2023, 09:00:23 PMOtoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

this is so idiotic, even if it was meant as sarcasm. Trying to take a shot at Ben and using a kids name to do it is low and pathetic.


in case your are just stupid, yes Keegan has improved. Became a world champ and a national champ while at Missouri and suffered his second loss in college on a night he wasnt at his best vs a exceptionally good kid with only 3 college losses.

Obviously sarcasm, but it's ok for Ben Askren to do the same thing to Bono and UW wrestlers?  ::)

I think it was sarcasm as well but no need to post it. and to answer your question, no its not ok.  Problem with the world, doing something wrong to try fixing what you believe is wrong.

But yet you post defending O'Toole, but didn't say a word about Ben doing the same thing.

correct! whats your point? That I didnt come to the defense of every WI wrestler when Ben used them to make his point about Bono being bad? I didnt feel the need, by the time I read it 30 other people did that.

But jump to defend Keegan and call another poster stupid when he makes a sarcastic comment, but zero comment on Ben openly talking down to Bono and the UW wrestling team. I think everyone can clearly see the double standard.

Okay boys - neutral corners, please.

O'Toole lost to another exceptional individual. No need to make it about Askren/Bono/Davis, etc. Let's all just focus.

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:48:52 AM

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 17, 2023, 08:42:09 AM

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:36:11 AM

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 17, 2023, 08:25:01 AM

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:12:57 AM

Quote from: mkm13 on February 15, 2023, 09:00:23 PMOtoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

this is so idiotic, even if it was meant as sarcasm. Trying to take a shot at Ben and using a kids name to do it is low and pathetic.


in case your are just stupid, yes Keegan has improved. Became a world champ and a national champ while at Missouri and suffered his second loss in college on a night he wasnt at his best vs a exceptionally good kid with only 3 college losses.

Obviously sarcasm, but it's ok for Ben Askren to do the same thing to Bono and UW wrestlers?  ::)

I think it was sarcasm as well but no need to post it. and to answer your question, no its not ok.  Problem with the world, doing something wrong to try fixing what you believe is wrong.

But yet you post defending O'Toole, but didn't say a word about Ben doing the same thing.

correct! whats your point? That I didnt come to the defense of every WI wrestler when Ben used them to make his point about Bono being bad? I didnt feel the need, by the time I read it 30 other people did that.

Wow.  It was obviously sarcasm.  O'Toole is incredible and has no doubt made big improvements.  I hope he beats Carr the next round, which I think he has a good chance.

My post was 100% in response to Ben calling out Bono and all of the badgers wrestlers for not making improvements from the past year, which I do not believe was sarcasm. 

What I find interesting is no one under this discussion has even alluded to compensation vs. expectation factor.  I would say that marketability has improved, but performance has remained the same between the current and previous regimes.

Just to be clear otoole is not a kid and hasn't been since high school. He lost a match almost everyone thought he would win. That is up for discussion and criticism without the "he is just a kid so we can't talk about it" excuse.

Quote from: statman on February 17, 2023, 12:37:04 PMJust to be clear otoole is not a kid and hasn't been since high school. He lost a match almost everyone thought he would win. That is up for discussion and criticism without the "he is just a kid so we can't talk about it" excuse.

Fair point he is not a kid. this wasnt talking about the match this was using a person in a sarcastic comment to attack Ben.

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 01:25:11 PM

Quote from: statman on February 17, 2023, 12:37:04 PMJust to be clear otoole is not a kid and hasn't been since high school. He lost a match almost everyone thought he would win. That is up for discussion and criticism without the "he is just a kid so we can't talk about it" excuse.

Fair point he is not a kid. this wasnt talking about the match this was using a person in a sarcastic comment to attack Ben.

I understand you are close to the situation, but Ben better be able to handle a little sarcasm.  He certainly disshes it out. 

As far as O'toole is concerned, it's going to be fun to watch him wrestle Carr again.  He is wicked smart wrestler that will make adjustments. 

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:12:57 AM

Quote from: mkm13 on February 15, 2023, 09:00:23 PMOtoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

this is so idiotic, even if it was meant as sarcasm. Trying to take a shot at Ben and using a kids name to do it is low and pathetic.

in case your are just stupid, yes Keegan has improved. Became a world champ and a national champ while at Missouri and suffered his second loss in college on a night he wasnt at his best vs a exceptionally good kid with only 3 college losses.

Well...is it a shot at a kid if it was obvious sarcasm? Not really.

And if it IS...then it's one shot at one kid as opposed to one guy taking a shot at 30 kids fairly regularly, no?


Yes, of course O'Toole has improved. He's an incredible Wrestler. I DO find the pearl clutching her a bit disingenuous. Keegan O'Toole is a NC, World Champ, 3rd place as a True Frosh. Nobody is making a real argument that he's not a dog.

I've long been told to ignore the "transitive property," as it pertains to Wresting. So I won't take David Carr 7-5 over Dean Hamiti and David Carr 7-2 over Keegan O'Toole to mean anything other than Carr is REALLY good, but I think it was a fair sarcastic shot. Not at O'Toole and the absurdity of it being O'Toole and how obviously it WASN'T directed at O'Toole being the reason why.

If it was a genuine insult of him, then I'd say it was below the belt, but it was obviously intended for someone else.

I think lateral move at best. I was excited for the change and I was definitely ready to move beyond the Barry era.  Unfortunately I was wrong, and I don't think we have moved the program forward with Bono.

I agree it is a lateral move at best at this point from Barry to Bono.  I expected better results by now from Bono/Reader.  That it looks like UW is trending the same as 6 years ago, yet now the ability to use the transfer portal presents more as a regression IMO. Simply put Davis did the same as Bono is doing now without the advantage of being able to get 2-3 starters/year via the portal.

Being a Big Ten program, a great campus and yet running neck and neck in the rankings to mid-major SDSU where Bono/Reader left is unfortunate.

While I may have sounded critical of Bono in the past, I still truly believe he was the beat choice at the time and still believe he is the right choice at the current time.

I have no idea who the Badger would bring in that could replace Bono and do the same job he has done.

The Badgers other finalist for the job, Coach Hahn that is currently SDSU head coach has done very well though one could say he had the pleasure of stepping in with what Bono had created. Maybe or maybe not!

Let Bono do his thing. Changes have happened for sure. Maybe not what some has wanted but it is a different feel.

Quote from: asdf on February 18, 2023, 10:52:57 PMI agree it is a lateral move at best at this point from Barry to Bono.  I expected better results by now from Bono/Reader.  That it looks like UW is trending the same as 6 years ago, yet now the ability to use the transfer portal presents more as a regression IMO. Simply put Davis did the same as Bono is doing now without the advantage of being able to get 2-3 starters/year via the portal.

Being a Big Ten program, a great campus and yet running neck and neck in the rankings to mid-major SDSU where Bono/Reader left is unfortunate.

True statement but maybe SDSU is doing well because Bono built a foundation.

I must be watching a different product than the rest of you.

We have 5 legit chances of AA.
The environment is the best I've experienced even back to the 80's.
The style is explosive for the most of the wrestlers.

Did we lose some duals we shouldn't have, yes, that's frustrating. Down a top 2 wrestler it is tough to win, you seen that even with Iowa.

I would say depth is a concern but when we put our 10 best out there, we are a top team.

Side note, Lamont is also coming along the last couple of meets, not sure if it was an injury, getting used to weight but he looks much better.

Reader and Gross were at the individual Sectional I was at. Checking out the wrestling room, weight room, talked to lots of coaches and wrestlers from what I noticed. And this was a day they hosted a dual in Madison.

Quote from: Handles II on February 19, 2023, 08:33:37 AMReader and Gross were at the individual Sectional I was at. Checking out the wrestling room, weight room, talked to lots of coaches and wrestlers from what I noticed. And this was a day they hosted a dual in Madison.

That's awesome, it was also Coach Reader's birthday.

Quote from: bigoil on February 19, 2023, 06:54:48 AMI must be watching a different product than the rest of you.

We have 5 legit chances of AA.
The environment is the best I've experienced even back to the 80's.
The style is explosive for the most of the wrestlers.

Did we lose some duals we shouldn't have, yes, that's frustrating. Down a top 2 wrestler it is tough to win, you seen that even with Iowa.

I would say depth is a concern but when we put our 10 best out there, we are a top team.

Side note, Lamont is also coming along the last couple of meets, not sure if it was an injury, getting used to weight but he looks much better.

I am with you. I attend every home dual (and have been for years) and watch every match that is not at home and I like what I see. The style is different and the conditioning is different. If healthy I would be surprised if they are not a top 10 team this year at the NCAA's.

I'd say if they get to 5 All Americans and finish well as a team it would really help to finally put this argument to bed.  However, that is a big if, and while I really, really hope they have a great March to shut people up, it seems like over the recent past they generally under-perform a bit.  Not a lot mind you, but just a handful of close losses that prevent it from being a fantastic tournament.  And I get it, this environment is SUPER tough and competitive and basically everybody is darn good, so please don't read more into this.  However, turning a few of these around and sprinkling in a few upsets would be so awesome and go a long way toward shutting up guys like me who have no idea what it takes to win at that level or about the pressures that these teams face.   Go Bucky!

Quote from: bigoil on February 19, 2023, 08:51:08 AM

Quote from: Handles II on February 19, 2023, 08:33:37 AMReader and Gross were at the individual Sectional I was at. Checking out the wrestling room, weight room, talked to lots of coaches and wrestlers from what I noticed. And this was a day they hosted a dual in Madison.

That's awesome, it was also Coach Reader's birthday.

(Please NOTE: 'sarcasm setting' ON)

Well, It would have only satisfied me if they had been at every single Sectional on Saturday. All 16 is the only way I'd be happy.

Quote from: Handles II on February 19, 2023, 08:33:37 AMReader and Gross were at the individual Sectional I was at. Checking out the wrestling room, weight room, talked to lots of coaches and wrestlers from what I noticed. And this was a day they hosted a dual in Madison.

Bono was at the Ind. sectionals I was at as well.

If if's and buts were cherry and nuts...

We all know the end to that.  However, IF Austin wrestles the whole year, we Win Midlands (lost out on 1st place by 8 points), we beat Illinois (lost 17-18) we beat Northwestern (lost 17-18 and even if Austin finishes and loses to Thomas, doubtful he gets pinned and gives up 6 team points like the MFF did), we beat Minnesota (lost 15-19).

With that "IF" record, we are 4-4 in Big Ten, 11-5 overall, and have victories over #7 Cornell (actually happened), #12 Princeton (actually happened), #28 Illinois (hypothetical), #24 Purdue (actually happened), a tie that came down to 3rd tiebreaker against #2 Iowa with the largest home crowd ever to watch a Badger match (actually happened), a win over #9 Northwestern (hypothetical), a win over #23 Minnesota (hypothetical) and a win over #16 Northern Iowa (actually happened).  This on top of the Midlands tournament champions (hypothetical).

As Badger fans, do we want to rely on moral victories, hypotheticals, and IF's?  Absolutely not. However if you can't see that the team is better than the record indicates and that the energy, marketability, and dual atmosphere is better than it was with Barry, I don't know what to tell you.  Certain people do not want Bono to succeed and will not give him credit no matter how well he does and unfortunately some of those people happen to be very powerful in the Wisconsin Wrestling community.

The season isn't over yet, it's my understanding Austin is healthy and ready to tear some heads off!  Let's see how the Big Ten's and NCAA's go for our beloved (for some) Badgers and On Wisconsin!

Matt Deadman

When your wrestling room has concrete pillars in it you can't worry about who the coach is, because it doesn't matter.

I think if you look at the level of alumni and booster support for each B1G program (not the in-school support) and compared them it would not surprise me that it would roughly correspond to the finish of each program in the conference meet and perhaps duals as well.

Things will change when the Badgers have the resources and facilities to compete with the best teams in the league ergo the best teams in the country. And when the UWAD stops worrying about rules compliance to allow the top amateur wrestlers to compete at the RTC. Simply changing coaches every five years to get the same results is just self-defeating.

And then we have to deal with unique Wisconsin problem of non-UW alumni state club leader determined to control outcomes for the program in some fashion through the means of extortion.  Name me another D-I program which has that problem. Amazing isn't it the state has just one D-I college wrestling program and there's a group of coaches, club leaders and fans within in state who wish injure or attack it some fashion. That's a lot for a coaching staff to have to deal with so to read that UW coaches were out there hitting the grassroots yesterday is a positive sign.

Obviously Coach Bono is doing more in terms of marketing and promotion providing the program some energy compared to the last few season of the Davis regime but I wonder if this was more due to Davis knowing the end of his tenure was near (although his inability to define when that end would finally be even exasperated Barry Alvarez to the point where he made that decision for Davis) and just tried to get the program back to a competitive level after the disaster of 2012, which he did.

So again, until these systemic problems are fixed (which I hope Coach Bono can at least start the process of doing), UW wrestling will be pretty much where it is and where it's always been: not in first place. And many coaches have led UW to this point. When someone like Russ Hellickson bails out on UW and the state of Wisconsin for Ohio State, even though it happened a long time ago, I think that's sends a pretty strong message as to what he believed his chances were of winning a B1G title and NCAA in Madison in comparison to Columbus, don't ya think?

One should also point out, in observing these boards for many years, is that it drives some in-state fans crazy to see Wisconsin-native wrestlers have success at other schools. Especially when there hasn't been a native UW national champion since Andy Rein back in 1980. Unfortunately they should get used to it. Just because UW has a pretty campus and is in the B1G means nothing. Elite college wrestlers don't choose a school so they can look at pretty things. They choose schools based on whether they believe, when they are being recruited, the coaching staff, practice partners and support environment can train and support their goal of winning a national championship and make the Olympic team. And for some of those wrestlers (and yes grades are an issue too) they just don't see themselves having that success in Madison like it or not, especially when the Madison program is limited to how many athletes they can have in the wrestling room (again, another systemic problem!) to where they can no longer just vacumm-up a bunch of in-state walk-ons to provide practice partners and competition to the scholarship wrestlers.

Honestly, given the lack of resources UW has put towards wrestling, that it has been as competitive as it's been (middle of the pack or not) is probably a miracle we as fans should be celebrating instead being disgusted by. Of course you want better, everyone does. And there is a way to be better. The question is, is the UWAD willing to do so?

Quote from: wrestlemania on February 19, 2023, 07:19:30 PMWhen your wrestling room has concrete pillars in it you can't worry about who the coach is, because it doesn't matter.

I think if you look at the level of alumni and booster support for each B1G program (not the in-school support) and compared them it would not surprise me that it would roughly correspond to the finish of each program in the conference meet and perhaps duals as well.

Things will change when the Badgers have the resources and facilities to compete with the best teams in the league ergo the best teams in the country. And when the UWAD stops worrying about rules compliance to allow the top amateur wrestlers to compete at the RTC. Simply changing coaches every five years to get the same results is just self-defeating.

And then we have to deal with unique Wisconsin problem of non-UW alumni state club leader determined to control outcomes for the program in some fashion through the means of extortion.  Name me another D-I program which has that problem. Amazing isn't it the state has just one D-I college wrestling program and there's a group of coaches, club leaders and fans within in state who wish injure or attack it some fashion. That's a lot for a coaching staff to have to deal with so to read that UW coaches were out there hitting the grassroots yesterday is a positive sign.

Obviously Coach Bono is doing more in terms of marketing and promotion providing the program some energy compared to the last few season of the Davis regime but I wonder if this was more due to Davis knowing the end of his tenure was near (although his inability to define when that end would finally be even exasperated Barry Alvarez to the point where he made that decision for Davis) and just tried to get the program back to a competitive level after the disaster of 2012, which he did.

So again, until these systemic problems are fixed (which I hope Coach Bono can at least start the process of doing), UW wrestling will be pretty much where it is and where it's always been: not in first place. And many coaches have led UW to this point. When someone like Russ Hellickson bails out on UW and the state of Wisconsin for Ohio State, even though it happened a long time ago, I think that's sends a pretty strong message as to what he believed his chances were of winning a B1G title and NCAA in Madison in comparison to Columbus, don't ya think?

One should also point out, in observing these boards for many years, is that it drives some in-state fans crazy to see Wisconsin-native wrestlers have success at other schools. Especially when there hasn't been a native UW national champion since Andy Rein back in 1980. Unfortunately they should get used to it. Just because UW has a pretty campus and is in the B1G means nothing. Elite college wrestlers don't choose a school so they can look at pretty things. They choose schools based on whether they believe, when they are being recruited, the coaching staff, practice partners and support environment can train and support their goal of winning a national championship and make the Olympic team. And for some of those wrestlers (and yes grades are an issue too) they just don't see themselves having that success in Madison like it or not, especially when the Madison program is limited to how many athletes they can have in the wrestling room (again, another systemic problem!) to where they can no longer just vacumm-up a bunch of in-state walk-ons to provide practice partners and competition to the scholarship wrestlers.

Honestly, given the lack of resources UW has put towards wrestling, that it has been as competitive as it's been (middle of the pack or not) is probably a miracle we as fans should be celebrating instead being disgusted by. Of course you want better, everyone does. And there is a way to be better. The question is, is the UWAD willing to do so?

👆☝️

Lack of funding?  Doesn't Bono get paid 3 times as much as Davis did?  From the jump.  And doesn't he also have a larger budget to operate with?  The first is definitely true the second though is perception.  Let's be clear on some thing's Bono is working with a different playing ground than did B. Davis.  Some of you like to talk how some schools have more Transfers.  I'm not sure most teams are like the Badgers in trying to fill starting roles with Transfers.  Have the Badgers not been plugging one or two starting spots with Transfers for the last 3 or 4 seasons?  In year 5 you would think Bono would have developed starters and not need to go get 6th year transfers.  Bono has definitely done a better job at marketing the program.  And honestly, I believe his strength is recruiting. But if we are talking about developing wrestlers to me there is no question B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited than has C.Bono.

Quote from: asdf on February 18, 2023, 10:52:57 PMI agree it is a lateral move at best at this point from Barry to Bono.  I expected better results by now from Bono/Reader.  That it looks like UW is trending the same as 6 years ago, yet now the ability to use the transfer portal presents more as a regression IMO. Simply put Davis did the same as Bono is doing now without the advantage of being able to get 2-3 starters/year via the portal.

Being a Big Ten program, a great campus and yet running neck and neck in the rankings to mid-major SDSU where Bono/Reader left is unfortunate.


With a little better health, these comments would be mute.  The portal is now the way of life but also realize why some kids are in the portal. There is a multitude of reasons, the hard part is finding the right kids for your program. With NIL the really good kids in the portal are wanted to get paid!!!
Now the comment about ranking UW with mid major SDSU is a crazy comment, mean spirited.  SDSU would likely only be able to compete with a couple of the bottoms teams in the Big Ten.  In some polls they are unranked as a tournament team

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMA great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

Ben - I agree that Becker is an awesome coach - but he also benefits from great in-state roster support ...

Quote from: neutral on February 20, 2023, 11:08:40 AM

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMA great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

Ben - I agree that Becker is an awesome coach - but he also benefits from great in-state roster support ...

I think you are missing the point here.

Quote from: The Legend on February 20, 2023, 08:46:50 AMLack of funding?  Doesn't Bono get paid 3 times as much as Davis did?  From the jump.  And doesn't he also have a larger budget to operate with?  The first is definitely true the second though is perception.  Let's be clear on some thing's Bono is working with a different playing ground than did B. Davis.  Some of you like to talk how some schools have more Transfers.  I'm not sure most teams are like the Badgers in trying to fill starting roles with Transfers.  Have the Badgers not been plugging one or two starting spots with Transfers for the last 3 or 4 seasons?  In year 5 you would think Bono would have developed starters and not need to go get 6th year transfers.  Bono has definitely done a better job at marketing the program.  And honestly, I believe his strength is recruiting. But if we are talking about developing wrestlers to me there is no question B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited than has C.Bono.

100% on point

Quote from: hornbuckleb on February 20, 2023, 01:40:58 PM

Quote from: neutral on February 20, 2023, 11:08:40 AM

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMA great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

Ben - I agree that Becker is an awesome coach - but he also benefits from great in-state roster support ...

I think you are missing the point here.

Think it through ...

Quote from: neutral on February 20, 2023, 02:22:33 PM

Quote from: hornbuckleb on February 20, 2023, 01:40:58 PM

Quote from: neutral on February 20, 2023, 11:08:40 AM

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMA great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

Ben - I agree that Becker is an awesome coach - but he also benefits from great in-state roster support ...

I think you are missing the point here.

Think it through ...

Oh I have...

1-7 in the Big and this weekends Last Chance Open results has nothing to to do with Ben.  Hoping the Badgers have a big March.

Quote from: hornbuckleb on February 20, 2023, 01:44:06 PM

Quote from: The Legend on February 20, 2023, 08:46:50 AMLack of funding?  Doesn't Bono get paid 3 times as much as Davis did?  From the jump.  And doesn't he also have a larger budget to operate with?  The first is definitely true the second though is perception.  Let's be clear on some thing's Bono is working with a different playing ground than did B. Davis.  Some of you like to talk how some schools have more Transfers.  I'm not sure most teams are like the Badgers in trying to fill starting roles with Transfers.  Have the Badgers not been plugging one or two starting spots with Transfers for the last 3 or 4 seasons?  In year 5 you would think Bono would have developed starters and not need to go get 6th year transfers.  Bono has definitely done a better job at marketing the program.  And honestly, I believe his strength is recruiting. But if we are talking about developing wrestlers to me there is no question B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited than has C.Bono.

100% on point

How is that on point, budget is greater, so Bono can use his salary to build a new wrestling room? Should be not be paid what market is for a BIG coach?

The badgers have 2 or 3 transfers (2 starting). Missouri has I believe 5.

Now you are going to use last chance tournament where guys are wrestling up a weight to judge success of the program?1-7 so you should expect them to be 13th in the BIG tourney and about 30th at NCAA.

How about you actually watch the matches, see the improvement from guy to guy. See the energy on the team, in the FieldHouse, talk to the other coaches and wrestlers. I can tell you Spencer Lee does not think Eric Barnett has not grown after talking to him during the Iowa match. Mr. Sanderson had a ton of respect for the program talking to him as did the Brands brothers as they were there for the record crowd and would have been easy to say it was because of them and they deflected to how great it is to see UW getting back to being great.

You must be having two separate conversations in your head.  I never said a word about the last chance tournament. There you go again with Missouri has 5 so and so has 12.  Look the Badgers use the portal to fill starting spots.  Can you deny this?  My whole point on that topic is you wouldn't have to if you were developing your own guys better.  I didn't say guys were not improving I said I felt B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited Moreso than Bono.   And I watch the matches very intently!  Thank you.   If you do an honest assessment, you will see B.Davis last 5 years compared to C.Bono first 5 years are very similar.  Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.  It's not terrible.

Quote from: The Legend on February 20, 2023, 05:47:58 PMYou must be having two separate conversations in your head.  I never said a word about the last chance tournament. There you go again with Missouri has 5 so and so has 12.  Look the Badgers use the portal to fill starting spots.  Can you deny this?  My whole point on that topic is you wouldn't have to if you were developing your own guys better.  I didn't say guys were not improving I said I felt B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited Moreso than Bono.   And I watch the matches very intently!  Thank you.   If you do an honest assessment, you will see B.Davis last 5 years compared to C.Bono first 5 years are very similar.  Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.  It's not terrible.

I was talking to Bob with that comment so nice try. Most NCAA programs use the portal to fill spots, heck that's not even limited to wrestling. What team is doing such a great job at developing their own that they don't use the portal?

PSU? Their top two weights are transfers.

Quote from: The Legend on February 20, 2023, 08:46:50 AMLack of funding?  Doesn't Bono get paid 3 times as much as Davis did?  From the jump.  And doesn't he also have a larger budget to operate with?  The first is definitely true the second though is perception.  Let's be clear on some thing's Bono is working with a different playing ground than did B. Davis.  Some of you like to talk how some schools have more Transfers. I'm not sure most teams are like the Badgers in trying to fill starting roles with Transfers.  Have the Badgers not been plugging one or two starting spots with Transfers for the last 3 or 4 seasons?  In year 5 you would think Bono would have developed starters and not need to go get 6th year transfers.  Bono has definitely done a better job at marketing the program.  And honestly, I believe his strength is recruiting. But if we are talking about developing wrestlers to me there is no question B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited than has C.Bono.

They definitely are. Penn State, Iowa, Nebraska(just 1-3). They've all got transfers in the lineup right now.

I'm not sure why you think Wisconsin is unique in this. As a result, your following statements hold a bit less water.

Quote from: Vir Fortis on February 20, 2023, 06:59:09 PM

Quote from: The Legend on February 20, 2023, 08:46:50 AMLack of funding?  Doesn't Bono get paid 3 times as much as Davis did?  From the jump.  And doesn't he also have a larger budget to operate with?  The first is definitely true the second though is perception.  Let's be clear on some thing's Bono is working with a different playing ground than did B. Davis.  Some of you like to talk how some schools have more Transfers. I'm not sure most teams are like the Badgers in trying to fill starting roles with Transfers.  Have the Badgers not been plugging one or two starting spots with Transfers for the last 3 or 4 seasons?  In year 5 you would think Bono would have developed starters and not need to go get 6th year transfers.  Bono has definitely done a better job at marketing the program.  And honestly, I believe his strength is recruiting. But if we are talking about developing wrestlers to me there is no question B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited than has C.Bono.

They definitely are. Penn State, Iowa, Nebraska(just 1-3). They've all got transfers in the lineup right now.

I'm not sure why you think Wisconsin is unique in this. As a result, your following statements hold a bit less water.

Happening to be looking at this earlier today so I thought I would share

Wrestlestat tournament ranking, school and starters that are transfers

#1 – Penn St – (2) Dean, Kerkvliet
#2 – Nebraska – (4) Cronin, Burwick, Morton, Davidson
#3 – Iowa – (2) Teske, Woods

Quote from: bigoil on February 19, 2023, 06:54:48 AMI must be watching a different product than the rest of you.

We have 5 legit chances of AA.
The environment is the best I've experienced even back to the 80's.
The style is explosive for the most of the wrestlers.

Did we lose some duals we shouldn't have, yes, that's frustrating. Down a top 2 wrestler it is tough to win, you seen that even with Iowa.

I would say depth is a concern but when we put our 10 best out there, we are a top team.

Side note, Lamont is also coming along the last couple of meets, not sure if it was an injury, getting used to weight but he looks much better.

Therein lies the problem. I fear many of the detractors are simply reading the final scores, no context and then passing judgement.

You shouldn't be so reliant on one athlete...but it's the B1G and you are. There's ONE team that can afford to take their best Wrestler out and still win just about every duel?

Quote from: vsmf2010 on February 20, 2023, 07:06:46 PM

Quote from: Vir Fortis on February 20, 2023, 06:59:09 PM

Quote from: The Legend on February 20, 2023, 08:46:50 AMLack of funding?  Doesn't Bono get paid 3 times as much as Davis did?  From the jump.  And doesn't he also have a larger budget to operate with?  The first is definitely true the second though is perception.  Let's be clear on some thing's Bono is working with a different playing ground than did B. Davis.  Some of you like to talk how some schools have more Transfers. I'm not sure most teams are like the Badgers in trying to fill starting roles with Transfers.  Have the Badgers not been plugging one or two starting spots with Transfers for the last 3 or 4 seasons?  In year 5 you would think Bono would have developed starters and not need to go get 6th year transfers.  Bono has definitely done a better job at marketing the program.  And honestly, I believe his strength is recruiting. But if we are talking about developing wrestlers to me there is no question B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited than has C.Bono.

They definitely are. Penn State, Iowa, Nebraska(just 1-3). They've all got transfers in the lineup right now.

I'm not sure why you think Wisconsin is unique in this. As a result, your following statements hold a bit less water.

Happening to be looking at this earlier today so I thought I would share

Wrestlestat tournament ranking, school and starters that are transfers

#1 – Penn St – (2) Dean, Kerkvliet
#2 – Nebraska – (4) Cronin, Burwick, Morton, Davidson
#3 – Iowa – (2) Teske, Woods

Appreciate you putting names to my 'yeah-huh, but I'm too lazy to look them all up,' reply.

There are 6 solid AAs in there. So it's hard for me to get upset about Gomez(who was done Wrestling until he decided to come back) or Lamont...who's winning some big matches as of late. I wonder what Michigan's looked like last year?

How many transfers or 7th year Wrestlers made up that roster? Not that there's anything wrong with that...just doubt UM of complaining about it.

Well, it's easy to look past my larger point and want to nitpick over the transfer statement.  I will go ahead and comment on it, however.  The past 5 years the Badgers have had 2019 1, 2020 4, 2021 1, 2022 3, and this season 2 transfers in the starting lineup.  To my larger point I was making in comparing Bono and Davis not Wisconsin and Every other program like you fellas like to do.  Bono is working with a different landscape than Barry did.  Bono gets praise for many things.  And some he rightfully should as I pointed out above.  But developing wrestlers is not what I would consider one of his strengths.  I think he is an excellent recruiter.  And a master promoter.

Also, if you guys want to call Greg Kerkvliet a transfer then I guess we need to call Barnett one as well.  Flipping your commitment does not make you a transfer.

Quote from: The Legend on February 21, 2023, 09:23:51 AMWell, it's easy to look past my larger point and want to nitpick over the transfer statement.  I will go ahead and comment on it, however.  The past 5 years the Badgers have had 2019 1, 2020 4, 2021 1, 2022 3, and this season 2 transfers in the starting lineup.  To my larger point I was making in comparing Bono and Davis not Wisconsin and Every other program like you fellas like to do.  Bono is working with a different landscape than Barry did.  Bono gets praise for many things.  And some he rightfully should as I pointed out above.  But developing wrestlers is not what I would consider one of his strengths.  I think he is an excellent recruiter.  And a master promoter.

Also, if you guys want to call Greg Kerkvliet a transfer then I guess we need to call Barnett one as well.  Flipping your commitment does not make you a transfer.

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6588186-breaking-greg-kerkvliet-has-entered-the-transfer-portal

Was he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

Quote from: vsmf2010 on February 21, 2023, 09:37:10 AM

Quote from: The Legend on February 21, 2023, 09:23:51 AMWell, it's easy to look past my larger point and want to nitpick over the transfer statement.  I will go ahead and comment on it, however.  The past 5 years the Badgers have had 2019 1, 2020 4, 2021 1, 2022 3, and this season 2 transfers in the starting lineup.  To my larger point I was making in comparing Bono and Davis not Wisconsin and Every other program like you fellas like to do.  Bono is working with a different landscape than Barry did.  Bono gets praise for many things.  And some he rightfully should as I pointed out above.  But developing wrestlers is not what I would consider one of his strengths.  I think he is an excellent recruiter.  And a master promoter.

Also, if you guys want to call Greg Kerkvliet a transfer then I guess we need to call Barnett one as well.  Flipping your commitment does not make you a transfer.

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6588186-breaking-greg-kerkvliet-has-entered-the-transfer-portal

That's the difference but I'd be ok saying just Dean is a transfer.

You don't think Barnett has improved?

Zargo? Never placed at NJ states, was up to 12th this year prior to injuries.

Gomez hasn't improved? He was off two years, had an excellent year and was possibly the best wrestler this year, definitely the most exciting, until injury.

Model- far better on his feet in the first period. I'm guessing he was a room guy so to speak and he's been starting and could be a round of 12 guy.

DJ likely a top 5 kid his freshman year, while he was a top recruit, that was not the expectation for a true frosh season and this year is just as dangerous, a little bigger. Destroying guys ranked in the top 15.

Not as much to say about Otto and Dow as they haven't been in the lineup to judge their development. But I would comment I see a lot more confidence in Tyler.

Amos was a heralded recruit and many thought top 5 kid, he just was a little tentative last year pulling the trigger and had Greco and family influences last year. Looks much better this year.

Hilger is just a great athlete and the weight class keeps getting better, he's definitely improved his wrestling and completely changed his body to have improved results. March is upon us.

Quote from: The Legend on February 21, 2023, 10:03:06 AMWas he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

He was enrolled, practicing, and had wrestled in the 2019 U23 World Championships while at Ohio St but had never suited up for them. Did take advantage of the transfer portal which is why I included him as a transfer. Prior to the portal he probably would have had to follow the old rules and sit because he was enrolled and on campus at Ohio St.

Before actually being enrolled at Ohio St he had previously committed to Minnesota and than Oklahoma St so 4 commitments, enrolled at 2 and wrestled at 1. Easy to be mistaken on this one. Need a score card to follow all of this.  ;D

Quote from: The Legend on February 21, 2023, 10:03:06 AMWas he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

Come on man, the goal line keeps changing to support an argument that Bono is a terrible coach and developer and lives at the transfer portal and will over recruit a kid through the portal.

First the argument was that "Bono built a house next to the portal" (Ben's words on Flo).  Someone pointed out that Missouri has 5 transfers on their team and Wisconsin only has 3.

Then the argument was that those Missouri kids weren't starters and Wisconsin uses the portal to get starters.  It was then pointed out that Nebraska has 4 starters on their team and Iowa and Penn State has 2 through the portal.

Now you think that because Kerk never wrestled a match for OSU, he's not really a transfer?? But the NCAA made him enter the Transfer portal?

Keep in mind that Brands over-recruited stud recruit Wyatt Henson to sign Real Woods and Cael over-recruited Michael Beard to sign Gabe Dean.  Everyone is doing it now so the idea to vilify Bono because he's used the transfer portal is silly in my opinion.  And if the argument then switches to "you wouldn't need to use the portal if you developed your own kids", it applies to every school too!

-Matt Deadman

Quote from: BuckyMatt on February 21, 2023, 10:40:24 AM

Quote from: The Legend on February 21, 2023, 10:03:06 AMWas he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

Come on man, the goal line keeps changing to support an argument that Bono is a terrible coach and developer and lives at the transfer portal and will over recruit a kid through the portal.

First the argument was that "Bono built a house next to the portal" (Ben's words on Flo).  Someone pointed out that Missouri has 5 transfers on their team and Wisconsin only has 3.

Then the argument was that those Missouri kids weren't starters and Wisconsin uses the portal to get starters.  It was then pointed out that Nebraska has 4 starters on their team and Iowa and Penn State has 2 through the portal.

Now you think that because Kerk never wrestled a match for OSU, he's not really a transfer?? But the NCAA made him enter the Transfer portal?

Keep in mind that Brands over-recruited stud recruit Wyatt Henson to sign Real Woods and Cael over-recruited Michael Beard to sign Gabe Dean.  Everyone is doing it now so the idea to vilify Bono because he's used the transfer portal is silly in my opinion.  And if the argument then switches to "you wouldn't need to use the portal if you developed your own kids", it applies to every school too!

-Matt Deadman

Yea I think you are getting who you want to hate mixed up here.  I am not Ben Askren.  I gave Bono praise for things I think he does well.  I do think he recruits heavy in the portal just as I think he recruits heavy for HS Athletes, and I never said he didn't.  You are a Pro Bono guy and will never see anything objectively, so I won't ask you too.  However, if you could simply go back and reread the larger point I was making when the topic is clearly under Badgers under Bono. I don't think there has been much difference between the two.  I think one does better at certain things and the other did better at certain things.  I know Bono is your god.  And he will never be someone who can be criticized in your eyes.  Let me ask you Matt did you have this same fire for Davis when he coached.  Maybe with a guy like you in his corner he could have been better?


Changing the goal posts?   The Badgers had 4 portal guys in their lineup 1 year and 3 in another what is the argument?  That PSU HWY be considered a transfer okay you win!  Who gives a crap.  This topic isn't about PSU it's about Bono and the Badgers.  Who is really changing the goal posts here?

Let me post this as well.  I felt there needed to be a change when Barry was let go.  I thought Bono was one of the top two guys up for the job. My posts previous to this are a direct reflection of my thoughts and feelings of looking at where they are now from where they were when he took over.  He has done some things well and some things I think not so well. 

Just a quick look. Bono's 41-28 in 5 years.  Barry was 39-28 in his last 5 years.

Quote from: The Legend on February 21, 2023, 10:56:13 AMLet me post this as well.  I felt there needed to be a change when Barry was let go.  I thought Bono was one of the top two guys up for the job. My posts previous to this are a direct reflection of my thoughts and feelings of looking at where they are now from where they were when he took over.  He has done some things well and some things I think not so well. 

Just a quick look. Bono's 41-28 in 5 years.  Barry was 39-28 in his last 5 years.

So show who you feel isn't developing and why? I defended Barry for quite a while as our resources were restrained, and still are at UW. However, the product we are putting on the mat is far more successful and exciting.

Quote from: The Legend on February 21, 2023, 10:51:39 AM

Quote from: BuckyMatt on February 21, 2023, 10:40:24 AM

Quote from: The Legend on February 21, 2023, 10:03:06 AMWas he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

Come on man, the goal line keeps changing to support an argument that Bono is a terrible coach and developer and lives at the transfer portal and will over recruit a kid through the portal.

First the argument was that "Bono built a house next to the portal" (Ben's words on Flo).  Someone pointed out that Missouri has 5 transfers on their team and Wisconsin only has 3.

Then the argument was that those Missouri kids weren't starters and Wisconsin uses the portal to get starters.  It was then pointed out that Nebraska has 4 starters on their team and Iowa and Penn State has 2 through the portal.

Now you think that because Kerk never wrestled a match for OSU, he's not really a transfer?? But the NCAA made him enter the Transfer portal?

Keep in mind that Brands over-recruited stud recruit Wyatt Henson to sign Real Woods and Cael over-recruited Michael Beard to sign Gabe Dean.  Everyone is doing it now so the idea to vilify Bono because he's used the transfer portal is silly in my opinion.  And if the argument then switches to "you wouldn't need to use the portal if you developed your own kids", it applies to every school too!

-Matt Deadman

Yea I think you are getting who you want to hate mixed up here.  I am not Ben Askren.  I gave Bono praise for things I think he does well.  I do think he recruits heavy in the portal just as I think he recruits heavy for HS Athletes, and I never said he didn't.  You are a Pro Bono guy and will never see anything objectively, so I won't ask you too.  However, if you could simply go back and reread the larger point I was making when the topic is clearly under Badgers under Bono. I don't think there has been much difference between the two.  I think one does better at certain things and the other did better at certain things.  I know Bono is your god.  And he will never be someone who can be criticized in your eyes.  Let me ask you Matt did you have this same fire for Davis when he coached.  Maybe with a guy like you in his corner he could have been better?


Changing the goal posts?   The Badgers had 4 portal guys in their lineup 1 year and 3 in another what is the argument?  That PSU HWY be considered a transfer okay you win!  Who gives a crap.  This topic isn't about PSU it's about Bono and the Badgers.  Who is really changing the goal posts here?

Who I want to hate??  I don't hate anyone!  I certainly don't hate Ben Askren; I've said in previous posts I think he is good for the state of Wisconsin Wrestling.  Do I wish he and Bono got a long, absolutely.  But do I Hate him, or you, or anyone else that disagrees with me, absolutely not.  If we can't have civil discourse or conversation without saying we hate the other side, that's a sad testament to our society.  In the last few weeks, I've had very polite and engaging private conversations with people that may have differing opinions than me; Tim Spray, Ernie Millard and Tristan Moran all about the Badgers and Coach Bono.  I think all 3 parties would agree it was civil, respectful, and criticism's were made and heard on both sides. All 3 great people I enjoy talking wrestling with!

In regards to your question on Barry Davis, I was indeed a strong supporter of his but the last few years definitely waned in my support and felt it was time for a change. 

Quote from: BuckyMatt on February 21, 2023, 10:40:24 AM

Quote from: The Legend on February 21, 2023, 10:03:06 AMWas he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

Come on man, the goal line keeps changing to support an argument that Bono is a terrible coach and developer and lives at the transfer portal and will over recruit a kid through the portal.

First the argument was that "Bono built a house next to the portal" (Ben's words on Flo).  Someone pointed out that Missouri has 5 transfers on their team and Wisconsin only has 3.

Then the argument was that those Missouri kids weren't starters and Wisconsin uses the portal to get starters.  It was then pointed out that Nebraska has 4 starters on their team and Iowa and Penn State has 2 through the portal.

Now you think that because Kerk never wrestled a match for OSU, he's not really a transfer?? But the NCAA made him enter the Transfer portal?

Keep in mind that Brands over-recruited stud recruit Wyatt Henson to sign Real Woods and Cael over-recruited Michael Beard to sign Gabe Dean.  Everyone is doing it now so the idea to vilify Bono because he's used the transfer portal is silly in my opinion.  And if the argument then switches to "you wouldn't need to use the portal if you developed your own kids", it applies to every school too!

-Matt Deadman

Well said...nice to have take based on reality

Quote from: The Legend on February 20, 2023, 05:47:58 PMYou must be having two separate conversations in your head.  I never said a word about the last chance tournament. There you go again with Missouri has 5 so and so has 12.  Look the Badgers use the portal to fill starting spots.  Can you deny this?  My whole point on that topic is you wouldn't have to if you were developing your own guys better.  I didn't say guys were not improving I said I felt B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited Moreso than Bono.   And I watch the matches very intently!  Thank you.   If you do an honest assessment, you will see B.Davis last 5 years compared to C.Bono first 5 years are very similar.  Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.  It's not terrible.

You need to get with the current times, the transfer portal is used by everyone in every sport and more so now with NIL.  Bono does NOT use it any more than other coaches (in all sports).  UW football got 15 new guys via the transfer portal.  Heck look at Kyle Ruschell down at UT-Chattaooga, he had 5 new transfers coming from schools like Ohio St, Oklahoma and Stanford.

Enough of this discussion, this is a Ben driven mean spirited talking point

[quote author=novice wrestler

You need to get with the current times, the transfer portal is used by everyone in every sport and more so now with NIL.  Bono does NOT use it any more than other coaches (in all sports).  UW football got 15 new guys via the transfer portal.  Heck look at Kyle Ruschell down at UT-Chattaooga, he had 5 new transfers coming from schools like Ohio St, Oklahoma and Stanford.

Enough of this discussion, this is a Ben driven mean spirited talking point
[/quote]

Quote from: novice wrestler on February 21, 2023, 02:51:37 PM

Quote from: The Legend on February 20, 2023, 05:47:58 PMYou must be having two separate conversations in your head.  I never said a word about the last chance tournament. There you go again with Missouri has 5 so and so has 12.  Look the Badgers use the portal to fill starting spots.  Can you deny this?  My whole point on that topic is you wouldn't have to if you were developing your own guys better.  I didn't say guys were not improving I said I felt B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited Moreso than Bono.   And I watch the matches very intently!  Thank you.   If you do an honest assessment, you will see B.Davis last 5 years compared to C.Bono first 5 years are very similar.  Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.  It's not terrible.

You need to get with the current times, the transfer portal is used by everyone in every sport and more so now with NIL.  Bono does NOT use it any more than other coaches (in all sports).  UW football got 15 new guys via the transfer portal.  Heck look at Kyle Ruschell down at UT-Chattaooga, he had 5 new transfers coming from schools like Ohio St, Oklahoma and Stanford.

Enough of this discussion, this is a Ben driven mean spirited talking point

That is all this is, and it's a ridiculous criticism.  I don't hear a lot of football fans complaining about Fickel's portal results.

Someone wrote that Ben is good for Wisconsin wrestling.  I disagree.  Ben is good for AWA, which in fairness is how he makes his money.  He doesn't owe UW or Wisconsin wrestling anything, but he isn't good for it. 

Quote from: 1Iota on February 21, 2023, 03:47:04 PMSomeone wrote that Ben is good for Wisconsin wrestling.  I disagree.  Ben is good for AWA, which in fairness is how he makes his money.  He doesn't owe UW or Wisconsin wrestling anything, but he isn't good for it. 

Well, it depends on on how you define "Wisconsin wrestling" doesn't it? AWA has upped the bar in terms of élite quality wrestlers coming out of high school in the state of Wisconsin - would any one argue against that point?

However, if AWA (Askren) is directing talent away from the UW, is that supporting Wisconsin wrestling? I am not convinced that it is necessarily "damaging Wisconsin wrestling." Personally, I don't think the UW and Wisconsin wrestling are synonymous - they aren't one-in-the-same. Other than the superficial "Ben wants to be the coach at UW" and will under-cut another coach," I don't know if Askren is doing "Wisconsin wrestling" a disservice. I don't think Askren owes blind obedience to the UW. He has earned his right to a separate an individual opinion. That said, I would only hope that he exercises it with maturity. I don't know what all of the issues are between Askren and Bono/Davis are/were, but he owes it to his wrestlers (and his own legacy) to be frank and honest about it.

Bono has done no better job than Davis.  It's been FIVE years and this team is tied for second to last place in the Big Ten at 1-7.  The numbers don't lie.  Keep drinking the Bono KOOL AID.  The guy cant land a big in state recruit and that cant be argued.  If your okay with 1-7 in the Big Ten then thats fine.....he's done nothing little to nothing for the program in the five years he's been here.

This thread never ceases to amaze me.

Can't land in-state recruits- True. Partially a program issue. Partially beyond Bono's control
Alumni/Community Support- Is there any? Travel to NCAAs and see what Penn State/Iowa bring and then tell me.
Transfers vs. recruits- Brought in Amos, Hamiti, Gomez, Lamont, Zargo. Seems like a mix to me.
Depth- Hurt by not landing in-state recruits. Also effected by roster limits. Directly contributed to dual losses.
There's no RTC to speak of. That's a problem.

NIL can't always be funded by the school. We don't have any big donors, or even small donors. If Penn State goes to a kid and offers them NIL money that is bigger than a scholarship, they take it. Where does that money come from at Wisconsin?

We ask for the world, but we don't give anything in return in this state.





I'm not defending Bono. I'm also not running a campaign against him.

Quote from: wrestle03 on February 22, 2023, 09:51:40 AMBono has done no better job than Davis.  It's been FIVE years and this team is tied for second to last place in the Big Ten at 1-7.  The numbers don't lie.  Keep drinking the Bono KOOL AID.  The guy cant land a big in state recruit and that cant be argued.  If your okay with 1-7 in the Big Ten then thats fine.....he's done nothing little to nothing for the program in the five years he's been here.

The proof for this year will be determined in the next two tournaments.  If they finish 10th or better in the NCAA tournament then I assume your take will change.  True statement currently about in state recruits but if those kids don't want to come to UW and the coaches can't even get in their house or get them on campus, then go to other states and get high level recruits that want to be at UW!!  Certainly getting some great wrestlers from Illinois

Quote from: novice wrestler on February 22, 2023, 10:36:46 AM

Quote from: wrestle03 on February 22, 2023, 09:51:40 AMBono has done no better job than Davis.  It's been FIVE years and this team is tied for second to last place in the Big Ten at 1-7.  The numbers don't lie.  Keep drinking the Bono KOOL AID.  The guy cant land a big in state recruit and that cant be argued.  If your okay with 1-7 in the Big Ten then thats fine.....he's done nothing little to nothing for the program in the five years he's been here.

The proof for this year will be determined in the next two tournaments.  If they finish 10th or better in the NCAA tournament then I assume your take will change.  True statement currently about in state recruits but if those kids don't want to come to UW and the coaches can't even get in their house or get them on campus, then go to other states and get high level recruits that want to be at UW!!  Certainly getting some great wrestlers from Illinois

Will you change your tune if they don't?  I highly doubt it. 

None of this would be a discussion topic if Gomez was healthy all year.

The Badgers would have won the Midlands for the 1st time ever and finished 11-5 in the duals.

Wisconsin Wrestling Fan:  Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda, but no guarantees they would have finished 11-5
You are being a bit delusional.

Quote from: wrestle03 on February 22, 2023, 11:10:08 AMWisconsin Wrestling Fan:  Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda, but no guarantees they would have finished 11-5
You are being a bit delusional.

No, I'm not. Look at the matchups in the close duals and look at how he would have place at Midlands.

You don't easily replace someone like Gomez. I suppose you can argue "where's the depth" but you are not going to replace a guy ranked 1st or 2nd in the polls with a backup of similar caliber.

Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on February 22, 2023, 11:13:58 AM

Quote from: wrestle03 on February 22, 2023, 11:10:08 AMWisconsin Wrestling Fan:  Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda, but no guarantees they would have finished 11-5
You are being a bit delusional.

No, I'm not. Look at the matchups in the close duals and look at how he would have place at Midlands.

You don't easily replace someone like Gomez. I suppose you can argue "where's the depth" but you are not going to replace a guy ranked 1st or 2nd in the polls with a backup of similar caliber.

Its unfortunate that Gomez was injured, but I think Wisconsin ended up getting Gomez precisely because of his prior injury history and injury risk (though it was concussion not knee), so its not entirely unexpected that Gomez might miss time.  The problem with the "what if our guys were all healthy" hypothesizing is that in fairness you need to look at the other teams' rosters and figure out who on their rosters were injured or out for the season too based on injury.  I also note that some posters raved at the "tie" with Iowa without accounting for the fact that several of their starters sat out.  Reality, is Wisconsin didn't fare well in Big Ten duals and if Gomez was there they assuredly would have done better, but perhaps some of those other teams would have fared better too if their guys were there or were healthy. 

"Bono has done no better job than Davis.  It's been FIVE years and this team is tied for second to last place in the Big Ten at 1-7.  The numbers don't lie.  Keep drinking the Bono KOOL AID.  The guy cant land a big in state recruit and that cant be argued.  If your okay with 1-7 in the Big Ten then thats fine.....he's done nothing little to nothing for the program in the five years he's been here."

(Sigh) Ten years from now this what you will be writing:

{Coach X} has done no better job than Bono.  It's been FIVE years and this team is tied for second to last place in the Big Ten at 1-7.  The numbers don't lie.  Keep drinking the {Coach X} KOOL AID.  The guy cant land a big in state recruit and that cant be argued.  If your okay with 1-7 in the Big Ten then that's fine.....he's done nothing little to nothing for the program in the five years he's been here.

And the reason why is perfectly spelled out by Ghetto:

This thread never ceases to amaze me.

Can't land in-state recruits- True. Partially a program issue. Partially beyond Bono's control
Alumni/Community Support- Is there any? Travel to NCAAs and see what Penn State/Iowa bring and then tell me.
Transfers vs. recruits- Brought in Amos, Hamiti, Gomez, Lamont, Zargo. Seems like a mix to me.
Depth- Hurt by not landing in-state recruits. Also effected by roster limits. Directly contributed to dual losses.
There's no RTC to speak of. That's a problem.

NIL can't always be funded by the school. We don't have any big donors, or even small donors. If Penn State goes to a kid and offers them NIL money that is bigger than a scholarship, they take it. Where does that money come from at Wisconsin?

We ask for the world, but we don't give anything in return in this state.

Which is just typical of a lot of wrestling fans in Wisconsin.

Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on February 22, 2023, 11:13:58 AM

Quote from: wrestle03 on February 22, 2023, 11:10:08 AMWisconsin Wrestling Fan:  Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda, but no guarantees they would have finished 11-5
You are being a bit delusional.

No, I'm not. Look at the matchups in the close duals and look at how he would have place at Midlands.

You don't easily replace someone like Gomez. I suppose you can argue "where's the depth" but you are not going to replace a guy ranked 1st or 2nd in the polls with a backup of similar caliber.

Besides Iowa holding out starters as someone else posted, didn't Minnesota also hold out 3 starters?  Think it was at 157 (lee), 165 (Sparks), and now for sure 184 (Salazar...with WI kid Skillings beating Dow)?

You can play the "maybe" game both ways.  Loss is a Loss.

Same could be said about Midlands--with the first year of the IA Soldier Salute Tourney.

Wait until next year was a cry for years now it isnthe what if, and buts and ors for the battle cry?

Bono has hit the portal well for sure. Has landed some big recruits also. The depth is the key for sure and that is the only place Bono has feel a tick short!

Barry A has his distractions starting out and Barry gave his big f...u to those distractions and until Bono can say that to his distractions he is going to struggle in Wisconsin landing recruits and room guys.......don't believe me not one big name junior has signed on the line and a senior either. Hopke is still out there, though

Hey I am a supporter on the Bono hire for sure. Until some pointed out he has done the same as Barry Davis last 5 years inwas kind of shocked. I agree it seems different in Madison the past 5 years after Davis last 5 years.

Can we say Bono has gotten the Badgers to the pre 2012 standings in both results and attendance? I think that is fair with Gomez, DJ legit NC contenders?

I hear through the grapevine, Bono and team had in a bunch of northwest wrestlers to watch wrestling and meet and greet! That is totally awesome. Let's shut the borders off and make the kids at least take a look at wisconsin before leaving the state!

This makes me very happy to see!

Quote from: littleguy301 on February 23, 2023, 11:21:38 AMI hear through the grapevine, Bono and team had in a bunch of northwest wrestlers to watch wrestling and meet and greet! That is totally awesome. Let's shut the borders off and make the kids at least take a look at wisconsin before leaving the state!

This makes me very happy to see!

That is good news. Thanks for sharing

Quote from: littleguy301 on February 23, 2023, 11:21:38 AMI hear through the grapevine, Bono and team had in a bunch of northwest wrestlers to watch wrestling and meet and greet! That is totally awesome. Let's shut the borders off and make the kids at least take a look at wisconsin before leaving the state!

This makes me very happy to see!

Build a wall😁

Quote from: leg turk on February 23, 2023, 11:58:30 AM

Quote from: littleguy301 on February 23, 2023, 11:21:38 AMI hear through the grapevine, Bono and team had in a bunch of northwest wrestlers to watch wrestling and meet and greet! That is totally awesome. Let's shut the borders off and make the kids at least take a look at wisconsin before leaving the state!

This makes me very happy to see!

Build a wall😁

LOL...that ain't gonna work. Someone's gonna cut a hole in it and push certain kids out.

But he doesn't need a wall. He's shown he can go and get big time recruits from out of State(particularly Cali). And if he just gets a couple top in-state Wrestlers(Hopke is the Hope Jewel) and then keep pulling in a couple of studs from out of State, I think it could lessen some influence and build on itself.


The "if you're happy with 1-7...." nonsense is just that. First of all, that's never made sense to me. As though the final comes down to what the person who WON'T accept 1-7 in the B1G says or thinks?

Second, we know it's a bogus number. The B1G is too competitive to take out a kid like Gomez. It's a 6-12 point swing when there are razor thin margins.

I'd take Iowa out of it and say they probably should have been 6-2, won the Midlands(this wasn't the first year of the Soldier Salute either).

They beat Cornell. That's an elite team. So it's not just a totally random guess that they'd have won the 1 point matches with the #2 149 in the Country.



Littleguy seems to have the most reasonable, unbiased takes. Seems to want the Badgers to succeed, but can point out where they're coming up short without taking some joy in it.


Bottom line, unless the Badgers HC is handpicked by someone in the State and bends the knee, kisses the ring, he's gonna miss out on most of his in-state talent. Is there another B1G school dealing with the same issues? Despite that,  I'd still say the program is better under Bono, but this is a abnormally difficult job.

Here is my question, and I am not trying to create controversy.  This is a real question that I don't have the answer to.  Other than O'tool, who are the D-1 studs that AWA has produced that UW is missing out on?  I know Mocco has had a very good run at Missouri as well, but I can't think of anyone else. 

Quote from: 1Iota on February 24, 2023, 09:41:58 AMHere is my question, and I am not trying to create controversy.  This is a real question that I don't have the answer to.  Other than O'tool, who are the D-1 studs that AWA has produced that UW is missing out on?  I know Mocco has had a very good run at Missouri as well, but I can't think of anyone else. 

The other one would be Keckeisen. I think the rest would be the highly regarded/ranked athletes who have gone or have committed to go elsewhere but are not wrestling in the lineup or on campus yet. Whiting, the Mirasola brothers, Clark, Sinclair, Scoles, Millard etc... All indications are they will be very good college wrestlers but we truly will not know for a few years. 

Quote from: vsmf2010 on February 24, 2023, 10:07:54 AM

Quote from: 1Iota on February 24, 2023, 09:41:58 AMHere is my question, and I am not trying to create controversy.  This is a real question that I don't have the answer to.  Other than O'tool, who are the D-1 studs that AWA has produced that UW is missing out on?  I know Mocco has had a very good run at Missouri as well, but I can't think of anyone else. 

The other one would be Keckeisen. I think the rest would be the highly regarded/ranked athletes who have gone or have committed to go elsewhere but are not wrestling in the lineup or on campus yet. Whiting, the Mirasola brothers, Clark, Sinclair, Scoles, Millard etc... All indications are they will be very good college wrestlers but we truly will not know for a few years. 

Thank you

Parker Keckheisn
Payton Mocco
Just lost both Mirasola boys
Clayton Whiting
Blaine Brenner
Aiden Sinclair
Ethan Riddle

I am sure I missed a few but that is a pretty nice list.

Quote from: SP on February 24, 2023, 01:17:18 PMParker Keckheisn
Payton Mocco
Just lost both Mirasola boys
Clayton Whiting
Blaine Brenner
Aiden Sinclair
Ethan Riddle

I am sure I missed a few but that is a pretty nice list.

Kreckeisen & Mocco would defintitely have been nice additions.  We don't know about the rest yet. 

Quote from: 1Iota on February 24, 2023, 01:23:15 PM

Quote from: SP on February 24, 2023, 01:17:18 PMParker Keckheisn
Payton Mocco
Just lost both Mirasola boys
Clayton Whiting
Blaine Brenner
Aiden Sinclair
Ethan Riddle

I am sure I missed a few but that is a pretty nice list.

Kreckeisen & Mocco would defintitely have been nice additions.  We don't know about the rest yet. 

Messenbrink? I know about him. If he Wrestles 4 years, he's gonna be an AA multiple times and it wouldn't shock me to see him end up on a podium. keckeisen has 3 years left, has as good of a chance to win it as anyone on this current team and would also be the most accomplished. That one stings(at a weight we've been...a bit up and down at).
Sinclair is close to a lock to be a VERY good '74. As much as one can be at this point in time.

Millard is an a stud. There are a LOT more than on this list.

Riddle is one of the kids who I think is a little under the radar who I think will have an outstanding College career if he's dedicated and all in on the Wrestling. And you should add that qualifier for every Wrestler.

We've seen the top ranked Wrestlers end up doing very little in College. You're starting from the bottom after spending your whole life on top. You're going to go through a lot of self doubt. I remember a story about Ben himself sitting down after a practice as a True Freshmen and getting emotional because he was getting scored on(maybe it was Woodley or Lewis...I can't recall). But he was getting manhandled because they were much more explosive. He overcame that self doubt.

On the flip side, there are lower ranked recruits who go out and have extraordinary careers. Guys who never won a State Title who win National Titles.

But I'd venture a guess that there will be quite a few All-Americans and a few National Champions from the current Jrs and Srs at AWA(as well as those who are already on campus and haven't yet competed for their respective  College teams(particularly Messenbrink who...I believe beat Haines fairly recently).

Quote from: Vir Fortis on February 24, 2023, 12:54:01 AM

Quote from: leg turk on February 23, 2023, 11:58:30 AM

Quote from: littleguy301 on February 23, 2023, 11:21:38 AMI hear through the grapevine, Bono and team had in a bunch of northwest wrestlers to watch wrestling and meet and greet! That is totally awesome. Let's shut the borders off and make the kids at least take a look at wisconsin before leaving the state!

This makes me very happy to see!

Build a wall😁

LOL...that ain't gonna work. Someone's gonna cut a hole in it and push certain kids out.

But he doesn't need a wall. He's shown he can go and get big time recruits from out of State(particularly Cali). And if he just gets a couple top in-state Wrestlers(Hopke is the Hope Jewel) and then keep pulling in a couple of studs from out of State, I think it could lessen some influence and build on itself.


The "if you're happy with 1-7...." nonsense is just that. First of all, that's never made sense to me. As though the final comes down to what the person who WON'T accept 1-7 in the B1G says or thinks?

Second, we know it's a bogus number. The B1G is too competitive to take out a kid like Gomez. It's a 6-12 point swing when there are razor thin margins.

I'd take Iowa out of it and say they probably should have been 6-2, won the Midlands(this wasn't the first year of the Soldier Salute either).

They beat Cornell. That's an elite team. So it's not just a totally random guess that they'd have won the 1 point matches with the #2 149 in the Country.



Littleguy seems to have the most reasonable, unbiased takes. Seems to want the Badgers to succeed, but can point out where they're coming up short without taking some joy in it.


Bottom line, unless the Badgers HC is handpicked by someone in the State and bends the knee, kisses the ring, he's gonna miss out on most of his in-state talent. Is there another B1G school dealing with the same issues? Despite that,  I'd still say the program is better under Bono, but this is a abnormally difficult job.

Not saying land everyone in wisconsin. Just saying I hope every kid that leaves wisconsin to wrestle at least had some contact with the wisconsin staff. Is that to much to ask?

I know transfers, out of state kids are needed to build a top program. But to build depth we need some of these kids to stick around and stay home.

Ben has done a great job as has all the clubs in wisconsin in developing some great kids! With out trying to all these club coaches kind of do have a say in wisconsin wrestling by their time and effort and their results. Most likely they were here before Bono and more than likely after Bono.

Bono, your the top dog in wiscosin wrestling, you have the reins, now let's get it done  ;D !

Scoles!

It's not always about talent. Some kids don't have the grades to get into Madison.

Seems like hopke would

Quote from: leg turk on February 25, 2023, 08:15:23 PMIt's not always about talent. Some kids don't have the grades to get into Madison.

This is true, but it's not worth speculating about if we don't know...and frankly, if we do, this isn't the best place to put it.

And the larger issue is there are kids who just simply won't take UWs calls.

But Miguel Estrada just won in the State Finals over the 10th ranked kid with the #1 ranked Wrestler in the bracket(after having the 3 top ranked kids all at 145 in California for a stretch this year before two went back up to 152).

And Estrada wins it again for the 2nd straight year. Estrada with a pin in the Finals over the kid who beat Parco(#1 nationally) before a tough SV win over fellow future Badger Root.

And Condon dominated his way through the toughest State Tournament in the Country(by virtue of the 1 division, not to suggest it's quite on the level of Penn or Ohio). Exceptional showing by future Badgers in California.

Quote from: wrestlemania on February 11, 2023, 11:30:20 PM"Maybe he can get lucky and pillage the transfer portal this offseason."

He'll have to since you seem to discourage your club's top wrestlers from even considering attending Wisconsin.

And quite frankly Mr. Askren, what do you care? Your not a UW alumn. It's no skin off your nose what happens in Madison. So is it too much to ask you leave UW wrestling in peace and stop this ugly dispute even if you do hate the school and anything it seems connected to it? It benefits no one and simply divides fans in this state. For once just consider that silence sometimes is indeed gold.   

... now THAT'S funny!!!

Quote from: 1Iota on February 24, 2023, 01:23:15 PM

Quote from: SP on February 24, 2023, 01:17:18 PMParker Keckheisn
Payton Mocco
Just lost both Mirasola boys
Clayton Whiting
Blaine Brenner
Aiden Sinclair
Ethan Riddle

I am sure I missed a few but that is a pretty nice list.

Kreckeisen & Mocco would defintitely have been nice additions.  We don't know about the rest yet. 

From what I understand, Davis wasn't really in on Keckeisen. When Bono got hired, he tried to get him but by then it was too late.

I am a huge Parker fan, and am looking forward to his success at NCAAs again this year. That said, he was on no one's radar nationally until he went bananas at Fargo. That might have been after his senior year, but I'm too lazy to go back and look.   

Mocco was, what, a 1x state champ? Another kid I loved watching, but his resume wasnt something that would predict his success at the next level.

Rather than misses, I'd call them steals for UNI and Missouri.

Quote from: Ghetto on February 26, 2023, 07:41:37 PMI am a huge Parker fan, and am looking forward to his success at NCAAs again this year. That said, he was on no one's radar nationally until he went bananas at Fargo. That might have been after his senior year, but I'm too lazy to go back and look.   

Mocco was, what, a 1x state champ? Another kid I loved watching, but his resume wasnt something that would predict his success at the next level.

Rather than misses, I'd call them steals for UNI and Missouri.

Mocco was a 2x champ.  4th, Q, 1st, 1st

Not looking good.

Bono needs to find most of the lineup in the Transfer Portal
Barnett (if he uses another year)
Rivera
Zargo
Medora
Anderson
Hamiti
Otto
Rowley
Amos
Empey

That is a scary weak lineup. Hope I am missing something.

Quote from: dad 2 5 on February 27, 2023, 06:10:30 PMNot looking good.

Bono needs to find most of the lineup in the Transfer Portal
Barnett (if he uses another year)
Rivera
Zargo
Medora
Anderson
Hamiti
Otto
Rowley
Amos
Empey

That is a scary weak lineup. Hope I am missing something.

Gomez has another year. Bobzien is an option at 133. 

I believe Dow can come back if he chooses. Pretty sure Scharenbrock could also.

Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on February 27, 2023, 06:15:21 PM

Quote from: dad 2 5 on February 27, 2023, 06:10:30 PMNot looking good.

Bono needs to find most of the lineup in the Transfer Portal
Barnett (if he uses another year)
Rivera
Zargo
Medora
Anderson
Hamiti
Otto
Rowley
Amos
Empey

That is a scary weak lineup. Hope I am missing something.

Gomez has another year. Bobzien is an option at 133. 

I believe Dow can come back if he chooses. Pretty sure Scharenbrock could also.

Hope that is all true WWF. That would bring a lot to the lineup!

The only 3 that are gone for sure are Lamont, Model and Hillger

Going to have a minimum of 3 former AA's back

Could look something like this

Barnett
Rivera or Bobzien
Zargo
Gomez
Sharenbrock, Goebel, Anderson or Julian George (no idea if Drew is coming back)
Hamiti
Otto, Rowley, Calhoun or Lucas Condon
Dow, Otto, Rowley, Calhoun or Lucas Condon (no idea if Tyler is coming back)
Amos or Tal-Shahar (I am thinking there is a chance that Braxton takes an Olympic redshirt)
Christensen, Rosenfeld, Empey or Schmidke (the order is based on this years results)

Quote from: vsmf2010 on February 27, 2023, 08:37:17 PMThe only 3 that are gone for sure are Lamont, Model and Hillger

Going to have a minimum of 3 former AA's back

Could look something like this

Barnett
Rivera or Bobzien
Zargo
Gomez
Sharenbrock, Goebel, Anderson or Julian George (no idea if Drew is coming back)
Hamiti
Otto, Rowley, Calhoun or Lucas Condon
Dow, Otto, Rowley, Calhoun or Lucas Condon (no idea if Tyler is coming back)
Amos or Tal-Shahar (I am thinking there is a chance that Braxton takes an Olympic redshirt)
Christensen, Rosenfeld, Empey or Schmidke (the order is based on this years results)

I believe Gomez could Olympic too.

Quote from: wrastle63 on February 27, 2023, 08:46:00 PM

Quote from: vsmf2010 on February 27, 2023, 08:37:17 PMThe only 3 that are gone for sure are Lamont, Model and Hillger

Going to have a minimum of 3 former AA's back

Could look something like this

Barnett
Rivera or Bobzien
Zargo
Gomez
Sharenbrock, Goebel, Anderson or Julian George (no idea if Drew is coming back)
Hamiti
Otto, Rowley, Calhoun or Lucas Condon
Dow, Otto, Rowley, Calhoun or Lucas Condon (no idea if Tyler is coming back)
Amos or Tal-Shahar (I am thinking there is a chance that Braxton takes an Olympic redshirt)
Christensen, Rosenfeld, Empey or Schmidke (the order is based on this years results)

I believe Gomez could Olympic too.

He sure could. Good point.

Quote from: dad 2 5 on February 27, 2023, 06:10:30 PMNot looking good.

Bono needs to find most of the lineup in the Transfer Portal
Barnett (if he uses another year)
Rivera
Zargo
Medora
Anderson
Hamiti
Otto
Rowley
Amos
Empey

That is a scary weak lineup. Hope I am missing something.

Didn't they cut Rowley down to 174 late this year? I hope they can get him up to 200 bills this summer and go down to 184.

Bono does very well in the portal so......also maybe one of the high level recruits just blows the door off of the hinges and steps up and suprises!

Quote from: littleguy301 on February 27, 2023, 09:42:39 PM

Quote from: dad 2 5 on February 27, 2023, 06:10:30 PMNot looking good.

Bono needs to find most of the lineup in the Transfer Portal
Barnett (if he uses another year)
Rivera
Zargo
Medora
Anderson
Hamiti
Otto
Rowley
Amos
Empey

That is a scary weak lineup. Hope I am missing something.

Didn't they cut Rowley down to 174 late this year? I hope they can get him up to 200 bills this summer and go down to 184.

Bono does very well in the portal so......also maybe one of the high level recruits just blows the door off of the hinges and steps up and suprises!

Rowley wrestled 174 this entire season up until 2 weeks ago at the Last Chance Open where he wrestled 184.

Coy @ 133 and Lettini @ 141 will be in the mix also.

Quite a bit of young talent that needs to take the next step in their 2nd season.

I wonder if Nicolar could eventually be at 125. No reason to be there while Eric is at 125.

Besides Lucas Condon, what incoming freshman are coming in?

Quote from: asdf on February 28, 2023, 07:37:15 PMBesides Lucas Condon, what incoming freshman are coming in?

Brock Bobzien is coming off grey shirt
Julian George

Quote from: walden_hiker on February 28, 2023, 07:57:52 PM

Quote from: asdf on February 28, 2023, 07:37:15 PMBesides Lucas Condon, what incoming freshman are coming in?

Brock Bobzien is coming off grey shirt
Julian George

Also have Daniel Sheen, a redshirt freshman who transferred in From Indiana on January 9th. Wrestled 14 matches this year as a redshirt. Five for Indiana before he transferred and the rest after. Wrestled at the Don Parker Open and the last chance open in February.

Quote from: crossface21 on February 28, 2023, 11:26:25 AM

Quote from: littleguy301 on February 27, 2023, 09:42:39 PM

Quote from: dad 2 5 on February 27, 2023, 06:10:30 PMNot looking good.

Bono needs to find most of the lineup in the Transfer Portal
Barnett (if he uses another year)
Rivera
Zargo
Medora
Anderson
Hamiti
Otto
Rowley
Amos
Empey

That is a scary weak lineup. Hope I am missing something.

Didn't they cut Rowley down to 174 late this year? I hope they can get him up to 200 bills this summer and go down to 184.

Bono does very well in the portal so......also maybe one of the high level recruits just blows the door off of the hinges and steps up and suprises!

Rowley wrestled 174 this entire season up until 2 weeks ago at the Last Chance Open where he wrestled 184.

I just remember reading  Rowley was a 184/197 recruit then seeing him at 174. Good to see him at 184 if that is a workable weight.

To be honest didnt see the last chance results, thanks for the update.

not done but in a few matches it will be. So what are your thoughts now on Bono and the Badgers?

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 05, 2023, 04:48:10 PMnot done but in a few matches it will be. So what are your thoughts now on Bono and the Badgers?

I think there is a different feel than Barry last 5 years but in reality it is basically the same results Bono first 5 and Barry last 5.

Take it for what it is worth.

Quote from: littleguy301 on March 05, 2023, 06:52:15 PM

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 05, 2023, 04:48:10 PMnot done but in a few matches it will be. So what are your thoughts now on Bono and the Badgers?

I think there is a different feel than Barry last 5 years but in reality it is basically the same results Bono first 5 and Barry last

Take it for what it is worth.

This feels accurate.  Definitely a different feel, but when we are honest the results are the very similar.  I am still a believer, hope I am right someday.

This has been a tough year but I really do love the new atmosphere at the field house.  Many more fans, mat side seating, Big Ten coverage, very competitive wrestlers, and an accessible coaching staff if you take the time to get to know them.  I think back to the wrestling matches in the 80's and 90's and it wasn't even close to the level of excitement and attendance I am seeing now.  For that reason alone, I am still very optimistic about the changes, but I also recognize we all want the team to improve from being in the middle of the Big Ten.  Injuries clearly showed a lack of depth at all weights this year.

I think of Penn State's 125 situation.  Why can't the best coaching staff in the country develop a great wrestler at that weight?  If the coaching staff was that great at getting average wrestlers to become elite, they wouldn't have that glaring hole year after year.  Maybe some of the success comes down to being able to recruit the best year in and year out now that they have created a dynasty.  If that is the case, the Badgers have a long way to make up ground with Penn State, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio State and other top tier teams especially if the top club in the state is not supporting the program.  It really is a shame but I think the coaching staff is determined to prove all the haters wrong.  Only time will tell if they succeed or not but it clearly is an uphill battle at this point.  They did seem to have momentum before COVID hit, but then all the progress just vanished.

Regardless of the coach and regardless of the record, I will remain a Wisconsin wrestling fan for life. On Wisconsin!

Congratulations to DJ Hamiti on his Big Ten Championship.  Not many wrestlers can say they were a Big Ten Champ at Wisconsin.  Congrats to all the qualifiers as well.  That alone is also a great accomplishment similar to making it to state in high school.  It makes me laugh at all the criticism considering how hard it is to become a D1 wrestler let alone a qualifier.

On a side note, I am really excited to see what the new coaching staff for the football team can do.

Quote from: Harris on March 05, 2023, 07:45:05 PMThis has been a tough year but I really do love the new atmosphere at the field house.  Many more fans, mat side seating, Big Ten coverage, very competitive wrestlers, and an accessible coaching staff if you take the time to get to know them.  I think back to the wrestling matches in the 80's and 90's and it wasn't even close to the level of excitement and attendance I am seeing now.  For that reason alone, I am still very optimistic about the changes, but I also recognize we all want the team to improve from being in the middle of the Big Ten.  Injuries clearly showed a lack of depth at all weights this year.

I think of Penn State's 125 situation.  Why can't the best coaching staff in the country develop a great wrestler at that weight?  If the coaching staff was that great at getting average wrestlers to become elite, they wouldn't have that glaring hole year after year.  Maybe some of the success comes down to being able to recruit the best year in and year out now that they have created a dynasty.  If that is the case, the Badgers have a long way to make up ground with Penn State, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio State and other top tier teams especially if the top club in the state is not supporting the program.  It really is a shame but I think the coaching staff is determined to prove all the haters wrong.  Only time will tell if they succeed or not but it clearly is an uphill battle at this point.  They did seem to have momentum before COVID hit, but then all the progress just vanished.

Regardless of the coach and regardless of the record, I will remain a Wisconsin wrestling fan for life. On Wisconsin!

Congratulations to DJ Hamiti on his Big Ten Championship.  Not many wrestlers can say they were a Big Ten Champ at Wisconsin.  Congrats to all the qualifiers as well.  That alone is also a great accomplishment similar to making it to state in high school.  It makes me laugh at all the criticism considering how hard it is to become a D1 wrestler let alone a qualifier.

On a side note, I am really excited to see what the new coaching staff for the football team can do.

I've often wondered why Spencer Lee went to Iowa instead of PSU? 

Bono is a used car salesman. Everything sounds great on the lot then you get home and car just doesn't run as planned. Problem is I am not sure its his fault with the resources he has. And its great to call for his job, but who is an upgrade? I will say this, I am souring quickly and this weekend sure didnt help.

Quote from: Crazyotto on March 06, 2023, 03:47:09 PMBono is a used car salesman. Everything sounds great on the lot then you get home and car just doesn't run as planned. Problem is I am not sure its his fault with the resources he has. And its great to call for his job, but who is an upgrade? I will say this, I am souring quickly and this weekend sure didnt help.

I am curious what it is about this weekend that made you feel worse. With the exception of Zargo who was plus 4 and Gomez who had injuries to both knees they basically wrestled to seed. Seven to the NCAA's with an 8th if he can wrestle. Two guys wrestled above seed to get an allocation (Lamont and Zargo). Zargo would not have gotten an at large and Lamont would have been on the bubble so that is good. If they wrestled exactly to seed they only get in 6 including Gomez with a possibility of an at large for Lamont.

Wrestler-Seed-Place

Barnett-4-5
Lamont-10-9
Zargo-11-7 (received medical forfeit in 7th place match)
Gomez-2-DNP (injuries to both knees)
Model-9-10 (Medically forfeited in 9th place match)
Hamiti-1-1
Otto-13-(9th to 14th)
Dow-10-11/12
Amos-8-7
Hilger-5-6 (Medically forfeited in 5th place match)

I get the point vsmf, and it's hard to argue with you.  However, watching on Saturday was very discouraging to me.
 Seeing a number of Minnesota guys overperform and win close matches made me ask myself "why doesn't that ever happen to us....?".  I'll admit that I'm a fan and sometimes fans can have higher expectations than they should.  I'll also admit that the Gomez thing was a punch in the balls.  I'll also admit that Sunday was better than Saturday.  And I'll also admit that it's hard not to be super excited about Hamiti - he looks so darn good and I'm guessing most people LOVE his attitude and style.  That being said, it would be so awesome in 2 weeks to see Hamiti make a strong run at a title and bring 3-4-5 guys along with him to the podium and maybe 2-3 of them beating a few higher seeds ("signature wins") along the way and a top 10 team finish. 

Quote from: PAUL on March 06, 2023, 04:58:41 PMI get the point vsmf, and it's hard to argue with you.  However, watching on Saturday was very discouraging to me.
 Seeing a number of Minnesota guys overperform and win close matches made me ask myself "why doesn't that ever happen to us....?".  I'll admit that I'm a fan and sometimes fans can have higher expectations than they should.  I'll also admit that the Gomez thing was a punch in the balls.  I'll also admit that Sunday was better than Saturday.  And I'll also admit that it's hard not to be super excited about Hamiti - he looks so darn good and I'm guessing most people LOVE his attitude and style.  That being said, it would be so awesome in 2 weeks to see Hamiti make a strong run at a title and bring 3-4-5 guys along with him to the podium and maybe 2-3 of them beating a few higher seeds ("signature wins") along the way and a top 10 team finish. 

Interesting that you mentioned Minnesota and they did have 2 6 seeds make the finals which is amazing. However they did not have a Big 10 champ, they qualified the same # as the Badgers (7) and Blockhus making the final is certainly partially result of Gomez being hurt. The results are really not significantly different than the Badgers as far as wrestling to seed and the Gomez injuries certainly impacted that.

Here is how they wrestled vs seed
Wrestler-seed-place
Mckee-5-6
Nagao-6-2
Bergeland-5-8
Blockhus-6-2
Lee-11-DNP (did not earn an allocation and not sure if he will get a wild card)
Sparks-9-9
O'Reilly-4-4
Salazar-3-4
Foy-9-8
Joles-11-10

Add to it that MN couldn't get Patrick Kennedy to stay at home. In fact not one of the D1 guys from his high school (Kasson/Mantorville) in recent history have gone to the gophers.
Sam Stoll, Brock Berge, and Kennedy all went to Iowa. Their head coach wrestled at Iowa, that's where his allegiance is and he's a known hater of the gophers(granted Brady Berge went to Penn St) 
Sounds a little familiar.

Quote from: Handles II on March 06, 2023, 06:29:35 PMAdd to it that MN couldn't get Patrick Kennedy to stay at home. In fact not one of the D1 guys from his high school (Kasson/Mantorville) in recent history have gone to the gophers.
Sam Stoll, Brock Berge, and Kennedy all went to Iowa. Their head coach wrestled at Iowa, that's where his allegiance is and he's a known hater of the gophers(granted Brady Berge went to Penn St) 
Sounds a little familiar.

I did not know that and thanks for sharing. That has got to sting for MN fans. They have a pretty strong distain for all things Iowa. 

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 06, 2023, 05:19:33 PM

Quote from: PAUL on March 06, 2023, 04:58:41 PMI get the point vsmf, and it's hard to argue with you.  However, watching on Saturday was very discouraging to me.
 Seeing a number of Minnesota guys overperform and win close matches made me ask myself "why doesn't that ever happen to us....?".  I'll admit that I'm a fan and sometimes fans can have higher expectations than they should.  I'll also admit that the Gomez thing was a punch in the balls.  I'll also admit that Sunday was better than Saturday.  And I'll also admit that it's hard not to be super excited about Hamiti - he looks so darn good and I'm guessing most people LOVE his attitude and style.  That being said, it would be so awesome in 2 weeks to see Hamiti make a strong run at a title and bring 3-4-5 guys along with him to the podium and maybe 2-3 of them beating a few higher seeds ("signature wins") along the way and a top 10 team finish. 

Interesting that you mentioned Minnesota and they did have 2 6 seeds make the finals which is amazing. However they did not have a Big 10 champ, they qualified the same # as the Badgers (7) and Blockhus making the final is certainly partially result of Gomez being hurt. The results are really not significantly different than the Badgers as far as wrestling to seed and the Gomez injuries certainly impacted that.

Here is how they wrestled vs seed
Wrestler-seed-place
Mckee-5-6
Nagao-6-2
Bergeland-5-8
Blockhus-6-2
Lee-11-DNP (did not earn an allocation and not sure if he will get a wild card)
Sparks-9-9
O'Reilly-8-8
Salazar-3-4
Foy-9-8
Joles-11-10

But Minnesota outplaced Wisconsin and while you bring up effect of Gomez injury, the Gophers didn't have benefit of Gable Stevenson who had a year of eligibility left and clearly Brayton Lee is wrestling hurt this year.  I don't think Wisconsin's program is yet on par with the Gophers, though maybe next year the Badgers close the gap, but thenafter Bono will have to recruit better to keep up with or surpass the Gophers.

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 06, 2023, 09:09:56 PM

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 06, 2023, 05:19:33 PM

Quote from: PAUL on March 06, 2023, 04:58:41 PMI get the point vsmf, and it's hard to argue with you.  However, watching on Saturday was very discouraging to me.
 Seeing a number of Minnesota guys overperform and win close matches made me ask myself "why doesn't that ever happen to us....?".  I'll admit that I'm a fan and sometimes fans can have higher expectations than they should.  I'll also admit that the Gomez thing was a punch in the balls.  I'll also admit that Sunday was better than Saturday.  And I'll also admit that it's hard not to be super excited about Hamiti - he looks so darn good and I'm guessing most people LOVE his attitude and style.  That being said, it would be so awesome in 2 weeks to see Hamiti make a strong run at a title and bring 3-4-5 guys along with him to the podium and maybe 2-3 of them beating a few higher seeds ("signature wins") along the way and a top 10 team finish. 

Interesting that you mentioned Minnesota and they did have 2 6 seeds make the finals which is amazing. However they did not have a Big 10 champ, they qualified the same # as the Badgers (7) and Blockhus making the final is certainly partially result of Gomez being hurt. The results are really not significantly different than the Badgers as far as wrestling to seed and the Gomez injuries certainly impacted that.

Here is how they wrestled vs seed
Wrestler-seed-place
Mckee-5-6
Nagao-6-2
Bergeland-5-8
Blockhus-6-2
Lee-11-DNP (did not earn an allocation and not sure if he will get a wild card)
Sparks-9-9
O'Reilly-8-8
Salazar-3-4
Foy-9-8
Joles-11-10

But Minnesota outplaced Wisconsin and while you bring up effect of Gomez injury, the Gophers didn't have benefit of Gable Stevenson who had a year of eligibility left and clearly Brayton Lee is wrestling hurt this year.  I don't think Wisconsin's program is yet on par with the Gophers, though maybe next year the Badgers close the gap, but thenafter Bono will have to recruit better to keep up with or surpass the Gophers.

Clearly Gable is the ultimate trump card. Not having the Olympic champ and slam dunk NCAA champ with a year of eligibly left is going to suck for sure.

Lee to Gomez is not much of a comparison. Lee has not been there really all year. He is 4-9 and was the 11 seed so there was not an expectation of him doing very well at the Big Tens or the NCAA's. Gomez was a 2 seed and the only person ever to beat a 3 timer.

The Gophers outplaced the Badgers at the Big Tens but unless you are in the hunt for the title I don't know that the coaches care. The goal is to get as many healthy bodies into the NCAA tournament as possible. As far the tournament it certainly is possible the Badgers out point the Gophers even without any points from Gomez.

My point was just responding to Paul who was discouraged by the Badgers and encouraged by how the Gophers wrestled and I was just showing with data that there really was not much difference. My question to you BadgerOne, is would you rather have the Gophers Big Ten Results or the Badgers and would you rather have the the Gopher qualifiers or the Badger Qualifiers going into the NCAA tournament?

Bailey O'Reilly was 4th seed and placed 4th for MN.

Gomez being out or hurt tips the scales towards Gophers IMO. Will be interesting to see how teams are seeded. Looking at mat scouts summary from last year you basically have to be top 12 seed to AA except for 4 exceptions. Hamiti looks like best bet for either team to AA.

I'd rather have Minn season dual record (12-3 vs. 8-8), Big Ten record (5-3 verus 1-7), Big Ten placing (6 vs.8), Cross border recruiting (7 WI kids on Minn. roster, vs. UW having ONE MN kid), Roster size (33 vs 27), Open tourney results (look them up), their RTC, and head to head victory this year.

Even if (big if) UW outscores Minn in a couple weeks, they literally are better then UW in every metric.  It sucks, but it is a fact.

And as for all this "but injuries"-PSU has Robbie Howard, Nebraska got 3rd and absolutely stomped UW with arguably their best wrestler red shirting the whole year (Ridge Lovett), Minn has Gable S, and I bet almost every team can say the same. 

Quote from: asdf on March 07, 2023, 05:46:03 AMI'd rather have Minn season dual record (12-3 vs. 8-8), Big Ten record (5-3 verus 1-7), Big Ten placing (6 vs.8), Cross border recruiting (7 WI kids on Minn. roster, vs. UW having ONE MN kid), Roster size (33 vs 27), Open tourney results (look them up), their RTC, and head to head victory this year.

Even if (big if) UW outscores Minn in a couple weeks, they literally are better then UW in every metric.  It sucks, but it is a fact.

And as for all this "but injuries"-PSU has Robbie Howard, Nebraska got 3rd and absolutely stomped UW with arguably their best wrestler red shirting the whole year (Ridge Lovett), Minn has Gable S, and I bet almost every team can say the same. 

MN had 12 guys qualify for the NCAA's, 9 of them wrestle outside of MN. WI had 5 kids qualify, 3 are from outside WI.

Quote from: Wis-Mallard on March 06, 2023, 10:26:32 PMBailey O'Reilly was 4th seed and placed 4th for MN.

Gomez being out or hurt tips the scales towards Gophers IMO. Will be interesting to see how teams are seeded. Looking at mat scouts summary from last year you basically have to be top 12 seed to AA except for 4 exceptions. Hamiti looks like best bet for either team to AA.

Typo on O'Reilly sorry.

Top 12 seeds should be

Barnett
Gomez
Hamiti
Hilger

McKee
Nagao
Blockhus (possibly)
O'Reilly
Salazar

Quote from: asdf on March 07, 2023, 05:46:03 AMI'd rather have Minn season dual record (12-3 vs. 8-8), Big Ten record (5-3 verus 1-7), Big Ten placing (6 vs.8), Cross border recruiting (7 WI kids on Minn. roster, vs. UW having ONE MN kid), Roster size (33 vs 27), Open tourney results (look them up), their RTC, and head to head victory this year.

Even if (big if) UW outscores Minn in a couple weeks, they literally are better then UW in every metric.  It sucks, but it is a fact.

And as for all this "but injuries"-PSU has Robbie Howard, Nebraska got 3rd and absolutely stomped UW with arguably their best wrestler red shirting the whole year (Ridge Lovett), Minn has Gable S, and I bet almost every team can say the same. 

Minnesota does not have Gable. He is not enrolled and moved on. Not even remotely the same as Lovett, Howard, or Gomez being hurt. NCAAs is what people will measure the season by not how many kids are on their roster, or how kid did at open tournaments, or a dual in January. Minnesota fans were talking about getting 0 AAs(which they still might) and firing their coach before Big Tens. Maybe ask them what they would rather have

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 07, 2023, 08:49:53 AM

Quote from: Wis-Mallard on March 06, 2023, 10:26:32 PMBailey O'Reilly was 4th seed and placed 4th for MN.

Gomez being out or hurt tips the scales towards Gophers IMO. Will be interesting to see how teams are seeded. Looking at mat scouts summary from last year you basically have to be top 12 seed to AA except for 4 exceptions. Hamiti looks like best bet for either team to AA.

Typo on O'Reilly sorry.

Top 12 seeds should be

Barnett
Gomez
Hamiti
Hilger

McKee
Nagao
Blockhus (possibly)
O'Reilly
Salazar

Why the "possibly" parenthetical after Blockhus?  Being a Big Ten finalist at 57 makes Blockhus a near lock to be top 12. Name 12 guys who are more likely to be seeded top 12.  I think there is more uncertainty if Gomez will even wrestle due to injury or not qualifying and I don't think he's any more a lock to get a top 12 seed than Blockhus given that he ended the season with three losses and must rely on getting an at-large bid, but no parenthetical follows his name.

I mean Rutgers finished in 11th place at Big 10's, and also qualified 7 guys.  What does getting a bunch of guys that will go 0-2 at the Ncaa's mean?  It's funny people on here trying to determine on what merits a successful season. You can use any result and twist it however you want. The fact is the Badgers as they currently sit are not much better than where they were sitting 5 years ago.  I could care less if the coach Is Bono or Davis.  Or someone else.  But just don't make excuses.  The same one's making excuses for Bono and are now the defenders for Bono are the ones that called for Davis's head.

Left last part out.

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 07, 2023, 10:38:48 AM

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 07, 2023, 08:49:53 AM

Quote from: Wis-Mallard on March 06, 2023, 10:26:32 PMBailey O'Reilly was 4th seed and placed 4th for MN.

Gomez being out or hurt tips the scales towards Gophers IMO. Will be interesting to see how teams are seeded. Looking at mat scouts summary from last year you basically have to be top 12 seed to AA except for 4 exceptions. Hamiti looks like best bet for either team to AA.

Typo on O'Reilly sorry.

Top 12 seeds should be

Barnett
Gomez
Hamiti
Hilger

McKee
Nagao
Blockhus (possibly)
O'Reilly
Salazar

Why the "possibly" parenthetical after Blockhus?  Being a Big Ten finalist at 57 makes Blockhus a near lock to be top 12. Name 12 guys who are more likely to be seeded top 12.  I think there is more uncertainty if Gomez will even wrestle due to injury or not qualifying and I don't think he's any more a lock to get a top 12 seed than Blockhus given that he ended the season with three losses and must rely on getting an at-large bid, but no parenthetical follows his name.

Wrestlestat has Blockhus at 13 amongst the auto qualifiers. Prior to the Big Tens he had a 16 coaches rank, 26 RPI, 4 quality matches this year with 1 quality win over Yahya and currently WS has him at 14. He certainly could be in the top 12 but the way I read it not a lock.

Gomez was #2 in the coaches rank, still #3 on WS, has 6 quality matches with 4 wins including the best win of the season for any wrestler.

Again, not judgement or opinion just looking at data. We will find out today if Gomez gets an at large and the seeding comes out tomorrow.

Quote from: The Legend on March 07, 2023, 11:09:50 AMI mean Rutgers finished in 11th place at Big 10's, and also qualified 7 guys.  What does getting a bunch of guys that will go 0-2 at the Ncaa's mean?  It's funny people on here trying to determine on what merits a successful season. You can use any result and twist it however you want. The fact is the Badgers as they currently sit are not much better than where they were sitting 5 years ago.  I could care less if the coach Is Bono or Davis.  Or someone else.  But just don't make excuses.  The same one's making excuses for Bono are now the defenders for Bono.

True story.

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 07, 2023, 11:29:00 AM

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 07, 2023, 10:38:48 AM

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 07, 2023, 08:49:53 AM

Quote from: Wis-Mallard on March 06, 2023, 10:26:32 PMBailey O'Reilly was 4th seed and placed 4th for MN.

Gomez being out or hurt tips the scales towards Gophers IMO. Will be interesting to see how teams are seeded. Looking at mat scouts summary from last year you basically have to be top 12 seed to AA except for 4 exceptions. Hamiti looks like best bet for either team to AA.

Typo on O'Reilly sorry.

Top 12 seeds should be

Barnett
Gomez
Hamiti
Hilger

McKee
Nagao
Blockhus (possibly)
O'Reilly
Salazar

Why the "possibly" parenthetical after Blockhus?  Being a Big Ten finalist at 57 makes Blockhus a near lock to be top 12. Name 12 guys who are more likely to be seeded top 12.  I think there is more uncertainty if Gomez will even wrestle due to injury or not qualifying and I don't think he's any more a lock to get a top 12 seed than Blockhus given that he ended the season with three losses and must rely on getting an at-large bid, but no parenthetical follows his name.

Wrestlestat has Blockhus at 13 amongst the auto qualifiers. Prior to the Big Tens he had a 16 coaches rank, 26 RPI, 4 quality matches this year with 1 quality win over Yahya and currently WS has him at 14. He certainly could be in the top 12 but the way I read it not a lock.

Gomez was #2 in the coaches rank, still #3 on WS, has 6 quality matches with 4 wins including the best win of the season for any wrestler.

Again, not judgement or opinion just looking at data. We will find out today if Gomez gets an at large and the seeding comes out tomorrow.

Wrestlestat is just a fan site so it has no bearings on seedings.  Finishing runnerup in the Big Ten isn't something Wrestlestat factors in, but I have no doubt the NCAA factors in tournament placement as an important criteria in the seedings.  Again, Gomez had a worthy second overall ranking until his last three matches which were all losses (fair or not) and I don't know if Wrestlestat penalizes Injury Default losses or DQs in their algorithm  plus Gomez's placement outside the top 9 will have some detrimental effect on his seeding which Wrestlestat doesn't measure.  Beating YaYa in the conference tournament who should easily be seeded in the top 12 also help Blockhus's seeding.  As you say, we should know shortly, but I'd be real surprised if Blockhus isn't seeded in the top 12.

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 06, 2023, 05:19:33 PM

Quote from: PAUL on March 06, 2023, 04:58:41 PMI get the point vsmf, and it's hard to argue with you.  However, watching on Saturday was very discouraging to me.
 Seeing a number of Minnesota guys overperform and win close matches made me ask myself "why doesn't that ever happen to us....?".  I'll admit that I'm a fan and sometimes fans can have higher expectations than they should.  I'll also admit that the Gomez thing was a punch in the balls.  I'll also admit that Sunday was better than Saturday.  And I'll also admit that it's hard not to be super excited about Hamiti - he looks so darn good and I'm guessing most people LOVE his attitude and style.  That being said, it would be so awesome in 2 weeks to see Hamiti make a strong run at a title and bring 3-4-5 guys along with him to the podium and maybe 2-3 of them beating a few higher seeds ("signature wins") along the way and a top 10 team finish. 

Interesting that you mentioned Minnesota and they did have 2 6 seeds make the finals which is amazing. However they did not have a Big 10 champ, they qualified the same # as the Badgers (7) and Blockhus making the final is certainly partially result of Gomez being hurt. The results are really not significantly different than the Badgers as far as wrestling to seed and the Gomez injuries certainly impacted that.

Here is how they wrestled vs seed
Wrestler-seed-place
Mckee-5-6
Nagao-6-2
Bergeland-5-8
Blockhus-6-2
Lee-11-DNP (did not earn an allocation and not sure if he will get a wild card)
Sparks-9-9
O'Reilly-4-4
Salazar-3-4
Foy-9-8
Joles-11-10

Gomez, Sparks and Joles all received at large bids so 9-8 Minnesota as far as qualifiers.

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 06, 2023, 04:17:51 PM

Quote from: Crazyotto on March 06, 2023, 03:47:09 PMBono is a used car salesman. Everything sounds great on the lot then you get home and car just doesn't run as planned. Problem is I am not sure its his fault with the resources he has. And its great to call for his job, but who is an upgrade? I will say this, I am souring quickly and this weekend sure didnt help.

I am curious what it is about this weekend that made you feel worse. With the exception of Zargo who was plus 4 and Gomez who had injuries to both knees they basically wrestled to seed. Seven to the NCAA's with an 8th if he can wrestle. Two guys wrestled above seed to get an allocation (Lamont and Zargo). Zargo would not have gotten an at large and Lamont would have been on the bubble so that is good. If they wrestled exactly to seed they only get in 6 including Gomez with a possibility of an at large for Lamont.

Wrestler-Seed-Place

Barnett-4-5
Lamont-10-9
Zargo-11-7 (received medical forfeit in 7th place match)
Gomez-2-DNP (injuries to both knees)
Model-9-10 (Medically forfeited in 9th place match)
Hamiti-1-1
Otto-13-(9th to 14th)
Dow-10-11/12
Amos-8-7
Hilger-5-6 (Medically forfeited in 5th place match)

You make a fair point, I guess I keep hoping these guys are going to be better ( I might be guilty of drinking the kook aid)..

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 07, 2023, 01:40:53 PM

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 07, 2023, 11:29:00 AM

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 07, 2023, 10:38:48 AM

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 07, 2023, 08:49:53 AM

Quote from: Wis-Mallard on March 06, 2023, 10:26:32 PMBailey O'Reilly was 4th seed and placed 4th for MN.

Gomez being out or hurt tips the scales towards Gophers IMO. Will be interesting to see how teams are seeded. Looking at mat scouts summary from last year you basically have to be top 12 seed to AA except for 4 exceptions. Hamiti looks like best bet for either team to AA.

Typo on O'Reilly sorry.

Top 12 seeds should be

Barnett
Gomez
Hamiti
Hilger

McKee
Nagao
Blockhus (possibly)
O'Reilly
Salazar

Why the "possibly" parenthetical after Blockhus?  Being a Big Ten finalist at 57 makes Blockhus a near lock to be top 12. Name 12 guys who are more likely to be seeded top 12.  I think there is more uncertainty if Gomez will even wrestle due to injury or not qualifying and I don't think he's any more a lock to get a top 12 seed than Blockhus given that he ended the season with three losses and must rely on getting an at-large bid, but no parenthetical follows his name.

Wrestlestat has Blockhus at 13 amongst the auto qualifiers. Prior to the Big Tens he had a 16 coaches rank, 26 RPI, 4 quality matches this year with 1 quality win over Yahya and currently WS has him at 14. He certainly could be in the top 12 but the way I read it not a lock.

Gomez was #2 in the coaches rank, still #3 on WS, has 6 quality matches with 4 wins including the best win of the season for any wrestler.

Again, not judgement or opinion just looking at data. We will find out today if Gomez gets an at large and the seeding comes out tomorrow.

Wrestlestat is just a fan site so it has no bearings on seedings.  Finishing runnerup in the Big Ten isn't something Wrestlestat factors in, but I have no doubt the NCAA factors in tournament placement as an important criteria in the seedings.  Again, Gomez had a worthy second overall ranking until his last three matches which were all losses (fair or not) and I don't know if Wrestlestat penalizes Injury Default losses or DQs in their algorithm  plus Gomez's placement outside the top 9 will have some detrimental effect on his seeding which Wrestlestat doesn't measure.  Beating YaYa in the conference tournament who should easily be seeded in the top 12 also help Blockhus's seeding.  As you say, we should know shortly, but I'd be real surprised if Blockhus isn't seeded in the top 12.

You nailed it! Gomez 15 seed and Blockhus 11 seed

So if the Badgers have one AA and finish in the low 20's what are you going to say? This is such a tough tournament and the Badger did themselves no favors

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 09, 2023, 05:35:36 PMSo if the Badgers have one AA and finish in the low 20's what are you going to say? This is such a tough tournament and the Badger did themselves no favors

Back to the same silly stuff on the forum. I like the point of the harm being done as recruits read this junk. You would think that in the UW section that there would be more positive view of the program and school. Maybe those of us that are Badger fan should go to the other forums (MN; MI; IL; Iowa...) and try to stir up junk.

Quote from: bigoil on March 09, 2023, 06:05:55 PM

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 09, 2023, 05:35:36 PMSo if the Badgers have one AA and finish in the low 20's what are you going to say? This is such a tough tournament and the Badger did themselves no favors

Back to the same silly stuff on the forum. I like the point of the harm being done as recruits read this junk. You would think that in the UW section that there would be more positive view of the program and school. Maybe those of us that are Badger fan should go to the other forums (MN; MI; IL; Iowa...) and try to stir up junk.

I am a Badger fan but after looking at the brackets things don't look good so it leaves me with questions, lots of them. Sorry to offend

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 09, 2023, 06:57:16 PM

Quote from: bigoil on March 09, 2023, 06:05:55 PM

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 09, 2023, 05:35:36 PMSo if the Badgers have one AA and finish in the low 20's what are you going to say? This is such a tough tournament and the Badger did themselves no favors

Back to the same silly stuff on the forum. I like the point of the harm being done as recruits read this junk. You would think that in the UW section that there would be more positive view of the program and school. Maybe those of us that are Badger fan should go to the other forums (MN; MI; IL; Iowa...) and try to stir up junk.

I am a Badger fan but after looking at the brackets things don't look good so it leaves me with questions, lots of them. Sorry to offend

"not done but in a few matches it will be. So what are your thoughts now on Bono and the Badgers?"

That doesn't sound like a fan of Bono?

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 09, 2023, 06:57:16 PM

Quote from: bigoil on March 09, 2023, 06:05:55 PM

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 09, 2023, 05:35:36 PMSo if the Badgers have one AA and finish in the low 20's what are you going to say? This is such a tough tournament and the Badger did themselves no favors

Back to the same silly stuff on the forum. I like the point of the harm being done as recruits read this junk. You would think that in the UW section that there would be more positive view of the program and school. Maybe those of us that are Badger fan should go to the other forums (MN; MI; IL; Iowa...) and try to stir up junk.

I am a Badger fan but after looking at the brackets things don't look good so it leaves me with questions, lots of them. Sorry to offend

Hillger will beat Slavikouski and be in the quarters along with Hamiti.

Quote from: bigoil on March 09, 2023, 06:05:55 PM

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 09, 2023, 05:35:36 PMSo if the Badgers have one AA and finish in the low 20's what are you going to say? This is such a tough tournament and the Badger did themselves no favors

Back to the same silly stuff on the forum. I like the point of the harm being done as recruits read this junk. You would think that in the UW section that there would be more positive view of the program and school. Maybe those of us that are Badger fan should go to the other forums (MN; MI; IL; Iowa...) and try to stir up junk.

Hopefully Koy Hopke doesn't have internet then

The MN forum is far worse, after every meet their Facebook page comments were brutal.

Quote from: bigoil on March 09, 2023, 06:05:55 PM

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 09, 2023, 05:35:36 PMSo if the Badgers have one AA and finish in the low 20's what are you going to say? This is such a tough tournament and the Badger did themselves no favors

Back to the same silly stuff on the forum. I like the point of the harm being done as recruits read this junk. You would think that in the UW section that there would be more positive view of the program and school. Maybe those of us that are Badger fan should go to the other forums (MN; MI; IL; Iowa...) and try to stir up junk.

You'd be getting all jazzed up if you spent anytime on the IA or MN forums.  This place is so mild compared to their expectations/insights on the forum.

If a recruit is not coming to UW because of a few keyboard warriors (most speaking factually) here, can't see how he'd last 4 years with a Big Ten schedule, visitors fan section, on and on.  My goodness go look at what UNI head coaches wife tweeted out about UW fans at the home dual.  Can't imagine what these athletes hear elsewhere.

Quote from: asdf on March 10, 2023, 10:59:00 AM

Quote from: bigoil on March 09, 2023, 06:05:55 PM

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 09, 2023, 05:35:36 PMSo if the Badgers have one AA and finish in the low 20's what are you going to say? This is such a tough tournament and the Badger did themselves no favors

Back to the same silly stuff on the forum. I like the point of the harm being done as recruits read this junk. You would think that in the UW section that there would be more positive view of the program and school. Maybe those of us that are Badger fan should go to the other forums (MN; MI; IL; Iowa...) and try to stir up junk.

You'd be getting all jazzed up if you spent anytime on the IA or MN forums.  This place is so mild compared to their expectations/insights on the forum.

If a recruit is not coming to UW because of a few keyboard warriors (most speaking factually) here, can't see how he'd last 4 years with a Big Ten schedule, visitors fan section, on and on.  My goodness go look at what UNI head coaches wife tweeted out about UW fans at the home dual.  Can't imagine what these athletes hear elsewhere.

What did Mrs. Schwab Say? Sorry, I  missed it.

Allyson likes to give it back. Luke Louison was sitting in my seats and I know he was riding Doug. All in good taste as I was in touch with her.

It wasn't even just the UW fans as much as the end of season and being a wife of a coach.

I think it is fair to say it is a push between Davis and Bono as they are basically getting the same results.  I think Bono has at least energized the fan base with improved marketing and publicity and dual crowds have been better.

I think everyone is fighting to be the #3 program in the country and lots of programs just have a guy.  Badgers could just hire another guy and I would expect similar results.

As I said before Bono was hired I do think it is worth taking a flyer and trying something different and unconventional to see if you can become that #3 program.  That guy is Askren.  No way Alvarez would hire him but maybe McIntosh would.  Not sure Askren would even accept.

I am not upset with Bono because I really don't know any other name that might be able to come in and be a high probability to do better.

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 17, 2023, 09:31:10 PMI think it is fair to say it is a push between Davis and Bono as they are basically getting the same results.  I think Bono has at least energized the fan base with improved marketing and publicity and dual crowds have been better.

I think everyone is fighting to be the #3 program in the country and lots of programs just have a guy.  Badgers could just hire another guy and I would expect similar results.

As I said before Bono was hired I do think it is worth taking a flyer and trying something different and unconventional to see if you can become that #3 program.  That guy is Askren.  No way Alvarez would hire him but maybe McIntosh would.  Not sure Askren would even accept.

I am not upset with Bono because I really don't know any other name that might be able to come in and be a high probability to do better.

How about that Cornell coach? Can we lure him away?

Quote from: leg turk on March 17, 2023, 09:42:09 PM

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 17, 2023, 09:31:10 PMI think it is fair to say it is a push between Davis and Bono as they are basically getting the same results.  I think Bono has at least energized the fan base with improved marketing and publicity and dual crowds have been better.

I think everyone is fighting to be the #3 program in the country and lots of programs just have a guy.  Badgers could just hire another guy and I would expect similar results.

As I said before Bono was hired I do think it is worth taking a flyer and trying something different and unconventional to see if you can become that #3 program.  That guy is Askren.  No way Alvarez would hire him but maybe McIntosh would.  Not sure Askren would even accept.

I am not upset with Bono because I really don't know any other name that might be able to come in and be a high probability to do better.

How about that Cornell coach? Can we lure him away?

Why go backwards??  Cornell is miles ahead of UW right now.

Quote from: novice wrestler on February 20, 2023, 09:23:37 AM

Quote from: asdf on February 18, 2023, 10:52:57 PMI agree it is a lateral move at best at this point from Barry to Bono.  I expected better results by now from Bono/Reader.  That it looks like UW is trending the same as 6 years ago, yet now the ability to use the transfer portal presents more as a regression IMO. Simply put Davis did the same as Bono is doing now without the advantage of being able to get 2-3 starters/year via the portal.

Being a Big Ten program, a great campus and yet running neck and neck in the rankings to mid-major SDSU where Bono/Reader left is unfortunate.




With a little better health, these comments would be mute.  The portal is now the way of life but also realize why some kids are in the portal. There is a multitude of reasons, the hard part is finding the right kids for your program. With NIL the really good kids in the portal are wanted to get paid!!!
Now the comment about ranking UW with mid major SDSU is a crazy comment, mean spirited.  SDSU would likely only be able to compete with a couple of the bottoms teams in the Big Ten.  In some polls they are unranked as a tournament team

Speaking of not aging well hows that "crazy comment" of ranking UW with Mid-major SDSU taste now?

Bono's replacement Hahn has one in the finals, current team score above UW, a brand new facility, and functioning RTC....this is getting done at SDSU....SDSU!

"As I said before Bono was hired I do think it is worth taking a flyer and trying something different and unconventional to see if you can become that #3 program.  That guy is Askren.  No way Alvarez would hire him but maybe McIntosh would.  Not sure Askren would even accept."

But he did accept...to run the RTC. He had his opportunity to make his mark and help with the UW program. And then he flushed it down the toilet. And McIntosh, although he wasn't AD at the time, was still the associate and saw it all happen. So now it's not a question anymore of whether Askren would accept. It's a question of whether UW would even have anything to do with him after what happened. And the answer more than likely is....no!

Quote from: wrestlemania on March 17, 2023, 10:35:49 PM"As I said before Bono was hired I do think it is worth taking a flyer and trying something different and unconventional to see if you can become that #3 program.  That guy is Askren.  No way Alvarez would hire him but maybe McIntosh would.  Not sure Askren would even accept."

But he did accept...to run the RTC. He had his opportunity to make his mark and help with the UW program. And then he flushed it down the toilet. And McIntosh, although he wasn't AD at the time, was still the associate and saw it all happen. So now it's not a question anymore of whether Askren would accept. It's a question of whether UW would even have anything to do with him after what happened. And the answer more than likely is....no!

For the people on this forum that defend Bono at every turn.  Does it even matter to you that the fall out between Bono and Askren was over Bono breaking the rules with the Covid guidelines by trying to use an AWA facility when the university had them limited?

Quote from: The Legend on March 17, 2023, 10:44:39 PM

Quote from: wrestlemania on March 17, 2023, 10:35:49 PM"As I said before Bono was hired I do think it is worth taking a flyer and trying something different and unconventional to see if you can become that #3 program.  That guy is Askren.  No way Alvarez would hire him but maybe McIntosh would.  Not sure Askren would even accept."

But he did accept...to run the RTC. He had his opportunity to make his mark and help with the UW program. And then he flushed it down the toilet. And McIntosh, although he wasn't AD at the time, was still the associate and saw it all happen. So now it's not a question anymore of whether Askren would accept. It's a question of whether UW would even have anything to do with him after what happened. And the answer more than likely is....no!

For the people on this forum that defend Bono at every turn.  Does it even matter to you that the fall out between Bono and Askren was over Bono breaking the rules with the Covid guidelines by trying to use an AWA facility when the university had them limited?

Quote from: The Legend on March 17, 2023, 10:44:39 PM

Quote from: wrestlemania on March 17, 2023, 10:35:49 PM"As I said before Bono was hired I do think it is worth taking a flyer and trying something different and unconventional to see if you can become that #3 program.  That guy is Askren.  No way Alvarez would hire him but maybe McIntosh would.  Not sure Askren would even accept."

But he did accept...to run the RTC. He had his opportunity to make his mark and help with the UW program. And then he flushed it down the toilet. And McIntosh, although he wasn't AD at the time, was still the associate and saw it all happen. So now it's not a question anymore of whether Askren would accept. It's a question of whether UW would even have anything to do with him after what happened. And the answer more than likely is....no!

For the people on this forum that defend Bono at every turn.  Does it even matter to you that the fall out between Bono and Askren was over Bono breaking the rules with the Covid guidelines by trying to use an AWA facility when the university had them limited?

Is that what Askren says happened or should we ask BuckyMatt to find out Bono's side of the story? I'd like to get various samples before making up my mind.

I would also ask that anyone defending Askren at least be a UW wrestling fan of good standing and just not an Askren fan boy.

I love this phrase: "defend Bono at every turn". I want the Bono critics to spell out exactly what he has done to hurt the program and how his removal as head coach would make things automatically so much better that we'll all be blinded by it. And I also want a plausible successor as well who will be so much better we'll have to build new trophy cases.

If your point is Bono came in raising expectations so much that he can't meet them, then I'm not going to argue. But it also makes my point: That no matter who the coach is or was, whatever UW can accomplish in D-I collegiate wrestling is going to be limited by a lot of factors any coach would have a difficult time dealing with: 1). funding, 2). compliance, 3). facilities, 4). academic standards and let's add since 2020 5). At the mercy of club coaches who don't like your program.

Quote from: The Legend on March 17, 2023, 10:44:39 PM

Quote from: wrestlemania on March 17, 2023, 10:35:49 PM"As I said before Bono was hired I do think it is worth taking a flyer and trying something different and unconventional to see if you can become that #3 program.  That guy is Askren.  No way Alvarez would hire him but maybe McIntosh would.  Not sure Askren would even accept."

But he did accept...to run the RTC. He had his opportunity to make his mark and help with the UW program. And then he flushed it down the toilet. And McIntosh, although he wasn't AD at the time, was still the associate and saw it all happen. So now it's not a question anymore of whether Askren would accept. It's a question of whether UW would even have anything to do with him after what happened. And the answer more than likely is....no!

For the people on this forum that defend Bono at every turn.  Does it even matter to you that the fall out between Bono and Askren was over Bono breaking the rules with the Covid guidelines by trying to use an AWA facility when the university had them limited?

Pretty sure it was the other way around. Askren wanted the AWA kids to come up and Wrestle at the RTC when UW was restricting the number of people who could be in certain places.

Also, just given everything Askren has said about Covid, how dismissive he was, this seems...real unlikely. Like you've got the story exactly backward.

AWA was not upset by any training during covid, I've spoke to Ben, that's not it. Was there a tie to the training that some of the dispute is over, yes but it had nothing to do with Covid restrictions.

These athletes have been training their entire life, we expect them to just sit on the couch?

Did some of the kids go to church in Dane county too, that was restricted as well.

They also wrestled in Rokfin events, that had to be hosted outside Dane County.

Stop your Biatching and enjoy some great wrestling today.

Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 18, 2023, 09:21:08 AM

Quote from: The Legend on March 17, 2023, 10:44:39 PM

Quote from: wrestlemania on March 17, 2023, 10:35:49 PM"As I said before Bono was hired I do think it is worth taking a flyer and trying something different and unconventional to see if you can become that #3 program.  That guy is Askren.  No way Alvarez would hire him but maybe McIntosh would.  Not sure Askren would even accept."

But he did accept...to run the RTC. He had his opportunity to make his mark and help with the UW program. And then he flushed it down the toilet. And McIntosh, although he wasn't AD at the time, was still the associate and saw it all happen. So now it's not a question anymore of whether Askren would accept. It's a question of whether UW would even have anything to do with him after what happened. And the answer more than likely is....no!

For the people on this forum that defend Bono at every turn.  Does it even matter to you that the fall out between Bono and Askren was over Bono breaking the rules with the Covid guidelines by trying to use an AWA facility when the university had them limited?

Pretty sure it was the other way around. Askren wanted the AWA kids to come up and Wrestle at the RTC when UW was restricting the number of people who could be in certain places.

Also, just given everything Askren has said about Covid, how dismissive he was, this seems...real unlikely. Like you've got the story exactly backward.

I agree 100%.  There is no way Askren was the guy following protocol while Bono was trying to side step it.  Anyone who knows Askren's personal beliefs understands he is a libertarian who had no use for any of the Covid protocols. 

Bono needs to do better.  This season has been a big dissapointment, and the performance of UW wrestlers in big matches has been pitiful.  Having said that, the Askren as HC talk is a joke.  No way anybody in the Athletic Department wants to deal with that ego.  Wrestling is a non-revenue generating sport where drama won't be tolerated.

So, you're saying that when an athlete and a RTC coach went to the AWA Facility with Covid there were no issues?  SURRRREE.  Maybe that's why Moran's and Bono's relationship is sterling.   No issues here keep moving keep moving.

On a side note.  I'm not on the train of hiring with Askren as the coach.   I think he should stay on doing the job he is currently doing well at.  But they definitely can find someone.  Pretty sure Hahn was up for this job at the same time Bono was. 

On the bright side, Bono did recruit Tanner Sloan to SDSU, who is now a national finalist and vaulted SDSU over Wisconsin in team standings last night. 
Bono can recruit quality.  Development may be a concern.

My greatest frustration with this season is we seem to lose way more close matches than we win.  This is across the line up and not only a few wrestlers.   I could be wrong, but it seems we give up more TD's late in matches then we score ourselves.  Whether it is technical or something else is for others to decide. 

Quote from: onwisconsin on March 18, 2023, 11:52:07 AMMy greatest frustration with this season is we seem to lose way more close matches than we win.  This is across the line up and not only a few wrestlers.   I could be wrong, but it seems we give up more TD's late in matches then we score ourselves.  Whether it is technical or something else is for others to decide. 

Agree, last year seemed like Badgers had late match wins. Not as much this year

Quote from: onwisconsin on March 18, 2023, 11:52:07 AMMy greatest frustration with this season is we seem to lose way more close matches than we win.  This is across the line up and not only a few wrestlers.   I could be wrong, but it seems we give up more TD's late in matches then we score ourselves.  Whether it is technical or something else is for others to decide. 

It sure seems like this to me as well.  We also, other than Hamiti and Gomez, seem very passive when we need to score.

I love Hamiti.  He is fun to watch with his loose, go for broke style, his long reach, quickness, ability to contort his body and his pinning arsenal.  However, he seems a bit tentative against the top wrestlers and I don't think he has ever reversed a loss yet in five tries.  Marinelli (2x), Amine (3x), Griffith (2x) and Monday (2x), I think have all beat him more than once and he has also lost to Carr and O'Toole.  So all his losses are to top guys and I don't recall any bad losses.  I was hoping he'd break through to top three but he took sixth again.  Hoping he can take a leap next year.

Maybe there is more to NCAA wrestling then "Hustle, Attitude, and Effort."

Go listen to Amine interview after beating Hamiti, Amine basically stated Mich coaches had a better match strategy.

Quote from: asdf on March 18, 2023, 01:08:11 PMMaybe there is more to NCAA wrestling then "Hustle, Attitude, and Effort."

Go listen to Amine interview after beating Hamiti, Amine basically stated Mich coaches had a better match strategy.

I think Hamiti needs to RS and then go up to 174. He has trouble against the bigger, more physical '65 pounders.
Other than Carr and Griffith, the others he lost to have pretty similar builds. They're just BIG '65 pounders.

Hamiti also doesn't have a go-to shot.

A RS year would be good for him. It'd be bad for the team, but Wisconsin should be looking at 2024-25 IMO. Gomez will be gone, but...just my opinion.

We should also point out that 165 is the most loaded weight class and he finished behind Carr(1,3,finals), O'Toole, 3, 1 finals, Monday who was in the finals, Amine who's been 7,4,4 and then Griffith who was undefeated in 2020, won it in   2021, runner up in a VERY close match in 2022 and finished 5th this year.

This may be as good of a weight when all is said and done that we've seen in a while.

Quote from: asdf on March 18, 2023, 01:08:11 PMMaybe there is more to NCAA wrestling then "Hustle, Attitude, and Effort."

Go listen to Amine interview after beating Hamiti, Amine basically stated Mich coaches had a better match strategy.

And that strategy was to do nothing and wait for one shot. It worked. Not sure it was all that strategic. That's the strategy of most high school coaches when they know they are overmatched.

Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 18, 2023, 01:20:47 PM

Quote from: asdf on March 18, 2023, 01:08:11 PMMaybe there is more to NCAA wrestling then "Hustle, Attitude, and Effort."

Go listen to Amine interview after beating Hamiti, Amine basically stated Mich coaches had a better match strategy.

I think Hamiti needs to RS and then go up to 174. He has trouble against the bigger, more physical '65 pounders.
Other than Carr and Griffith, the others he lost to have pretty similar builds. They're just BIG '65 pounders.

Hamiti also doesn't have a go-to shot.

A RS year would be good for him. It'd be bad for the team, but Wisconsin should be looking at 2024-25 IMO. Gomez will be gone, but...just my opinion.

We should also point out that 165 is the most loaded weight class and he finished behind Carr(1,3,finals), O'Toole, 3, 1 finals, Monday who was in the finals, Amine who's been 7,4,4 and then Griffith who was undefeated in 2020, won it in   2021, runner up in a VERY close match in 2022 and finished 5th this year.

This may be as good of a weight when all is said and done that we've seen in a while.

Going up when he has trouble with big 165 pounders doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Going up to 174 will put him in a different group of even bigger dudes.

Hamiti likes to heel pick, but I tend to agree that he doesn't have a go-to. He can overwhelm guys with angles when his hands are active, but it's more of a go behind than an actual shot.

He was in the best weight in the tournament, and wasn't embarrassed in any match. I'm nit picking above, but I think he can compete with the best at the weight. He needs that one takedown in a big match to turn the tables IMO.

Quote from: The Legend on March 18, 2023, 09:45:31 AMSo, you're saying that when an athlete and a RTC coach went to the AWA Facility with Covid there were no issues?  SURRRREE.  Maybe that's why Moran's and Bono's relationship is sterling.  No issues here keep moving keep moving.

Yeah, I know he trolled people for getting the vaccine and I believe he said he's never seen a Wrestler get Covid on Flo, but I don't watch close enough.

I did have it from a good source that the dispute was about AWA Wrestler's going up to the RTC, not the other way around...but isn't anyone getting sick of talking about this?

Quote from: Ghetto on March 18, 2023, 01:27:16 PM

Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 18, 2023, 01:20:47 PM

Quote from: asdf on March 18, 2023, 01:08:11 PMMaybe there is more to NCAA wrestling then "Hustle, Attitude, and Effort."

Go listen to Amine interview after beating Hamiti, Amine basically stated Mich coaches had a better match strategy.

I think Hamiti needs to RS and then go up to 174. He has trouble against the bigger, more physical '65 pounders.
Other than Carr and Griffith, the others he lost to have pretty similar builds. They're just BIG '65 pounders.

Hamiti also doesn't have a go-to shot.

A RS year would be good for him. It'd be bad for the team, but Wisconsin should be looking at 2024-25 IMO. Gomez will be gone, but...just my opinion.

We should also point out that 165 is the most loaded weight class and he finished behind Carr(1,3,finals), O'Toole, 3, 1 finals, Monday who was in the finals, Amine who's been 7,4,4 and then Griffith who was undefeated in 2020, won it in   2021, runner up in a VERY close match in 2022 and finished 5th this year.

This may be as good of a weight when all is said and done that we've seen in a while.

Going up when he has trouble with big 165 pounders doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Going up to 174 will put him in a different group of even bigger dudes.

Hamiti likes to heel pick, but I tend to agree that he doesn't have a go-to. He can overwhelm guys with angles when his hands are active, but it's more of a go behind than an actual shot.

He was in the best weight in the tournament, and wasn't embarrassed in any match. I'm nit picking above, but I think he can compete with the best at the weight. He needs that one takedown in a big match to turn the tables IMO.

Well...that's simple, you get stronger. Take that RS year, build your body up. It gives him a full year to lift, add weight, muscle and grow into '74.

Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 18, 2023, 01:38:25 PM

Quote from: Ghetto on March 18, 2023, 01:27:16 PM

Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 18, 2023, 01:20:47 PM

Quote from: asdf on March 18, 2023, 01:08:11 PMMaybe there is more to NCAA wrestling then "Hustle, Attitude, and Effort."

Go listen to Amine interview after beating Hamiti, Amine basically stated Mich coaches had a better match strategy.

I think Hamiti needs to RS and then go up to 174. He has trouble against the bigger, more physical '65 pounders.
Other than Carr and Griffith, the others he lost to have pretty similar builds. They're just BIG '65 pounders.

Hamiti also doesn't have a go-to shot.

A RS year would be good for him. It'd be bad for the team, but Wisconsin should be looking at 2024-25 IMO. Gomez will be gone, but...just my opinion.

We should also point out that 165 is the most loaded weight class and he finished behind Carr(1,3,finals), O'Toole, 3, 1 finals, Monday who was in the finals, Amine who's been 7,4,4 and then Griffith who was undefeated in 2020, won it in   2021, runner up in a VERY close match in 2022 and finished 5th this year.

This may be as good of a weight when all is said and done that we've seen in a while.

Going up when he has trouble with big 165 pounders doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Going up to 174 will put him in a different group of even bigger dudes.

Hamiti likes to heel pick, but I tend to agree that he doesn't have a go-to. He can overwhelm guys with angles when his hands are active, but it's more of a go behind than an actual shot.

He was in the best weight in the tournament, and wasn't embarrassed in any match. I'm nit picking above, but I think he can compete with the best at the weight. He needs that one takedown in a big match to turn the tables IMO.

Well...that's simple, you get stronger. Take that RS year, build your body up. It gives him a full year to lift, add weight, muscle and grow into '74.

Well your source is full of ----.  It is very factual two Badger's, an RTC coach and an Athlete went to the AWA facility all while having Covid.  Spin it how you like with guess work.  That is where the fall out began.

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 18, 2023, 01:04:01 PMI love Hamiti.  He is fun to watch with his loose, go for broke style, his long reach, quickness, ability to contort his body and his pinning arsenal.  However, he seems a bit tentative against the top wrestlers and I don't think he has ever reversed a loss yet in five tries.  Marinelli (2x), Amine (3x), Griffith (2x) and Monday (2x), I think have all beat him more than once and he has also lost to Carr and O'Toole.  So all his losses are to top guys and I don't recall any bad losses.  I was hoping he'd break through to top three but he took sixth again.  Hoping he can take a leap next year.

Completely agree.  Would love 10 Hamiti types throughout the line up.

I give Bono a slight break on his success due to the fact that many of the wrestlers on the teams the last few years are still Barry's recruits. Sure it is his job to make them better and I definitely see improvement in the ones left over that are graduating this year. Next year he will have all of his guys, if you can bring in a few guys between 157 and 184 we should do alright. 125, 133, 141, 149, 165, 174, and 197 should all be a bit better than this year, we will lose some at HWT. 

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 18, 2023, 01:04:01 PMI love Hamiti.  He is fun to watch with his loose, go for broke style, his long reach, quickness, ability to contort his body and his pinning arsenal.  However, he seems a bit tentative against the top wrestlers and I don't think he has ever reversed a loss yet in five tries.  Marinelli (2x), Amine (3x), Griffith (2x) and Monday (2x), I think have all beat him more than once and he has also lost to Carr and O'Toole.  So all his losses are to top guys and I don't recall any bad losses.  I was hoping he'd break through to top three but he took sixth again.  Hoping he can take a leap next year.

It is strange how he looks different against certain top guys but I think there is progress through out the season and even today. Last year at the Big Tens he beat Kharchla in SV and this year he destroyed him.

Even though he was 0-2 today I think there was significant progress in both of those matches. He made a mistake against Quincy and got his arm trapped for that tilt but he was able to take him down which he did not do at the Midlands and that seemed to me how he needs to wrestle to beat those guys. I thought he was the better wrestler for most of that match. The more exchanges he creates the better.

He really was not in the match against Griffith last year and he was right there today. He was really close on first takedown that wasn't but he wrestled the style I think he needs to wrestle. A few technical mistakes and he got caught on the switch because Griffith did a nice job of splitting the legs and elevating but I like his movement.

I think if he wrestles that way he will beat Amine next time. Amine is able to really slow him down which is not good for him.

If you are down and want to feel a little better about things check out the Iowa forum. Iowa NCAA champ Jay Borschel is saying it is time to "Rebrand". Not a happy group over there.

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/fire-brands.415242/

https://twitter.com/jayborschel/status/1636790647750553601?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1636790647750553601%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 18, 2023, 04:24:11 PM

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 18, 2023, 01:04:01 PMI love Hamiti.  He is fun to watch with his loose, go for broke style, his long reach, quickness, ability to contort his body and his pinning arsenal.  However, he seems a bit tentative against the top wrestlers and I don't think he has ever reversed a loss yet in five tries.  Marinelli (2x), Amine (3x), Griffith (2x) and Monday (2x), I think have all beat him more than once and he has also lost to Carr and O'Toole.  So all his losses are to top guys and I don't recall any bad losses.  I was hoping he'd break through to top three but he took sixth again.  Hoping he can take a leap next year.

It is strange how he looks different against certain top guys but I think there is progress through out the season and even today. Last year at the Big Tens he beat Kharchla in SV and this year he destroyed him.

Even though he was 0-2 today I think there was significant progress in both of those matches. He made a mistake against Quincy and got his arm trapped for that tilt but he was able to take him down which he did not do at the Midlands and that seemed to me how he needs to wrestle to beat those guys. I thought he was the better wrestler for most of that match. The more exchanges he creates the better.

He really was not in the match against Griffith last year and he was right there today. He was really close on first takedown that wasn't but he wrestled the style I think he needs to wrestle. A few technical mistakes and he got caught on the switch because Griffith did a nice job of splitting the legs and elevating but I like his movement.

I think if he wrestles that way he will beat Amine next time. Amine is able to really slow him down which is not good for him.

How was that not a TD? Heck TW even put up 2 on the dashboard, ref waves himself off?

Quote from: wrestling for fun on March 18, 2023, 10:17:24 AMOn the bright side, Bono did recruit Tanner Sloan to SDSU, who is now a national finalist and vaulted SDSU over Wisconsin in team standings last night. 
Bono can recruit quality.  Development may be a concern.

You are 100% spot on. My kid wrestled for bono and reader. They are very good at recruiting. They can sell snow to an Eskimo, but that is where it ends.

Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 18, 2023, 04:27:37 PMIf you are down and want to feel a little better about things check out the Iowa forum. Iowa NCAA champ Jay Borschel is saying it is time to "Rebrand". Not a happy group over there.

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/fire-brands.415242/

https://twitter.com/jayborschel/status/1636790647750553601?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1636790647750553601%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

I want to personally thank you for putting this here. Made my day better.

Quote from: mkm13 on February 15, 2023, 09:00:23 PMOtoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

Your punishment for this comment is best of 10 takedowns vs Keegan for $100 per takedown then picking your kid up from your club practice with AWA shirt on

I predicted O'Toole would win it.

Super smart. Attacked rather than sat back and let Carr take it to him. He's a generational talent. Why anyone would scramble with him is completely beyond me.

I know these are totally different size guys, but I'd love to see him and Gross wrestle in the practice room. It would be next level stuff.

Here something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Quote from: Hawkisms on March 18, 2023, 05:33:34 PM

Quote from: wrestling for fun on March 18, 2023, 10:17:24 AMOn the bright side, Bono did recruit Tanner Sloan to SDSU, who is now a national finalist and vaulted SDSU over Wisconsin in team standings last night. 
Bono can recruit quality.  Development may be a concern.

You are 100% spot on. My kid wrestled for bono and reader. They are very good at recruiting. They can sell snow to an Eskimo, but that is where it ends.

After watching the NCAA Finals and listening to the champions talks, it became clear that the mentality and drive of the student athlete is as important or more important than the role of the coach.  Uber talented wrestlers like Alirez from UNC (and O'Toole for that matter) will be highly highly successful no matter what school they were at.  They likely just need some fine tuning of their skills and a competitive disciplined culture, their God given ability can do the rest

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 21, 2023, 01:28:34 PM

Quote from: Hawkisms on March 18, 2023, 05:33:34 PM

Quote from: wrestling for fun on March 18, 2023, 10:17:24 AMOn the bright side, Bono did recruit Tanner Sloan to SDSU, who is now a national finalist and vaulted SDSU over Wisconsin in team standings last night. 
Bono can recruit quality.  Development may be a concern.

You are 100% spot on. My kid wrestled for bono and reader. They are very good at recruiting. They can sell snow to an Eskimo, but that is where it ends.

After watching the NCAA Finals and listening to the champions talks, it became clear that the mentality and drive of the student athlete is as important or more important than the role of the coach.  Uber talented wrestlers like Alirez from UNC (and O'Toole for that matter) will be highly highly successful no matter what school they were at.  They likely just need some fine tuning of their skills and a competitive disciplined culture, their God given ability can do the rest

I just cannot buy into this theory but this is just my opinion

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 21, 2023, 01:28:34 PM

Quote from: Hawkisms on March 18, 2023, 05:33:34 PM

Quote from: wrestling for fun on March 18, 2023, 10:17:24 AMOn the bright side, Bono did recruit Tanner Sloan to SDSU, who is now a national finalist and vaulted SDSU over Wisconsin in team standings last night. 
Bono can recruit quality.  Development may be a concern.

You are 100% spot on. My kid wrestled for bono and reader. They are very good at recruiting. They can sell snow to an Eskimo, but that is where it ends.

After watching the NCAA Finals and listening to the champions talks, it became clear that the mentality and drive of the student athlete is as important or more important than the role of the coach.  Uber talented wrestlers like Alirez from UNC (and O'Toole for that matter) will be highly highly successful no matter what school they were at.  They likely just need some fine tuning of their skills and a competitive disciplined culture, their God given ability can do the rest

This is an interesting statement. I am not saying I agree or disagree. But I would say you mentioned a competitive disciplined culture. I say that is the coach that the rest of the statement kind of downplays.

Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

I don't really see a correlation. Is there any indication that Hamiti or Amos are unhappy at UW?

I though they left, in part(large part) due to Donnie leaving. I don't see Reader being shown the door anytime soon.

I would think Reader has to be taking calls to get his own gig and if he is not Bono is not doing his job developing him as a coach.

Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.

Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 21, 2023, 05:59:58 PMI would think Reader has to be taking calls to get his own gig and if he is not Bono is not doing his job developing him as a coach.

I'm not sure Reader wants a head coaching job.  I think he prefers being Bono's top assistant.  Some guys just don't want to take on all the duties and responsibilities of head coach.

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 12:41:46 AM

Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.

It probably goes deeper than that.  Aren't their scholarships limited to like 9.9 and planned out into the years to come?   Some guy may have to pay their own way if they redshirt?

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 07:49:34 AM

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 12:41:46 AM

Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.

It probably goes deeper than that.  Aren't their scholarships limited to like 9.9 and planned out into the years to come?   Some guy may have to pay their own way if they redshirt?

There are rules in place governing that and so the scholarship is paid every year.

Quote from: scrambledeggs on March 18, 2023, 04:07:53 PMI give Bono a slight break on his success due to the fact that many of the wrestlers on the teams the last few years are still Barry's recruits. Sure it is his job to make them better and I definitely see improvement in the ones left over that are graduating this year. Next year he will have all of his guys, if you can bring in a few guys between 157 and 184 we should do alright. 125, 133, 141, 149, 165, 174, and 197 should all be a bit better than this year, we will lose some at HWT. 

5 years at a program seems like a long enough time to add your own recruits and develop young guys on the roster in my honestabe opinion, but looking at the roster he has been utilizing the recruits that were brought in by the former regime or using the portal to fill spots. Saying "once he gets all the older guys out of the program and his own guys in then it will be different, you're talking about half of the line up this year that are not "his recruits". Guys Like Mark Gray at Cornell, or Damian Hahn are doing just fine with the former regime's "guys" Just seems like with the evidence at hand I don't see any big change in the level the Badgers will compete at amongst the rest of the field which isn't ideal.

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 08:14:03 AM

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 07:49:34 AM

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 12:41:46 AM

Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.

It probably goes deeper than that.  Aren't their scholarships limited to like 9.9 and planned out into the years to come?   Some guy may have to pay their own way if they redshirt?

There are rules in place governing that and so the scholarship is paid every year.

Ok, but if they commit a scholarship to a kid for 4 years and he then decided he wants to redshirt or take an Olympic year then where does the money come from for that 5th year?

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 01:16:48 PM

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 08:14:03 AM

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 07:49:34 AM

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 12:41:46 AM

Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.

It probably goes deeper than that.  Aren't their scholarships limited to like 9.9 and planned out into the years to come?   Some guy may have to pay their own way if they redshirt?

There are rules in place governing that and so the scholarship is paid every year.

Ok, but if they commit a scholarship to a kid for 4 years and he then decided he wants to redshirt or take an Olympic year then where does the money come from for that 5th year?

Well, I don't think the commitment is for "4 years" per se, but can be longer if it takes longer to graduate.   It is my understanding that the redshirt year counts toward the 9.9, but I think the Olympic year might not be charged to the 9.9 (though I'm not 100% on this).

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 01:16:48 PM

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 08:14:03 AM

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 07:49:34 AM

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 12:41:46 AM

Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.

It probably goes deeper than that.  Aren't their scholarships limited to like 9.9 and planned out into the years to come?   Some guy may have to pay their own way if they redshirt?

There are rules in place governing that and so the scholarship is paid every year.

Ok, but if they commit a scholarship to a kid for 4 years and he then decided he wants to redshirt or take an Olympic year then where does the money come from for that 5th year?

My guess is it would effect the amount of money they would provide for that year.  Wrestling scholerships are rarely a full ride.  In other words the program is given a total dollar amount that makes up 9.9 scholerships.  The program usually divides that money amongst many wrestlers with partial scholerships.  Only a few absolute studs get full rides.  So, if takes a grey shirt year, my guess is his 5th year could see the amount of money he receives adjusted.

Quote from: 1Iota on March 22, 2023, 04:00:09 PM

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 01:16:48 PM

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 08:14:03 AM

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 07:49:34 AM

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 12:41:46 AM

Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.

It probably goes deeper than that.  Aren't their scholarships limited to like 9.9 and planned out into the years to come?  Some guy may have to pay their own way if they redshirt?

There are rules in place governing that and so the scholarship is paid every year.

Ok, but if they commit a scholarship to a kid for 4 years and he then decided he wants to redshirt or take an Olympic year then where does the money come from for that 5th year?

My guess is it would effect the amount of money they would provide for that year.  Wrestling scholerships are rarely a full ride.  In other words the program is given a total dollar amount that makes up 9.9 scholerships.  The program usually divides that money amongst many wrestlers with partial scholerships.  Only a few absolute studs get full rides.  So, if takes a grey shirt year, my guess is his 5th year could see the amount of money he receives adjusted.

Depends on the school, but I think the top schools give out quite a few full rides as they need to do so in order to get top talent and fill their roster with walk-ons and minimal scholarships.  I wouldn't be surprised if some gave out 5 or more full rides.

It has been mentioned before but the scholarship rules really reward programs with instate recruits because their tuition is less.

Attending UW with in-state tuition (MN kids get in-state tuition through reciprocity rule) costs about $25,000

Attending UW from out of state costs $50,000

If Jimmy from Cheese City, WI gets a .50 scholarship he has to pay $12,500 on his own
If Bobby from Fibbers, IL gets a .50 scholarship he still has to pay $25,000

Thus to lure out of state athletes you have to offer more scholarship equivalencies and you only get 9.9

Or said in another way if Jimmy from WI goes to Missouri and gets a .50 scholarship he is basically paying the same amount as if he was attending UW with no scholarship.

What is not included in these are the ways around the NCAA limitations?
1) Academic scholarships- If you are smart they can find you unlimited academic scholarships.  Just like admission requirement every school can treat these differently
2) The new elephant in the room-  NIL Money.  Anything goes now.  If the local rich guy loves wrestling and wants to donate $50,000 each year well you don't have to even use a scholarship on that guy because the rich guy can just pay his college expenses for him in return for a couple hours of work.  I have to imagine Penn St and Iowa lead the country in NIL money.

Quote from: honestabe on March 22, 2023, 08:41:36 AM[quote author=scrambledeggs link=msg=675837 date=1679173673


5 years at a program seems like a long enough time to add your own recruits and develop young guys on the roster in my honestabe opinion, but looking at the roster he has been utilizing the recruits that were brought in by the former regime or using the portal to fill spots. Saying "once he gets all the older guys out of the program and his own guys in then it will be different, you're talking about half of the line up this year that are not "his recruits". Guys Like Mark Gray at Cornell, or Damian Hahn are doing just fine with the former regime's "guys" Just seems like with the evidence at hand I don't see any big change in the level the Badgers will compete at amongst the rest of the field which isn't ideal.

Best post on here in a long time.  None of the Kool-Aid drinkers will even acknowledge it.

Isn't Hahn doing it with Bono's guys?

Mark Grey was doing most of the work in the Cornell room. Yianni even said he wasn't sure what Rob Koll did at Cornell (other than win, I guess)

Quote from: Ghetto on March 22, 2023, 11:04:32 PMIsn't Hahn doing it with Bono's guys?

Mark Grey was doing most of the work in the Cornell room. Yianni even said he wasn't sure what Rob Koll did at Cornell (other than win, I guess)

-No.  Read somewhere that after Bono left, Hahn was left with a room around 17 kids.

-Checked SDSU roster then and now.  SDSU does not have a single wrestler on the roster this year that was on Bono's roster his last year there (16'-17').  Assume you are implying National runner-up T. Sloan is a Bono guy.  His first year at SDSU (did a redshirt) was a full year after Bono left. Either way, here is Sloan's progress year to year.

-18-19'-Redshirt.
-19-20'--21-6, COVID yr, no tourney
-20-21'--6th at Big12, NCAA qualifer went 3-2
-21-22'--2nd at Big12, NCAA qualifier, went 1-2, made world team.
-this year-2nd place NCAA

-If you want to hang you hat that Bono "got him in the room" a full year after he left, keep up with the Kool-aid. Either way, Bono had absolutely no influence on his progress and development the past few years (or any of them the past 5 years).  If that is the case, give me one Badger that has shown a 5 year progression like Sloan's.

-For the "out of state scholly...only 9.9 scholly" crowd.  I noted that 25% of SDSU team is from South Dakota this year.  Heavy MN and IA influence.  One would hope Reader would bring in IA recruits, Mn via Gross connection (Apple Valley), so why is Bono unable to get kids in from neighboring MN and IA? 

-Again-SDSU beat us at NCAA's this year, but not with "Bono's guys"

Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2023, 10:43:43 PM

Quote from: honestabe on March 22, 2023, 08:41:36 AM[quote author=scrambledeggs link=msg=675837 date=1679173673


5 years at a program seems like a long enough time to add your own recruits and develop young guys on the roster in my honestabe opinion, but looking at the roster he has been utilizing the recruits that were brought in by the former regime or using the portal to fill spots. Saying "once he gets all the older guys out of the program and his own guys in then it will be different, you're talking about half of the line up this year that are not "his recruits". Guys Like Mark Gray at Cornell, or Damian Hahn are doing just fine with the former regime's "guys" Just seems like with the evidence at hand I don't see any big change in the level the Badgers will compete at amongst the rest of the field which isn't ideal.

Best post on here in a long time.  None of the Kool-Aid drinkers will even acknowledge it.


[/quote
Generally speaking when you are in a chat forum like this you hopefully have a desire to support the University and a program, you call it Kool-aid drinking.  To each his own. If you always like to think and look negatively at things then you go ahead and drink the pond water.  Kool-aid is a little better tasting for me. We all have a choice. 

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 23, 2023, 09:24:18 AM

Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2023, 10:43:43 PM

Quote from: honestabe on March 22, 2023, 08:41:36 AM[quote author=scrambledeggs link=msg=675837 date=1679173673


5 years at a program seems like a long enough time to add your own recruits and develop young guys on the roster in my honestabe opinion, but looking at the roster he has been utilizing the recruits that were brought in by the former regime or using the portal to fill spots. Saying "once he gets all the older guys out of the program and his own guys in then it will be different, you're talking about half of the line up this year that are not "his recruits". Guys Like Mark Gray at Cornell, or Damian Hahn are doing just fine with the former regime's "guys" Just seems like with the evidence at hand I don't see any big change in the level the Badgers will compete at amongst the rest of the field which isn't ideal.

Best post on here in a long time.  None of the Kool-Aid drinkers will even acknowledge it.


[/quote
Generally speaking when you are in a chat forum like this you hopefully have a desire to support the University and a program, you call it Kool-aid drinking.  To each his own. If you always like to think and look negatively at things then you go ahead and drink the pond water.  Kool-aid is a little better tasting for me. We all have a choice. 

+1

[/quote
Generally speaking when you are in a chat forum like this you hopefully have a desire to support the University and a program, you call it Kool-aid drinking.  To each his own. If you always like to think and look negatively at things then you go ahead and drink the pond water.  Kool-aid is a little better tasting for me. We all have a choice.

Support can come in many ways....constructive criticism can be considered a positive or a negative.  Just depends on your perspective.

I think Bono is a good coach and I think Barry Davis was a good coach. However as Wrestlemania pointed out several pages ago, Wisconsin is very lacking in its wrestling facilities. Google wrestling facilities at Minnesota and Missouri and compare them to the old wrestling practice room at Camp Randall that has pillars in it. My local high school has a much better practice and training facility than the Badgers.
Russ Hellickson had as deep of Wisconsin roots as any Badger coach and he left Wisconsin to go to a better coaching situation at Ohio State. If I was a top notch high school wrestler and saw the Badger wrestling facilities, I would question the school's commitment to wrestling.
Recruiting advantages Wisconsin has are being a Big Ten school and strong academics. But other Big Ten schools are just as strong academically and have better facilities. Until facilities are improved, UW wrestling coaches will be recruiting with one hand tied behind their backs.
A potential positive is new football coach Luke Fickell, who is a strong wrestling backer. There is talk of building a new football practice facility on the site of the Camp Randall shell. The wrestling community should be encouraging to include a new wrestling practice room in that facility or else include it in a remodeling of the McClain Center.

Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2023, 10:43:43 PM

Quote from: honestabe on March 22, 2023, 08:41:36 AM[quote author=scrambledeggs link=msg=675837 date=1679173673


5 years at a program seems like a long enough time to add your own recruits and develop young guys on the roster in my honestabe opinion, but looking at the roster he has been utilizing the recruits that were brought in by the former regime or using the portal to fill spots. Saying "once he gets all the older guys out of the program and his own guys in then it will be different, you're talking about half of the line up this year that are not "his recruits". Guys Like Mark Gray at Cornell, or Damian Hahn are doing just fine with the former regime's "guys" Just seems like with the evidence at hand I don't see any big change in the level the Badgers will compete at amongst the rest of the field which isn't ideal.

Best post on here in a long time.  None of the Kool-Aid drinkers will even acknowledge it.

Kool Aid Drinkers!!  Gotta love name callers! 

Barnett, Lamont, Zargo, Gomez, Hamiti, Otto, Amos were Bono recruits.

Model, Dow and Hilger were Davis recruits but in fairness, both Garrett and Trent decided to stick around for their 6th year on campus, 5th year competing.  If they didn't like Bono and company, if they didn't feel that they were getting developed, if they didn't love the environment and team, why not 1) grad transfer 2) move on with their lives and start their careers. 

As far as Bono using the Portal, EVERYTEAM is using it: Penn State had three starters 2021/2022 (Dean and Hildebrant, Kerk), Iowa consistently has multiple starters from the portal (Lugo, Desanto, Eirman, Woods). Find me a team that doesn't have transfers on it?  Wisconsin had 3 total transfers this year (Meicher, Gomez, Lamont); most other schools had more, including Missouri with 5. It's (fortunately or unfortunately) the way of the sport right now but to imply Bono uses it more or less than others is disingenuous.

Quote from: BuckyMatt on March 24, 2023, 10:03:03 AM

Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2023, 10:43:43 PM

Quote from: honestabe on March 22, 2023, 08:41:36 AM[quote author=scrambledeggs link=msg=675837 date=1679173673


5 years at a program seems like a long enough time to add your own recruits and develop young guys on the roster in my honestabe opinion, but looking at the roster he has been utilizing the recruits that were brought in by the former regime or using the portal to fill spots. Saying "once he gets all the older guys out of the program and his own guys in then it will be different, you're talking about half of the line up this year that are not "his recruits". Guys Like Mark Gray at Cornell, or Damian Hahn are doing just fine with the former regime's "guys" Just seems like with the evidence at hand I don't see any big change in the level the Badgers will compete at amongst the rest of the field which isn't ideal.

Best post on here in a long time.  None of the Kool-Aid drinkers will even acknowledge it.

Kool Aid Drinkers!!  Gotta love name callers! 

Barnett, Lamont, Zargo, Gomez, Hamiti, Otto, Amos were Bono recruits.

Model, Dow and Hilger were Davis recruits but in fairness, both Garrett and Trent decided to stick around for their 6th year on campus, 5th year competing.  If they didn't like Bono and company, if they didn't feel that they were getting developed, if they didn't love the environment and team, why not 1) grad transfer 2) move on with their lives and start their careers.  Both obviously love and appreciate Bono and staff.

As far as Bono using the Portal, EVERYTEAM is using it: Penn State had three starters 2021/2022 (Dean and Hildebrant, Kerk), Iowa consistently has multiple starters from the portal (Lugo, Desanto, Eirman, Woods). Find me a team that doesn't have transfers on it?  Wisconsin had 3 total transfers this year (Meicher, Gomez, Lamont); most other schools had more, including Missouri with 5. It's (fortunately or unfortunately) the way of the sport right now but to imply Bono uses it more or less than others is disingenuous.

+1
I completely understand constructive criticism and there is a place for it, but when there is an obvious agenda it becomes silly. I was excited when this regime came in and it appeared headed in a positive trajectory and then COVID hit and it halted the momentum. I'm not ready to give up on this regime but I'm not drinking kool-aid either. I am an outside observer who sees more excitement in the field house and more excitement around this team. I also notice some concerns, but some of these "constructive criticisms " are disingenuous. The whole transfer stuff is ridiculous!

Quote from: Grapl on March 24, 2023, 08:56:55 AM[/quote
Generally speaking when you are in a chat forum like this you hopefully have a desire to support the University and a program, you call it Kool-aid drinking.  To each his own. If you always like to think and look negatively at things then you go ahead and drink the pond water.  Kool-aid is a little better tasting for me. We all have a choice.

Support can come in many ways....constructive criticism can be considered a positive or a negative.  Just depends on your perspective.

I will concede that constructive criticism can be considered positive but only if it followed up with some type of solution/idea to solve what they think the problem is. You dont see much if any of that, so with nothing to offer kinda think your comments are just hateful in nature

novice wrestler, unfortunately you dont make the rules of a chat forum.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - if you dont like it move on.  This program is in no better shape than it was under Davis.  Bono is a good used car salesman and that is all. 

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 24, 2023, 01:35:23 PMnovice wrestler, unfortunately you dont make the rules of a chat forum.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - if you dont like it move on.  This program is in no better shape than it was under Davis.  Bono is a good used car salesman and that is all. 

You sure defended wrestlers during the Davis era, my post above was your exact words from that time frame.

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 24, 2023, 01:35:23 PMnovice wrestler, unfortunately you dont make the rules of a chat forum.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - if you dont like it move on.  This program is in no better shape than it was under Davis.  Bono is a good used car salesman and that is all. 

The program is in better shape. Attendance, excitement, and the atmostphere at dual meets is sky high compared to BD era, social media presence increased, UW coaches are going to HS meets and hosting camps, and just had 2 world team members in Amos and Gross. What has gotten worse??? I want the results to get better and am not satisfied, but to say it is in no better shape is just plain stupid.

Quote from: wrastle63 on March 24, 2023, 02:01:05 PM

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 24, 2023, 01:35:23 PMnovice wrestler, unfortunately you dont make the rules of a chat forum.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - if you dont like it move on.  This program is in no better shape than it was under Davis.  Bono is a good used car salesman and that is all. 

The program is in better shape. Attendance, excitement, and the atmostphere at dual meets is sky high compared to BD era, social media presence increased, UW coaches are going to HS meets and hosting camps, and just had 2 world team members in Amos and Gross. What has gotten worse??? I want the results to get better and am not satisfied, but to say it is in no better shape is just plain stupid.

100%. I have been to pretty much every dual in the last 10 to 15 years and this season has been by far and away the the most exciting and enjoyable at the field house. I do not even remember how many of the home duals they won this year because that is not what this is all about.

They also have the most exciting lineup I can remember. Lots of guys who just flat out wrestle and wrestle for all 7 minutes or more. Gomez and DJ are definitely 2 of the most exciting wrestlers in the country if not the 2 most exciting. On the NCAA tourney broadcast every time Austin was up the PA announcer would comment that you hear the oohs and ahhs it means Austin Gomez is on the mat. Joey Zargo wrestles with a pace that is amazing regardless of the score. This is good stuff!

With all due respect to Andrew Howe. He was really good and an NCAA champ but that was tough to watch at times and is not going to bring any new fans to the sport. I will take the guys we have right now regardless of the results.

Quote from: Pilot on March 24, 2023, 09:24:21 AMI think Bono is a good coach and I think Barry Davis was a good coach. However as Wrestlemania pointed out several pages ago, Wisconsin is very lacking in its wrestling facilities. Google wrestling facilities at Minnesota and Missouri and compare them to the old wrestling practice room at Camp Randall that has pillars in it. My local high school has a much better practice and training facility than the Badgers.

Russ Hellickson had as deep of Wisconsin roots as any Badger coach and he left Wisconsin to go to a better coaching situation at Ohio State. If I was a top notch high school wrestler and saw the Badger wrestling facilities, I would question the school's commitment to wrestling.

Recruiting advantages Wisconsin has are being a Big Ten school and strong academics. But other Big Ten schools are just as strong academically and have better facilities. Until facilities are improved, UW wrestling coaches will be recruiting with one hand tied behind their backs.

A potential positive is new football coach Luke Fickell, who is a strong wrestling backer. There is talk of building a new football practice facility on the site of the Camp Randall shell. The wrestling community should be encouraging to include a new wrestling practice room in that facility or else include it in a remodeling of the McClain Center.

Smartest post in this thread so far. If Bono does nothing else, fixing the wrestling room situation is absolute must during his tenure and hopefully he'll get that opportunity in a remodeled McClain Center because what they go through now is just ridiculous and should have been fixed a long time ago. Heck, I would have set up mats in the Shell myself or go to one of the Madison high schools to practice if that what I was forced to use as wrestling room and then dare UWAD to fire me for it.

So Bono is "used car salesman" eh? For people to complain that Davis never promoted or "sold" the program I find it a little rich that when a coach comes on board who actually does what we want as far as promotions go and now find it a negative. Interesting. All I'll say to the wrestle03 and asdf and other designated Bono bashers, when he does leave, so will you from these boards. There were any number of posters who basically posted nothing but bad stuff about Davis like JaguarWrestler and Lizard King and others and when Davis stepped down, suddenly, they disappeared. Can't bash a coach who not around anymore, can you? What fun is that?

Since we're all being constructive here, let me offer my take: As far as the little things go around program such as promotion, social media and public outreach, UW is far better off now than in 2018. As far as results go, about the same, but at least they're no worse. One negative however, is the deteriorating relationship between Bono and certain club coaches in the state since he became head coach. This will affect recruiting no question and Bono is going to have to overcome this no question. But if you think simply replacing him is going to fix the situation think again. No D-I coach worth their salt will take the UW job if he's required to kiss butt. That will not happen. You may find a coach they are not hostile towards but that's the best you'll probably get until they retire. It may well be that Bono decides it's not worth his trouble if he has to continue to deal with this problem or he may just say screw em' and just keep on keeping on. It will be interesting to see how he plays it. 

But the bottom line is, I'm willing to care less about results if Bono can simply fix the things he does have the opportunity to fix: 1). Better facilities, 2). Sustainable fundraising and support and 3). A working RTC that can draw wrestlers to train and help UW wrestlers without the UWAD getting anal about it. If he can do these things, the results can take care of themselves or be the foundation for another coach to take to greater heights. Bono's the fourth head coach since Kleven and he has the opportunity to do for the program what the other three couldn't because one bolted, one cheated and the other just kept his mouth shut, shrugged his shoulders and didn't make waves so he could stay for 25 years. What kind of coach will Bono be when it's all said and done? That's the question...