Wisconsin Wrestling Online

 Wisconsin Badger Head Wrestling Coach Barry Davis will retire after the NCAA tournament

Prediction, inside knowlege, educated guess or wishful thinking?

any details Brett?

Is this true or speculations?

It is true the kids were told about it.

This is huge news. Who is expected to take the head coach position...top assistant? Are they going to do a nation wide candidate search (I sure hope so)?

Parents,

I am reaching out to you today to notify you that I am resigning as Head Coach of the University of Wisconsin Wrestling program following the NCAA Championships next week.  After meeting with Coach Alvarez, we have felt it is time to make a change in leadership of the program.  It has been a wonderful 26 years at Wisconsin, I leave with nothing but fond memories from my time here. I am grateful for the opportunity to coach your sons and all the young men that came before them.  And as I move into the next chapter of my career, I look forward to new challenges, new opportunities and to spend time with my family. As we always say "Once a Badger, Always a Badger" and Coach Brandvold, Coach Ruschell, Coach Eppert and myself will always be here for your sons long after we leave the wrestling room.  Coach Brandvold and Coach Ruschell will be on staff till the end of the semester to ensure a smooth transition and we are all available to you as needed.  I have the utmost confidence in Coach Alvarez and the administration to bring in someone that will continue to build on this great program and do things the Wisconsin Way.
As I told your sons this morning in our meeting, we have one day to process this decision and then it is time to focus on the task at hand.  Our jobs here are not done until the last match of the NCAA Championships and so my focus continues to be in making them the best wrestlers possible in the time we have left to prepare.
I am open for questions and calls for the next 24 hours, but once we hit the mat on Tuesday for practice, I ask that you please wait until the Championships are over to reach out, so I can focus, prepare and finish the job at hand.
My Sport Administrator, Doug Tiedt, has also offered to field questions or comments.  He can be reached at 608-516-2300 or dat@athletics.wisc.edu
Thank you all for all of your support of your sons and of this program.  We have the best student-athletes, families and fans in the country and it has been my honor to lead the program all of these years.

On Wisconsin,
Coach Davis

Ok is this a dream?  Am I dreaming?

Omg Barry done after arguably his best coaching job at Big Tens.

This is proof that prayers are answered.

Will be interesting to see what kind of candidates will apply/be interested. Obviously Askren(we hope), Brandvold, who else?

Time will tell...   Hope this brings improvement, but it will take some time.  Wish Barry and the whole coaching staff the best.

 :D

Do we know if this is official?  What is the source of the e-mail that was posted?

I hope a true nationwide search is performed. This is going to get exciting really fast. Man, does Wisconsin have enough to go after a guy like Coach Cody Sanderson from Penn State? There are tons of great candidates out there for sure. 

Quote from: GradeTough on March 05, 2018, 11:24:41 AM
I hope a true nationwide search is performed. This is going to get exciting really fast. Man, does Wisconsin have enough to go after a guy like Coach Cody Sanderson from Penn State? There are tons of great candidates out there for sure. 

Cody Sanderson???  Are you serious??

That is shocking news.

That meeting with Alvarez must have taken place before all the matches were wrestled this weekend since the
the Badgers wrestled great on the final day of competition and most Badger fans were satisfied with the results.

Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on March 05, 2018, 10:42:59 AM
Now we get to see how serious the program is about being competitive. If they think Barry's salary will buy someone who will replicate Barry's results, they are crazy.

When did $100 K not be enough for a  head college wrestling coach?  Very few universities pay more.

If this is a joke it would be the cruelest ever put on this forum!

Even at the current salary it is a great job.  Funny how when it comes to recruiting the big sell is how great the University is but then that's the same argument for not landing great recruits.  It's a six figure job to coach wrestling.  Plenty of good candidates should be in play even without Sanderson/Dresser/Brands money.

Hire Askren!!!

This is a legit email. 100% real. Thank you lawd!

Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on March 05, 2018, 11:37:57 AM
I feel like this is the part of the story where a whole bunch of people, whose exclusive goal was to get Barry Davis fired, realize that Wisconsin commits no resources to the sport and that their natural recruiting ground isn't producing much in the way of talent. How long after you've changed the chef do you look around and realize how bad the kitchen is?

This is the part of the story where Alvarez hires the right guy (Askren) to make UW relevant with the same resources available and can hustle for new/improved resources.  it's not like they continue to change chefs.  Maybe the kitchen isn't so bad.  They still offer 9.9 scholarships.  Didn't the practice room get a face lift not long ago?  

Quote from: Barou on March 05, 2018, 11:45:07 AM

Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on March 05, 2018, 11:37:57 AM
I feel like this is the part of the story where a whole bunch of people, whose exclusive goal was to get Barry Davis fired, realize that Wisconsin commits no resources to the sport and that their natural recruiting ground isn't producing much in the way of talent. How long after you've changed the chef do you look around and realize how bad the kitchen is?

This is the part of the story where Alvarez hires the right guy (Askren) to make UW relevant with the same resources available and can hustle for new/improved resources.  it's not like they continue to change chefs.  Maybe the kitchen isn't so bad.  They still offer 9.9 scholarships.  Didn't the practice room get a face lift not long ago?  

Though not official UW there is a BRTC. Maybe the kitchen isn't as bad as Japanese Wizard thinks. The main chef could have just been the main reason for the bad recipe. Hopefully we'll know within a short period of time. Like you said, they still offer 9.9 scholarships.

I think if the right coach comes and shows success they could get a raise. I don't think the UW will shell out $200,000 for the new coach. But if someone like Askren came turned in some top 5 Big Ten finishes or showed promise and excitement around the program that could change the salary.

I think a different incentive plan will be put together for the new coach. The standards of pay have been established for the top tier. No administration is going to make this type of move without some common sense in play. They should be fully aware what the market demands and creatively structure a deal. No time to be cheap now.

J W for just one glorious day can you not whizz in our cornflakes. Yes you bring up very valuable points. But please give us one day to celebrate this looooooong overdue announcement. ;D

What does McFarland at Michigan make?  

Never mind, I found it.  It was last year, but he was at $130,460.

Fair enough

Twitter is alive with rumors that Davis will retire after NCAA tournament.

That Big Ten performance overachieved and quite happy for those wrestlers and I will be quite happy to see Davis retire after some success and go out on his terms.

I will be happy for the program overall to have some change.

Most definitely a great opportunity for this program.  JW looks at this situation with the small focus that we currently sit in.....Yes, the job currently pays around 100K....not bad...but far below many comparables....However, it is the Big Ten and the right person with tremendous vision that will make this position something special.  This has tremendous potential...many years ago Russ Hellickson with Duane kleven did things different to make UW-Madison a force in the nation...yes, we were not Iowa at that time...but something special.  I believe that Ben Askren if interested will bring that special back to our state...

And where are all the people that said Brett doesn't know what he's talking about.

YOU'RE WELCOME

Official Announcement

http://uwbadgers.com/news/2018/3/5/wisconsin-wrestling-coach-barry-davis-resigns.aspx

Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on March 05, 2018, 12:17:12 PM
As to the natural recruiting base, let's circle back.

Here's every wrestler I could find from Wisconsin, on a Division 1 roster. (I did this a while back):

Wyoming - Ben Hornicle - Backup
Wyoming - Dewey Krueger - Spot Starter

Ohio State - Dylan Koontz - Redshirting
Ohio State - Brady Koontz - Redshirting
Ohio State - Fritz Schierl - Spot Starter; Success in Opens

Iowa - Jeremiah Moody - Backup
Iowa - Tristan McDonald - Backup

Northwestern - Jason Ipsarides - Backup

South Dakota State - Anders Lantz - Redshirting

Minnesota - Hunter Marko - Starter, (5-9) @ 149, Injured?
Minnesota - Dylan Anderson - Spot Starter
Minnesota - Dalton Lunde - Backup

Northern Illinois - Jose Acosta - Redshirting

Army - Bennett Paulsen - Redshirting

Missouri - Jake Raschka - Redshirting; Success in Opens

Fresno State - Jackson Hemauer - Redshirting

Pittsburgh - Robert Lee - Starter, (5-6) @ 149; Career (31-36)

Central Michigan - Newton Smerchek - Not HWT Starter?; NCAA Qual 2016-17
Central Michigan - Brock Bergelin - Redshirting

Eastern Michigan - Mason Kauffman - Redshirting

Nebraska - Beau Breske - Starter, (9-4) @ 174

Purdue - Ben Thornton - Starter, (19-7) @ 133
Purdue - Jacob Morrissey - Starter, (16-11) @ 165

North Dakota State - Jaden Van Maanen - Redshirting
North Dakota State - Paul Bianchi - Starter, (18-9) @ 125
North Dakota State - August Peplinski - Backup
North Dakota State - Mitch Freidman - Backup

Wisconsin - Andrew Crone - Starter, (17-7) @ 157; (29-13) NCAA Qual as RS JR
Wisconsin - Cole Martin - Spot Starter; 7th @ Big Tens + NCAA Qual as RS FR
Wisconsin - Jens Lantz - Starter, (14-8) @ 133; Spot Starter as RS FR & RS SO
Wisconsin - Eric Peissig - Backup; Starter @ 197, RS SO season
Wisconsin - Mason Reinhardt - Backup; Spot Starter as RS FR, Success in Opens
Wisconsin - Jared Scharenbrock - Backup; Spot Starter as RS SO
Wisconsin - Jake Stilling - Backup; Spot Starter as RS SO & RS JR
Wisconsin - Gabe Grahek - Backup; Spot Starter as RS SO
Wisconsin - Devin Bahr - Redshirting
Wisconsin - Garrett Model - Redshirting
Wisconsin - Patrick Spray - Backup
Wisconsin - Brady Wetter - Backup

Now, here's a list of Wisconsin-based wrestlers who have qualified for the NCAA tournament:

North Dakota State - Paul Bianchi - Starter, (18-9) @ 125
Wisconsin - Andrew Crone - Starter, (17-7) @ 157; (29-13) NCAA Qual as RS JR
Wisconsin - Cole Martin - Spot Starter; 7th @ Big Tens + NCAA Qual as RS FR

It isn't pretty.

Seriously, have you beaten the dead horse enough?  I don't recall one poster indicating that Wisconsin is a hot bed for D1 talent.  Over and over again the examples were the Barry Davis misses with national champions and Hodge trophy winners out of Wisconsin over the years.  Everybody on this forum knows if UW relied only on Wisconsin talent that Barry's 18th place national average would be even worse.  He needed to recruit the RIGHT Wisconsin talent not MORE. 

Quote from: Barou on March 05, 2018, 01:23:15 PM

Quote from: Japanese Whizzer on March 05, 2018, 12:17:12 PM
As to the natural recruiting base, let's circle back.

Here's every wrestler I could find from Wisconsin, on a Division 1 roster. (I did this a while back):

Wyoming - Ben Hornicle - Backup
Wyoming - Dewey Krueger - Spot Starter

Ohio State - Dylan Koontz - Redshirting
Ohio State - Brady Koontz - Redshirting
Ohio State - Fritz Schierl - Spot Starter; Success in Opens

Iowa - Jeremiah Moody - Backup
Iowa - Tristan McDonald - Backup

Northwestern - Jason Ipsarides - Backup

South Dakota State - Anders Lantz - Redshirting

Minnesota - Hunter Marko - Starter, (5-9) @ 149, Injured?
Minnesota - Dylan Anderson - Spot Starter
Minnesota - Dalton Lunde - Backup

Northern Illinois - Jose Acosta - Redshirting

Army - Bennett Paulsen - Redshirting

Missouri - Jake Raschka - Redshirting; Success in Opens

Fresno State - Jackson Hemauer - Redshirting

Pittsburgh - Robert Lee - Starter, (5-6) @ 149; Career (31-36)

Central Michigan - Newton Smerchek - Not HWT Starter?; NCAA Qual 2016-17
Central Michigan - Brock Bergelin - Redshirting

Eastern Michigan - Mason Kauffman - Redshirting

Nebraska - Beau Breske - Starter, (9-4) @ 174

Purdue - Ben Thornton - Starter, (19-7) @ 133
Purdue - Jacob Morrissey - Starter, (16-11) @ 165

North Dakota State - Jaden Van Maanen - Redshirting
North Dakota State - Paul Bianchi - Starter, (18-9) @ 125
North Dakota State - August Peplinski - Backup
North Dakota State - Mitch Freidman - Backup

Wisconsin - Andrew Crone - Starter, (17-7) @ 157; (29-13) NCAA Qual as RS JR
Wisconsin - Cole Martin - Spot Starter; 7th @ Big Tens + NCAA Qual as RS FR
Wisconsin - Jens Lantz - Starter, (14-8) @ 133; Spot Starter as RS FR & RS SO
Wisconsin - Eric Peissig - Backup; Starter @ 197, RS SO season
Wisconsin - Mason Reinhardt - Backup; Spot Starter as RS FR, Success in Opens
Wisconsin - Jared Scharenbrock - Backup; Spot Starter as RS SO
Wisconsin - Jake Stilling - Backup; Spot Starter as RS SO & RS JR
Wisconsin - Gabe Grahek - Backup; Spot Starter as RS SO
Wisconsin - Devin Bahr - Redshirting
Wisconsin - Garrett Model - Redshirting
Wisconsin - Patrick Spray - Backup
Wisconsin - Brady Wetter - Backup

Now, here's a list of Wisconsin-based wrestlers who have qualified for the NCAA tournament:

North Dakota State - Paul Bianchi - Starter, (18-9) @ 125
Wisconsin - Andrew Crone - Starter, (17-7) @ 157; (29-13) NCAA Qual as RS JR
Wisconsin - Cole Martin - Spot Starter; 7th @ Big Tens + NCAA Qual as RS FR

It isn't pretty.

Seriously, have you beaten the dead horse enough?  I don't recall one poster indicating that Wisconsin is a hot bed for D1 talent.  Over and over again the examples were the Barry Davis misses with national champions and Hodge trophy winners out of Wisconsin over the years.  Everybody on this forum knows if UW relied only on Wisconsin talent that Barry's 18th place national average would be even worse.  He needed to recruit the RIGHT Wisconsin talent not MORE. 

+100000000

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 05, 2018, 12:17:12 PM
As to the natural recruiting base, let's circle back.

Here's every wrestler I could find from Wisconsin, on a Division 1 roster. (I did this a while back):

Wyoming - Ben Hornicle - Backup
Wyoming - Dewey Krueger - Spot Starter

Ohio State - Dylan Koontz - Redshirting
Ohio State - Brady Koontz - Redshirting
Ohio State - Fritz Schierl - Spot Starter; Success in Opens

Iowa - Jeremiah Moody - Backup
Iowa - Tristan McDonald - Backup

Northwestern - Jason Ipsarides - Backup

South Dakota State - Anders Lantz - Redshirting

Minnesota - Hunter Marko - Starter, (5-9) @ 149, Injured?
Minnesota - Dylan Anderson - Spot Starter
Minnesota - Dalton Lunde - Backup

Northern Illinois - Jose Acosta - Redshirting

Army - Bennett Paulsen - Redshirting

Missouri - Jake Raschka - Redshirting; Success in Opens

Fresno State - Jackson Hemauer - Redshirting

Pittsburgh - Robert Lee - Starter, (5-6) @ 149; Career (31-36)

Central Michigan - Newton Smerchek - Not HWT Starter?; NCAA Qual 2016-17
Central Michigan - Brock Bergelin - Redshirting

Eastern Michigan - Mason Kauffman - Redshirting

Nebraska - Beau Breske - Starter, (9-4) @ 174

Purdue - Ben Thornton - Starter, (19-7) @ 133
Purdue - Jacob Morrissey - Starter, (16-11) @ 165

North Dakota State - Jaden Van Maanen - Redshirting
North Dakota State - Paul Bianchi - Starter, (18-9) @ 125
North Dakota State - August Peplinski - Backup
North Dakota State - Mitch Freidman - Backup

Wisconsin - Andrew Crone - Starter, (17-7) @ 157; (29-13) NCAA Qual as RS JR
Wisconsin - Cole Martin - Spot Starter; 7th @ Big Tens + NCAA Qual as RS FR
Wisconsin - Jens Lantz - Starter, (14-8) @ 133; Spot Starter as RS FR & RS SO
Wisconsin - Eric Peissig - Backup; Starter @ 197, RS SO season
Wisconsin - Mason Reinhardt - Backup; Spot Starter as RS FR, Success in Opens
Wisconsin - Jared Scharenbrock - Backup; Spot Starter as RS SO
Wisconsin - Jake Stilling - Backup; Spot Starter as RS SO & RS JR
Wisconsin - Gabe Grahek - Backup; Spot Starter as RS SO
Wisconsin - Devin Bahr - Redshirting
Wisconsin - Garrett Model - Redshirting
Wisconsin - Patrick Spray - Backup
Wisconsin - Brady Wetter - Backup

Now, here's a list of Wisconsin-based wrestlers who have qualified for the NCAA tournament:

North Dakota State - Paul Bianchi - Starter, (18-9) @ 125
Wisconsin - Andrew Crone - Starter, (17-7) @ 157; (29-13) NCAA Qual as RS JR
Wisconsin - Cole Martin - Spot Starter; 7th @ Big Tens + NCAA Qual as RS FR

It isn't pretty.

Great data.
It has to be a coach that can recruit out of state.

Bono, Bono, Bono just dreaming it will never happen.

What about Kolat? Think UW has enough to lure him away from Campbell?

Quote from: GradeTough on March 05, 2018, 02:21:23 PM
What about Kolat? Think UW has enough to lure him away from Campbell?

The last time Kolat coached at UW he left in the middle of the season without telling anyone.

Somewhat surprising, figured he coach one or two more seasons.

Godspeed Barry Davis, B1G Ten Champion, NCAA Champion, Olympic Medalist. Winningest dual meet head coach in school history. National Coach of the Year. These are all facts and no one can take them away from you. You ran as clean program, the students athletes graduated and they were good kids. For what little UW spent in wrestling and allowed to take place with the program, it wasn't a bad investment considering he took over a program in utter shambles and under an onerous NCAA probation. You did no worse and in some cases better than your predecessors.

Now, you want Penn State and Ohio State results? Open your wallets not your big mouths. That's if the UWAD lets you. As I said, the best teams in college wrestling are heavily and primarily booster funded. Unfortunately the UWAD is in control of the fundraising and may never well let happen what a group of Penn State boosters did and pool their money and hire Cael Sanderson away from Iowa State. Keep that in mind.

And please drop the whole Askren campaign. It's not going to happen and even if it did it would cause more trouble than its worth. There's no reason for Barry Alvarez to go down that road and really, no reason for Askren to even apply for the job. He can say what he wants but to any objective outside observer he's not going to give up his businesses or any future in Ultimate Fighting to be told he can only have 32 kids on the squad or that the team can't sell season tickets.

And any coach from the outside is probably going to ask for at least $150,000-$200,000 and maybe more. That may well be UW's maximum range if that and it limits who is going to be interested.

Therefore, Brandvold, in my judgement, is the No. 1 candidate to be the next head wrestling coach at the University of Wisconsin. I may be wrong and certainly there will a search process given the job has to be posted for 30 days. But I doubt you're going to get a deep pool of candidates.

"He needed to recruit the RIGHT Wisconsin talent."

Oh, the right talent. Okay. You know how many three and four-time state high school wrestling champions have been in this program and have won exactly ZERO NCAA titles? Please tell me how you define the "right" talent.

Quote from: jchap on March 05, 2018, 03:10:24 PM

Quote from: GradeTough on March 05, 2018, 02:21:23 PM
What about Kolat? Think UW has enough to lure him away from Campbell?

The last time Kolat coached at UW he left in the middle of the season without telling anyone.

Ouch!

Sorry but D3 and D2 WIAA state champs no matter how many times just don't cut it at the next level.

For many of you popping the cork with Barry's departure, just keep in mind, many of the wrestlers on the team are not feeling your sentiments.

Quote from: AZKing on March 05, 2018, 03:38:41 PM
Sorry but D3 and D2 WIAA state champs no matter how many times just don't cut it at the next level.

I don't know that you can make this blanket statement.  It depends on the individual wrestler.  The reality is that D-1 college coaches don't care what a kid does at the State level.  They are watching what they are doing at the national level.  There is a reason every coach in the Country is at Fargo.  Hunter Marko was recruited based on what he did on the national scene, not because of his State titles.

Quote from: Badgerdad on March 05, 2018, 03:48:56 PM
For many of you popping the cork with Barry's departure, just keep in mind, many of the wrestlers on the team are not feeling your sentiments.

This is for sure the negative of the whole situation!

Quote from: AZKing on March 05, 2018, 03:38:41 PM
Sorry but D3 and D2 WIAA state champs no matter how many times just don’t cut it at the next level.

Quote from: factfinder on March 05, 2018, 02:18:23 PM

Now, here's a list of Wisconsin-based wrestlers who have qualified for the NCAA tournament:

North Dakota State - Paul Bianchi - Starter, (18-9) @ 125
Wisconsin - Andrew Crone - Starter, (17-7) @ 157; (29-13) NCAA Qual as RS JR
Wisconsin - Cole Martin - Spot Starter; 7th @ Big Tens + NCAA Qual as RS FR

Hmmm??? Aren't these 2 guys D2 and D3????

There hasn't necessarily been a pipeline for NCAA Div I All Americans over the last several years out of any divisions of Wis high schools, but to say a D2 or D3 state champs "don't cut it" is a little ignorant. It would be more accurate to say being a Wisconsin High School state champ on it's own at any size school is not enough to cut it at the next level. They all need to show they can compete at the national level.

Quote from: Badgerdad on March 05, 2018, 03:48:56 PM
For many of you popping the cork with Barry's departure, just keep in mind, many of the wrestlers on the team are not feeling your sentiments.

Rarely is a coaching change popular with the current members of the roster.  You can't make a change based on their opinion.

My question is what changed to cause the athletic department to move in this direction.  Clearly this was not Barry Davis's decision. 

Quote from: Badgerdad on March 05, 2018, 03:48:56 PM
For many of you popping the cork with Barry's departure, just keep in mind, many of the wrestlers on the team are not feeling your sentiments.

No one wants the kids to suffer, that is for sure. The hope is that it will be great for everyone (parents, kids, spectators) with a fresh start.

Breske has a losing record for NU. Got stuck this weekend.

I would not expect anything different from the current group of wrestlers.  This will not be an easy transition.  However, in the fairly short term this will not be an issue.  

I am looking forward to seeing how this change....has an impact far beyond the UW Madison program.  A rising tide lifts all boats.

Donnie???

List the ones that were successful in college...go ahead. I'll wait. How many one or two timers in D1 did fairly well at the college scene? Way more. Max Askren, Ben Askren, Tony Black, Kevin Black, Trevor Branvold, Eric Jetton, Craig Henning, Steve Best, etc.

Agreed. Fargo and national level success is likely to yield better D1 success.  Truth is lots of great high school wrestlers flop in D1. It's that different and tough.

Quote from: Napoleon Dynamite on March 05, 2018, 04:34:15 PM

Quote from: TLV on March 05, 2018, 04:30:08 PM
Breske has a losing record for NU. Got stuck this weekend.

TLV!!!!!   Have't seen your handle pop up in a while and after some research, your first post since December 2016.  Welcome back.  8)

Quote from: AZKing on March 05, 2018, 04:34:54 PM
List the ones that were successful in college...go ahead. I'll wait. How many one or two timers in D1 did fairly well at the college scene? Way more. Max Askren, Ben Askren, Tony Black, Kevin Black, Trevor Branvold, Eric Jetton, Craig Henning, Steve Best, etc.

Agreed. Fargo and national level success is likely to yield better D1 success.  Truth is lots of great high school wrestlers flop in D1. It's that different and tough.

You realize you had to dip into the 90's to make your argument right?  Half that list wrestled 20+ years ago...and it's a pretty tiny list for extending your timeframe out so long.

Short of someone very good at promoting and attracting talent (like an askren), I think it will be difficult at having more success than Barry had.  The elite colleges currently have a lot of resources we do not.  Despite how Mich some hated him, I don't think he was a bad coach.  He was clearly not the best recruiter and not a good promoter, but in terms of working with the wrestlers I think he did well.

Hopefully the replacement can take us to another level and fit in well. I think it is important we are able to keep the young talented wrestlers we have (Wicks, Ritter, Hillger, Konrath, Krattiger, etc). 

You guys aren't thinking straight.



J Robinson is your changer.

Quote from: Badgerdad on March 05, 2018, 03:48:56 PM
For many of you popping the cork with Barry's departure, just keep in mind, many of the wrestlers on the team are not feeling your sentiments.

Yea social media stinks for this reason.

Quote from: 1Iota on March 05, 2018, 03:54:51 PM

Quote from: AZKing on March 05, 2018, 03:38:41 PM
Sorry but D3 and D2 WIAA state champs no matter how many times just don't cut it at the next level.

I don't know that you can make this blanket statement.  It depends on the individual wrestler.  The reality is that D-1 college coaches don't care what a kid does at the State level.  They are watching what they are doing at the national level.  There is a reason every coach in the Country is at Fargo.  Hunter Marko was recruited based on what he did on the national scene, not because of his State titles.

Yep...Exactly.  Fargo adds the reinforcement to the crap shoot of recruiting.  It doesn't matter where you are from because Fargo is one division.  Besides that, the lineup will work itself out.  9.9 scholarships people!  and the scholarship %  is not equal.  At Wisconsin 50% represents $25,000 per year for an out-of-stater and $12,500 for an in-stater.   In addition, many of  the guys we recruit are smart and earn academic scholarships with high gpa's and ACT scores.  You can have your opinion about your coaching preferences, but don't shame our best kids who cannot help they grew up in smaller communities.   In addition to accomplishing wrestling at the national levels, these guys meet up with the D1 guys in different events throughout the year...and just because they're on the roster doesn't mean they get a shot on the mat or they are burning up a scholarship. In short, most of these guys have to shell out dough to wrestle and be willing to take demanding course loads.  No need for this. 

inappropriate term3 of a job Coach Davis.  Great man and a great leader for a ton of kids.  Hats off for doing it the correct way. 

Quote from: mkm13 on March 05, 2018, 05:08:09 PM
Short of someone very good at promoting and attracting talent (like an askren), I think it will be difficult at having more success than Barry had.  The elite colleges currently have a lot of resources we do not.  Despite how Mich some hated him, I don't think he was a bad coach.  He was clearly not the best recruiter and not a good promoter, but in terms of working with the wrestlers I think he did well.

Hopefully the replacement can take us to another level and fit in well. I think it is important we are able to keep the young talented wrestlers we have (Wicks, Ritter, Hillger, Konrath, Krattiger, etc). 

Who ever said they hated Coach Davis?
I have been critical though like most who know him, or of him, I like the man.

Nobody that knows anything about UW wrestling can say one bad thing about Barry Davis, the person.  He is absolutely a genuine great person.  It is understandable that the wrestlers on the team that are close to him are deeply affected today.  Hopefully they wrestle for him at NCAA's and then start to feel excitement for the change that comes with a new leader.

Even the best people don't achieve the successes expected in some positions.  Fatigue and "comfort" can also set in with a program with the same leader for so many years.

When Barry Davis returns to watch UW wrestling he should be welcomed very well.

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 05, 2018, 06:21:10 PM
Nobody that knows anything about UW wrestling can say one bad thing about Barry Davis, the person.  He is absolutely a genuine great person.

Even the best people don't achieve the successes expected in some positions.  Fatigue and "comfort" can also set in with a program with the same leader for so many years.

When Barry Davis returns to watch UW wrestling he should be welcomed very well.

Well said
Thank you

Congrats on your years at UW, BD... for all you haters you got what you wanted, hope you enjoy. Now that it's happening y'all are pretty Dang quiet.. hopefully the next incoming coach can get more respect! Again, Barry will be missed, don't like me saying this deal with it.  Good luck and look forward to hearing more about the new comer!

Quote from: OneEyedFatMan on March 05, 2018, 05:14:55 PM
You guys aren't thinking straight.



J Robinson is your changer.

You're thinking J-Rob would come to Wisconsin?

Case some forgot or can not recall, this is what we will be mising now !       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Davis_(wrestler)

I think J Rob would 👍

Quote from: wrestler6 on March 05, 2018, 06:36:13 PM
I think J Rob would 👍

Interesting.

What about current coaching staff?

Brandvold and ruschell stay as is and would be awesome to have Donny P come back! 

Quote from: Say-Say on March 05, 2018, 06:37:39 PM

Quote from: wrestler6 on March 05, 2018, 06:36:13 PM
I think J Rob would 👍

Interesting.

What about current coaching staff?

The way I read the release, it would be up to the new coach to hire all wrestling coaches after the semester.  Depending on the hire, maybe not all coaches would want to stay or be asked to stay?

Quote
The way I read the release, it would be up to the new coach to hire all wrestling coaches after the semester.  Depending on the hire, maybe not all coaches would want to stay or be asked to stay?

That's how I read it as well... current staff would stay on until the end of the semester, and then... ???

Quote from: Brett Favre on March 05, 2018, 01:12:20 PM
And where are all the people that said Brett doesn't know what he's talking about.

YOU'RE WELCOME

Present

Anybody that knocked Barry Davis the person, the human being, must never have interacted with him...however, Barry davis the D1 coach did need to go.

The Wicks and Hillgers have gone on record as not being happy about this. Hope whoever the new coach is can fit in well with them as they are a big part of UWs future.

Shane Sparks posted this on his Facebook Page:


Barry Davis was one of the best wrestlers of all-time, but he is so much more than that. I can't begin to tell the many stories I have about Barry Davis the human being. He treated me and my family so well over the years. This guy was there for me during some difficult times. You can imagine my surprise when I would get phone calls from Barry to see how I was doing or the times he would call at 10pm the day before a match to make sure I was bringing my son because he wanted us to spend good time together. He has continued to be very supportive of me with calls and texts. I stopped being impressed with Barry Davis the wrestler a long time ago. Guy would give you the shirt off his back. Thank you Barry Davis for your kindness and friendship. Heart of gold! I wish Barry the best in his next chapter.

Quote from: greysquirrelmobile on March 05, 2018, 07:15:44 PM
Shane Sparks posted this on his Facebook Page:


Barry Davis was one of the best wrestlers of all-time, but he is so much more than that. I can't begin to tell the many stories I have about Barry Davis the human being. He treated me and my family so well over the years. This guy was there for me during some difficult times. You can imagine my surprise when I would get phone calls from Barry to see how I was doing or the times he would call at 10pm the day before a match to make sure I was bringing my son because he wanted us to spend good time together. He has continued to be very supportive of me with calls and texts. I stopped being impressed with Barry Davis the wrestler a long time ago. Guy would give you the shirt off his back. Thank you Barry Davis for your kindness and friendship. Heart of gold! I wish Barry the best in his next chapter.

That's one heck of an endorsement!  I've never met the man, but there is obviously a lot to appreciate about him.  I would hope that we can all join Shane in wishing Barry a great future.

Cool post. Thanks for sharing that. Great guy that's leaving. Always been one of my favorite wrestlers. Never got to know him. Love these sorts of stories.

Quote from: greysquirrelmobile on March 05, 2018, 07:15:44 PM
Shane Sparks posted this on his Facebook Page:


Barry Davis was one of the best wrestlers of all-time, but he is so much more than that. I can't begin to tell the many stories I have about Barry Davis the human being. He treated me and my family so well over the years. This guy was there for me during some difficult times. You can imagine my surprise when I would get phone calls from Barry to see how I was doing or the times he would call at 10pm the day before a match to make sure I was bringing my son because he wanted us to spend good time together. He has continued to be very supportive of me with calls and texts. I stopped being impressed with Barry Davis the wrestler a long time ago. Guy would give you the shirt off his back. Thank you Barry Davis for your kindness and friendship. Heart of gold! I wish Barry the best in his next chapter.

+1,000,000

Quote from: AZKing on March 05, 2018, 03:38:41 PM
Sorry but D3 and D2 WIAA state champs no matter how many times just don't cut it at the next level.

Rick Lawinger,Ron Jeidy,Jim Haines.Matt Hanutke,Tyler Turner,Dennis Limmex,Ralph Liegel,Todd Seiler, Kyle Richards,Mark Schmitz,Gene Spellman,Ryan Lord,Terry Manning.Tim Hartung,Garret Lowney,Cole Konrad and the Hull brothers of Evansville.My 1 minute timer just beep thats all the little guys I could come up whith in 1 Minute       

Ringing endorsement for Barry Davis is go look at Wick's mom twitter feed.

Quote from: imwi on March 05, 2018, 06:45:59 PM

Quote from: Brett Favre on March 05, 2018, 01:12:20 PM
And where are all the people that said Brett doesn't know what he's talking about.

YOU'RE WELCOME

Present

Did I correctly or incorrectly read that like Tim-othy from the Key and Peele skit... Pre-sent!

Quote from: rv84 on March 05, 2018, 07:43:44 PM

Quote from: AZKing on March 05, 2018, 03:38:41 PM
Sorry but D3 and D2 WIAA state champs no matter how many times just don't cut it at the next level.

Rick Lawinger,Ron Jeidy,Jim Haines.Matt Hanutke,Tyler Turner,Dennis Limmex,Ralph Liegel,Todd Seiler, Kyle Richards,Mark Schmitz,Gene Spellman,Ryan Lord,Terry Manning.Tim Hartung,Garret Lowney,Cole Konrad and the Hull brothers of Evansville.My 1 minute timer just beep thats all the little guys I could come up whith in 1 Minute       
[/quote/]

Those guys just got lucky. ;)

Here's the thing...we aren't hiring for person of the year.  We're hiring a wrestling coach.  I have zero doubts Barry Davis is a great man who loves the Lord.  But in making decisions like this you take the emotion out of it and ask, but is he getting the job done?  I made a long post a couple weeks ago about all the things to consider as an administrator in the athletic department.  If doing decent on the cheap and with good people but continuing the string of never being in contention is the goal of the athletic department then welcome Coach Brandvold.  If we want to take on a little risk for a higher reward then go with an Askren.  I personally believe Alvarez prefers little risk from a non-revenue sport and is ok playing it safe considering the return (although that return is not what diehards are satisfied with).  I guess we'll find out!  Bottom line, Barry Davis was a fine man, but 25 years is a long time to be at the helm of a program and never be in contention for a title despite a string of some of the top recruiting classes in the nation.  I wish him well.

interesting how people not on the inside of this organization think they know so much about what is going on or what should be done   ...and so cavalier with other peoples livelihoods   wish these 3 coaches could judge your job performance with no idea of what you do, what resources you have/don't have, or how hard or little you work, what personal sacrifices you make or significant impact you have on these young men.  you are judge and jury when a kid from WI doesn't choose UW blaming these guys for not getting them never knowing that grades are many times the reason or maybe its not the school their parents want them to go... or maybe there isn't money left to get them...  Its tough enough to hope my boss knows enough about what do to accurately judge my performance without people outside judging me   

"body that knows anything about UW wrestling can say one bad thing about Barry Davis, the person.  He is absolutely a genuine great person.  It is understandable that the wrestlers on the team that are close to him are deeply affected today.  Hopefully they wrestle for him at NCAA's and then start to feel excitement for the change that comes with a new leader. Even the best people don't achieve the successes expected in some positions.  Fatigue and "comfort" can also set in with a program with the same leader for so many years. When Barry Davis returns to watch UW wrestling he should be welcomed very well."

Well said, outstanding sir!

I'm curious where these hightened expectations come from? It would be one thing if UW Wrestling has once, even long ago, won team titles in the league and nationally and could reach that standard again with the right coach. But UW has never won anything in wrestling on a team level? Nothing! Barry Davis has more dual meet wins and has coached more All-Americans and NCAA Champions than George Martin ever produced yet it's "The George Martin Hall of Fame" Fine! I'm not advocating changing this but again, why is BD being held to high standard? Because of Kleven/Hellickson? Okay, but they never won anything either! Second place is still freaking second place! For all you diehards and old timers, ask yourself this question, why would Hellickson, who is from Wisconsin, suddenly just up and leave Madison for a much poorer (at the time) OSU program, hmm? Did he believe he could never get the resources he felt he needed to win in Madison? And if so why? And if neither he nor Kleven, who worked in the UWAD for a long time after he left coaching, couldn't get what they needed with all the success they had, boy how is BD going to do so?

Again it's not that I think he's a great coach but the overall record deserves a little more respect than he's given by some quarters in the state's wrestling community. Yes there have been problems, recruiting misses, missed opportunities, sheer bad luck with injuries, you name it. But what program doesn't go through that from time to time? When it it's all said and done the record is a solid one for what Davis had to both work with and his own limitations and the program's limitations.

At some point people in this state have to realize what it really takes to have a successful college wrestling program that wins titles and then realize UW is a long way from that and no coach with a magic wand can change it overnight. The changes have to be long-term and systemic, not just the man at the top. I'm glad UW invested in that stability because simply hiring new coaches every five seasons who have no chance is a self-defeating processes (as University of Minnesota football fans know all too well). But we're at a crossroads now and the new hire will determine what kind of program the UWAD want or better yet is willing to pay for.
   

Quote from: rv84 on March 05, 2018, 07:43:44 PM

Quote from: AZKing on March 05, 2018, 03:38:41 PM
Sorry but D3 and D2 WIAA state champs no matter how many times just don't cut it at the next level.

Rick Lawinger,Ron Jeidy,Jim Haines.Matt Hanutke,Tyler Turner,Dennis Limmex,Ralph Liegel,Todd Seiler, Kyle Richards,Mark Schmitz,Gene Spellman,Ryan Lord,Terry Manning.Tim Hartung,Garret Lowney,Cole Konrad and the Hull brothers of Evansville.My 1 minute timer just beep thats all the little guys I could come up whith in 1 Minute       

Thank you for this. I was just about to make this list. AZKING must have been living in a cave his whole life. Look at all of those studs. Olympic medalist. Hartung was a hammer and King Cole Conrad beat big bad Steve Mocco! Imagine how good he would have been if he wrestled d1 in high school.

Quote from: Pinned on March 05, 2018, 10:19:32 PM
interesting how people not on the inside of this organization think they know so much about what is going on or what should be done   ...and so cavalier with other peoples livelihoods   wish these 3 coaches could judge your job performance with no idea of what you do, what resources you have/don't have, or how hard or little you work, what personal sacrifices you make or significant impact you have on these young men.  you are judge and jury when a kid from WI doesn't choose UW blaming these guys for not getting them never knowing that grades are many times the reason or maybe its not the school their parents want them to go... or maybe there isn't money left to get them...  Its tough enough to hope my boss knows enough about what do to accurately judge my performance without people outside judging me   

Don't know if that was directed at me or not, but here is what I said about this topic a couple weeks ago on this board:

"If I'm the AD overseeing our athletic programs here's how I would view it from an administrative perspective.

1.  We need to have a robust and self-sustaining athletic department that offers 23 sports.  There are fewer than 25 self-sustaining athletic departments in the nation meaning revenue is more than expenditures.  Wisconsin is about $1.5m to the good.

2.  To accomplish that task we need to have a quality revenue sports (football, men's basketball, men's hockey).  The revenue from those sports almost funds the entire athletic department.  And because of that, most of the resources go to those programs to ensure they are quality programs.

3.  Any resources that go to non-revenue sports need to be distributed strategically and efficiently because these sports are net losers to the athletic department. 

4.  Certain sports will never be a revenue sport (golf, rowing, etc.) for many different reasons.

5.  Wrestling is a non-revenue sport.  Can it be a revenue sport?  Almost certainly not.

In terms of average wrestling home attendance in 2016-17 you have:  1) Iowa (9,860), 2) Penn State (7,833), 3) Ohio State (5,880), 4) Oklahoma State (5,041), 5) Rutgers (4,706), 6) Iowa State (3,280), and 7) Minnesota (2,715) and everyone else is below 2,000.  Wisconsin sits at 20th at 955.  In 2016-17 Wisconsin spent $287,567 on the wrestling program.  (https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details) Most of that is in coaches salaries.  With 5 home duals in 2016-17 at 955 per dual we had a total attendance of 4,775.  Tickets cost $5 adult and $2 kid and senior.  So let's even say every attendee is an adult.  At $5 per ticket we would bring in a whopping $23,875 in ticket revenue.  My guess is the average price is closer to $3 than $5.  Iowa charges between $8-$12.  So even if we could charge what Iowa does we would still only pull in $57,300 at best.  There is some minimal periphery revenue from donors as well.  You can see the issue here.  We are a net loser of around $250k to the athletic department.  Even tripling our attendance and increasing our ticket prices wouldn't get us there.  And if you bring in another coach that would cost us more?  More in the red.  With an athletic department that is in the black but only by $1.5M and you do the math on how much they want to increase the cost of one sport that has little ability to increase it's revenue.

6.  What is the quality of return for the cost?  In other words, is it worth the additional cost for whatever would be gained?

Additional questions...

7.  What is the popularity of the sport of wrestling compared to other sports?  In other words, is there a base from which to pull from to make wrestling a revenue sport or MORE self-sustaining than it currently is?  Iowa drew 42,000 fans to a wrestling match on their football field against Oklahoma State.  We drew in only 1,873 for our dual vs. Penn St, the top team in the nation.  Even as a special event would we have drawn in 10,000?

8.  What is the in-state participation and quality of the sport?  How many post-secondary institutions offer wrestling?  I can tell you, for the number of high school wrestlers in Wisconsin, we have a high number of post-secondary options in-state...13 I believe.  We all know the quality just in terms of NCAA qualifiers from WI.

9.  What is the geographic pool from which to recruit from?  The more quality wrestlers closer to Madison the better.

10.  What are our selling points to recruit out-of-state to Wisconsin for wrestling specifically?  Conference?  Facilities?  Coaches?  Competition?  Weather?  Academics?  Etc.

Within the sport there are some things that can't change and some things that can.  We can't change geography for example.  We can't change our conference.  Can we improve the quality of wrestling in the state?  Yes, but that takes time.  Can we make people more interested in wrestling?  Sure, but it's going to be a process and needs to be strategic.  In my mind it happens at the local level within the state of Wisconsin.  Has Barry Davis done enough to change the circumstances in the state that can be impacted such as interest and participation in wrestling?  Are the circumstances self-inflicted over 20+ years?  I don't know enough to make that determination.

So this is WAY more complex than "let's replace Barry Davis because the results aren't what we want".  We as wrestling fans want the best.  It's OUR passion.  But as in a marriage, what I value isn't necessarily what my wife values.  What I enjoy to do isn't necessarily what she enjoys to do.  If I had my way and thought about nothing else but myself I can tell you the way I'd manage our family's finances would not be what is best for the whole family.  Get where I'm going with this?

Overall, Barry Alvarez must feel like we get a pretty good return for the investment made.  If we're going to be in the negative let's be in the negative minimally so and be competitive at the same time.  There is no fast and easy answer to how we get better as a program, but change for the sake of change is "the grass is greener on the other side" stuff.  I think the program can get better, but is it worth the cost?"

That may be one of most honest analytical posts I have ever seen on this forum.

The only thing I might disagree with is it can be a selfsustaining sport but it takes booster club money to do so.

One thing that always amazes me is that people come out of the wood work to support Mr Davis NOW. He is stepping down then you all step up and come out of the woodwork. Where were you during his tenure or time as coach. this is just like any School sport you hear crickets until and only until a school board decides to cut it then all this outrage and emotion. I really have a hard time jumping on the bandwagon with people who are not proactive.

The UW program is held back in a lot of areas by the administration.   THIS is the main reason I think we need a guy like Askren.  We need a guy that is going to get in there and demand and push for changes and make the most out of every inch given.   Davis and Alvarez were close friends and just had the program coasting along.  Someone brought up Hellickson and the fact that he left.  That tells you everything about the UW program.

This new hire will tell us everything about what Alvarez cares about this program and if he is willing to go for something.  I do believe that Alvarez may have been and still is the biggest problem in holding back the wrestling program and he is not leaving!

Quote from: rv84 on March 05, 2018, 07:43:44 PM

Quote from: AZKing on March 05, 2018, 03:38:41 PM
Sorry but D3 and D2 WIAA state champs no matter how many times just don't cut it at the next level.

Rick Lawinger,Ron Jeidy,Jim Haines.Matt Hanutke,Tyler Turner,Dennis Limmex,Ralph Liegel,Todd Seiler, Kyle Richards,Mark Schmitz,Gene Spellman,Ryan Lord,Terry Manning.Tim Hartung,Garret Lowney,Cole Konrad and the Hull brothers of Evansville.My 1 minute timer just beep thats all the little guys I could come up whith in 1 Minute       

Alex Dieringer should be added to the list.  Port Washington was D2 one of his years which is notable considering that was the only year he didn't win state.

Quote from: ramjet on March 06, 2018, 06:59:23 AM
That may be one of most honest analytical posts I have ever seen on this forum.

The only thing I might disagree with is it can be a selfsustaining sport but it takes booster club money to do so.

One thing that always amazes me is that people come out of the wood work to support Mr Davis NOW. He is stepping down then you all step up and come out of the woodwork. Where were you during his tenure or time as coach. this is just like any School sport you hear crickets until and only until a school board decides to cut it then all this outrage and emotion. I really have a hard time jumping on the bandwagon with people who are not proactive.

Getting propped up by donors, to me, is not self-sustaining.

Also, please don't confuse my post as being supportive of Coach Davis necessarily, but I am certainly more understanding of the big picture outside wrestling in the athletic department than maybe some others are.  I am hoping that we can make a splash with Ben Askren.  I believe it will pay off in spades.  Sometimes if you build it they will come.  Other times, like volleyball, if they come you have to build it (see second level Fieldhouse renovation).  I think Ben could do the latter in a way Barry, or anyone else on the current staff, can or could.  But that's just my eval from the cheap seats.  We'll find out in the next month or so which direction we're headed.

+1

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 06, 2018, 07:56:30 AM

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 06, 2018, 06:59:51 AM
The UW program is held back in a lot of areas by the administration.   THIS is the main reason I think we need a guy like Askren.  We need a guy that is going to get in there and demand and push for changes and make the most out of every inch given.   Davis and Alvarez were close friends and just had the program coasting along.  Someone brought up Hellickson and the fact that he left.  That tells you everything about the UW program.

This new hire will tell us everything about what Alvarez cares about this program and if he is willing to go for something.  I do believe that Alvarez may have been and still is the biggest problem in holding back the wrestling program and he is not leaving!

Are there any other scapegoats we'd like to brainstorm before getting to the fact that all of these "fans," who feel entitled to a Top 5 rather than a Top 15 team, refuse to show up and actually support the team?

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 06, 2018, 07:56:30 AM
Are there any other scapegoats we'd like to brainstorm before getting to the fact that all of these "fans," who feel entitled to a Top 5 rather than a Top 15 team, refuse to show up and actually support the team?

If you are offering to pay for my plane ticket every match please feel free to offer.  I'll be there for every match!

I think he was referring more to in-state "fans".

I take my kids to all kinds of Badger events.  We have seen basketball, football, hockey, volleyball, softball, tennis, and volleyball.

After going to wrestling my kids said it was so boring.  When I am trying to hook them on wrestling then it is not the best thing to take them to.

My oldest has seen a dual at Minnesota also and that was different and better.

You need a coach with a vision to make it an event and promote it to get fans in the seats.  I am a wrestling guy but I can't come when the rest of the family does not understand all of wrestling and thinks it is boring.  I wonder who could change that?

Who could go out and raise money for the program?  Who could go out and market the program in new ways?

The new coach is going to have to have the energy to do it on his own because UW is not going to help much!

Quote from: MNbadger on March 06, 2018, 08:09:51 AM
I think he was referring more to in-state "fans".

I am in-state, but I am quite a distance from Madison.

You're not understanding fandom.  You will always have your diehards...in Wisconsin there are fewer of those than, say, Iowa.  Look at Badger Football prior to Alvarez or the "Faithful 5000" for basketball in the 70's and 80's.  We had trouble filling seats but had those core diehard fans.  This is the same for pretty much any sports team in any sport.  Did volleyball have people clamoring for seats when Sheffield came on board?  Nope.  Success generates interest.  You can complain about those outside the "faithful" group or you try to understand why people aren't coming and change it.  What can we do to change the casual fan to become a diehard.  Are there more diehards for our football or basketball programs than there used to be?  Absolutely!  Wrestling isn't going to become a better option than something else people could do on a given day until there is a reason to come.  Right now, people obviously don't feel coming to a wrestling dual is a better option than something else they could do.  And the coach that is in place has had 25 years to do something about it.  If we stay status quo and hire from within expect nothing to change.  Those who are on staff have come on board the last 6-7 years.  Nothing has changed since then.  We need to look outside the program.

We need a coach to bring in athletes and teach them to market themselves and the program and are willing to do it.  Again the team and program is going to have to do it on their own.

A minute percentage of high school wrestlers and their families can name one badger wrestler.  So who are they going to travel to Madison to see?

The new coach as well as the team needs to connect with fans.  Tournaments/duals are the best way especially locally.  Send coaches and athletes out in full badger wrestling gear and bring bucky along and show up at duals and tournaments. 

I still think the UW program should ask every youth tournament in the state to raise their entry fee by $1 and then donate that $1/wrestler to the UW wrestling program.  Instead of or in addition to buying a USA card to join USA wrestling, there should be a badger wrestling card for maybe $20 where every kid gets a free ticket to dual, a t-shirt, a poster, and gets a photo/autograph with a badger wrestler.

Volleyball coach actually has players out delivering the season tickets to some homes.

I do believe Askren would have unlimited ideas and would be willing to try just about anything

I think we should try to hire Cael Sanderson away from Penn State.   Look what he has done for their program.

whoever they give the job to, I hope he changes the Cheerleader P.A announcer at home matches.  It drives me crazy.

Quote from: leg turk on March 06, 2018, 09:20:06 AM
whoever they give the job to, I hope he changes the Cheerleader P.A announcer at home matches.  It drives me crazy.

Whoever they give the job to, I hope he KEEPS the Cheerleader PA announcer at home matches. I love it.

After reading all these posts and reflecting on comments about Barry and UW Wrestling over the years, it strikes me that we are a bit confused about this topic.  By that, I mean that too many of us have equated a desire for a more competitive program and systemic failure within the current program.  Given Wisconsin's national rankings and individual performances over the years, it is obvious that the team has not been a total failure during the Barry years.  It doesn't have to be, in order for us to aspire to a much higher success level.  Honestly, I think the biggest challenge facing UW Wrestling is administrative neglect, due to its low priority compared to football and basketball.  I hope that this latest development is indicative of Alvarez looking to invest more in the program, rather than just changing coaches and repeating the same neglectful pattern.  

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 06, 2018, 09:46:50 AM
WWO Badger "Fans"
--To The Administration:

"We need you to triple the budget for wrestling."
"We need you to hire the best up-and-coming coach."

--To The Coach:

"We need you to get all the best in-state talent."
"To the extent that in-state isn't good enough, we need you to get out-of-state talent."
"We need to you to NEVER lose to Michigan State, Indiana, Maryland, Purdue, Rutgers, or Northwestern, even in their best years."
"We need you to be as good or better than Minnesota, Nebraska, Michigan, and Illinois, regularly."
"We need to beat Penn State, Ohio State, and Iowa, at least sometimes."
"We need to be better than 6th in the Big Tens."
"We need to be better than 10th in the NCAA Tournament."

The Wisconsin Administration and Coaching Staff
--To the "Fans":

"We need you to show up."

WWO Badger "Fans"
--To The Administration & Coaching Staff:

"In regard to that, we actually have more we need of you..."

If my child took that little responsibility for his actions, he'd be punished.

I am not sure I understand your point.  Are you really blaming the fans?  Are you blaming fans for not spending their money and time on something that has not excited them to make that commitment?  Maybe the next staff has to look outside the wrestling room also with energy and figure out how to interact with fans by marketing to them and keeping them informed.

A business can't blame customers for not liking their product. I know UW wrestling isn't a business; but they are our only D1 program in wrestling in WI , and fans want to boost wrestling in the whole state, and think a boost at UW would help drive some of that action

Quote from: imnofish on March 06, 2018, 09:50:38 AM
After reading all these posts and reflecting on comments about Barry and UW Wrestling over the years, it strikes me that we are a bit confused about this topic.  By that, I mean that too many of us have equated a desire for a more competitive program and systemic failure within the current program.  Given Wisconsin's national rankings and individual performances over the years, it is obvious that the team has not been a total failure during the Barry years.  It doesn't have to be, in order for us to aspire to a much higher success level.  Honestly, I think the biggest challenge facing UW Wrestling is administrative neglect, due to its low priority compared to football and basketball.  I hope that this latest development is indicative of Alvarez looking to invest more in the program, rather than just changing coaches and repeating the same neglectful pattern.  

Agreed that it was and maybe still is the UW Admin holding the development back and if you listen to those inside, there were many specific items that were being held back. That said, most of those fences have been removed from my following of primarily what Hammen would expound on. Number of athletes in the room and number of Assistant Coaches (paid or not paid) in the room.

The one thing that I don't think is getting enough attention is the Academic expectations placed on the non-revenue sports like wrestling.  I had a chance to speak with Ryan Morningstar at a camp in Waunakee during his brief time as an Asst for UW.  He said that was the biggest obstacle he faced in recruiting.  The wrestling program was expected to bring in Athletes that would excel in the classroom.  We must remember that the Non-Revenue sports are expected to prop up the overall athletic GPA.   I think often the perception is we missed on certain guys when the reality is they would not have been accepted. 

Quote from: 1Iota on March 06, 2018, 10:34:51 AM
The one thing that I don't think is getting enough attention is the Academic expectations placed on the non-revenue sports like wrestling.  I had a chance to speak with Ryan Morningstar at a camp in Waunakee during his brief time as an Asst for UW.  He said that was the biggest obstacle he faced in recruiting.  The wrestling program was expected to bring in Athletes that would excel in the classroom.  We must remember that the Non-Revenue sports are expected to prop up the overall athletic GPA.   I think often the perception is we missed on certain guys when the reality is they would not have been accepted. 

There are plenty of smart wrestlers and this is not just an issue at UW.  In all honesty I don't think our recruiting has ever been that bad.  Davis landed plenty of recruits.  I think he was decent in that area. 

Do we know if this decision was made by Davis? Was it his choice to resign? I just don't think Alvarez would force BD out after all these years of status quo. If it was Alvarez that made the decision, then I don't think the replacement would come from the current staff.

Quote from: Houndhead on March 06, 2018, 10:44:24 AM
Do we know if this decision was made by Davis? Was it his choice to resign? I just don't think Alvarez would force BD out after all these years of status quo. If it was Alvarez that made the decision, then I don't think the replacement would come from the current staff.

He was definitely forced out.  He said he had a meeting with Alvarez & it was decided he would resign.  That is not how it would have unfolded if this was something Barry D was thinking about for some time.  Also the reaction of the team & Parents tells you that this was not Barry D's decision. 

Quote from: 1Iota on March 06, 2018, 10:34:51 AM
The one thing that I don't think is getting enough attention is the Academic expectations placed on the non-revenue sports like wrestling.  I had a chance to speak with Ryan Morningstar at a camp in Waunakee during his brief time as an Asst for UW.  He said that was the biggest obstacle he faced in recruiting.  The wrestling program was expected to bring in Athletes that would excel in the classroom.  We must remember that the Non-Revenue sports are expected to prop up the overall athletic GPA.   I think often the perception is we missed on certain guys when the reality is they would not have been accepted. 

The academic requirements can be used as a recruiting tool.  Rob Koll does a great job recruiting at an IVY league school with no scholarships.  A lot of his "sell" is the career path for student athletes graduating from Cornell.  Michigan is another great example of a university with higher academic requirements than UW and lands great recruits.

Football-  What changed the program and brought in more fans?   A new coach and success
Basketball- What changed the program and brought in more fans?  A new coach and success
Volleyball- What changed the program and brought in more fans?  A new coach and success.
Hockey- Just made a big coaching change- Attendance has gone up.
Women's hockey- coach built program and now they have their own arena
Women's basketball- Can't seem to find the right coach and no fans are showing up. But they have tried different coaches
Men's Soccer- being revived with local coach that turned that program into Big Ten Champs

Other non-revenue sports like tennis have changed coaches.

Seems that a new coach and success leads to fans which leads to more investment by the university.

Quote from: 1Iota on March 06, 2018, 11:02:42 AM

Quote from: Houndhead on March 06, 2018, 10:44:24 AM
Do we know if this decision was made by Davis? Was it his choice to resign? I just don't think Alvarez would force BD out after all these years of status quo. If it was Alvarez that made the decision, then I don't think the replacement would come from the current staff.

He was definitely forced out.  He said he had a meeting with Alvarez & it was decided he would resign.  That is not how it would have unfolded if this was something Barry D was thinking about for some time.  Also the reaction of the team & Parents tells you that this was not Barry D's decision. 

This tells me the administration may have changed the way they view the wrestling program and may be willing to invest more into it.

"He was definitely forced out.  He said he had a meeting with Alvarez & it was decided he would resign.  That is not how it would have unfolded if this was something Barry D was thinking about for some time.  Also the reaction of the team & Parents tells you that this was not Barry D's decision."

Hmmm, this is curious because if true it begs the question why now? especially when BD was probably going to retire in at least two seasons anyway. You're just now concerned about the state of the program UWAD? You should meet all the fans who have been "concerned" about it for the past 20 years.

But if true, does this mean UW serious about competing at a higher level of wrestling i.e. more resources invested and fewer administrative restrictions on the program? If so, then maybe you can attract someone to coach who is a program builder or who can "take it to the next level" who already is a head coach. But as I said, they're going to want a lot more than $100,000 in salary. Again, are they serious? We're going to find out. But I will say if they forced out BD after 26 years (and there's a difference between resignation and retirement which I thought curious as well in yesterday's official statement) and hire one of the assistants with no change as to how the program is structured and set up, then they've done a big injustice to BD who had to coach with those limitations for so long. It could be BD couldn't make up his mind as to how long he wanted to coach and BA made it up for him, but still as I and many have changing coaches does not guarantee changed results if they still have one-hand tied behind their backs.

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 06, 2018, 10:42:08 AM

There are plenty of smart wrestlers and this is not just an issue at UW.  In all honesty I don't think our recruiting has ever been that bad.  Davis landed plenty of recruits.  I think he was decent in that area.  

A good portion of future national champs and high AAs are top 15 nationally ranked recruits (I am talking all weights, not individual weight rankings).  Davis very rarely landed this type of recruit.  Most were in the 20 to 75 range (Jordan, Hillger, Taylor, Medberry, Christensen, Robertson, Wicks, etc.)

Quote from: wrestlemania on March 06, 2018, 11:33:57 AM
"He was definitely forced out.  He said he had a meeting with Alvarez & it was decided he would resign.  That is not how it would have unfolded if this was something Barry D was thinking about for some time.  Also the reaction of the team & Parents tells you that this was not Barry D's decision."

Hmmm, this is curious because if true it begs the question why now? especially when BD was probably going to retire in at least two seasons anyway. You're just now concerned about the state of the program UWAD? You should meet all the fans who have been "concerned" about it for the past 20 years.

But if true, does this mean UW serious about competing at a higher level of wrestling i.e. more resources invested and fewer administrative restrictions on the program? If so, then maybe you can attract someone to coach who is a program builder or who can "take it to the next level" who already is a head coach. But as I said, they're going to want a lot more than $100,000 in salary. Again, are they serious? We're going to find out. But I will say if they forced out BD after 26 years (and there's a difference between resignation and retirement which I thought curious as well in yesterday's official statement) and hire one of the assistants with no change as to how the program is structured and set up, then they've done a big injustice to BD who had to coach with those limitations for so long. It could be BD couldn't make up his mind as to how long he wanted to coach and BA made it up for him, but still as I and many have changing coaches does not guarantee changed results if they still have one-hand tied behind their backs.

Maybe Davis wasn't planning on retiring in 2 years. He is only 56 years old. He stated recently that his favorite moment as a coach is when he gets his contract renewed.

Quote from: wrestlemania on March 06, 2018, 11:33:57 AM
"He was definitely forced out.  He said he had a meeting with Alvarez & it was decided he would resign.  That is not how it would have unfolded if this was something Barry D was thinking about for some time.  Also the reaction of the team & Parents tells you that this was not Barry D's decision."

Hmmm, this is curious because if true it begs the question why now? especially when BD was probably going to retire in at least two seasons anyway. You're just now concerned about the state of the program UWAD? You should meet all the fans who have been "concerned" about it for the past 20 years.

But if true, does this mean UW serious about competing at a higher level of wrestling i.e. more resources invested and fewer administrative restrictions on the program? If so, then maybe you can attract someone to coach who is a program builder or who can "take it to the next level" who already is a head coach. But as I said, they're going to want a lot more than $100,000 in salary. Again, are they serious? We're going to find out. But I will say if they forced out BD after 26 years (and there's a difference between resignation and retirement which I thought curious as well in yesterday's official statement) and hire one of the assistants with no change as to how the program is structured and set up, then they've done a big injustice to BD who had to coach with those limitations for so long. It could be BD couldn't make up his mind as to how long he wanted to coach and BA made it up for him, but still as I and many have changing coaches does not guarantee changed results if they still have one-hand tied behind their backs.

It said on the post the minimum salary would be $120,000. So depending on who we get it could be more.

Quote from: mkm13 on March 06, 2018, 11:38:50 AM

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 06, 2018, 10:42:08 AM

There are plenty of smart wrestlers and this is not just an issue at UW.  In all honesty I don't think our recruiting has ever been that bad.  Davis landed plenty of recruits.  I think he was decent in that area.  

A good portion of future national champs and high AAs are top 15 nationally ranked recruits (I am talking all weights, not individual weight rankings).  Davis very rarely landed this type of recruit.  Most were in the 20 to 75 range (Jordan, Hillger, Taylor, Medberry, Christensen, Robertson, Wicks, etc.)

I realize that but I just don't think we are going to land those top recruits very often with any coach.  Just like football does not land the top recruits.  Need a coach that can go higher with less recruits.  A difficult proposition

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 06, 2018, 12:31:52 PM
Need a coach that can go higher with less recruits.  A difficult proposition

That will be very difficult.  Part of the reason Askren is appealing is he is so good at promoting himself and I think a lot of younger athletes look up to him.  I think he would be able to bring in a few more high level recruits compared to what we have seen in the past.

IMO, if the new staff brings in the same level of recruits, there will still be a lot of people complaining about the results.

I just think that some coaches are better at identifying which wrestlers will succeed collegiately.  Many Fargo placewinners do not succeed.  I thought Breske was going to step in and compete to be an AA right away.  There truly is a next level of recruits with guys that can be AA's as freshman.

I also think some coaches are better than others at managing their 9.9 scholarships.  Have to be quite the GM with that salary cap.

Askren is also boosted by his college coach that could take in lesser recruits and make them shine. Sure did  a fine job with many WI wrestlers.

It turns out it was the loss to Purdue that got Barry Alvarez to come in and get Barry to clean out his desk.

Quote from: billymurphy on March 06, 2018, 04:33:18 PM
It turns out it was the loss to Purdue that got Barry Alvarez to come in and get Barry to clean out his desk.

How do you know that?

Quote from: wrastle63 on March 05, 2018, 07:50:03 PM
Ringing endorsement for Barry Davis is go look at Wick's mom twitter feed.

I did not get to see the twit but what if this cost's the Badgers the Wick's; Trent H; others that came here due to character and the wrestling. Will the haters just shift their hate to the new coach or to BA?

My hope is that BA hires someone with great character and elevates the team

Dad 2 5, You keep referring to those of use that wanted a change in head coaches as "Barry Haters"

"Will the haters just shift their hate to the new coach or to BA?"

First of all there was never any hate. I met Barry Davis years ago and have always admired him as a person. He has always done a good job of producing excellent young men that go thru his program. He is very well thought of by most of his former wrestlers as a person. He is very well thought of by some of his former wrestlers as a coach.  Has he been good for the UW program, I would say yes, overall. Has he produced the results that many people are hoping for, NO. He's kinda like Cincinnati Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis. A nice guy that is liked by his players but has never won a playoff game in all his years there.
I was ringside during the Donny debacle and what Barry Davis and Barry Alvarez did was shameful. Obviously their word wasn't worth anything. That's all water over the dam but I will never forgive them.
Hopefully UW will hire someone that will move the program into the right direction. I for one will start to attend more duals and events for UW Wrestling and financially support the program to the extent that I am able.
Good Luck to Barry Davis and his family in the future

The Iowa Forum has an interesting thread on this as well.  They are now talking about how they can get some of the top WI wrestlers to transfer.

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/barry-davis.224640/ (https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/barry-davis.224640/)

Quote from: Harris on March 06, 2018, 08:02:29 PM
The Iowa Forum has an interesting thread on this as well.  They are now talking about how they can get some of the top WI wrestlers to transfer.

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/barry-davis.224640/ (https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/barry-davis.224640/)

An Iowa forum poster asked a good question, in the last 7 years has Mr Askren ever tourned out a D1 All American? Top level high school coaches can turn out college ready prospects with only 4 years of coaching.

Does placing a free thinker, "free Talker", entrepreneur, with a slightly narcissistic personality in a tight corporate structure ever work? Mr Askren has a reputation as a man that doesn't work well with others which works as a business owner, but will not work as a dept head of a dept that will never produce a profit. I don't feel Mr Askren has the subservient and team oriented personality required to work for Mr Alvarez, especially for less income then he most likely is currently making.
Am I missing something ??

He had D2/D3 champs in Newman and Becker. I know Crone was an AWA guy.

Quote from: wrastle63 on March 07, 2018, 06:40:52 AM
He had D2/D3 champs in Newman and Becker. I know Crone was an AWA guy.

So No?

Realbuto
Darmestat- he attended Askren camps for years.

Change is never easy,but the attitude of those affected by said change is what will determine if it fails or flourishes.

 Doug Tiedt, has also offered to field questions or comments.  He can be reached at 608-516-2300 or dat@athletics.wisc.edu      I sent him my thoughts, as we all should  :)

Quote from: Brett Favre on March 06, 2018, 07:34:06 PM
Dad 2 5, You keep referring to those of use that wanted a change in head coaches as "Barry Haters"

"Will the haters just shift their hate to the new coach or to BA?"

First of all there was never any hate. I met Barry Davis years ago and have always admired him as a person. He has always done a good job of producing excellent young men that go thru his program. He is very well thought of by most of his former wrestlers as a person. He is very well thought of by some of his former wrestlers as a coach.  Has he been good for the UW program, I would say yes, overall. Has he produced the results that many people are hoping for, NO. He's kinda like Cincinnati Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis. A nice guy that is liked by his players but has never won a playoff game in all his years there.
I was ringside during the Donny debacle and what Barry Davis and Barry Alvarez did was shameful. Obviously their word wasn't worth anything. That's all water over the dam but I will never forgive them.
Hopefully UW will hire someone that will move the program into the right direction. I for one will start to attend more duals and events for UW Wrestling and financially support the program to the extent that I am able.
Good Luck to Barry Davis and his family in the future

Well said.

Darmestat also participated in Mitch Clark's "Take Top" camps.

But you can say the top wrestlers are then attracted to Askren even after they have had success to make them better?

Isn't that just as good?  Don't we want the best wrestlers to want to wrestle for the next head coach

Quote from: factfinder on March 07, 2018, 06:39:36 AM

Quote from: Harris on March 06, 2018, 08:02:29 PM
The Iowa Forum has an interesting thread on this as well.  They are now talking about how they can get some of the top WI wrestlers to transfer.

https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/barry-davis.224640/ (https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/barry-davis.224640/)

An Iowa forum poster asked a good question, in the last 7 years has Mr Askren ever tourned out a D1 All American? Top level high school coaches can turn out college ready prospects with only 4 years of coaching.

Does placing a free thinker, "free Talker", entrepreneur, with a slightly narcissistic personality in a tight corporate structure ever work? Mr Askren has a reputation as a man that doesn't work well with others which works as a business owner, but will not work as a dept head of a dept that will never produce a profit. I don't feel Mr Askren has the subservient and team oriented personality required to work for Mr Alvarez, especially for less income then he most likely is currently making.
Am I missing something ??

You do realize how arrogant Barry Alvarez was when he came into Wisconsin to change the culture right?  In his first press conference he made an unscripted (by his admission) comment telling everyone to get their season tickets early.  It was with that confidence and the bravado he and his coaching staff brought with them that made the situation of our current football program and athletic department a reality.

You think the powers that be were completely gung ho about Barry pushing to make the change to the motion W....for the entire university athletics department?  Do you think Barry had to push people out of their comfort zone for Camp Randall renovations and other facility upgrades?  I could go on and on.  In many ways, Askren and Alvarez are very similar.

People who don't want change cling to the status quo for dear life.  It is not surprising the attitudes of those who don't want Askren because he's going to push people out of their comfort zone.  People don't like being pushed out of their comfort zone.  It's this exact reason I feel Askren is the right person for the job.

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 08:26:14 AM

Quote from: factfinder on March 07, 2018, 06:39:36 AM
Does placing a free thinker, "free Talker", entrepreneur, with a slightly narcissistic personality in a tight corporate structure ever work? Mr Askren has a reputation as a man that doesn't work well with others which works as a business owner, but will not work as a dept head of a dept that will never produce a profit. I don't feel Mr Askren has the subservient and team oriented personality required to work for Mr Alvarez, especially for less income then he most likely is currently making.
Am I missing something ??

"Slightly"  ;D - I've never seen anyone retweet half as many compliments on Twitter as he does. Straight out of the Ron Burgandy playbook:

"HEY EVERYONE!! COME AND SEE HOW GOOD I LOOK!!"

https://youtu.be/o7cSQQgSeDA?t=1

Quote from: factfinder on March 07, 2018, 06:39:36 AM
An Iowa forum poster asked a good question, in the last 7 years has Mr Askren ever tourned out a D1 All American? Top level high school coaches can turn out college ready prospects with only 4 years of coaching.

Anyway, with AWA, there's a tricky chicken or the egg thing too. Without question, many of the best wrestlers I saw a couple weekends ago at state were affiliated with AWA, but does correlation mean causation? Take Bianchi & Bosman, both of whom AWA is taking credit. They'd been in the finals, what, two times(?) before stepping foot on an Askren mat. I believe the same discussion can be had about Krattiger and Breske before that. How much is AWA making the wrestler and how much is AWA's reputation luring in already great wrestlers to pad their resume?

I'm not saying AWA adds nothing. Far from it. I just think if we're taking a magnifying glass to Ben's success at AWA, sorting through this question feels central to it.

You really think Askren is taking credit?  All they are doing is acknowledging that they attend AWA.  Some of you have a good amount of sand in your swimsuit.  The more people complain like this the more I like Askren as the hire because it means he's a big change from what we have now, which is exactly what we need.

With the comparison to the young Alvarez you have me believing that maybe Alvarez would hire Ben because I have had serious doubts that he ever would.

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 07, 2018, 09:09:30 AM
With the comparison to the young Alvarez you have me believing that maybe Alvarez would hire Ben because I have had serious doubts that he ever would.

I have absolutely zero inside information at all, but I would think Alvarez would find Askren's confidence intriguing and would chuckle at it.  "Hmm, I remember an up and coming coach like that once."  If you think he's scared off by Askren I think you've got another thing coming.

And anyone who has ever listened to Askren can't say that he isn't extremely thoughtful, well read, and talented.  He's not just some opinion factory.  Far from it.  He's just a guy who calls it like he sees it at times and such honesty isn't something people like hearing.

Alvarez was an arrogant bad mo fo when he came to WI.  He had to be to change the face of the program.  He wasn't coming here to be the head coach, he came here to take us to Rose Bowls and compete for national championships.

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 09:16:02 AM

Quote from: Brett Favre on March 06, 2018, 07:34:06 PM
Dad 2 5, You keep referring to those of use that wanted a change in head coaches as "Barry Haters"

"Will the haters just shift their hate to the new coach or to BA?"

First of all there was never any hate.

For real, Dad 2 5, why would you classify Brett Favre as a "Barry Hater"? There's certainly no evidence to support that ...

Quote from: Brett Favre on March 03, 2018, 08:14:35 PM
Yea, now in 8th. Time for a lifetime contract for Barry. Overachievers :

Quote from: Brett Favre on March 03, 2018, 07:10:37 PM
WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR

Quote from: Brett Favre on March 03, 2018, 06:04:18 PM
Wisconsin is so bad that when they scroll the team scores across the bottom of the screen on flo that Wisconsin doesn't even show up, they only show the top ten
Barry, please resign tomorrow

Quote from: Brett Favre on February 21, 2018, 07:59:28 AM
WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR  ;D

Quote from: Brett Favre on February 17, 2018, 07:59:05 AM
WHERE ARE ALL THE BARRY DAVIS LOVERS

Quote from: Brett Favre on February 06, 2018, 07:46:06 AM
If you think UW is good now, wait till next year.

Quote from: Brett Favre on February 01, 2018, 08:33:13 PM
Barry couldn't hold Donny's jockstrap. Davis had a better international career but is nowhere near the coach Pritzlaff is.

Quote from: Brett Favre on February 01, 2018, 08:20:31 PM
Anyone that thinks Barry is a good coach because Hammen says so needs to refine their thinking. BD should have been fired years ago

Quote from: Brett Favre on January 01, 2018, 10:23:48 AM
Looks like the "what if" barry backers are alive and well. When are you guys going to come to realize that BD is the common denominator in the lack of success for the badgers.
Drain the swamp

Quote from: Brett Favre on December 30, 2017, 06:59:24 AM
I hope you Barry lovers don't forget to buy him flowers and chocolate for Valentine's day

Quote from: Brett Favre on July 17, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
More quality kids that wont improve in their college career. Sad but that's the Barry Davis way

Quote from: Brett Favre on March 08, 2017, 04:08:56 PM
UW wrestlers are better off if BD is in the locker room

That's just in the last calendar year.

Naw, Brett was just supporting the program. To Brett, hate talk = respect. Little twisted that way. I bet we all know "that guy."

FoldEmUp:
Yes, Alvarez took the Badgers to multiple Rose Bowls - agreed.
Competed for National Championships? - NO

Please put the Alvarez koolaid down.
Thanks.

Alvarez was EXTREMELY (still is) confident and cocky when he came to Wisconsin.  Worked out pretty well for us...

In the famous words of Joe Panos in 1993 "Why Not Wisconsin??'

I feel like many of the Badger fans have a million reason why Wisconsin can't and never will compete with the best; budget restrictions, scholarship restrictions, academic restrictions, coaching salary restrictions, state of Wisconsin lack of wrestling talent, lack of good facilities blah blah blah."

Don't you think Alvarez had a lot working against him when he came to Wisconsin in 1989?  Alot of reasons why Wisconsin football should never compete with the big boys?

I want a Coach who is going to say "Why not Wisconsin" and truly believes Wisconsin can compete with Penn State and Iowa.  I believe Askren is that person.

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 09:56:50 AM

Quote from: BuckyMatt on March 07, 2018, 09:51:10 AM
Alvarez was EXTREMELY (still is) confident and cocky when he came to Wisconsin.  Worked out pretty well for us...

In the famous words of Joe Panos in 1993 "Why Not Wisconsin??'

I feel like many of the Badger fans have a million reason why Wisconsin can't and never will compete with the best; budget restrictions, scholarship restrictions, academic restrictions, coaching salary restrictions, state of Wisconsin lack of wrestling talent, lack of good facilities blah blah blah."

Don't you think Alvarez had a lot working against him when he came to Wisconsin in 1989?  Alot of reasons why Wisconsin football should never compete with the big boys?

I want a Coach who is going to say "Why not Wisconsin" and truly believes Wisconsin can compete with Penn State and Iowa.  I believe Askren is that person.

Matt, not to conflict anything you're saying, but I think it's worth noting that to this day, the Badger Football program isn't in that different of a place than the Badger Wrestling program. NOT competing for National Titles, but in the upper-eschelon of the next "tier". If you want to get into the semantics of 15th best program versus 10th, you probably can prove the football squad is in slightly higher esteem.

But, my greater point, is that the Badger Wrestling team is good, but we all want to be excellent, and that many Badger football fans express the same sentiment, to this day.

The B1G in wrestling is comparable to the SEC in football.  To that end, comparing our current football, which I believe has been far closer to competing for national championships than wrestling, program to wrestling is just a tad off.

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 09:56:50 AM

Quote from: BuckyMatt on March 07, 2018, 09:51:10 AM
Alvarez was EXTREMELY (still is) confident and cocky when he came to Wisconsin.  Worked out pretty well for us...

In the famous words of Joe Panos in 1993 "Why Not Wisconsin??'

I feel like many of the Badger fans have a million reason why Wisconsin can't and never will compete with the best; budget restrictions, scholarship restrictions, academic restrictions, coaching salary restrictions, state of Wisconsin lack of wrestling talent, lack of good facilities blah blah blah."

Don't you think Alvarez had a lot working against him when he came to Wisconsin in 1989?  Alot of reasons why Wisconsin football should never compete with the big boys?

I want a Coach who is going to say "Why not Wisconsin" and truly believes Wisconsin can compete with Penn State and Iowa.  I believe Askren is that person.

Matt, not to conflict anything you're saying, but I think it's worth noting that to this day, the Badger Football program isn't in that different of a place than the Badger Wrestling program. NOT competing for National Titles, but in the upper-eschelon of the next "tier". If you want to get into the semantics of 15th best program versus 10th, you probably can prove the football squad is in slightly higher esteem.

But, my greater point, is that the Badger Wrestling team is good, but we all want to be excellent, and that many Badger football fans express the same sentiment, to this day.

Not competing for a National Title? If we beat Ohio State we ARE competing for a national title last year. Our team could arguably be better this year. Think your a little off.

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 10:15:52 AM

Quote from: FoldEmUp on March 07, 2018, 10:06:52 AM
The B1G in wrestling is comparable to the SEC in football.  To that end, comparing our current football, which I believe has been far closer to competing for national championships than wrestling, program to wrestling is just a tad off.

There's no conference in football that comes close to the Big Ten in wrestling. Six of the top ten are in one conference, regularly? That never happens. Conferences just don't work, when comparing wrestling to anything else.

Looking at the national picture though, the Badgers best finish under Davis was 4th ('10), tied for the best in program history. Since Barry Alvarez took over, the same is true for football ('99), with our best final poll placement being 4th.

Let's not be so literal.  My point was that the SEC is far above the other football conferences the way that the B1G is above all the other wrestling conferences.  Not that they were literally exactly the same.

Comparing finishing fourth in the polls in football to finishing fourth at the NCAA's is way off.  The quality of football teams ranked #1-#20 are much closer in talent than the top #1-#20 ranked wrestling teams.  Penn State has ZERO chance of losing to a team outside the top ten.  Teams in the college football playoff this year lost to unranked football teams.

Football is doing much better than wrestling nationally-  If you don't understand that then I don't know what to say.

Truth is that Lou Holtz who was Alvarez's mentor and head coach told Alvarez not to take the UW job and that he would never win there and it would be career suicide.

His arrogance made him take the job and force changes.  Does that always work?  Honestly not often probably.

I just think you have to make a bold choice if you want to try for top 3 in the Big Ten.  You need someone to push UW administration for changes and you need someone that might look attractive to recruits.  Colleges are hiring younger coaches to better relate and communicate with younger athletes and social media

DocWrestling:
I don't care if you get Askren or any other of your dream candidates, Badger wrestling will never be a top 3 finisher in the Big10.  Pipe dreams are one thing, but reality is a whole other.  The lack of in state talent and lack of All-Americans this state produces cannot be argued. 

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 07, 2018, 11:37:53 AM
DocWrestling:
I don't care if you get Askren or any other of your dream candidates, Badger wrestling will never be a top 3 finisher in the Big10.  Pipe dreams are one thing, but reality is a whole other.  The lack of in state talent and lack of All-Americans this state produces cannot be argued. 

Colleges don't recruit just from within their State borders. You get talent from across the land.

Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 07, 2018, 12:30:54 PM
Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

You are correct in that I am highly intelligent. Thanks!

If a great staff is put in place I do believe they would be able to have higher rated recruiting classes than they have in years past. The other schools you mentioned have a head start on future recruits. Which is obvious. Success has a way of changing momentum.

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 07, 2018, 12:30:54 PM
Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

Really?  If you're talking recent history I'll agree with you...but certainly not historically true.

Here are the last five years according to Flo:  5 year cycle: #18, NR, #20, NR, NR

Historically?

2012:  #8 overall behind Iowa, Michigan, and Illinois.  Ahead of the rest.  Including this year what were the previous four years?  #8, #14, #UR, #12

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2012.html
https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031439-2012-recruiting-class-rankings/14106-2012-recruiting-class-rankings

2011:  #14 overall behind Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn St. but ranked right there with Minnesota.  Ahead of Iowa, Michigan and Illinois.

https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031438-2011-recruiting-class-rankings/14105-2011-recruiting-class-rankings

2008:  #4 overall behind Minnesota.  Ahead of everyone else.

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2008.html

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 07, 2018, 12:30:54 PM
Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

10 years ago you wouldn't have mentioned tOSU or PSU on that list and now they are the top dogs by far with practically a dual meet in the BIG 10 finals.

why are we comparing football to wrestling? I thought football had twice as many programs, so ranked 5th in wrestling is like ranked 10th in football. A 17th place finish in nationals is like 34th at football based on teams you have to compete against. Stop with the 4th is the best football has done... that is out of there control, loose 1 game and you might finish 4th but they don't have a good system to determine actual finish in the country. Our football program is much more successful than our wrestling program, not even in the same league. Oh and by the way, we have had 4 coaches in the last 15 years in football, if we finished outside the top 20 for a few years they would not extend a contract

Programs change over time based on coach and tradition.

I see Penn St and Ohio St being the cream of the crop going forward due to their geography with in-state and entire east coast.

Minnesota is in a perilous spot now with coaching change

Iowa has tradition but if they start to falter or change coaches they do not have the in state talent to survive either.

No state has the instate talent other than maybe Penn St or Ohio St.  Illinois is probably 3rd.

Won't be easy to make top 3 in Big Ten but there has been more volatility in NCAA wresting with the top 5 and top 10 than ever before.  Teams have moved in and out.  Unfortunately UW has not been one to move in to top 10. The positive is they really have never fallen out of top 20.  been holding steady

I think you all just need to prepare yourself, and not be surprised or disappointed when Brandvold/Ruschell are named interim coaches for next year, and after the one year on interim basis one of them is the new permanent head coach.  Rumors are running wild that this is exactly what will happen.

so, are you saying that Wisconsin doesn't really produce great college wrestlers?

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 07, 2018, 02:22:57 PM
I think you all just need to prepare yourself, and not be surprised or disappointed when Brandvold/Ruschell are named interim coaches for next year, and after the one year on interim basis one of them is the new permanent head coach.  Rumors are running wild that this is exactly what will happen.

I wonder who would come in then as an assistant? Also would they both come back or just one?

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 02:25:57 PM

Quote from: FoldEmUp on March 07, 2018, 12:52:31 PM

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 07, 2018, 12:30:54 PM
Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

Really?  If you're talking recent history I'll agree with you...but certainly not historically true.

Here are the last five years according to Flo:  5 year cycle: #18, NR, #20, NR, NR

Historically?

2012:  #8 overall behind Iowa, Michigan, and Illinois.  Ahead of the rest.  Including this year what were the previous four years?  #8, #14, #UR, #12

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2012.html
https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031439-2012-recruiting-class-rankings/14106-2012-recruiting-class-rankings

2011:  #14 overall behind Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn St. but ranked right there with Minnesota.  Ahead of Iowa, Michigan and Illinois.

https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031438-2011-recruiting-class-rankings/14105-2011-recruiting-class-rankings

2008:  #4 overall behind Minnesota.  Ahead of everyone else.

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2008.html

These are the classes that Wisconsin got. These are not a reflection of the in-state talent the state of Wisconsin produced. In fact, nearly all the high quality recruits the University has brought in justify those rankings have been out-of-state talents.

J. Thielke #4 (WI)
T. Graff #6 (CO)
A. Howe #11 (IN)
R. Christensen #22 (WA)
H. Ritter #26 (MD)
I. Jordan #27 (OH)
E. Wick #29 (CA)
Z. Wick #32 (CA)
R. Taylor #35 (OH)
R. Robertson #39 (IL)
B. Jordan #48 (OH)
J. Jimenez #50 (IL)
T. Brandvold #61 (WI)
C. Medbury #62 (CO)
E. Stickley #92 (OH)

I realize these guys didn't wrestle at UW but were part of that Thielke class-
McCauley - #1 wasn't he?
Caldwell ranked?
One more kid I think I'm forgetting in that class that chose to wrestle elsewhere, Laux?

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 02:25:57 PM

Quote from: FoldEmUp on March 07, 2018, 12:52:31 PM

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 07, 2018, 12:30:54 PM
Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

Really?  If you're talking recent history I'll agree with you...but certainly not historically true.

Here are the last five years according to Flo:  5 year cycle: #18, NR, #20, NR, NR

Historically?

2012:  #8 overall behind Iowa, Michigan, and Illinois.  Ahead of the rest.  Including this year what were the previous four years?  #8, #14, #UR, #12

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2012.html
https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031439-2012-recruiting-class-rankings/14106-2012-recruiting-class-rankings

2011:  #14 overall behind Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn St. but ranked right there with Minnesota.  Ahead of Iowa, Michigan and Illinois.

https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031438-2011-recruiting-class-rankings/14105-2011-recruiting-class-rankings

2008:  #4 overall behind Minnesota.  Ahead of everyone else.

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2008.html

These are the classes that Wisconsin got. These are not a reflection of the in-state talent the state of Wisconsin produced. In fact, nearly all the high quality recruits the University has brought in justify those rankings have been out-of-state talents.

J. Thielke #4 (WI)
T. Graff #6 (CO)
A. Howe #11 (IN)
R. Christensen #22 (WA)
H. Ritter #26 (MD)
I. Jordan #27 (OH)
E. Wick #29 (CA)
Z. Wick #32 (CA)
R. Taylor #35 (OH)
R. Robertson #39 (IL)
B. Jordan #48 (OH)
J. Jimenez #50 (IL)
T. Brandvold #61 (WI)
C. Medbury #62 (CO)
E. Stickley #92 (OH)

His point wasn't about in-state.  He said we don't have the in-state talent.  Given.  But then he said we can't recruit the same as those other schools.  That's patently false.

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 07, 2018, 02:22:57 PM
I think you all just need to prepare yourself, and not be surprised or disappointed when Brandvold/Ruschell are named interim coaches for next year, and after the one year on interim basis one of them is the new permanent head coach.  Rumors are running wild that this is exactly what will happen.

I'm calling bologna!

There's not a better way to tank the program than to put an interim tag on the next coach.  Try to get recruits to come when you have an interim tag on you when every coach in the nation will point out that Wisconsin can't even tell you if their coach will be back the next year or not.

Barry Alvarez is not that dumb.

OMG, we were jacked up around here with the prospect that McAuley was supposedly coming here.

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 07, 2018, 02:22:57 PM
I think you all just need to prepare yourself, and not be surprised or disappointed when Brandvold/Ruschell are named interim coaches for next year, and after the one year on interim basis one of them is the new permanent head coach.  Rumors are running wild that this is exactly what will happen.

If this happens I will still be excited because they are young and will connect better with recruits.  I just hope they also demand and push for changes from the UW administration.  It has been obvious for years that the present and past wrestlers have connected with the assistants more than with Coach Davis.

I just hope that whoever the new coach is has the guts to demand changes from the administration before they take the job.

There's not a better way to tank the program than to put an interim tag on the next coach.  Try to get recruits to come when you have an interim tag on you when every coach in the nation will point out that Wisconsin can't even tell you if their coach will be back the next year or not. Barry Alvarez is not that dumb.

No kidding. Why would you do that? You name interim head coach if something happens to the head guy just before or during a season not afterwards. Barry Davis is stepping down as head coach after the NCAAs, now they have the opportunity to hire a new coach. It's that simple. The current assistant's can apply for the job. BA will either hire one of them or someone else based on their qualifications and who he feels can do the job. There's no point in hiring someone for just one year and then opening the search all over again.

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 03:20:08 PM

Quote from: FoldEmUp on March 07, 2018, 02:44:23 PM

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 07, 2018, 12:30:54 PM
Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

...

His point wasn't about in-state.  He said we don't have the in-state talent.  Given.  But then he said we can't recruit the same as those other schools.  That's patently false.

I see. You were taking exception with the second half of the statement. That's fair.

I don't like his "never" assertion, as these things can change, but by and large, I agree that we will continue to lose to those schools on the aggregate. That doesn't mean we can't beat them from year to year. I don't believe we generally beat them for the best recruits.

And there was a time when Barry Davis was competitive recruiting as the head coach as I showed...but the result on the mat didn't show that.  I think someone like Ben Askren can recruit on a far greater level than Barry Davis.  IMO, he would put us up there in at least the next level after Penn St and Ohio State.

LOL!   Do you seriously think it is just as hard to be top 20 in wrestling as it is in football?  Don't know what to say if you think wrestling has had the same success as football over past 20 years. 

Football has a lot more going against it than wrestling does.  In football we often wish we could be like the SEC.  Guess what, the Big Ten conference is the SEC on steroids for wrestling.

Football is on par to compete against the Power 5 conferences with 60+ teams on a par with them fighting for top 20.

Wrestling has about 30 teams nationally and that is probably stretching that are on a par with UW

Maybe you could start with Big ten championships or division titles if you just wanted to compare against Big Ten schools.  Ask random fans to name the top 3 or 4 football programs in the Big Ten and most are going to name Wisconsin.  Will that happen with wrestling?

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 03:27:47 PM

(http://i66.tinypic.com/soy4np.png)

I'll point to my previous comment that you can't compare wrestling and football this way because teams 1-20 in wrestling are much further apart in talent than teams 1-20 in football.  A top football team can (this years college playoff for example) lose to unranked football teams.  One of the top 5 wrestling teams losing to an unranked wrestling team is unfathomable.  Penn State has almost no chance of losing to teams ranked outside the top ten much less an unranked team.  So your comparison isn't very valid.  It isn't apples to apples.

Do you really think Alvarez thinks the wrestling program has had the same success as the football program?

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 03:49:48 PM

But, they're still the 20th best team. There are still 18 other teams with a better likelihood to beat the #1 team, in either sport. That's how rankings work.

Anyway, if you can literally look at the data and just not accept it, I'm going echo you. I don't know what to say.

That isn't true at all. The likelihoods aren't the same or really even close to the same.  The mere number of teams means nothing.  It's the quality of those team in relation to the upper echelon that matters.  The #20 ranked wrestling team has .1% chance of beating team #1.  The #20 ranked football team can have close to a 30-40% chance of beating team #1.  I know you don't believe that the difference in those two scenarios doesn't matter.  The football team is worlds, and I mean worlds, ahead of the wrestling team in terms of competitiveness with the top echelon of their sport right now.

A #17 ranking out of 60 football teams is not the same as a #17 ranking out of 30 wrestling teams.

A #17 ranking in hockey does not even make the NCAA tournament and there are more competitive hockey teams than wrestling teams

How many of the 80 div 1 teams even have fully funded 9.9 scholarships?

FB has five major conferences, wrestling has 1.5.

Quote from: FoldEmUp on March 07, 2018, 03:39:04 PM

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 03:27:47 PM

(http://i66.tinypic.com/soy4np.png)

I'll point to my previous comment that you can't compare wrestling and football this way because teams 1-20 in wrestling are much further apart in talent than teams 1-20 in football.  A top football team can (this years college playoff for example) lose to unranked football teams.  One of the top 5 wrestling teams losing to an unranked wrestling team is unfathomable.  Penn State has almost no chance of losing to teams ranked outside the top ten much less an unranked team.  So your comparison isn't very valid.  It isn't apples to apples.

Football has 130 D1 teams.  Wrestling has 76 this year.

So a top 25  (#25) football ranking is top 19% of teams competing in the D1.  Just making the "top 25" equivalent in wrestling is the 15th best team.  So the top 10 football ranking equivalent in wresting is top 6 when you consider the population of teams competing for that spot.

So let me explain it this way.

If there are only ten wrestling teams and you finish last you believe they had a more successful season, regardless of how well you actually performed, than the football team that finishes #20 in the nation just because there are fewer teams between you and the top team?  That's pretty much what you're saying.

But again there are 60 football teams operating on same par as UW.  There are 135 but they don't compete at same level even though they have same amount of scholarships

Wrestling has maybe 30 teams.  14 Big Ten teams and maybe 16 others than operate or actually compete with UW and that might be generous.  I hope we don't consider South dakota st or Wyoming on the same level.

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 07, 2018, 04:56:33 PM
But again there are 60 football teams operating on same par as UW.  There are 135 but they don't compete at same level even though they have same amount of scholarships

Wrestling has maybe 30 teams.  14 Big Ten teams and maybe 16 others than operate or actually compete with UW and that might be generous.  I hope we don't consider South dakota st or Wyoming on the same level.

Lol
How can't you?
Bono is a highly desirable coach with a band new state of the art wrestling facility. They also have a #1 ranked wrestler and a pipe line into top tear MN recruits. I also believe Flo recently listed them as one of the top 5 in attendance totals this season.
Sounds even.
I think most would consider Wyoming as a push.

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 07, 2018, 04:56:33 PM
But again there are 60 football teams operating on same par as UW.  There are 135 but they don't compete at same level even though they have same amount of scholarships

Wrestling has maybe 30 teams.  14 Big Ten teams and maybe 16 others than operate or actually compete with UW and that might be generous.  I hope we don't consider South dakota st or Wyoming on the same level.

Maryland and Michigan State wrestling fans thank you for considering them relevant.

Quote from: Numbers on March 07, 2018, 08:28:53 PM

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 07, 2018, 04:56:33 PM
But again there are 60 football teams operating on same par as UW.  There are 135 but they don't compete at same level even though they have same amount of scholarships

Wrestling has maybe 30 teams.  14 Big Ten teams and maybe 16 others than operate or actually compete with UW and that might be generous.  I hope we don't consider South dakota st or Wyoming on the same level.

Maryland and Michigan State wrestling fans thank you for considering them relevant.

+1000 ;D That was excellent

Quote from: bigoil on March 07, 2018, 02:33:44 PM

Quote from: Luke Louison on March 07, 2018, 02:25:57 PM

Quote from: FoldEmUp on March 07, 2018, 12:52:31 PM

Quote from: wrestle03 on March 07, 2018, 12:30:54 PM
Wow, you are a genius GradeTough.  If you had to just take in-state talent WI would be 10 to 14 in the Big10 every year.  But you think their going to recruit and get better guys than Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota............Ill stop with those schools.  Guess what?  It's never going to happen.

Really?  If you're talking recent history I'll agree with you...but certainly not historically true.

Here are the last five years according to Flo:  5 year cycle: #18, NR, #20, NR, NR

Historically?

2012:  #8 overall behind Iowa, Michigan, and Illinois.  Ahead of the rest.  Including this year what were the previous four years?  #8, #14, #UR, #12

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2012.html
https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031439-2012-recruiting-class-rankings/14106-2012-recruiting-class-rankings

2011:  #14 overall behind Nebraska, Ohio State, Penn St. but ranked right there with Minnesota.  Ahead of Iowa, Michigan and Illinois.

https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031438-2011-recruiting-class-rankings/14105-2011-recruiting-class-rankings

2008:  #4 overall behind Minnesota.  Ahead of everyone else.

http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_Rankings2008.html

These are the classes that Wisconsin got. These are not a reflection of the in-state talent the state of Wisconsin produced. In fact, nearly all the high quality recruits the University has brought in justify those rankings have been out-of-state talents.

J. Thielke #4 (WI)
T. Graff #6 (CO)
A. Howe #11 (IN)
R. Christensen #22 (WA)
H. Ritter #26 (MD)
I. Jordan #27 (OH)
E. Wick #29 (CA)
Z. Wick #32 (CA)
R. Taylor #35 (OH)
R. Robertson #39 (IL)
B. Jordan #48 (OH)
J. Jimenez #50 (IL)
T. Brandvold #61 (WI)
C. Medbury #62 (CO)
E. Stickley #92 (OH)

I realize these guys didn't wrestle at UW but were part of that Thielke class-
McCauley - #1 wasn't he?
Caldwell ranked?
One more kid I think I'm forgetting in that class that chose to wrestle elsewhere, Laux?

You are correct. Laux

Is buried on Iowa's bench. Good thing he followed Morningstar back to Iowa