Badgers Excited to Battle at Big Tens | Kirk Nelson
https://www.wiwrestling.com/badgers-excited-to-battle-at-big-tens-kirk-nelson/
opening line by Bono made me laugh. I have never run into a wrestler this late in the season that is healthy
After a short laugh, great article. Hopefully there are some great wins this weekend. Go get them Badgers!
How many of the Badger wrestlers are hanging out with the volleyball ladies? Hope none but I thought I heard a couple of them are dating!
https://uwbadgers.com/news/2021/2/25/wisconsin-volleyball-pauses-team-activities.aspx
Kyle Burwick is seeded 9th because 3rd seed Sammy Alvarez dropped out...
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 05, 2021, 05:06:20 PM
opening line by Bono made me laugh. I have never run into a wrestler this late in the season that is healthy
As little as they have wrestled this year they better be healthy!!
Barnett beats Howard 3-2
Rundell beats Burwick 3-2
Barnett has Heinselmann next round
Bruwik has a bye and then will face the loser of Sjoemeling and DeSanto
Barnett has tough draw now with Mckee getting upset! Needs to win this next one.
Storr defeats Scharenbrock 9-2
Yeah, very important for Barnett to get the W next round. Burwick will likely face the #10 seed. If he wins that he places top 8.
Dentino loses by fall to Rivera
Thanks for the updates, as I am unable to watch live this first round.
Quote from: Napoleon Dynamite on March 06, 2021, 09:34:40 AM
Huge for Burwick that Decatur appears not to be a go today since he forfeited first round
Decatur did not make weight..
Cleary defeats Model 9 - 6
Smith defeats Otto 8-4.
Otto wrestled Smith really tough. If Otto can get a little better top/bottom he could be dangerous.
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 06, 2021, 10:21:34 AM
Otto wrestled Smith really tough. If Otto can get a little better top/bottom he could be dangerous.
How many takedowns did Otto get this year? He needs to get a lot better on his feet as well.
"The Brawling Badger" Jared Krattiger defeats Jake Allar 3-2
Kratty will face Michael Kemerer of Iowa in the quarterfinals.
Chris Weiler will face Max Lyon in the quarterfinals.
Quote from: mkm13 on March 06, 2021, 10:27:23 AM
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 06, 2021, 10:21:34 AM
Otto wrestled Smith really tough. If Otto can get a little better top/bottom he could be dangerous.
How many takedowns did Otto get this year? He needs to get a lot better on his feet as well.
He took down Ethan Smith multiple times and was in on multiple good shots.
Andrew Salemme lost by fall to Jacob Warner...
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 06, 2021, 11:00:04 AM
Quote from: mkm13 on March 06, 2021, 10:27:23 AM
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 06, 2021, 10:21:34 AM
Otto wrestled Smith really tough. If Otto can get a little better top/bottom he could be dangerous.
How many takedowns did Otto get this year? He needs to get a lot better on his feet as well.
He took down Ethan Smith multiple times and was in on multiple good shots.
How many takedowns did he get this year?
Trent Hillger defeats Christian Colucci 2-1
Heinselman defeats Barnett 3-2
As rough as things have gone for Bucky so far, it should not be that surprising; if Bucky is going to make any noise it will come through the consolations. That said, it is not going to be easy. I see Barnett will have McKee in the first consolation match - that's a toss up match IMO and if it goes south for Barnett it might very well mean he doesn't even get to the NCAA. Hoping for the best.
Kemerer wins by fall over Krattiger
the way upsets for other teams/guys have gone the Badgers are in for a rough, already rough so rougher road. We need a couple upset (beat a higher seed). so far none and 1 upset against them.
Great finish! 9-4 win by CW
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 12:31:29 PM
Great finish! 9-4 win by CW
2 - takedown, 2 - near fall and earns the riding point all in the last 10 seconds to break the 4-4 tie for the win!
Cassioppi defeats Hillger 9 - 1
Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on March 06, 2021, 12:52:36 PM
Cassioppi defeats Hillger 9 - 1
Not ideal. It wasnt close. Not sure what happened to Hillger. Hope he can get back to where he was next year.
Joe Lee defeats Josh Otto 4 - 3
Marcos Polanco defeats Dom Dentino 7 - 4
Drew Scharenbrock defeats Christian Kanzler 10 - 3
Joles defeated Salemme by fall
Quote from: mkm13 on March 06, 2021, 12:57:44 PM
Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on March 06, 2021, 12:52:36 PM
Cassioppi defeats Hillger 9 - 1
Not ideal. It wasnt close. Not sure what happened to Hillger. Hope he can get back to where he was next year.
Agree.
Next round matchups:
Round of 12
125 Barnett vs McKee (MIN)
133 Burwick vs Sjomeling (NEB)
149 Scharenbrock vs Parriott (PUR)
157 Model vs Saldate (MSU)
174 Krattiger vs Hughes (MSU)
285 Hillger vs Streck (IND)
Semi-final
184 Weiler vs Venz (NEB)
6:30 for the next round?
First round 3 wins; one bye; six losses
Second round
front: 1 win; 2 losses
back: 1 win; 2 byes; three out
Next round I hope we get 5 wins, feel good about four of them, Hopefully EB can best McKee again.
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 01:38:14 PM
6:30 for the next round?
First round 3 wins; one bye; six losses
Second round
front: 1 win; 2 losses
back: 1 win; 2 byes; three out
Next round I hope we get 5 wins, feel good about four of them, Hopefully EB can best McKee again.
6:30 is what the schedule says now...
2021 Big Ten Championships
Team Standings
Score # Pig QF SF Consi Max
Iowa 75.5 10 3 10 8 2 234.5
Nebraska 63 10 7 9 7 3 227
Michigan 49 10 8 7 5 5 222
Penn State 45 10 7 7 4 6 222
Minnesota 35 10 8 6 3 7 217
Ohio State 33 10 9 8 3 7 215.5
Michigan State 25 10 10 5 2 8 193
Northwestern 24 10 9 4 2 8 172
Purdue 23.5 10 10 8 2 8 212
Rutgers 21 9 9 4 2 7 152
Illinois 17.5 10 9 4 1 9 190
Wisconsin 11.5 10 9 4 1 9 144.5
Indiana 5 10 10 3 10 125.5
Maryland 2 10 10 1 10 122.5
https://www.pennstatewrestlingclub.org/content/tournament_team_score.php?id=24&type=team
Are you happy, okay, bummed out or upset with the team so far?
I have to say they are right where I thought they would be and just wishing for a little more.
I am just happy that we have live wrestling going on. I did not have high expectations this season. It is interesting how other programs seem to be wrestling at full strength and treated this season like any other while the Badgers seem to have let COVID get in the way of the rebuilding process. I hope this is just a one year thing and it doesn't set them back.
It's ugly.
As I said to my buddies, I wish there was just one match where UW isn't suppose to win and they pull the upset. Even some of the toss-ups, they never really seem to go UW's way. Hoping they do tonight!
Let's go Barnett!
Quote from: crossface21 on March 06, 2021, 05:12:02 PM
As I said to my buddies, I wish there was just one match where UW isn't suppose to win and they pull the upset. Even some of the toss-ups, they never really seem to go UW's way. Hoping they do tonight!
+1 !
What just happened?
I personally thought the badgers had ok draws or was I out to lunch on that thought?
I hope npope is right and the badgers make noise in the consi!
wow, that turned bad quickly!
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 06:45:12 PM
wow, that turned bad quickly!
I was just typing "that didn't age well" on your other post. Darn!
That one is going to sting for a while.
Does he make NCAAs with that loss?
Get an at-large?
I know we have Amos and Wick sitting out, but the young talent on this team needs A LOT of work. The last few years of Barry's recruiting classes are producing nothing (can hillger return to form?) And none of Bono's recruits appear ready to do anything at NCAA's.
It is looking likely that Amos and Hamiti will be studs, but for any substantial turn around some of these other guys really need to step up.
Great match by Burwick!
Currently in 12th place outta 14? Even Barry's worst year wasn't that bad. Time to think about a change or just keep drinking the kool aid?
Quote from: jw52 on March 06, 2021, 07:28:12 PM
Currently in 12th place outta 14? Even Barry's worst year wasn't that bad. Time to think about a change or just keep drinking the kool aid?
::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: mkm13 on March 06, 2021, 07:03:33 PM
I know we have Amos and Wick sitting out, but the young talent on this team needs A LOT of work. The last few years of Barry's recruiting classes are producing nothing (can hillger return to form?) And none of Bono's recruits appear ready to do anything at NCAA's.
It is looking likely that Amos and Hamiti will be studs, but for any substantial turn around some of these other guys really need to step up.
well said and my thoughts too. Bono needs to get more high recruits and wrestlers in the room and not wait until next year.
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 07:36:30 PM
Quote from: mkm13 on March 06, 2021, 07:03:33 PM
I know we have Amos and Wick sitting out, but the young talent on this team needs A LOT of work. The last few years of Barry's recruiting classes are producing nothing (can hillger return to form?) And none of Bono's recruits appear ready to do anything at NCAA's.
It is looking likely that Amos and Hamiti will be studs, but for any substantial turn around some of these other guys really need to step up.
well said and my thoughts too. Bono needs to get more high recruits and wrestlers in the room and not wait until next year.
Like the #1 overall recruit in 2020? Or the #7 overall recruit in 2021? Or the # 1 Heavyweight in the country? Yeah, Bono needs to recruit better ::) ::)
Quote from: jw52 on March 06, 2021, 07:28:12 PM
Currently in 12th place outta 14? Even Barry's worst year wasn't that bad. Time to think about a change or just keep drinking the kool aid?
In 2012 they finished dead last with 9 points. There were also some pretty lean years in the early 2000's where they were taking 9th out of 11 teams. Bono is in his 3rd year. It hasn't been a train wreck like it was at the end of Davis' tenure. We knew this year wasn't gonna be great. Do we wish it was a little better? Of course, but lets see how it plays out with the top recruits coming in next year.
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on March 06, 2021, 07:42:41 PM
Scharenbrock getting dominated.
I missed the beginning but it was 6-4 going in to the 3rd and he rode him for 2 minutes
Quote from: BuckyMatt on March 06, 2021, 07:47:12 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 07:36:30 PM
Quote from: mkm13 on March 06, 2021, 07:03:33 PM
I know we have Amos and Wick sitting out, but the young talent on this team needs A LOT of work. The last few years of Barry's recruiting classes are producing nothing (can hillger return to form?) And none of Bono's recruits appear ready to do anything at NCAA's.
It is looking likely that Amos and Hamiti will be studs, but for any substantial turn around some of these other guys really need to step up.
well said and my thoughts too. Bono needs to get more high recruits and wrestlers in the room and not wait until next year.
Like the #1 overall recruit in 2020? Or the #7 overall recruit in 2021? Or the # 1 Heavyweight in the country? Yeah, Bono needs to recruit better ::) ::)
I guess I am not see it!
Yet!?!
So are you telling me there are true freshman and redshirt freshman on the team this year that are going to make a IMPACT? I see NONE this year and a let's wait and see next year (I do have high hopes on TWO for next year assuming they are Badgers next year)
Chase Saldate defeats Garrett Model 8 - 3
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 07:55:13 PM
Quote from: BuckyMatt on March 06, 2021, 07:47:12 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 07:36:30 PM
Quote from: mkm13 on March 06, 2021, 07:03:33 PM
I know we have Amos and Wick sitting out, but the young talent on this team needs A LOT of work. The last few years of Barry's recruiting classes are producing nothing (can hillger return to form?) And none of Bono's recruits appear ready to do anything at NCAA's.
It is looking likely that Amos and Hamiti will be studs, but for any substantial turn around some of these other guys really need to step up.
well said and my thoughts too. Bono needs to get more high recruits and wrestlers in the room and not wait until next year.
Like the #1 overall recruit in 2020? Or the #7 overall recruit in 2021? Or the # 1 Heavyweight in the country? Yeah, Bono needs to recruit better ::) ::)
I guess I am not see it!
Yet!?!
So are you telling me there are true freshman and redshirt freshman on the team this year that are going to make a IMPACT? I see NONE this year and a let's wait and see next year (I do have high hopes on TWO for next year assuming they are Badgers next year)
You don't see it??? That's probably because you don't subscribe to Rokfin and didn't SEE Amos destroy 3X All American/1x Finalist TJ Dudley.
Besides complaining on a random anonymous forum, what have YOU done to help the program??
Look, I have stayed quiet for over a year for the most part on this program. I was all about Bono coming here bringing new energy. I loved Barry Davis but it was time. Some of you apologist need to stop. You were the same guys jumping the apologists for Davis. This is how I see it.
Bono can recruit (It's a good a thing because he doesn't teach technique!)
Guys on this team have gone backwards and yes Evan Wick has too. You saw his decent last year. Being out of the room a lot this year he has started to progress again.
You have a Cross Country minded coach as a head coach of your wrestling team! That is tremendous early in the season when you can steal a few wins here and there and maybe a couple dual meets to build fan base and create that excitement.
The issue with that excitement is now people have expectations and when all the teams are now in shape at the end of the year you can't win those same matches.
If it were not for the 1 or 2 year transfers from other programs where would this team be?
Eye test tells me 2 or 3 of the other guys that did not wrestle big tens should have. Is he building for the future? Teaching wrestling would be a great start!
More then I should at this point!
Did Amos have a W on? Not yet.
10 weights and to compete in the Big Ten you have to do better then one star recruit. I am interested in two guys coming in and if they can compete in the Big Ten but we have to wait on that to see
ouch!
Quote from: The Legend on March 06, 2021, 08:11:15 PM
Look, I have stayed quiet for over a year for the most part on this program. I was all about Bono coming here bringing new energy. I loved Barry Davis but it was time. Some of you apologist need to stop. You were the same guys jumping the apologists for Davis. This is how I see it.
Bono can recruit (It's a good a thing because he doesn't teach technique!)
Guys on this team have gone backwards and yes Evan Wick has too. You saw his decent last year. Being out of the room a lot this year he has started to progress again.
You have a Cross Country minded coach as a head coach of your wrestling team! That is tremendous early in the season when you can steal a few wins here and there and maybe a couple dual meets to build fan base and create that excitement.
The issue with that excitement is now people have expectations and when all the teams are now in shape at the end of the year you can't win those same matches.
If it were not for the 1 or 2 year transfers from other programs where would this team be?
Eye test tells me 2 or 3 of the other guys that did not wrestle big tens should have. Is he building for the future? Teaching wrestling would be a great start!
Very insightful and interesting post.
Does UW have any victory over a higher seed? Not one upset in a tournament of a lot of upsets?
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 08:17:44 PM
More then I should at this point!
Did Amos have a W on? Not yet.
10 weights and to compete in the Big Ten you have to do better then one star recruit. I am interested in two guys coming in and if they can compete in the Big Ten but we have to wait on that to see
Good points.
I want to be fair to Bono & he needs to be given a chance to coach his recruits as upperclassmen, but this is hard to watch. Do we have one guy who has wrestled above his seed?
Quote from: Harris on March 06, 2021, 08:20:41 PM
Quote from: The Legend on March 06, 2021, 08:11:15 PM
Look, I have stayed quiet for over a year for the most part on this program. I was all about Bono coming here bringing new energy. I loved Barry Davis but it was time. Some of you apologist need to stop. You were the same guys jumping the apologists for Davis. This is how I see it.
Bono can recruit (It's a good a thing because he doesn't teach technique!)
Guys on this team have gone backwards and yes Evan Wick has too. You saw his decent last year. Being out of the room a lot this year he has started to progress again.
You have a Cross Country minded coach as a head coach of your wrestling team! That is tremendous early in the season when you can steal a few wins here and there and maybe a couple dual meets to build fan base and create that excitement.
The issue with that excitement is now people have expectations and when all the teams are now in shape at the end of the year you can't win those same matches.
If it were not for the 1 or 2 year transfers from other programs where would this team be?
Eye test tells me 2 or 3 of the other guys that did not wrestle big tens should have. Is he building for the future? Teaching wrestling would be a great start!
Very insightful and interesting post.
Great points and totally agree. It seems the team continues to peak week 1. I had high hopes for Bono but he is not passing the eye test. When you pay a new coach more than double the the previous one, of course expectations will and should be high. Wrestlers are improving but after watching today, the other big ten wrestlers are improving at a greater level. Wrestlers continue to lose to guys they beat earlier in the season.
Parris with a :58 pin; impressive!
UW messed up when they didn't recruit Askren and again when they overlooked him for Bono. Recruiting the #1 guy is great, but that one guy is good for 6 points at a dual. You guys happy losing duals 27-6 as long as we have one good guy?
I will say Barry's last few recruiting classes made Bono's work harder. On top of that, Bono i believe recruited well and won recruiting battles, but many appear to be misses. How many scholarships are tied up with Christensen, Dow, krattiger, Burwick, and Barnett? Other than potentially Barnett, can anyone see anyone of them get more than a few points at NCAAs? They are just so far away from being a big point scorer.
The good news is Amos and Hamiti will likely be studs.
Really thought Kratty would get that one, ouch!
So Davis recruited Wick, Hilger Model, Krattiger
Dentino, Scharenbrock, Salemme. If we go with other guys who started at Big Tens.
Are you trying to give credit to Bono for Wick and Hilger?
Please don't make excuses by blaming past coaches. You take on job it's your job to build a better team. Why does this team continually have 25 or less kids on the team?
Other points stop going so hard for so long and maybe just maybe your team won't be broke at the end of the year when it matters! Don't even get me started on injuries.
Excited for what? That was a butt whooping, ouch...
10 weight classes
14 teams
We will have at best 2 wrestlers finish in the top 8
Next year could be the beginning of big things, but right now this program is a joke
Quote from: The Legend on March 06, 2021, 08:53:26 PM
So Davis recruited Wick, Hilger Model, Krattiger
Dentino, Scharenbrock, Salemme. If we go with other guys who started at Big Tens.
Are you trying to give credit to Bono for Wick and Hilger?
Please don't make excuses by blaming past coaches. You take on job it's your job to build a better team. Why does this team continually have 25 or less kids on the team?
Other points stop going so hard for so long and maybe just maybe your team won't be broke at the end of the year when it matters! Don't even get me started on injuries.
Are you responding to me? If so, no i am not giving Bono credit. Wick is not wrestling and Hillger is wrestling like an average at best big 10 wrestler this year who might get 1 or 2 points at NCAAs.
Bottom line is the talent in the room right now is sooooo far away from being able to compete at a high level.
Quote from: The Legend on March 06, 2021, 08:53:26 PM
So Davis recruited Wick, Hilger Model, Krattiger
Dentino, Scharenbrock, Salemme. If we go with other guys who started at Big Tens.
Are you trying to give credit to Bono for Wick and Hilger?
Please don't make excuses by blaming past coaches. You take on job it's your job to build a better team. Why does this team continually have 25 or less kids on the team?
Other points stop going so hard for so long and maybe just maybe your team won't be broke at the end of the year when it matters! Don't even get me started on injuries.
+1!
Nebraska appears to have 34 guys in their room this season, just saying to Legend's -25
IND is now just a .5 point behind the Badgers, At least we have Maryland's 2 points covered
Why does this team continually have 25 or less on the team?
That's a good question.
Anyone ever had a job and coworkers that you love and a boss that you hate?
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on March 06, 2021, 09:08:27 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 09:04:26 PM
IND is now just a .5 point behind the Badgers, At least we have Maryland's 2 points covered
Next year!!!!!!! Hamiti is a top recruit and will likely win it all. ::) Come on, everyone. That's crazy talk. Barnett was a top recruit in the country as well. Don't put these kids on a pedestal. Hilger seems like he'd rather be somewhere else for certain. Facts.
I remember when guys on here would've bet their house on Mark Hall winning 4
Someone tell me why having 35 guys in the room is better than 25? Is that really an excuse? Seems to me that the best teams just keep rolling out the same 10-15 studs each year.
Are you saying we need more practice wrestlers? Do you think the depth of wrestlers from 25-35 makes a huge difference?
Trent's looking good here, now finish!
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on March 06, 2021, 09:08:27 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 09:04:26 PM
IND is now just a .5 point behind the Badgers, At least we have Maryland's 2 points covered
Next year!!!!!!! Hamiti is a top recruit and will likely win it all. ::) Come on, everyone. That's crazy talk. Barnett was a top recruit in the country as well. Don't put these kids on a pedestal. Hilger seems like he'd rather be somewhere else for certain. Facts.
Who said Hamiti will likely win it all? I think he has a chance to AA a few times, but more than that who knows.
Barnett and Hamiti are not the same level of recruit.
Trent Hillger beats Rudy Streck 11-2
Huge win for Burwick
Burwick!!
Burwick with the big come from behind win 4-3 over Boo Dryden!!
Kyle Burwick with the win. Great job!
LOL - we were all so happy just to have something positive to post!
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 09:30:47 PM
Huge win for Burwick
And first over a seed higher then Badger seed
Quote from: Harris on March 06, 2021, 09:32:28 PM
LOL - we were all so happy just to have something positive to post!
Right!
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 09:30:47 PM
Huge win for Burwick
And first over a seed higher then Badger seed
not only a higher seed, but a much taller one as well! ;D
Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on March 06, 2021, 09:34:54 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 09:32:36 PM
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 06, 2021, 09:30:47 PM
Huge win for Burwick
And first over a seed higher then Badger seed
not only a higher seed, but a much taller one as well! ;D
That was horrible even with the smiley face....
Progress! Now lets catch Illinois!
After Hillger wrestles Kerkvliet, I believe the 9th place brackets will begin for Barnett, Dentino, Model, Otto, and Krattiger yet tonight...
Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on March 06, 2021, 09:49:19 PM
After Hillger wrestles Kerkvliet, I believe the 9th place brackets will begin for Barnett, Dentino, Model, Otto, and Krattiger yet tonight...
Why did they start so late if they had this much wrestling tonight??? These guys are gonna be wrestling after 11pm!
Bigger question is why is BTN showing this mornings matches taped rather than live wrestling?
Probably to put the semis in prime time. They could have started the round of 12 earlier... I agree it is getting late..
Let's Go Trent!
Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on March 06, 2021, 09:59:06 PM
Probably to put the semis in prime time. They could have started the round of 12 earlier... I agree it is getting late..
I suppose there's a trade-off for the PR. But then they need to adjust the schedule and have these last matches wrestled in the morning. This is a bit ridiculous. I mean, I think it's great for me as I sit at home as it gives me something to watch, but it's really gotta suck for the wrestlers. This is a long flipping day.
Hillger will wrestle Luffman for 7th Place tomorrow..
So Burwick catches a break with Decatur not making weight but makes the most of it. The one and only bright spot in a long day! Good for him at least.
Why are they wrestling to 9th place when no weight classes have 9 automatic bids? And if not for automatic bids why are they not doing it at every weight class?
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 06, 2021, 10:17:55 PM
Why are they wrestling to 9th place when no weight classes have 9 automatic bids? And if not for automatic bids why are they not doing it at every weight class?
If they have 8 qualifiers and someone gets hurt, they need a 9th place guy to move up ?
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on March 06, 2021, 10:22:19 PM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 06, 2021, 10:17:55 PM
Why are they wrestling to 9th place when no weight classes have 9 automatic bids? And if not for automatic bids why are they not doing it at every weight class?
It's for the fans in attendance....wait.
My bad, just checked and fans weren't allowed.
If there are 8 automatic bids at a weight, they always wrestle to 9th. It is one of the wild card criteria. There are 6 or 7 national wild cards per weight this year, so placing 9th for Model and Krattiger could help their wild card chance. Barnett should receive a wild card based on his national ranking coming into the tourney.
Dan Bertoni defeats Dom Dentino 5 - 0
Nick South defeats Josh Otto 2 - 1
Illinois is having a tough tournament too. I would assume if you had 35 guys in the room you'd have a better chance of some guys turning into all Americans versus only 25. Not all recruits are going to be great college wrestlers.
Quote from: jw52 on March 06, 2021, 08:41:29 PM
UW messed up when they didn't recruit Askren alnd again when they overlooked him for Bono. Recruiting the #1 guy is great, but that one guy is good for 6 points at a dual. You guys happy losing duals 27-6 as long as we have one good guy?
" and again when they overlooked him for Bono."
Got to get over this obsession. Askren has not shown the inclination or ability for the job you speak of, NCAA Head Coach. I know this is blasphemy to you and the home town hero but pining away about it is a waste of time. If not, it would have happened by now.
"Currently in 12th place outta 14? Even Barry's worst year wasn't that bad. Time to think about a change or just keep drinking the kool aid?"
After season three? No. Particularly when UW's men's hockey team just won the B1G title in Tony Granato's fifth season and believe me there were UW puckheads ready to run Granato out of town after the previous three seasons. So you've got to give a coaching staff at least five seasons to build a program unless they're complete idiots and threaten to ruin everything.
"Like the #1 overall recruit in 2020? Or the #7 overall recruit in 2021? Or the # 1 Heavyweight in the country? Yeah, Bono needs to recruit better "
Bono has recruited well as far as getting a few studs and some talented transfers but he hasn't built a program yet. 25 people in the room isn't going to cut it and I don't care if they're all studs. The Badgers need more depth to be competitive to deal with things like injuries and having good, competitive practice partners.
"It hasn't been a train wreck like it was at the end of Davis' tenure. "
In three seasons so far Bono is 21-18 in dual meets overall and 8-17 in the Big Ten. His teams have finished seventh and ninth and probably 12th in the league meet. Don't talk to me about "train wrecks" considering the Badgers finished sixth in the B1G meet in his final season coaching and the last match BD coached was Wick's third place win in 2018 in the NCAA meet. Just remember all you Barry bashers, the window for criticizing him for whatever shortcomings the program has is rapidly closing.
"Bono can recruit (It's a good a thing because he doesn't teach technique!)"
That's not very reassuring, on top of hearing his relations with the club and high school coaches in state are not very good.
" That is tremendous early in the season when you can steal a few wins here and there and maybe a couple dual meets to build fan base and create that excitement. The issue with that excitement is now people have expectations and when all the teams are now in shape at the end of the year you can't win those same matches."
Indeed, raise expectations and you can't meet them, then disappointment doesn't begin to describe the reaction. Good post.
"When you pay a new coach more than double the the previous one, of course expectations will and should be high. Wrestlers are improving but after watching today, the other big ten wrestlers are improving at a greater level. Wrestlers continue to lose to guys they beat earlier in the season."
That's not improvement and the whole point to paying the new coach double was to be able to hire a coach like Bono. Think of it this way: Barry Davis is the winningest coach in UW history and all those wins came pretty cheap for the UWAD.
"UW messed up when they didn't recruit Askren and again when they overlooked him for Bono."
What, putting him in charge of the RTC not good enough for you? Are you saying Ben's put a curse on UW which is going to haunt the program for as long as he's alive? How old is he?
"Please don't make excuses by blaming past coaches. You take on job it's your job to build a better team."
Exactly. Stu Jackson took two UW men's basketball teams to back-to-back postseason tournaments with Steve Yoder's recruits. It can be done if you've got the coaching chops.
"Next year!!!!!!! Hamiti is a top recruit and will likely win it all. ::) Come on, everyone. That's crazy talk. Barnett was a top recruit in the country as well. Don't put these kids on a pedestal."
I will say Badger wrestling fans are the kings of wishful thinking. That's why we're always looking forward towards next year! Indeed people thought Barnett was going to do exactly what we think Amos and Hamiti are going to do next season. I will also make the point that, unless he's said he's definitely coming back, don't be surprised if Wick, not being a Bono guy, finds himself some place else "next year" as a grad transfer ala Andy Howe.
"In 2012 they finished dead last with 9 points."
Yeah, those Olympic redshirt years are a pain as Barry could tell Bono.
So, I see that there are those on this forum that believe if a wrestler is not meeting their previous standards that it must be do to being "all of a sudden" average at best or not wanting to be here. Has it dawned on those of you that maybe there may be some injury issues or training issues or both? Please jump on the bandwagon of thought before assuming reason. I don't know the answer but neither do you.
It was a disappointing day for sure. That being said, I don't think that it's totally unexpected given the crucible of Big Ten competition. The margin of error is so small between many of these guys so that a single mistake or a lingering injury can make an enormous difference. Also, it seems like the Badgers never really got that "momentum building" victory that for whatever reason ignites guys and often leads to another 2-3 (or more) coin toss wins. In fact the opposite happened, and a demoralizing loss or two can really impact a team negatively. I for one think that much better days are ahead and that patience is needed, although I can understand folks who are very, very frustrated and questioning of what is happening. Go Badgers!
Solid post Wrestlemania - lots of good points.
Not that it really matters here, but Tom posted a couple of links to the Badgers' Big Ten finishes back in their hey-day in the late '70s and it reminded me how much the system has changed. During that time the Badgers were a real threat to the Hawkeyes (and Iowa was just as good then as they are now - maybe better). Certainly there was talent in the room, but nothing like the #1 recruits in the nation (no, sorry Kemp wasn't even on top of the recruiting pile at that time). There was some out of state talent on the team, to be sure, but a lot of Wisconsin boys filled the room and developed into national and world talent inside that room, e.g., Haines, Reinwand, Hull, Jeidy, Lawinger, Rein, etc... Additionally, there was depth. I specifically remember having six guys at 118. True that they weren't all world beaters, but these are Wisconsin (and Illinois) guys who turned out for practice day-in and day-out. For most, the best they could expect is to participate in a couple of the open meets, e.g., the Northern Open, and the spring open freestyle tournaments.
Certainly, times have changed, but it doesn't seem so for teams like the Hawkeyes. Other than the incredible development of in-state talent that Wisconsin had, it seems like a similar recipe down there in Iowa...except their individuals aren't finding the same international success the Badgers were finding at that time. Makes one appreciate a bit more what Kleven and Hellickson were able to build there at that time.
But, back to complaining about Bono...and BD...and how Askren would have changed it all...
"Next year!!!!!!! Hamiti is a top recruit and will likely win it all. ::) Come on, everyone. That's crazy talk. Barnett was a top recruit in the country as well. Don't put these kids on a pedestal."
I will say Badger wrestling fans are the kings of wishful thinking. That's why we're always looking forward towards next year! Indeed people thought Barnett was going to do exactly what we think Amos and Hamiti are going to do next season. I will also make the point that, unless he's said he's definitely coming back, don't be surprised if Wick, not being a Bono guy, finds himself some place else "next year" as a grad transfer ala Andy Howe.
[/quote]
Just so we are clear, who has made any projections on what Hamiti will do next year? I would assume most think he will redshirt. Barnett is not the same level of recruit as Amos or Hamiti. Barnett was not a top 10 overall recruit like Amos or Hamiti.
Barnett was more on the level of Burwick, Zargo, Copass, etc. Good recruits, but a step below the elite.
Amos results speak for themselves. He just beat TJ Dudley, who was a mutliple high AA. I think it takes a pretty negative person at this point to think he wont be competing at a high level assuming he is healthy.
Agree with everyone on the disappointment of not pulling out a few of those close matches. But even on a good day with Barnett, Model, and Krattiger placing we would be around 10th. As fans we always want improvement from the year prior, but the next two years will show if Bono and Co. are on the right track. Those will be year 4 and 5 and he should have had ample opportunity to recruit, train, and develop his guys. Not going to do the next year thing continually like what happened in the Barry era. There are horses in the stable as others mentioned with Wick and Amos. Hamiti is an elite recruit, but won't say he is an AA type guy right away. The key with Wick and Amos is they fill spots where we have got very minimal production this year. You go from being seeded 14 at Big Tens to top 2 with Wick and top 5-6 for sure with Amos.
Even with a bad day: AQ- Burwick, Weiler, and Hillger. At Large- Barnett should get one as he is the 2nd highest ranked guy to not get an AQ. Sharenbrock is on the outside I think. Model should get in if he can win this morning. Krattiger has to beat Soehnlen who he beat 3-2 in the dual. Im predicting 6 qualifiers with Barnett, Model, and Krattiger making it.
Just re-watched the Burwick / Dryden match
In Burwick's relentless pursuit of the victory,
Kyle was in on Dryden's legs 13 times
Kyle forced 3 stalling calls and earned 2 points
Kyle finally scored on his last shot with 5 seconds remaining for the 4-3 win!
This is not counting the times he shot in and did not get in on the legs...
While many can paint a gray, gloomy vision of the present and future, this match personified what Bono preaches..
hustle, effort , attitude ... desire, grit...determination...
Overall, I believe the cup is half full, not half empty...
If I'm not mistaken ... Howe left under Barry (and should have been his replacement) - so how's it any different if Wick leaves under Bono ... (but I sure hope he doesn't).
I realize we want to see more right out of the gate from underclassmen - but they can develop ... and an infusion of talent in the room (at any weight(s)) will help. The vast majority of the starters have at least 2 years of eligibility left ... plus next year's recruits ...
I say give it, at least, another year before continuing with this level of harshness.
Any ideas of assistant coach changes that would be helpful?
Quote from: neutral on March 07, 2021, 09:33:37 AM
If I'm not mistaken ... Howe left under Barry (and should have been his replacement) - so how's it any different if Wick leaves under Bono ... (but I sure hope he doesn't).
I realize we want to see more right out of the gate from underclassmen - but they can develop ... and an infusion of talent in the room (at any weight(s)) will help. The vast majority of the starters have at least 2 years of eligibility left ... plus next year's recruits ...
I say give it, at least, another year before continuing with this level of harshness.
Any ideas of assistant coach changes that would be helpful?
Who are you going to get that are better than Reader and Gross? They both have a ton to bring to the table. The only thing I wish they had was the volunteer assistant spot to add another high level coach to the group preferably someone from outside the group that would bring different ideas.
Being a really good wrestler has nothing to do with being a really good coach. You ask who can they bring in? A coach who teaches wrestling technique and they don't dump him after 2 years to bring in "their guy"
Thanks npope, appreciate the kind words.
"While many can paint a gray, gloomy vision of the present and future, this match personified what Bono preaches...hustle, effort , attitude ... desire, grit...determination..."!
That's great! Now when this seeps down to the other members of the team we might have something here.
I want you to name me the coach who preaches apathy, laziness, selfishness, narcisissm, deviousness and defeatism. Because I tell you what, I'm going to give him a gold medal for honesty. You think Olympic medalist and Big Ten champion Barry Davis never preached "hustle, effort , attitude ... desire, grit...determination..." as a coach? Come on! Who doesn't?
Platitudes are fine but that's not what feeds the bulldog, not when everyone is saying the same thing. What builds a championship program is obviously talent, but talent that is able to get better (not plateau or regress) in four/five years, able to learn new things and performs consistently at a high level in spite of the fact as human beings we never always do.
And what makes a championship team in college wrestling is not having 10 gold medalists, but having 10 All-Americans. That what Iowa and Oklahoma State do, that what all the good teams do and some of those wrestlers are not all going to be your junior level studs but those who prove it in the highest crucible of competition in the B1G and the NCAAs. The great UW teams of the late 1970s and early 80s at least were structured to produce 10 All Americans even if they didn't do so. It wasn't just Kemp but all those that were in that wrestling room and got better over four years and eventually became All-Americans even if they didn't do this and that before they got to college.
I looked over those past NCAA and Big Ten results too npope and it confirmed to me just how snakebit UW's program is. Iowa was really, really good (and still is) but not just because they had champions. Some years they didn't. But they Dang made sure to have place winners and that's what matters. You get 10 of those and probably going to finish in top four, probably even win it. UW just couldn't keep up and it didn't help when they had seeded wrestlers get upset in the first round of the national tournament. Still, and I think you and I both agree its the way a college program should be run and can still be so even with a limit on numbers. As I said, 35 wrestlers would be ideal in this day and age and having a tournament like the Northern Open once again, why not?
Quote from: The Legend on March 07, 2021, 10:03:44 AM
Being a really good wrestler has nothing to do with being a really good coach. You ask who can they bring in? A coach who teaches wrestling technique and they don't dump him after 2 years to bring in "their guy"
Boy I tell you what, this thing with McDonough is going to prove to be as much millstone around the Bono regime's neck as Donny Pritzlaff was around Barry Davis'. Obviously a head coach has the right to have who he wants on his staff but there are good and bad ways of doing so and when you go the bad route then you have to accept the consequences for your actions and how people outside the program perceive them.
Quote from: The Legend on March 07, 2021, 10:03:44 AM
Being a really good wrestler has nothing to do with being a really good coach. You ask who can they bring in? A coach who teaches wrestling technique and they don't dump him after 2 years to bring in "their guy"
understood - but being a good wrestler has a lot to do with having a good/well-rounded coaching staff ... as many as possible.
Session 3 Badger Matchups
Consolation Semis
133 - Burwick vs Cannon (NW)
184 - Weiler vs Brands (IA) (Weiler's shoulder was wrapped during semis - wondering if he will wrestle today)
7th Place Match
285 - Hillger vs Luffman (ILL) Lost to Luffman in the dual. Winner qualifies for NCAA's. Let's go Thor!
9th Place Bracket
125 - Barnett vs Cardini (ILL) lost to Cardini in the dual. Time for redemption!
157 - Model vs Baughman (IND)
174 - Krattiger vs Soehnlen (PUR) (or Spadafora (MD)?) Beat Soehnlen in the dual. Unclear why the cross bracket on Trackwrestling, unless they re-seed when there is an upset in the 9th place bracket.
If Barnett, Model and Krattiger win, they will wrestle again for 9th place.
This team should be quite a bit better next year but still don't see them being a top 5 team in Big ten any time to soon
Quote from: wrestlemania on March 07, 2021, 10:06:56 AM
Thanks npope, appreciate the kind words.
"While many can paint a gray, gloomy vision of the present and future, this match personified what Bono preaches...hustle, effort , attitude ... desire, grit...determination..."!
That's great! Now when this seeps down to the other members of the team we might have something here.
I want you to name me the coach who preaches apathy, laziness, selfishness, narcisissm, deviousness and defeatism. Because I tell you what, I'm going to give him a gold medal for honesty. You think Olympic medalist and Big Ten champion Barry Davis never preached "hustle, effort , attitude ... desire, grit...determination..." as a coach? Come on! Who doesn't?
Platitudes are fine but that's not what feeds the bulldog, not when everyone is saying the same thing. What builds a championship program is obviously talent, but talent that is able to get better (not plateau or regress) in four/five years, able to learn new things and performs consistently at a high level in spite of the fact as human beings we never always do.
And what makes a championship team in college wrestling is not having 10 gold medalists, but having 10 All-Americans. That what Iowa and Oklahoma State do, that what all the good teams do and some of those wrestlers are not all going to be your junior level studs but those who prove it in the highest crucible of competition in the B1G and the NCAAs. The great UW teams of the late 1970s and early 80s at least were structured to produce 10 All Americans even if they didn't do so. It wasn't just Kemp but all those that were in that wrestling room and got better over four years and eventually became All-Americans even if they didn't do this and that before they got to college.
I looked over those past NCAA and Big Ten results too npope and it confirmed to me just how snakebit UW's program is. Iowa was really, really good (and still is) but not just because they had champions. Some years they didn't. But they Dang made sure to have place winners and that's what matters. You get 10 of those and probably going to finish in top four, probably even win it. UW just couldn't keep up and it didn't help when they had seeded wrestlers get upset in the first round of the national tournament. Still, and I think you and I both agree its the way a college program should be run and can still be so even with a limit on numbers. As I said, 35 wrestlers would be ideal in this day and age and having a tournament like the Northern Open once again, why not?
I stand by everything I said and see a bright future for the Badgers. Chris Bono, Jon Reader and Seth Gross are great communicators. I believe that will ultimately pay dividends down the road in the Badgers success.
Quote from: The Legend on March 06, 2021, 08:11:15 PM
Bono can recruit (It's a good a thing because he doesn't teach technique!)
Guys on this team have gone backwards and yes Evan Wick has too. You saw his decent last year. Being out of the room a lot this year he has started to progress again.
You have a Cross Country minded coach as a head coach of your wrestling team! That is tremendous early in the season when you can steal a few wins here and there and maybe a couple dual meets to build fan base and create that excitement.
If it were not for the 1 or 2 year transfers from other programs where would this team be?
Teaching wrestling would be a great start!
Out of all the posts over the past few days, this one has really stuck in my head. As a former football coach it really struck home. When a coach depends on getting a few star athletes each year they run the risk of feast or famine. If that top athlete leaves or gets hurt, it basically ruins the season and potentially ruins a few years. If the star athlete has a negative attitude, so goes the attitude of the team. Personally, I think consistency is best. Learn how to coach up and develop every athlete so the rising tide lifts all ships. If the coaching staff is not good at "teaching wrestling," I think that is a problem. Even at this level athletes need a coach who can develop them physically, mentally, and with technique. If numerous guys are going backwards every year, it's 100% on the coaching staff. I don't remember the coaching staff pointing the finger at themselves yet in any of the social media posts. If I was Bono, I would take all the blame for the setbacks and give all the praise for the success to the athletes. It is great to always try to portray a "half full" attitude but that doesn't work when the wheels are falling off. At some point, you have to address the elephant in the room.
I don't mind the "cross country" coach who tries to get the athletes in top shape but I do agree that some form of tapering before the end of the season is usually what most coaches strive for to prevent burn out and injuries. I am not in the room so I don't know if that happens or not. In addition, I find it hard to believe that 3 NCAA champion coaches can't "teach" wrestling but I have seen it before. Just because you are good at recruiting and were a great athlete does not mean you will be a great coach. I think the best coaches I have been around are the ones that have mastered the mental part of coaching versus the physical. Can you develop an athletes mind? I hate to jump on the Askren bandwagon but he seems to have this gift which is one of the things that sets him apart and the athletes seem to really connect with him which is another important success factor. On the flip side, I think he is an entrepreneur by nature and think he would have a hard time fitting in to the university bureaucracy.
I look at guys like Olympic and World champion and Wisconsin native John Peterson whom I have the ultimate respect for. When talking with John it struck me that he never qualified for the state tournament and wrestled for UW Stout and took 5th at NAIA nationals. What changed for him? He said training with Dan Gable was a huge part of it. The same guy who coached the Hawkeyes to all those championships for all those years. What made Gable so great as a coach? I believe he not only mastered how to teach wrestling (the technical and physical) but he was even better at teaching the mental aspect of sports. I have heard him talk many times as an athlete and also a parent and really feel this is what set him apart.
If I was Bono, I would be trying to develop this part of my coaching toolbox. If I naturally was good at recruiting and conditioning, I would find someone to get on my staff that was good at the mental and technical part of coaching to compliment me. As a coach, you always want to get "your guys" on your staff but sometimes you need to look outside your circle to grow. I also wonder if Reader is really the good recruiter.
I think they did great! They wrestled great! They really worked hard. Today they'll finish great! Can't wait until next year because they'll be great again!
Quote from: FinalWord on March 07, 2021, 10:44:43 AM
I think they did great! They wrestled great! They really worked hard. Today they'll finish great! Can't wait until next year because they'll be great again!
Working hard is
good but at some point you have to execute. That is the difference between good and great. If the Badgers get to that level, look out.
Wrestling starts at 11AM
Quote from: crossface21 on March 06, 2021, 09:40:51 AM
Yeah, very important for Barnett to get the W next round. Burwick will likely face the #10 seed. If he wins that he places top 8.
Burwick wrestling awesome! Coming back strong!
Quote from: 1Iota on March 06, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
I want to be fair to Bono & he needs to be given a chance to coach his recruits as upperclassmen, but this is hard to watch. Do we have one guy who has wrestled above his seed?
Yes, Burwick for sure!
Quote from: Harris on March 07, 2021, 10:50:02 AM
Quote from: FinalWord on March 07, 2021, 10:44:43 AM
I think they did great! They wrestled great! They really worked hard. Today they'll finish great! Can't wait until next year because they'll be great again!
Working hard is good but at some point you have to execute. That is the difference between good and great. If the Badgers get to that level, look out.
Dr. Sheldon Cooper doesn't get sarcasm either!
Barnett 12 Cardini 2 onto the 9th Place Match against Liam Cronin (NEB)
Quote from: FinalWord on March 07, 2021, 11:13:24 AM
Quote from: Harris on March 07, 2021, 10:50:02 AM
Quote from: FinalWord on March 07, 2021, 10:44:43 AM
I think they did great! They wrestled great! They really worked hard. Today they'll finish great! Can't wait until next year because they'll be great again!
Working hard is good but at some point you have to execute. That is the difference between good and great. If the Badgers get to that level, look out.
Dr. Sheldon Cooper doesn't get sarcasm either!
Oh, I got it but there is a hint of truth in sarcasm ;)
Nice start by Model and Barnett.
Model 7 Baughman 5 onto the 9th place match ! Rematch against Elijah Cleary (OSU)
Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on March 07, 2021, 11:13:33 AM
Barnett 12 Cardini 2 onto the 9th Place Match against Liam Cronin (NEB)
Awesome! Barnett will be great! Hopefully next year is his breakout year. He had some great wins this year. Its sad though to see Howard still wrestling back for 3rd.
My biggest disappointment can be summed up in 2 words, O'Toole and Keickesen! How did we lose both those guys? I am loving seeing so many Wisconsin guys wrestling D1 this year and being successful. This must be the most Wisconsin wrestlers on D1 squads in a long time. Wish we had them all on the Badgers!
Krattiger forfeited...
Cannon defeats Burwick 9-7
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on March 06, 2021, 06:49:01 PM
Barnett was up 8-0 3:09 seconds into the match.
Just finished watching this match on B1G replay. Barnett is dangerous! He took McKie down to his back for 4 and turned him 2 more times in the first period. McKie stormed back in the second with 6 points off takedowns, 1 was a fireman's to Barnett's back for 4. Start of the third McKie took neutral and took Barnett down and turned him for a quick pin. Barnett seemed to lose a little steam down the stretch on his feet but his top game and bottom game is strong. My opinion he just needs to expand his repetoire on his feet and he will definitely be AA material.
From the score he dismantled Cardani which isn't easy to do. I have to find that match next! Cronin wrestling for 9th as a 2nd seed. Every team has underperforming wrestlers. Even Iowa with Murin and Penn State with Bartlett and several others.
Kyle Burwick will wrestle Jacob Rundell (PUR) in a rematch for 5th place
Quote from: stbird on March 07, 2021, 11:56:36 AM
Quote from: BackwardsHatAttack on March 06, 2021, 06:49:01 PM
Barnett was up 8-0 3:09 seconds into the match.
Just finished watching this match on B1G replay. Barnett is dangerous! He took McKie down to his back for 4 and turned him 2 more times in the first period. McKie stormed back in the second with 6 points off takedowns, 1 was a fireman's to Barnett's back for 4. Start of the third McKie took neutral and took Barnett down and turned him for a quick pin. Barnett seemed to lose a little steam down the stretch on his feet but his top game and bottom game is strong. My opinion he just needs to expand his repetoire on his feet and he will definitely be AA material.
Certainly is dangerous but when your winning like that and get taken apart half way through a 7 minute match is concerning. Also mckie will be back next year so he better get better quick.
Brands defeats Weiler 2-0.
Chris Weiler will wrestle Layne Malczewski of Michigan State for5th Place.
Weiler appears to have a difficult shoulder issue. Wearing a brace and toughing it out. Not easy.
THOR BY FALL OVER LUFFMAN 1:08
Trent Hillger returns to the NCAA's!
Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on March 07, 2021, 11:30:55 AM
Krattiger forfeited...
injury?
I brought "healthy" up in one post and was kind of laughed at. Guess I might have known what was up with any Big Ten wrestler short season or not and it appears there is something a little more going on at the W then the average Big Ten team.
Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on March 07, 2021, 01:11:02 PM
THOR BY FALL OVER LUFFMAN 1:08
Trent Hillger returns to the NCAA's!
Yes!
Liam Cronin defeats Eric Barnett by fall
Barnett finishes 10th.
Arguably our best young wrestler finished 10th out of 14 at big 10s..ibcluding getting pinned twice. Reality check.
Quote from: Wisconsin Wrestling Fan on March 07, 2021, 01:11:02 PM
THOR BY FALL OVER LUFFMAN 1:08
Trent Hillger returns to the NCAA's!
Awesome! Hopefully Thor is back full power for the NCAA's!
2 wrestling for 5th and one that placed 7th. So 3 guys so far qualified for the NCAA. Is this what the BadgerNation is hoping for? I think with the year that is about where they should be, maybe 1 more at the NCAA.
After watching a lot of these wrestlebacks now, our guys are wrestling tough! The top game is very impressive. We aren't quite there yet, but with another year I think these guys will be competing with anyone. We all want our freshmen and sophomores to come out and be All Americans but that just isn't reality. We can be a top 10 program every year if we can continually have our juniors and seniors as serious all american contenders with freshmen and sophomores learning the ropes and continually improving. I think we will see the beginning of this next year.
Cleary defeats Model 6-3
Model finishes 10th..
Quote from: mkm13 on March 07, 2021, 01:19:40 PM
Arguably our best young wrestler finished 10th out of 14 at big 10s..ibcluding getting pinned twice. Reality check.
Barnett wrestled 5 top 20 wrestlers in the country at the Big Tens.
Eric defeated #16 Cardini and #18 Howard; he lost to #6 Cronin, #7 Heinselman and #10 McKee.
Obviously Barnett could have wrestled better - he was a little sloppy this weekend. He should get a wild card at 125.
Let's hope he does
Burwick is up...
Quote from: stbird on March 07, 2021, 01:28:35 PM
After watching a lot of these wrestlebacks now, our guys are wrestling tough! The top game is very impressive. We aren't quite there yet, but with another year I think these guys will be competing with anyone. We all want our freshmen and sophomores to come out and be All Americans but that just isn't reality. We can be a top 10 program every year if we can continually have our juniors and seniors as serious all american contenders with freshmen and sophomores learning the ropes and continually improving. I think we will see the beginning of this next year.
Yes they were wrestling tough but look at where they were wrestling. Not trying to downgrade the end result but they weren't wrestling in high placing matches. I agree they look good in the top position with the matches i saw today. I am scratching my head trying to figure out if it was a non covid year with Wick and Amos possibly in the line up how much of a difference they would have vaulted them in over all standings. Badger are still a long ways away from getting top 5 or even top 7. Look at the youth on some of these teams like Penn State and Minnesota.
get a takedown Burwick!
Yes! now finish!!
Nice tournament Burwick.
Kyle Burwick defeats Jacob Rundell 4-3 to take 5th Place.
Another big comeback in the 3rd period for the win!
Great tournament for Burwick!
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 07, 2021, 03:29:31 PM
Yes! now finish!!
Good job Kyle, nice tournament and way to advance!
Go get em Badgers.
Michigan State in 5th place. They've come a long ways in the last few years.
Are the Spartans now where UW should be or wants to be?
Quote from: hammer on March 07, 2021, 03:23:27 PM
I am scratching my head trying to figure out if it was a non covid year with Wick and Amos possibly in the line up how much of a difference they would have vaulted them in over all standings. Badger are still a long ways away from getting top 5 or even top 7. Look at the youth on some of these teams like Penn State and Minnesota.
Looking at the team scores, if Wick and Amos were wrestling this year we likely move up to 10th. Krattiger and Barnett both scored only 1 team point. For us to take a next step, those guys have to be pushing to AA, not hoping to qualify.
It was nice to see Burwick have a solid tournament. Hope he can build on that.
"Looking at the team scores, if Wick and Amos were wrestling this year we likely move up to 10th."
That's actually kind of sad when you think about it and they're supposed to be the big guns.
"Krattiger and Barnett both scored only 1 team point."
Add Model to that group because he had a very good B1G tournament last season (wrestling above seed) along Krattiger and for whatever reason, they just didn't have it this weekend.
Chris Weiler places 5th as Layne Malczewski forfeits.
Quote from: wrestlemania on March 07, 2021, 04:49:55 PM
"Looking at the team scores, if Wick and Amos were wrestling this year we likely move up to 10th."
That's actually kind of sad when you think about it and they're supposed to be the big guns.
"Krattiger and Barnett both scored only 1 team point."
Add Model to that group because he had a very good B1G tournament last season (wrestling above seed) along Krattiger and for whatever reason, they just didn't have it this weekend.
To clarify, we do likely finish 10th with them, but there not many points between 5th and 9th. If Krattiger and Barnett can both score 6 to 8 points, which isn't crazy, that could put us as high as 5th.
Quote from: mkm13 on March 07, 2021, 05:32:22 PM
Quote from: wrestlemania on March 07, 2021, 04:49:55 PM
"Looking at the team scores, if Wick and Amos were wrestling this year we likely move up to 10th."
That's actually kind of sad when you think about it and they're supposed to be the big guns.
"Krattiger and Barnett both scored only 1 team point."
Add Model to that group because he had a very good B1G tournament last season (wrestling above seed) along Krattiger and for whatever reason, they just didn't have it this weekend.
To clarify, we do likely finish 10th with them, but there not many points between 5th and 9th. If Krattiger and Barnett can both score 6 to 8 points, which isn't crazy, that could put us as high as 5th.
Ok that is promising but the big problem is those two we are talking about got one point. Dang I want or I am wishing this team to be top 5! Good luck for those going forward.
To clarify, we do likely finish 10th with them, but there not many points between 5th and 9th. If Krattiger and Barnett can both score 6 to 8 points, which isn't crazy, that could put us as high as 5th.
On that point I agree with you: ideally 10th this weekend w/o Wick and Amos; fifth with them if all else goes well.
Studs are studs when you get 9 #1 seeds winning and one #2 seed. Many other upsets but the best are the best and when a team has a couple then you have a special team.
There are levels of wrestlers in the Big Ten. And quite a bit of differences in talent from first place to fifth place to 10th place.
More often than not you don't see to many guys finish 8th-14th at big tens and then in future years get into top 5. That is a huge jump. They are actually more likely to be passed by incoming freshman than they are to move up into that top tier.
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 07, 2021, 05:52:54 PM
Studs are studs when you get 9 #1 seeds winning and one #2 seed. Many other upsets but the best are the best and when a team has a couple then you have a special team.
There are levels of wrestlers in the Big Ten. And quite a bit of differences in talent from first place to fifth place to 10th place.
More often than not you don't see to many guys finish 8th-14th at big tens and then in future years get into top 5. That is a huge jump. They are actually more likely to be passed by incoming freshman than they are to move up into that top tier.
I may agree with that but do you have data that backs the 8 to 14 place up?
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 07, 2021, 05:52:54 PM
Studs are studs when you get 9 #1 seeds winning and one #2 seed. Many other upsets but the best are the best and when a team has a couple then you have a special team.
There are levels of wrestlers in the Big Ten. And quite a bit of differences in talent from first place to fifth place to 10th place.
More often than not you don't see to many guys finish 8th-14th at big tens and then in future years get into top 5. That is a huge jump. They are actually more likely to be passed by incoming freshman than they are to move up into that top tier.
For the most part i agree, but every weight is different. This year, for example, the 2nd best at 125 is very weak compared to many years, and there is not a big gap between the 2nd best and 10th best. Now the gap between #1 and #2 is huge.
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 07, 2021, 05:52:54 PM
Studs are studs when you get 9 #1 seeds winning and one #2 seed. Many other upsets but the best are the best and when a team has a couple then you have a special team.
There are levels of wrestlers in the Big Ten. And quite a bit of differences in talent from first place to fifth place to 10th place.
More often than not you don't see to many guys finish 8th-14th at big tens and then in future years get into top 5. That is a huge jump. They are actually more likely to be passed by incoming freshman than they are to move up into that top tier.
So, maybe - if a guy doesn't place 8th or higher by the end of his Soph. year ... his scholarship should be pulled for a new recruit? ;)
Quote from: neutral on March 08, 2021, 07:05:37 AM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 07, 2021, 05:52:54 PM
Studs are studs when you get 9 #1 seeds winning and one #2 seed. Many other upsets but the best are the best and when a team has a couple then you have a special team.
There are levels of wrestlers in the Big Ten. And quite a bit of differences in talent from first place to fifth place to 10th place.
More often than not you don't see to many guys finish 8th-14th at big tens and then in future years get into top 5. That is a huge jump. They are actually more likely to be passed by incoming freshman than they are to move up into that top tier.
There's a very good chance that if they are on a (partial) scholarship (very few in the sport are on a full scholarship), that it will be reduced or revolked. They can stay on the team and earn back what they lost, they may be able to get some other types of financial assistance, but with only 9.9 available per team, nobody is "locked in" to their scholarship amount for the full duration of their time on the team. New guys need to be brought in. It's how it works for virtually every sport that isn't a "head count".
So, maybe - if a guy doesn't place 8th or higher by the end of his Soph. year ... his scholarship should be pulled for a new recruit? ;)
Those are hard decisions. I think some probably treat it like the pros and if you are not good enough the university is not giving you any more money. Others struggle with loyalty and believe in the athlete to get better. Injuries and redshirts complicate this even more. Is it about the sport and success or is it about the student athletes.
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 08, 2021, 12:47:20 PM
Those are hard decisions. I think some probably treat it like the pros and if you are not good enough the university is not giving you any more money. Others struggle with loyalty and believe in the athlete to get better. Injuries and redshirts complicate this even more. Is it about the sport and success or is it about the student athletes.
Hard decisions and complex decisions. Everyone's situation is different. Some athletes come from a family that can easily afford the tuition if there is little or no scholarship, or have an Edvest account, other athletes will have to take student loans for every penny that is not covered by the UW and many fall somewhere in between. Also if you voluntarily give up some of your scholarship that may help to recruit other athletes with that money. That could make for team success, provide for better practice partners but could also bring in an athlete that could beat you out. Doc I like your point about the student athlete. It often gets lost that with wins and losses, NCAA births, and All Americans that these are young men with hopes and dreams that are busting their a** to try to get a degree and be really good in a very difficult sport.
After watching the ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 Finals, I noticed a very significant difference in the talent level. It is nice to see Wisconsin kids doing well in the other conferences but I doubt that MOST of them would have any better success than the Wisconsin kids wrestling for the Badgers. The Big 10 conference is so tough.
Quote from: Woody38 on March 08, 2021, 03:08:02 PM
After watching the ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 Finals, I noticed a very significant difference in the talent level. It is nice to see Wisconsin kids doing well in the other conferences but I doubt that MOST of them would have any better success than the Wisconsin kids wrestling for the Badgers. The Big 10 conference is so tough.
And this might be part of the reason why some of them chose schools in other conferences. It might be an easier task getting an NCAA berth, and for some, that's the piece of the pie they want.
Quote from: Woody38 on March 08, 2021, 03:08:02 PM
After watching the ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 Finals, I noticed a very significant difference in the talent level. It is nice to see Wisconsin kids doing well in the other conferences but I doubt that MOST of them would have any better success than the Wisconsin kids wrestling for the Badgers. The Big 10 conference is so tough.
That is a very interesting take. I am curious how they are going to seed the NCAA with no tournaments and no inter-conference match ups. I suspect there may be some fairly highly seeded wrestlers from those conferences being knocked off by much lower seeded big ten wrestlers with .500 records in the early rounds.
The Big 10 gets a lot more automatic qualifiers than the other conferences. It might be easier to have a good record in the other conferences but I don't know if it's significantly easier to qualify for the NCAA's in the other conferences. There are a lot of good wrestlers in the other conferences too.
Quote from: Wis-Mallard on March 09, 2021, 07:55:13 AM
The Big 10 gets a lot more automatic qualifiers than the other conferences. It might be easier to have a good record in the other conferences but I don't know if it's significantly easier to qualify for the NCAA's in the other conferences. There are a lot of good wrestlers in the other conferences too.
Agreed. No one can deny the Big Ten's depth, but the talent level at the top isn't that far off from each conference.
Based on Wrestlestat, the big 10 has the following amount of wrestlers at the top 5 of their weight:
125: 2 (including easily the best)
133: 2 (2nd and 3rd best)
141: 4 of top 5 (easily the top 3)
149: 2 (2nd and 5th best)
157: 2 (2nd and 5th best)
165: 1 (the best. If Wick was not sitting out, would be 2)
174: 5 of top 6 (easily the best)
184: 2 (the best)
197: 3 (the best)
285: 3 (easily the 3 best)
Based on that, I would say the talent level at the top is not that close, especially if you consider the depth of top talent. The big 10 has atleast 1 wrestler ranked 1st or 2nd at each weight. In addition, they have atleast 2 wrestlers ranked in the top 5 at each weight except for 165, which would also be the case if Wick wrestled this year. If you want to be wrestling in the big 10 championship finals, you better plan on being a top 3 or 4 wrestler in the country. For 30% of the weights (141, 174, 285), that still might not be enough.
So having said that, which young wrestlers on the roster do you see that have any shot at wrestling in the big 10 finals? I can't see any currently. Will really need to hope Amos and Hamiti are at that level for any kind of quick turnaround. In the big 10, you need those guys to have a chance.
Quote from: dman on March 09, 2021, 07:57:22 AM
Quote from: Wis-Mallard on March 09, 2021, 07:55:13 AM
The Big 10 gets a lot more automatic qualifiers than the other conferences. It might be easier to have a good record in the other conferences but I don't know if it's significantly easier to qualify for the NCAA's in the other conferences. There are a lot of good wrestlers in the other conferences too.
Agreed. No one can deny the Big Ten's depth, but the talent level at the top isn't that far off from each conference.
It's very far off. Over half of the finalists since 2012 are from the big ten. And over half the top 4 are also from the big ten during that span. The NCAA seeding and tournament will be interesting. I'm sure the big ten teams are excited to wrestle someone outside the big ten. The other side, probably not so much.
Quote from: mkm13 on March 09, 2021, 08:48:58 AM
157: 2 (2nd and 5th best)
I'm surprised Ryan Deakin of Northwestern isn't ranked number 1. Anything can happen, but I don't see anybody challenging this guy. He seems to be on another level.
Quote from: Ledger on March 09, 2021, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: mkm13 on March 09, 2021, 08:48:58 AM
157: 2 (2nd and 5th best)
I'm surprised Ryan Deakin of Northwestern isn't ranked number 1. Anything can happen, but I don't see anybody challenging this guy. He seems to be on another level.
Wrestlestat is great but this one is a little bit of a head scratcher. Even last year wrestlestat had Hidlay ranked ahead of Deakin even though Deakin was undefeated and had beaten Hidlay at the Cliff Keens.
Quote from: Ledger on March 09, 2021, 11:17:02 AM
Quote from: mkm13 on March 09, 2021, 08:48:58 AM
157: 2 (2nd and 5th best)
I'm surprised Ryan Deakin of Northwestern isn't ranked number 1. Anything can happen, but I don't see anybody challenging this guy. He seems to be on another level.
I was surprised by that as well, and am pumped to see Hidlay and Deakin wrestle in the finals. I would give Deakin the edge as well, but would be surprised if Hidlay didn't make it very difficult.
Flo has their At-Large PREDICTIONS for NCAA tourney. They have Barnett easy choice for bid, and Krattiger scraping by with the last at large bid. No one else in their predictions.
Quote from: asdfg on March 09, 2021, 12:18:31 PM
Flo has their At-Large PREDICTIONS for NCAA tourney. They have Barnett easy choice for bid, and Krattiger scraping by with the last at large bid. No one else in their predictions.
I hope Barnett gets in there and just wrestles pissed off and tears up the bracket ;D. Come back with a vengeance.
At large bids:
https://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2021-03-09/ncaa-announces-large-selections-division-i-wrestling-championships